2006 LSV - EFI - Engine Spins but will not Fire Off

I hate to start a new thread on this issue but I'm stuck....

I have an 06 LSV with 330 hours in it. This boat has been perfect since day one. After 8 hours on the lake Saturday, I was headed to the marina when I heard the alarm beep a few times. I checked all my gauges but everything looked normal. I was a little low on gas but not terribly low. I've been lower in the past. I kept going then a few moments later the engine went to acting stupid. It was running so rough it scared me, so I shut it down. Once I shut it down, I checked it over good then tried to restart it. It will spin over fine it just won't start up. I put 10 gallons of good fuel in it but no change. Since then I have pulled the fuel filter, pulled the flame arrestor, bled the fuel rail, re-primed the fuel pump, pulled the MAP sensor, jumped it out, put it back in with no luck. She'll spin over but no fire. I'm going to check the fuel pressure tomorrow with a gauge but I really don't think fuel pressure or flow is the problem. The pump primes every time and Fuel will spray from the rail bleed valve each time.

I had buddy use a spray bottle to spray gas directly into the throttle body today while turned it over. Still no ignition. So, I decided to check the ignition coil. I lifted the coil wire and attempted to arc it to a good ground while starting the engine. I never could get an arc at all. So then I put a meter on the coil wire and measured 12V DC with the key turned ON. Once I went to crank the voltage dropped to 11.3V. Thats just straight up battery voltage. I'm not sure about that....

- Does the computer have to see a certain amount of fuel pressure before it allows fire from the ignition coil?

- What should the fuel rail pressure be?

- Is there a better way to check the coil?

- Shouldn't it at least attempt to fire up with a shot of gas straight in the throttle body? I would think it would at least hit once or twice....

Basic sequence to the engine start.

When you first turn the key to the “on” position, the fuel pump will run for 2 seconds pressurizing the fuel rails
The fuel pressure after the pump runs, should be between 40-42 pounds of pressure

Initial Crank Action:

If you then rotate the key to the start position the engine will rotate.
Once the oil pressure has reached 4 PSI, the oil pressure switch will close allowing the fuel pump to run.

The distributor will send a string of pulses to the ECM (Engine Control Module) in response to the engine being rotated by the starter. These pulses continue as long as the engine turns (both starting and running) and if they are not present, the engine will not run.

ECM Reaction:

If the ECM sees oil pressure greater than 4 PSI and the reference pulses from the distributor, it will energize the injector drivers which will begin pulsing the injectors on for 4 ms (milliseconds) periods.

The ECM will also pull in the fuel pump relay in effect paralleling it electrically with the oil pressure switch.

Once the engine sees 400+ RPM it will goto Open mode and rev the engine to 1100 RPM then slowing down to normal idle 600-750rpm

In short, you sounds as if you have a Spark condition. Pull a plug and use it to determine if you have spark. Much easier to see then watching for a spark to jump to ground from a cable.

If you have spark then move on to the next in line.
If you don't have spark then investigate your distributor cap and connections.

Did you see my post about my key switch? Post a pic of the backside of your key switch and I'll tell you if it's the same and give you the part # from mine because I'm sure you could find one online a little cheaper.. Like mmandley is saying if the ECM is not getting 12volts when the engine is turning over it won't send the signal to the coil and injectors. Mine was falling to zero as soon as you turned the key to start which was not telling the ECM it was trying to start and not letting it fire. Mine also showed trouble code for the map sensor but it was just a false reading the technician said.. It runs fine now. It might be worth it it run it by a dealer that can plug it up to a computer. Would be nice if we were close by I would let you try parts from mine!


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Originally Posted by 23scuba

Did you see my post about my key switch? Post a pic of the backside of your key switch and I'll tell you if it's the same and give you the part # from mine because I'm sure you could find one online a little cheaper.. Like mmandley is saying if the ECM is not getting 12volts when the engine is turning over it won't send the signal to the coil and injectors. Mine was falling to zero as soon as you turned the key to start which was not telling the ECM it was trying to start and not letting it fire. Mine also showed trouble code for the map sensor but it was just a false reading the technician said.. It runs fine now. It might be worth it it run it by a dealer that can plug it up to a computer. Would be nice if we were close by I would let you try parts from mine!


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Could you post the part number for me of the switch. I think we have the same boat and might be the same issue. A $30 part is cheaper then $200 in gas to get to the dealer. :D

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Originally Posted by Rakkasan

Could you post the part number for me of the switch. I think we have the same boat and might be the same issue. A $30 part is cheaper then $200 in gas to get to the dealer. :D

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You don't need to have a new switch to test if the old one is bad, just jump the wires (hotwire) by removing all 3 from the switch, then you should be able to figure out by process of elimination (what I did when I replace my switch) which wire is the run wire and which is the start wire. If the colors are the same as my 06, then it should go like this:
red = power
purple = ignition/fuel pump
yellow w/red stripe = starter

So hold the red and purple wires together and you will hear the normal start up beeps, then touch the yellow wire to the group to turn the starter over.

When my switch died, I just replaced the key with a rocker switch and push button start.

They changed the switch to a Deutsch style plug in switch so you can't just pull the wires off and jump them. My 05 went out and I just touched the wires together to get home.. But the 08 is completely different.. I'm not sure which year you have but I think they went away from the three wire switch in 07 or so..


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Here Is the part # 95060-20.. I can actually smell my old switch at the plug in and it smells a little burnt, it looks fine and turned the motor over fine so I don't know how you would test it..


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pull a spark plug hook it up and ground it and turn the motor over and see if there is any spark at all. gota make sure there is spark or not before you go buying stuff. easy to do and free to diagnose. if you are spraying gas directly and and still no kick over you have a electrical issue plain and simple. Make sure have juice to the distributer and follow it back from there all the way to the ignition.

This all assumes you checked the lanyard.

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Originally Posted by kaneboats

This all assumes you checked the lanyard.

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Why is there even a lanyard on these boats? I'd like to see a poll on who actually uses it.

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Originally Posted by Rakkasan

Why is there even a lanyard on these boats? I'd like to see a poll on who actually uses it.

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My boat doesn't have one.

Maybe this is why they have them? hahahhaha

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dE-nfzcUiPk

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Originally Posted by Rakkasan

Why is there even a lanyard on these boats? I'd like to see a poll on who actually uses it.

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You have to ask. The same reason if you buy a lawnmower or chainsaw the instruction booklet has to be 100 pages long instead of 4 pages. Idiots and sue happy people.

Took me a minute, got busy with work...

Here is the latest for my problem. I checked firing with a timing light as I could not get a spark to ground. I had zero fire. I checked the primary and secondary coil resistance. That checked good. Turned out to be the ICM - ignition control module that is mounted on top of the coil. I bought a new one at my local parts house. She fired up on the first try.

Thanks guys.

LSM.

Congrats. Looks like we both fixed our problems.

This Forum has taught me so much about these boats.

Good deal! I guess all of us starting problem guys are back on the water!