New for 2019

The Helix and Max continue to use the 480 color screen that all the other models used in 2018. The great news there is the 2019 software WILL work backwards compatible on the 2018 and 2017 models. It also has the ballast sensor technology in it. The 480 does NOT have the same user interface as the 7 inch screen, but we are trying to keep the technology moving forward so if you want, you can eventually purchase ballast sensors and update software and get a 2018 model to have the AutoWake 3 technology.

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That is great news. I will definitely be upgrading to the new ballast sensors and new software. I have a 2018 Craz. Will any of the Craz Pro features be available to upgrade on the regular Craz? I.E. the flow 3.0 plates? Great job on the new features and the new Makai. You guys are knocking it out of the park!



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The craz pro will have rear compartment tray. That will be a much needed upgrade for past year models.

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I.E. the flow 3.0 plates?

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I am going to highly doubt it since you could not do it on the 17 Mojo pro.

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Because, I don’t care what anyone says, 4000# is not enough to crush it in a 24.5 boat. I have one—and we rock 5300#. She delivers at that point!

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I have seen many people already talk about the ballast, or what they see as lack thereof. If you are buying a big boat like this, I would hope that you would be inviting out a lot of people. Extra ballast is for times when your crew isn't very big to get the optimal wake and wave. 4000 pounds is a lot of weight!! Add in, 8 or 10 adults plus fuel, coolers and other gear, you are easily around 6000 pounds of weight.

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Originally Posted by KnoxMojo

I have seen many people already talk about the ballast, or what they see as lack thereof. If you are buying a big boat like this, I would hope that you would be inviting out a lot of people. Extra ballast is for times when your crew isn't very big to get the optimal wake and wave. 4000 pounds is a lot of weight!! Add in, 8 or 10 adults plus fuel, coolers and other gear, you are easily around 6000 pounds of weight.

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I may just be unpopular, but I hardly ever have more than 5-6 on my boat. So I always have to run max ballast. Maybe a smaller boat would be more practical, but I love the space a big boat gives. And the wave is always gonna be bigger when you add the weight.


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Padge, that's why I mentioned about the extra weight for the times when your crew is light. I have 3400 pounds in my Mojo plus another 400 in steel shot, a 400 sack and a couple of the 150 pound fat bricks. I only use the extra water ballast when we have 3 or 4 people out, like last night. If I have 7 or 8 people out, I don't need to simulate the extra body weight.

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Originally Posted by KnoxMojo

I have seen many people already talk about the ballast, or what they see as lack thereof. If you are buying a big boat like this, I would hope that you would be inviting out a lot of people. Extra ballast is for times when your crew isn't very big to get the optimal wake and wave. 4000 pounds is a lot of weight!! Add in, 8 or 10 adults plus fuel, coolers and other gear, you are easily around 6000 pounds of weight.

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Here’s the scenario you’re not thinking about: I have a large boat because I have 4 kids under 14, and do lots of pleasure boating on a VERY ROUGH lake aside from surfing. The boat lives on a hoist—so towing/storing is not a concern. If I could have a 26’ surf boat (E.g. afford one) I would have one. A boat is never too big on the water IMHO. Anyway, Lots of times, our intense surf sessions are with 3-4 men at 6:30 am. We basically never surf with a full boat.

I don’t really count people as ballast when I am talking about a boat or planning a wave—that’s just bonus. I would not forego loading ballast until my motor starts to struggle pulling the weight. Or the boat sinks?

4000# is great, but nowhere near what this hull can do. My suspicion. It’s really not the lack of factory ballast—this one is set up nicely—it would be the inability to elegantly add what you might want. That’s where any questions I have might be centered. Because it’s GONNA get added.

I think the Supra guys answered it nicely anyway. Side bags could be bigger if you wanted—they said.


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Originally Posted by padge

I may just be unpopular, but I hardly ever have more than 5-6 on my boat. So I always have to run max ballast. Maybe a smaller boat would be more practical, but I love the space a big boat gives. And the wave is always gonna be bigger when you add the weight.


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^^^this exactly. Love the big boat for every reason. And they need the weight to deliver. Maybe 4000# is a lot in a 22’ boat, but not 25. On that pair, the 22’ is gonna surf better. They need to be sunk to give up the goods!


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Originally Posted by BrettLee3232

For some odd reason I thought my Mondo and trailer was like 6300lbs [emoji23]


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Our Mojo on the trailer loaded with everything we normally carry and full tank of full is 6900 lbs

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Originally Posted by KnoxMojo

I am going to highly doubt it since you could not do it on the 17 Mojo pro.

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That is a bummer. I understand they try to keep that stuff “Special” for the Pro version, but they didn’t offer the Craz Pro in 18. I would have purchased one had it been offered. Only reason I didn’t go with the Mojo was I still like to slalom ski also. I had already made up my mind 22’ was the best compromise for space and still being able to somewhat flatten a Wake when I want to. Hindsight, I probably should have just went with the Mojo Pro.


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Dakota, you reinforced my thoughts on the added ballast. I had that scenario in mind in why I said extra weight is needed. Light crew is kids, not many people, whatever the case may be. They have basically put Enzos in a boat from the factory and people still are not happy, that's my point. I have been on 24' boats with enzos and nose weight, add in a few people, and they throw sick wakes and waves. I think you guys missed my point. Its all good. I would add weight to the boat as well, since our crews are smaller and smaller these days since the baby, but 4000 pounds is significant.

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Originally Posted by KnoxMojo

Dakota, you reinforced my thoughts on the added ballast. I had that scenario in mind in why I said extra weight is needed. Light crew is kids, not many people, whatever the case may be. They have basically put Enzos in a boat from the factory and people still are not happy, that's my point. I have been on 24' boats with enzos and nose weight, add in a few people, and they throw sick wakes and waves. I think you guys missed my point. Its all good. I would add weight to the boat as well, since our crews are smaller and smaller these days since the baby, but 4000 pounds is significant.

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No I agree 100%. 4000# is a bunch for stock. I think we were just saying, to use it at it’s potential would take more weight because of the size of the boat


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I agree. I asked this very question to a Supra engineer. He said people can add weight over stock if they run light crews, but they try to put out optimal ballast for the boat and the weight capacity that it is capable of holding if there was a butt in every seat. They have to account for such things.

Understand 100%


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So the makai max displacement is 5200+4000+2500=11700

That is impressive considering an SA is
5450+3500+2400=11350

And SE is
5500+3500+2800= 11800


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Originally Posted by larry_arizona

So the makai max displacement is 5200+4000+2500=11700

That is impressive considering an SA is
5450+3500+2400=11350

And SE is
5500+3500+2800= 11800


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You’re comparing 2019 moomba numbers to 2018 Supra numbers..stay tuned


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Originally Posted by KnoxMojo

Dakota, you reinforced my thoughts on the added ballast. I had that scenario in mind in why I said extra weight is needed. Light crew is kids, not many people, whatever the case may be. They have basically put Enzos in a boat from the factory and people still are not happy, that's my point. I have been on 24' boats with enzos and nose weight, add in a few people, and they throw sick wakes and waves. I think you guys missed my point. Its all good. I would add weight to the boat as well, since our crews are smaller and smaller these days since the baby, but 4000 pounds is significant.

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I think really the point I am focused on is that the rear lockers aren’t able to add more weight elegantly with the “tray” arrangement.

Take a Supra SL, with 3500 factory subfloor. It still has a true locker to which you could easily add PnP bags. Makai cannot.

That’s all I was really paying attention to.

The only company that comes close to loading boats out the door is Centurion it seems.


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Originally Posted by ATS0921

Wouldn't they have to drop the occupancy rating if they added more stock ballast? I always assumed there was a balancing act between stock ballast and occupancy rating?

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Except centurion doesn’t seem to have that issue?


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Originally Posted by dakota4ce

I think really the point I am focused on is that the rear lockers aren’t able to add more weight elegantly with the “tray” arrangement.

Take a Supra SL, with 3500 factory subfloor. It still has a true locker to which you could easily add PnP bags. Makai cannot.

That’s all I was really paying attention to.

The only company that comes close to loading boats out the door is Centurion it seems.


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Furthermore, possibly in contrast to what you suggest—even if I have 6-7-8 adults in the boat, I FILL the ballast. The only thing that might slow me down is getting to a point where the motor can’t hang in there. But thus far, that hasn’t happened. I would not fill partial ballast when I have a big crew, unless I had to.

If I had a 575, I NEVER would have to I bet. That would be sweet! Like the wake 9 boat—they fill that hawg no matter how big the crew, don’t they?

Maybe that clarifies my thoughts some?

Sounds like you might do that?


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For those Supra owners ... few things I was told today (and saw some pics)

SL will get a walkthrough pad and tray underneath

SE redesigned with subfloor ballast as everyone can imagine

Don’t know any specifics about SA or SR

All Supras will get 2 touch screens one center and one to lower right phone holder moves to the left ... looks a lot like the Malibu setup. Wasn’t sold on that design ... looked like it was big and just in your way. After having a 2017 Malibu LSV and now the 2018 SL the smaller screen works perfect and gives access to everything when needed (if you have the steering controls - otherwise it may not be as easy but who didn’t order that???) ... and to clarify the 9” screen is the same as nautique is using including software I think?!

No more remote on the left side center section to adjust music - new touch screen near the glove box to allow peeps to control sound, heater and hopefully nothing else [emoji12]

Walkthrough as said earlier on the SL no hull changes. New dark vinyl staying cool they say ... new color option ... wine red or similar ... wanted that this year but Skiers choice refused to do custom color ... grrrr ....

For those interested in plug and play ... I’m opening another thread for the SL ... can’t and won’t do lead as my boat is on a lift so will post pics there to show how I did it ...

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Originally Posted by monkey_butt

For those Supra owners ... few things I was told today (and saw some pics)

SL will get a walkthrough pad and tray underneath

SE redesigned with subfloor ballast as everyone can imagine

Don’t know any specifics about SA or SR

All Supras will get 2 touch screens one center and one to lower right phone holder moves to the left ... looks a lot like the Malibu setup. Wasn’t sold on that design ... looked like it was big and just in your way. After having a 2017 Malibu LSV and now the 2018 SL the smaller screen works perfect and gives access to everything when needed (if you have the steering controls - otherwise it may not be as easy but who didn’t order that???) ... and to clarify the 9” screen is the same as nautique is using including software I think?!

No more remote on the left side center section to adjust music - new touch screen near the glove box to allow peeps to control sound, heater and hopefully nothing else [emoji12]

Walkthrough as said earlier on the SL no hull changes. New dark vinyl staying cool they say ... new color option ... wine red or similar ... wanted that this year but Skiers choice refused to do custom color ... grrrr ....

For those interested in plug and play ... I’m opening another thread for the SL ... can’t and won’t do lead as my boat is on a lift so will post pics there to show how I did it ...

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So where are you adding your piggy back ballast bags, right now I have 2 400 lb bags under each of the rear seats?
It seemed like it was enough, until we put a 750 on the floor as well in the middle of the boat, the wave was massive, it was so long at 12 mph

Yep I’m happy with my 18. I don’t like walkthroughs. And have you guys used nautique screens? In my opinion, it just gets in the way of what you’re trying to do. Go ride!

Have you heard of any new functionalities? Anything the screens will unlock?

And by the location my lead bags go, I bet two bags at 500 each put in the v drive locker would be sweet. I’m gonna keep my storage and add lead if necesssary. The boat is just so dang good with only 400 lbs. sips gas too. My 18 SL has exceeded all my expectations.

And forgot to mention - 440 upgrade now is no longer just the ECM difference ... not sure if this means that they are putting the so-called 460 in which you can order in an MB ... but was told that the engine would now have different cam shafts and whatever else to produce the additional torque

And pricing will go up 6% so an SL will come in at 130k base

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Originally Posted by Ryann

Yep I’m happy with my 18. I don’t like walkthroughs. And have you guys used nautique screens? In my opinion, it just gets in the way of what you’re trying to do. Go ride!

Have you heard of any new functionalities? Anything the screens will unlock?

And by the location my lead bags go, I bet two bags at 500 each put in the v drive locker would be sweet. I’m gonna keep my storage and add lead if necesssary. The boat is just so dang good with only 400 lbs. sips gas too. My 18 SL has exceeded all my expectations.

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What motor do you have?


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The ballast bags have the sensors like the moomba as well in 19

Will the new software and ballast sensors be compatible with the 2018 supra screens?

Unlikely except they provide new software and harness - the pumps are time driven so you would need to hook wiring from sensors into module underneath the dash and update software

And PNP write up is posted for the SL ... FYI

It would be really upsetting if they made to software backwards compatible for moomba but not supra. Maybe Goose could chime in?

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Originally Posted by shockthis

It would be really upsetting if they made to software backwards compatible for moomba but not supra. Maybe Goose could chime in?

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That’s not what I said or meant. Skiers choice did make the upgrades to autowake 2.0 available for everybody but said that you need additional sensors and wiring harnesses. So the software update is only half of the cake - I would assume that both are eventually available but for the price of 3 sensors, harness and labor ... well the boat ain’t producing a better wake so it’s a convenience thing and you will be spending some cash to get there ... so I for sure wouldn’t do it ... too much work for one (opening floor panels to get to bags putting a tube/sensor in and plum that into bag to measure fill level ... yadda yadda yadda ... and if you have plug and play then they would be incorrect like on the Malibu’s 2017 and older because they only measure factory ballast

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Originally Posted by 13mobiusLSV

You’re comparing 2019 moomba numbers to 2018 Supra numbers..stay tuned


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So true…..

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Originally Posted by monkey_butt

For those Supra owners ... few things I was told today (and saw some pics)

SL will get a walkthrough pad and tray underneath

SE redesigned with subfloor ballast as everyone can imagine

Don’t know any specifics about SA or SR

All Supras will get 2 touch screens one center and one to lower right phone holder moves to the left ... looks a lot like the Malibu setup. Wasn’t sold on that design ... looked like it was big and just in your way. After having a 2017 Malibu LSV and now the 2018 SL the smaller screen works perfect and gives access to everything when needed (if you have the steering controls - otherwise it may not be as easy but who didn’t order that???) ... and to clarify the 9” screen is the same as nautique is using including software I think?!

No more remote on the left side center section to adjust music - new touch screen near the glove box to allow peeps to control sound, heater and hopefully nothing else [emoji12]

Walkthrough as said earlier on the SL no hull changes. New dark vinyl staying cool they say ... new color option ... wine red or similar ... wanted that this year but Skiers choice refused to do custom color ... grrrr ....

For those interested in plug and play ... I’m opening another thread for the SL ... can’t and won’t do lead as my boat is on a lift so will post pics there to show how I did it ...

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Your dealer is brave to hand out all that info!!! With that said, I hope its true.

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Originally Posted by monkey_butt

That’s not what I said or meant. Skiers choice did make the upgrades to autowake 2.0 available for everybody but said that you need additional sensors and wiring harnesses. So the software update is only half of the cake - I would assume that both are eventually available but for the price of 3 sensors, harness and labor ... well the boat ain’t producing a better wake so it’s a convenience thing and you will be spending some cash to get there ... so I for sure wouldn’t do it ... too much work for one (opening floor panels to get to bags putting a tube/sensor in and plum that into bag to measure fill level ... yadda yadda yadda ... and if you have plug and play then they would be incorrect like on the Malibu’s 2017 and older because they only measure factory ballast

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I cant comment on anything Supra at this time, but i can tell you the moomba sensors are NOT on the bag or tank. They are standalone sensors that measure the water level regardless what bag you use. So as long as you get a bag that has the correct fittings, you can add a bag and it will turn off when full. I will try and elaborate more later but this is an industry first and should fix a problem the entire industry has been facing of inaccurate ballast timers, gauges, etc. AND we are working with wakemakers so they can make custom bags with correct fittings that will hopefully be available later this year.

Also, on the debate about ballast and capacity, dont forget we have draft sensor to also measure that accurately. I dont understand the idea that passengers should not be considered toward displacement (???), but at anytime you should be able to look at dash and see what your displacement is and that will directly relate to how big the wake or wave will be. We also changed the Moomba amplitude bar so it is now in 3 sections. If you want a decent size wave, you need to be in the upper displacement zone. On the Makai, you need about 5,000lb displacement to get there. So full ballast and 5 adults, or 2 adults and larger bags, or 2 adults and some lead will all give you the same result. Anything more that 5,000lb starts to get really awesome.

Hope that helps.

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Looks like the Supra info may hit as early as this week according to a post I saw from Drew last week. Should be a fun week.

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Originally Posted by goose

I cant comment on anything Supra at this time, but i can tell you the moomba sensors are NOT on the bag or tank. They are standalone sensors that measure the water level regardless what bag you use. So as long as you get a bag that has the correct fittings, you can add a bag and it will turn off when full. I will try and elaborate more later but this is an industry first and should fix a problem the entire industry has been facing of inaccurate ballast timers, gauges, etc. AND we are working with wakemakers so they can make custom bags with correct fittings that will hopefully be available later this year.

Also, on the debate about ballast and capacity, dont forget we have draft sensor to also measure that accurately. I dont understand the idea that passengers should not be considered toward displacement (???), but at anytime you should be able to look at dash and see what your displacement is and that will directly relate to how big the wake or wave will be. We also changed the Moomba amplitude bar so it is now in 3 sections. If you want a decent size wave, you need to be in the upper displacement zone. On the Makai, you need about 5,000lb displacement to get there. So full ballast and 5 adults, or 2 adults and larger bags, or 2 adults and some lead will all give you the same result. Anything more that 5,000lb starts to get really awesome.

Hope that helps.

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I don’t think anyone is suggesting that you not count passengers toward displacement, rather we’re just saying it doesn’t matter how many passengers we have we’re still going to fill our bags as long as our boats will pull them.


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Really no place to write this post, but I just spent some time on an SL 550 in 11 feet of water with about 1200 pounds of passenger weight and 1000 pounds of lead.

Ummmmmmmm....YEAH. Holy balls. Incredible!

I truly wonder if a 450 could move that load. Simply because there are more 450s available out there than 550s at a nice price.


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I think the point is simple, it’s a hulls design that determines max ballast for a given boat.

It’s up to the manufacturer to determine how much of that is adjustable ballast, occupancy load and added content and features.

If the hull doesn’t change you can’t keep adding adjustable ballast without reducing occupancy load rating.

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Originally Posted by dakota4ce

Really no place to write this post, but I just spent some time on an SL 550 in 11 feet of water with about 1200 pounds of passenger weight and 1000 pounds of lead.

Ummmmmmmm....YEAH. Holy balls. Incredible!

I truly wonder if a 450 could move that load. Simply because there are more 450s available out there than 550s at a nice price.


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I believe you were at 11300# and if I read what goose said about a fully loaded out makai at 11700# with a 400 and a wake prop pulling it fine.

I think a 400 would handle your 11300#, the difference in the 400 and 450 is 27ft lbs of torque.


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Originally Posted by larry_arizona

I think the point is simple, it’s a hulls design that determines max ballast for a given boat.

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And quite often people run way over that particular number without consequences.

But I thought someone said earlier that adjustable ballast is not counted toward maximum capacity?


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Originally Posted by dakota4ce

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that you not count passengers toward displacement, rather we’re just saying it doesn’t matter how many passengers we have we’re still going to fill our bags as long as our boats will pull them.


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That makes sense and we know that and expect it. Maybe thats another value to the amplitude bar. I've always thought of it as a way to set expectations on wave or wake size. But it can also set expectations on how much load you will have on your specific engine and prop. As you said, all boats eventually have a max displacement that the engine can push. With amplitude bar it makes that visible before you attempt to accelerate.

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