Do you plan to try it with similar to stock ballast? Your mega wave setup may be negating the effects as you mentioned.
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Do you plan to try it with similar to stock ballast? Your mega wave setup may be negating the effects as you mentioned.
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Yes exactly. I have the factory 650 rears and 900 rear. Next time we go out I'm going to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by uniwarking
Yes I could have tried lots of things yesterday but honestly after not being on the water for 6 months and having 5 surfers I didn't have a lot of time to really test it out. I was hoping it would be as simple as load deploy and surf.
I will get more testing done and get this thing figured out.
Hey, I can understand that... I can't wait to get on the water! We had a lovely snow last night... might be a couple weeks... gives me time to install the Exile gear though!
I'm interested to see what everyone has to say on the Flow, this is on my list for next season.
Great info, maybe I can found out if its worth the money to buy the flow for my LSV or just sack it out
2013 Moomba LSV
I am in agreeance with mike that I am yet to be impressed, but I will say it hasn't had the immediate easy setup and usage that I was maybe inappropriately assuming it would.
Isn't the Flow suppose to work with the stock ballast, and keep the boat more level when surfing? I don't think it was designed for overweighted boats . Moomba's intention was to creat a better wave while keeping the boat at a SAFE running position bow down and not listing . I was told this by the north amarican rep at the show.
Yes exactly. Thats why I haven't said its a bad design or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by papou
On the same note very few people run Stock ballast in their boats for surfing or wake boarding.
On that note, even the dealers who are testing the Flow for potential buyers are saying the boats need more nose weight then factory provides.
I have surfed the Mojo with the factory 650s in the rear and the 500 in the nose and frankly it sucks. There is no push at all, and only someone below 150 on an over sized board can surf it. The pocket is so small its like like throwing a dime in a swimming pool and going to find it in the dark.
I understand the point the factory wants with the flow, and I will go all the way down to factory 650s to test it. Watching all the factory videos on the Mojo and the Flow, things aren't adding up.
When you see how much list is on the rear goofy side of the video First picture http://vimeo.com/82335262
That boat is sunk hard. Only way I can get the rear of my boar that deep surfing is with way more then factory ballast.
22 seconds in the clip they have the MOJO 2.5 kissing the water. That sucker is sacked, or its super nose high. Yet we all know from experience all Moomba's like nose weight when surfing.
54 seconds in they show the boat making the wave on the Regular side and you can clearly see the boat is not sunk as deep.
The water is several inches below the MOJO 2.5
59 seconds the Goofy wave is up and they are surfing a massive wave but guess what? The 2.5 is completely under the water again.
1:03 Regular wave the water is back up over the white strip and just under the 2.5 again.
1:18 Goofy wonderful shot down the side and the 2.5 is drowning in water.
My point is, and really trying to be professional here and give the Flow its due credit.
The factory can claim what ever they want as weights in a boat. They will never admit to adding more then the sticker says a boat can handle due to legal ramifications.
When you own that very boat and sink it like I do, and many others, you learn where the water flows on the side of the hull. I don't believe for a second that boat is running 650's and 500 hard tank at all.
Trust me I want it to surf like a monster with 650's in the rear, look at all the fuel I would save.
For me I'm looking at the flow as an option for quick change when my crew has riders that ride both sides... when i go out with only guys riding goofy which is what i ride i'll lean the boat over and surf like we have in the past... when we have both sides needed i'll load up normal and just have an extra 400lb bag that we will roll from side to side.... that being said this could all go out the window when i get out there for the first time and play around. With the Mondo i won't have the option of the bag size like Mike has so i'll be sticking to 750 rears, stock middle and IBS up front. I still have 2 400lb bags and and extra 1100lb triangle bag kicking around that i can play with if need be. Bottom line i can't wait!!!!!!
Here is a Video we did shoot of my buddy Curtis surfing goofy. We are running our normal weights,
1500 rear, 500 center 650 IBS and 450 in bow on seats.
Here I think the Flow is actually helping because the wave does seem longer and its cleaner then last year.
Like I said I haven't said the Flow is not working, I'm just trying to see how to maximize it and make my wave look like the factory video.
https://vimeo.com/92054107
I talked to Wakemakers yesterday and they were suggesting that the 900's would fit great in a Mondo .. With that being said.. its like a 20 dollar difference per bag from the 750s.Quote:
Originally Posted by saskyrider
sack it out for now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jwredmon101
OK thats good to know... my dealer said a 750 would pop the locker door open so makes me wonder? I would go with the 900's anyways for the price difference... just fill them as full as i can and go from there...
The 750s don't even pop the locker on the OBV so I can't imagine it would on the Mondo.
And I would agree on your decision to get the 900s -- fill as much of that locker as you can!!!
I put my 750's in the Mondo that I test drove last fall. They had plenty of room. I wish I would have brought my IBS and a pump with me also. The Mondo needed a lot more than the factory 500# hard tank.
Thx for the Info guys!!! Much appreciated
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Any more info on the Flow with the Mojo? We got out for the first time today and couldn't help but give surfing a try... despite the mid 50's degree water (brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!).
I just have the stock setup. We ran with the surf side rear full, other side ~50% and center tank full and about 5 people on the surf side. I tried 10.5 ~ 11 mph. My brother-in-law is regular, he was up on the first time and next 5 or so but couldn't ever go ropeless... wave was pretty clean but not massive and it felt very close to the boat. I was up next and I'm goofy so we swapped things up... I was up first time but we could never get the wave clean.
I'm sure with some practice and a little tweaking we'll get things better... but I'm not sure what to do next. The flow seems like the "easy" solution but I'm not wanting to drop the $$$ on that... especially with the not so positive reviews. There are very young children in my boat so leaning it and sinking it like crazy are not really appealing either.
Any thoughts?
I hate to say it but some of it does come down to skill. I went out last week (in 55 degree water as well). I was behind my buddy's Tige 21v. We had one driver and two passengers when I was surfing. My friend that owns the boat FORGOT to bring the bags. So there we were with a Tige using 2 normal sized people as the ONLY ballast. And guess what, I was able to freeride. Yeah, it took some effort and there were a couple times I lost the wave. But I was able to freeride a 21' v-drive with no ballast because I'd worked all last season surfing.Quote:
Originally Posted by uniwarking
That said, the right wave makes it a LOT easier and a LOT more fun. But I found out someone that has a little experience can make it happen even without ballast. (and I'm really not that great of a surfer--only been doing it 1 summer).
Regardless, I'm staying tuned for FLOW developments and am anxious to get out behind a boat that has it. :-)
Ha, quite true trayson. I certainly didn't expect to free ride or pull of any 360's on the first time out... I just know my wave (especially on the goofy side) was terrible compared to what I've seen in videos and pictures.
I suppose we'll get the wave... And surfing figured out with a little time. I'm just trying to figure out my best options down the road... Flow or sac upgrades. I would prefer the Flow because it is easier and appears to be safer.
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I think that stock in a 13 Mojo was only the 400s in the rear so if you want a good surf wave then you need to upgrade your bags to at least 750s. Regardless of using the flow or not, you need more weight than the stock setup for the Mojo since it's such a deep boat. Upgrade your bags, try surfing it, then decide if you want the flow or not.
I thought the hulls on the Supras and Moombas were the same shape for the various models, why would the flow not work on a Supra?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius22
I think they're actually 650 in the rear with a 500 center tank. G3 is standard on the '13 Mojo if I remember correct... I may be wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius22
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I am not aware of any Moombas that share a Supra hull, especially the newer models.Quote:
Originally Posted by hiflyr
Not sure if this has been posted... nice write up at Dealer Connect:
Go with the FLOW! - Optimizing your boat set-up
April 17, 2014
The Moomba Flow surf system’s simple & durable design allows the user to quickly change from wakeboarding to surfing without adjusting little or no ballast adjustment. It also allows for easy changeovers between surfing on the port, or starboard side of the boat. Here are a couple of quick tips that will help you get your boat set up properly with the Flow surf system:
1) The flow system should be deployed on the opposite side that you plan to surf. Deploy that tab only. The tab on the side you are surfing should not be engaged (full UP position).
2) Start with the boat evenly weighted side-to-side. Flow is designed to allow a quick change-over from wakeboarding to surfing, and from starboard to port side surfing. Weighting each side evenly makes the system versatile, and convenient. Putting too much weight on the side you are surfing can negate the effect of the Flow system and cause the wakes to wash out.
3) The boat should be weighted 60/40 back to front. If you put all of the weight in the back of the boat, the Flow system will not work well. One way to check this is to check the level of the swim platform in the water before surfing. The platform should be right at water level or just slightly below, but still level. If the platform is deep under water or at a downward angle, then there is likely too much weight in the rear of the boat (or too little weight in the front).
4) Experiment with the 3 settings on Flow to optimize wakes for the load you are pushing and the skill of the surfer. If you are using stock ballast, beginners will probably do best on the first (highest) setting, as it is a steeper wake with the best “push”. This wake is not as long, but Beginners can easily stay in this wake without much movement, because it is steep. Most riders will enjoy the middle setting, as it is a nice combination between a longer wake and a solid push. The last, or lowest setting creates a longer wake that some advanced surfers will enjoy, because they have more room to do advanced tricks, but still have room to "pump" back in, if they fall out of the sweet-spot.
5) The wakeplate should start at 50% when surfing in any of these positions. You can experiment slightly with the plate to get the cleanest wave possible. Depending on the weight in the boat and the specific model, sometimes you may even have to run the plate all up or all down to get best wave.
As most experienced surfers have discovered, there is no perfect setting in wakesurfing. Ballast, people, depth of the water,wind, and even the amount of gas on board can change the size/shape of the wake. Be Flexible, and try new things when conditions change:
Here are a few extra customizing tips that you can experiment with:
1) If you want to tweak the wakes a little bit, shift one extra person to the side you are surfing.
2) If you have a heavy load of people, or extra ballast on board, you may need to use the lower settings on Flow. The higher settings may cause spray on the face of the wake if you have the boat heavily weighted.
3) If a quick changeover (wakeboard to surf, or side to side) is not a priority, you can always go back to leaning the boat on rear corner, by loading it up heavier. All of the Moomba models are capable surf boats, with, or without a Surf enhancement device. The Flow system is designed to add convenience and quick change-overs.
On-water Demos are proven to be the best way to complete a sale with customers who are interested in an inboard boat. The best thing you can do to ensure good customer demos is to get out and test the boat yourself before you get your customers out. Discover what works best, and then you will be knowledgeable and credible with your customers.
Go with the Flow!
http://www.scdealerconnect.com/product-knowledge.php
Good advice and frankly the better write up I have seen.
I am headed out today and will try some of this. IDK about the swim deck being level with the water. i guess I'm going to flip that % and go 60 front 40 rear LOL.
Our swim deck sits pretty level with the water when i have NO weight in it.
When I filled all the ballast up a couple weeks ago the deck was more then a foot underwater hahaha.
I read that to mean parallel, not even with the surface. Be interested to see how it goes for you today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by uniwarking
I hope you're right, but I read it the same way that Mike did. I think the key question is what do they consider "deep" in that original statement, because even my OBV with the stock ballast (GIII) has the platform FULLY underwater.Quote:
Originally Posted by bergermaister
I will post up later today my findings yesterday. Teaser alert, I made it work with positive results but still had to tweak it.
I'm looking forward to your notes... I'm trying to see if I should hold out for the flow, upgrade sacks or plan to do both.
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Making a new thread to go with this one, this one is pretty long and kinda hard to follow unless you read the bulk of it.
I can tell you right now that with the Mojo, you're going to want more weight than the stock setup if you want to maximize the wave. Regardless of having Flow or not.
Your absolutely correct, You have to get that boat to Lean a bit. Stock only looks nice from the cabin, not when your in the wave.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius22
This is the new thread I started, pics and Video included.
https://forum.moomba.com/showthread....880#post240880
Yeah, I surfed a mojo today with flow and was under-whelmed. Yep, it had stock ballast and we added the wraparound bow sack under the seats (looks like per wakemakers that's 600 to 700 pounds). The flow equipped boat was "okay" but lacking in the push department. We tried each of the settings and ended up riding at the middle setting. I mean, it was enough to freeride, but not enough to really have fun slashing up the wake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius22
The stock bags in the rear lockers looked pretty small. Like you could Easily double them and put a 2nd set in on top of the first.
I am sure that you could get it dialed in with the right bags. And I'm sure the flow helps. I could tell that the flow was helping the pocket, almost flowing the darkside wave under the surfside to make the surfside a little bigger.
After riding the flow equipped mojo, I rode a Malibu VLX with upgraded ballast on top of the factory + wedge + surfgate and it blew the poor little mojo out of the water. Yes, it's not a fair comparison, as the Malibu is a TON more expensive and a bigger boat. But DAMN, that Malibu had push for days and the mojo not even close. I'd imagine if you could add the right ballast that the mojo would perform enough to make you a lot happier, but it needs more than stock and a bow sack to have enough push to make me satisfied...
Maybe you should ride the Mojo with upgraded ballast like you did with the Malibu and THEN make a comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by trayson
Quote:
Originally Posted by trayson
If the mojo woulda been equipped with upgraded ballast, I'd be happy to share my insights.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius22
But I can only comment on what I have done and have access to. This was at a Demo day, so it's not like I could snap my fingers and make the boat have upgraded ballast.
I also rode a $180k G25 Coastal Edition today too, but that's not relevant. I guess the Malibu isn't really relevant either except it showed that there was a lot higher levels of performance for the mojo to aspire to. If I'd never ridden better, I'd never know how high to set the bar.
Hell, the mojo is nicer than my Sunsport. i guess I just confirmed what you said that stock ballast (plus a bow sack) isn't enough to be satisfied.
Didn't mean to offend. I can only speak to what I experienced.
tray. sure that wasn't a 'bu lsv that you rode? mojo is longer by a foot and within 1" of same beam as vlx. price should have nothing to do with how well the boat surfs/boards or rides. the 'bu is a much more feature-laden boat than the mojo but that has nothing to do with actual hull shape.
too bad that for a demo days, there are boats at almost stock ballast and one "slammed". for the uninformed or new consumer, that's not really doing skiers products justice, but as a dealer, bet it makes it much easier to sell the more spensive boat...
Just got back from a demo day where we rode in the 2 boats we had narrowed it down to the Mojo 2.5 and the Axis A22...I was completely UNDERWHELMED with the Moomba and the "flow system" My old 06 LSV with fat guys made about the same wake for surfing, albeit with more work to get it to look like that, but with that said it was OK.
The Axis on the other hand was insane. Within 5 minutes of being in the Axis A22 my wife said, "we are not buying a Moomba." Sorry guys, I loved our LSV, but we are buying an Axis A22 because of the side by side comparison. Surf Gate is the real deal and the rest of the companies are playing catch up right now.
THIS IS MY OPINION...and I am a huge Moomba fan, but for the money, I am now a huge Axis fan. Suppose I have to turn in my user name and password on Tuesday when I order my new Axis????
Honestly I am not sure which 'Bu it was. I get the models confused as I've never really done much research on them. My goal for the day was to ride the various surf systems. Sadly we were out on the G25 for so long that I didn't get the chance to ride the Supra SWELL. I really wanted to do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by sandm
As far as the dealership (Active water sports) they have two locations in the Portland area. Their one location does Malibu/Axis and the other does Nautique/Supra/Moomba. As far as what boats were available and how they were setup, they only had 2 moombas there and they didn't get a ton of attention because people were wanting to ride the most expensive stuff that they really couldn't afford anyway. Ya know, joyriding for free! They had a G21, G23, and G25 so of course those were well used. They only had 1 Supra with the flow. 2 Moombas and they had a fleet of Malibus and 1 Axis. So as far as what Malibu I choose to ride, it was basically I wannna rock something with a surf gate. (which was admittedly impressive. It was cool to see how quick they could changeover from regular to goofy while riding.) Same of course with the NSS. Again, I'm sure the flow is legit when dialed in...
Were you at the same demo days as me? with Active Water Sports?Quote:
Originally Posted by Glanzer77
Trayson I'm sorry the Flow let you down, what really let you down was AWS.
I asked them a couple times if they wanted my Mojo there with a Flow thats really weighted. They never said yes so we made other plans on Saturday.
Mojo with the Flow will throw a huge wave with so much push you won't be able to get off your back leg, but your right its not stock at all.
I can't speak on AWS and how they promote the products they sell, I can only say I don't agree with it.
When you get the time your always welcome to come surf our Mojo, I will show you what that boat can do in the hands of someone who knows how to dial it in.
Well said Mike.
My family was in Minneapolis on Lake Minnekota.