At what speed to you slalom? (and other ramblings about my technique...)

Sled,

The last couple of weeks MrsZ and I have been going through the course. I haven't done much on the course in a long time, injuries and laziness. I would pull her sometimes but during the summer we have to qualify as having the most ignorant (can I say DA here??) boaters and jetskiers when it concerns a ski course. But we have caught the bug again and no one is on the lake now (????). And while I am to ashamed to tell you how I am doing one thing that we are doing is EXACTLY what you said, make the first one and even if we miss the second keep going after them little buggers! And that has helped us a good bit! Now if only HO would release her 2010 Couture (long story)!!!

PS ( I got 2 so far!!! :p)

Z two balls or 2 skiis :)

No not 2 skis!
Maybe I meant 2 full bindings?
Maybe I meant I fell on both cheeks?
Maybe I saw 2 alligators?

Ok I meant to bouys, balls, or buggers as I like to call them now because it seems I am always chasing them but never catching them!

We (MrsZ, Z and I ) all are skiing the course at a higher speed than what we used to just to try to improve our skills and boy this makes this difficult but fun as it is a much greater challenge now! OK still not at your hyper warp speed! :)

I usually free ski at 15 off, ~32mph. I've added that last 15' back onto the rope and dropped to 30mph in the course. I've managed to pull like 1 3/4 balls so far. I haven't had a single pass with smooth water (hoping for it tonight!) so I think that I'll be able to get at least 2, maybe 3 on decent water. The only reason I miss the second ball is because I'm bouncing off of waves, I literally miss it by about a foot every time.

In other news, I got some new pics of me free skiing;

https://forum.moomba.com/attachment....1&d=1253205490

https://forum.moomba.com/attachment....1&d=1253205490

https://forum.moomba.com/attachment....1&d=1253205490

I know, I know: I hold my hands/handle too high! I've been working on pulling it down. My biggest bad habbit so far has been bending at the waste when I cut. I think I've got that under control, so I'm working on keeping the hands low now.

Still rocking the single boot EP from before I was born. New ski/bindings will be something for next season.

EP skis ruled the day!!! It's a shame they are gone! I love the new boots on my Radar Senate but I am not sure it skis any better than my old EP! I guess this weekend I will pull it out and see how it does. Compare them back to back.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zegm

EP skis ruled the day!!! It's a shame they are gone! I love the new boots on my Radar Senate but I am not sure it skis any better than my old EP! I guess this weekend I will pull it out and see how it does. Compare them back to back.

---

Dude, I was thinking the same thing! I wish I could put Radar boots on my old HP Graphite. Even though it 23 years old I still love that ski!

Ian -
I am no pro - by any stretch - but I would like to guess that you are at a normal stage of development for slalom.

What I write below is based on my experience, either past or present, and should be taken with a multi-grains of salt. I don't think I can emphasize enough the value of true coaching from a pro (i.e., someone other than me)

Everthing starts with the eyes (IMHO).

Based on the first two photos I would say you are either leaning back (over the back of the ski) in the preturn to start your turn (you may even be starting your turn with your head, kind of a nod-over-the-shoulder thing), OR your bindings are placed such that you are putting a lot of weight on the back of the ski, OR the ski may be just too big? In the top photo look how much ski is out of the water, your entire front foot - when in fact your entire front foot should be in the water.

Two footed turn - The easiest way to get the front foot in the water is to be in good position off the second wake.

Angle - The easiest way to get in good position off the second wake is to have good angle across the wakes. This allows you to cut through the wake with good leverage and minimal bounce.

Long Arms - The easiest way to have good angle is to have low hands going into the first wake. That means that you have 'long arms', elbows pretty much extended, elbows in close - touching your body, hands down by lower stomach, hips, or thighs (if you are a God). This requires some knee bend, varying by who you are. If you are not careful and forget to do this, you hold the pull across the wake with bent elbows. This takes much more strength and makes holding angle almost impossible because it reduces your leverage against the boat.

Balanced weight - To get the 'long arms' you need good balance over the ski coming out of the turn, i.e., not too far back. This is one place, where when you watch the pros, you may see a large variance. Some of these guys at really short rope will sort of 'wheelie' with front foot coming out of the water. But - if you watch them you will see even though the tip is up, they are not back over the ski, in fact they are probably over their front foot, and they get the ski back in the water into the 'long arm' position very quickly.

Let the ski turn - To get good balance over the ski coming out of the turn you need to let the ski do the turning. That is what it is designed to do. This is handled by 1. letting go in the preturn, 2. reaching-in low and skiing away from the handle (this is where the 'low-to-the-water' looks comes from naturally), 3. keep the free hand quiet and low, by your hip, high free arm has different effects on different people and you will see some pros do it, but from what I can tell keeping it low is prefered, 4. pulling - yes you pull as the ski comes around, but at the same time you sort of ski your hips up to your hands. The hard part of this is that if you turn your head early, you turn you shoulders which turns your hips, knees, ski..

Pre-turn - There are lots of different theories on this, the biggest difference is the West Coast vs. conventional turn. I am not that familiar with the WC style, but the goal in both case is pretty much the same. Set up the ski to do the work. You need to slow the ski down before the turn - that is what the wing is for and that is why you need balanced weight on the front foot, more ski in the water = more drag = slower ski = easier turn. This typically starts with the edge roll coming off the second wake or very soon after. And it is made much more difficult if you are bouncing off the wake because you have poor angle/body position. Where you direct your vision going into the turn is critical.

All in the eyes - Where you look effects your pre-turn. Your eyes control your head, your head controls your shoulders, your shoulders your hips, you hips your knees, your knees the ski. If you look down you will bend at the waist, if you do it enough you will face plant. If you look up-and over your inside shoulder you will probably go straight back over your ski. As soon as you start looking across course you will start turning in that direction or at least start getting narrow (losing outward momentum, getting closer to the wake). In worst case you will start to sink and then get popped as the slack tightens and make it impossible to get long arms. My experience is to look straight ahead, paralell to the boat in the pre-turn and keep looing in that general direction as the ski comes around in the turn. In other words your lower body is turning under your upper body (a lot like a downhill ski turn when you are going straight down the fall line). This sort of gives you a modified WC body position by default, but not as painful. It keeps your shoulders square to the boat (facing down course) even as the ski comes across under the rope. This makes getting a good reach, good pull, and long arms all possible because it gives you good leverage against the boat.

So it all starts with the eyes....

Well that certainly got longer than I had hoped. And it is just about everything I know about sthe slalom turn. So it either exposes me as completely clueless or confirms what I think I know.

Hope this helps.
Dave

Wow, Dave said a mouthful there. BUt he is right, in your first pic the one thing that jumps out at you is how high you are riding, especially considering where you are in the turn. It may seem easier to let the ski kind of fall over on its tail to make the turn, but as Dave said that's not how it was built to turn.

Shoulders square to the back of the boat, and pull to your hips. Trying to make balls in the course should not be on your agenda just right now. You should stay at the 15 off and work on rounding out your turns and making them fluid. Then start to pull harder as your muscle memory takes over other basic elements of a good turn

Biggest mistake I see guys make is making a second pull after the second wake on there off side. This just sets you up for failure. Angle accross the wake is key to speed and set up. You would be surprised how much time you will really have to make the balls at 30 or 32 at 15 off if you are really making good turns

I definately have an issue cutting through the wake. Last night for the first time I actually cut through, and it felt awesome, but I normally have a hard time staying on edge - I typically end up jumping the ski across the wakes, which sucks for my control.

I ended up with glass on the course last night and I took the afore mentioned advice of just cutting back and fourth to get a rythem down, it seemed to help quite a bit. Another thing that I think the course has helped me with is to get my arms stretched out, instead of bent like in the pictures above.

I'm starting to think the ski is a bit big for me, as I feel like I'm riding high and I can't seem to push the front half down any further.

I appreciate any/all advice, as I definately am willing to learn! Last year I went to a wakeboard school for my birthday, I'm definately thinking that this year I'll be getting some ski lessons!

From looking at those pictures I would also suggest that you are going too slow. The ski looks like it's sinking out and the extra speed might help you stay a little more balanced over the ski.

How long is that EP anyway?