oxymoron: lower priced wake boats and new model wake boats
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oxymoron: lower priced wake boats and new model wake boats
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So I’d love to upgrade my Max with the new sun pad engine cushion. Is this possible?
Increases to base msrp from 2019 to 2020. Not as bad as I'd expected.
Helix $940 - 1.6%
Max - $1600 - 2.5%
Makai - $2700 - 3.3%
Craz - $1500 - 2.2%
Mojo - $1300 - 1.8%
Interested in this as well!Quote:
Originally Posted by haknslash
Considering inflation is at appx 1.6-1.9%, it’s even more impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoebox
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In addition to the low MSRP change, several options $$$ for 2019 were added Standard in 2020. Bow Filler Cushion, Seat Back rest behind driver seat, rear Walk-across Non skid step and a few small other items.
Wow that’s nice standard equipment. Great job SC and looks like the 2020 lineup will be real attractive!Quote:
Originally Posted by RickT
Kind of liking the new boat. Kind of sad they dumped the Mondo for the helix. Should have dumped the helix.
Can we confirm now that the 400 gets the 1.76 to 1 gear ratio for 2020? Thinking about a Makai and would feel better about the 400 if it had it.
Yes, all 400s in 2020 have the 1.76
When can we expect to get some info on the 2020 Supras and the redesigned SA? My 18 SL550 is itching to be traded in on a 2020:-D
[emoji1303]Quote:
Originally Posted by RickT
This!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospersigman
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Always good to hear for either Moomba or Supra.Quote:
Originally Posted by RickT
Heard that rumor, but nice to confirm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius22
The newer SE was announced at the last week of July in 2018.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prospersigman
The SL was announced at in mid-Aug in 2017. Teasers were a few weeks earlier.
Anyone know the Ballast setup in a 2020 Max? it says 4000 lbs and curious on where the bags are located with weight?
Per Drew Tinker on FB there are bags and a removable floor covering under the side seats.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcredible
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Is there some form of forum on FB?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boonejeepin
Not a forum but there is the official Supra and Moomba owners group which is what we all use.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcredible
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1786...729/?ref=share
Can you explain the performance advantage of the 400 with the 1.76 versus the 1.5? Bigger prop? Lower surf RPM’s? Any loss in top speed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius22
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Dakota explained this to me on Facebook once. The jump from 1.5 to 1.76 is a much more efficient way to gear down compared to just using a lower pitch for surfing. So then you get surf efficiency and can keep some of your top speed too.
I do understand the theory behind the 1.76, but I am looking for tech data from either Drew, Rick or Goose versus Facebook.Quote:
Originally Posted by schwan
More tow capacity to get full ballast full crew on plane, more top speed, less fuel used?
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I'll second that, I would love to hear from someone really in the know about how it will truly change performance.
I don’t think they’re doing it for fun fellas. Having owned two boats with similar motors but the two trannies, the driving experience is better. Larger propeller, more pitch, better efficiency on the water. But if you really want technical data I suppose those guys could go ahead and share all of that with you, or they could make the decision on your behalf and offer it in the product line. But I guarantee you making the change wasn’t cheap, so they obviously had a great reason to do it.
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No argument that the 1.76 is an upgrade, just want to know what it offers and by how much over the 1.5.
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This is Jason with Germaine Marine. Hard data would
Be best served getting directly from Indmar. The v drive reduction change is equivalent to a significant increase in to the water torque that is not power band dependent. Its a significant bump across the entire range. What makes it so good is that it allows you to squeeze pitch/diameter numbers that were otherwise unattainable. The net gain is having a significant increase in low end without the big loss of cruise speed. The new drive train for example is able to spin a 15x18 with ease. The new gear reduction and big pitch allows the boat to have big bottom without the net loss of top end speed attributed when having to prop down because of being short on torque with big weight.
Benefits...
-wider usable power range
-lower surf RPM
-higher cruise speeds
-more prop options
-happier boating :)
Yeah, what he said. I am not sure exactly what type of "technical data" you want because I can spit a bunch of numbers out and truth is you can't probably prove them right or wrong. But what I can tell you is we spent a LOT of time driving the boats and you need to do the same. The theory behind the transmission is we were wanting to spin a bigger prop. Back in the day when boats were not as heavy and the engines did not have as much power, there was no need to spin a larger diameter prop. The boat didn't need it and the engine couldn't handle it. But now with the boats we have, the engine CAN handle it AND the boats need it. If you notice, that has definitely been the trend and we were not the only people to play with transmission ratios. The problem is everything is a tradeoff in propulsion. What we have found is the 1.76 is the best tradeoff we can see right now. With a 2.0 or larger ratio, you can run a larger prop. BUT, to get clearance under the boat you have to change the strut angle or something different. When you do that, you lose efficiency. Also, going to that requires a larger shaft, different shaft materials and other changes. If not done correctly, all that can be bad. Not trying to start any fights, but some people have had issues with that. By using the 1.76 ratio, we can turn a 15.5-16 inch prop using the same strut angles and still have proper clearance. AND with some testing, we now have 3 pitch options to go with the larger prop. For max low end, we offer the 15.5x15. For general purpose we offer the 15.5x16.5. For higher top end and lower rpm, we offer the 15.5x18.Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
Personally I ran the 15.5x18 all year this year. I love it! On the R&D Kaiyen I can get the boat about 43 mph unloaded and when loaded down for surfing it gets on plane good but really runs lower RPM's. The general idea is as you go down in pitch, you can get more weight on plane at wakeboarding speeds. Between the 15.5x18 and the 15.5x15, you can probably get about 1500lbs on plane with similar performance. If you are wakeboarding with 5000lbs or more and you do that often then maybe the 15.5x15 is the better prop for you. However, as you go up in pitch you gain speed AND lower rpms. You gain about 2 mph per pitch change. So, on a boat where you might get 42 or 43, the 16.5 is probably going to be about 40 and the 15 will be about 38. Also, as you go up in pitch, you lower rpms. Again, these numbers are rough, but I tell people about 200-300 rpm. So, if you are surfing at 3800 rpm with the 16.5, you would probably be closer to 3500-3600 with the 18. Again, everyone uses their boats differently, but some people on this forum have tried some of these props and you can probably get them to chine in with their personal examples also. For the way we use the boat, we surf a LOT, wakeboard with a lot of weight ONLY occasionally, and we sometimes go by water to a marina or different areas of the lake. By lowering the rpm at surfing, it is not only more efficient, but it lowers the noise. And then when it is time to get home or outrun a storm, the higher top speed is really nice. I have tried all the props and they all serve a purpose, just depends on what you want to be most important.
To sum it up again, the 400 with the 1.76 is probably similar to the 450 was with the 1.5, if not better. And with the new prop options, I think it is even more drastic. We offered the 450 with 1.76 last year and if you drove a boat with 450 vs 400 there was a HUGE difference. Now, with the 1.76 and prop options, you can get closer with just the 400. Because of that, I would imagine that most boats NOT at altitude can do fine with just the 400 with 1.76 and the right prop. If you are altitude, then you still might consider the 450 because it does have more power.
question is, why hasn't anyone done the 1:76 from the start? why do we even have 1.5. Not like there is a material cost difference.
Goose,Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
Thank you sir, Exactly why I asked the question. Details from Engineering is credible versus anything from Facebook.
Many of SC boat owners are gearheads or Engineers that crave data.
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Just for the record, I am not really an engine or prop specialist, but in the past, we didn't really need the 1.76. The gear ratio and prop have to go hand in hand. In the past, the 1.5 was the best tradeoff because we had the right props to match it along with the boat sizes. 20 years ago, the majority of boats were sold with 1 or 1.25 gear ratio. Because again, at that time they had the right props to match it. A larger prop is NOT always the best solution. As I said before, everything is a tradeoff. A large prop can give more torque, but sometimes a smaller prop gives more speed. Also, a larger prop without the power to turn it is not effiecient. Same as a small prop that just slips.Quote:
Originally Posted by jason1973
That is why I explained the props and the transmission. I am sure with time we will find even better solutions, but these things take a little time. And there is actually a material cost difference. The props are more expensive and the transmissions are a little more expensive too. If the 1.76 takes over the market then higher volumes can probably get the 1.76 transmission close in price to 1.5, but a larger prop has more material and is more expensive. Also, the standard prop for the 1.5 was actually a hand finished prop. The 15.5 props are CNC cut.
Saw a new 2020 SL at dealer today.
There is a badass new metallic black color!!!!!
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..and you didn’t take a pic?Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
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Not sure it’s “allowed” yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2018MojoPro
I do have a picture
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I’d say if it’s at the dealer surely the public can see it [emoji12]
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Local dealer had a 2020 SL. That new black is sweet.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
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There are 4 black color options nowQuote:
Originally Posted by MJHSupra
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Every other boat dealer has announced their 2020 lineups and changes. Why is Supra taking so long to announce theirs?
Can we see the new goods now please??
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I am guessing this week
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