Winterization Procedure with pics - new and improved

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Originally Posted by mcdye

Awesome work.

I was reviewing my notes that I made when I brought my boat. The dealer and I did the water drain since I brought the boat in the winter and we did a sea run. The only additional item that I had in my notes was to drain what he called the "J" hose. You can see it in the second picture up. It is between the thermostat housing and the lower part of the engine water pump(not fresh water pump). We disconnected from the pump end and drained.

Another item, How many of you spray the engine with some sort of rust inhibitor once all done? (wd-40, engine stor,etc..)

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McDye,

You piqued my curiosity so I went out and pulled the bottom of the J hose this morning (I already winterized my boat using my write up so I did not previously pull this hose). I got no more than ¼ to 1/3 cup of water out of it. I think that most of the water in the hose drained out the engine block drain holes and the little bit of water I got out is what was sitting in the bottom of the “J” so if it was to freeze, it would have plenty of room to expand.

In any case, I agree that this hose should be drained as the goal is to get all the water out. I will revise my procedure accordingly.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

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Originally Posted by DOCDRS

good addition , i have always disconnected the j hose, alot of water comes out of here, plus i was amazed how much water comes out the muffler on my v drive

thanks for the great pics and posts

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How much water comes out of the J hose and the muffler I think depends on what you do first. I removed the block plugs first and got very little water from the muffler drain and the J hose.

Write up has been revised to include the "J" hose, both the version with pics on page 1 of this post and the text version only on page 8. I will also make a separate post to make this point so that those that are going of the old write up will be aware.

Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by mcdye

Another item, How many of you spray the engine with some sort of rust inhibitor once all done? (wd-40, engine stor,etc..)

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mcdye,

I noticed that the inside of the hose outlets are very rusty so I would be interested in this. How would you get the rust inhibitor into all of the water passages in the engine? I suppose that filling the system with antifreeze as opposed to draining all the water would help prevent this.

cab , great write up, pics and awesome to keep updating. As a diy'er access to information is very useful. Brian Raymond at SC has also been a valuable source of information if needed. keep all the good work

Winterized mine saturday and the nuts on the vdrive were a royal pita. I couldn't loosen them so i put a shop vac on one end of the unit to suck out any ridual water then ran plumbing antifreeze thru it. came back to it later after i was done everything as to not let a little bolt get the better of me. I got the rear one loose figured it was lower than the front so the better of the two and having removed both intake and discharge hoses no antifreeze drained out the bolt hole. Don at Aquamarine didn't think there would be much after disconnecting the hoses....he was right...but i had to find out for myself.

Did some research on the dripless shaft seal systems and it appears as they are self draining and actually when operating one saying upto a gallon per minute. so apparently no real need to do any winterizing here....... and nothing was mentioned to me as far as i know by my dealer......

doc,

You're fine. Nothing ever comes out of the front v-drive plug. Dealer told me it was a vent so I should not expect anything to come out of it. Did you use a closed end, 7/16" wrench as shown in the pic? It fits perfect. If you can find a make shift cheater bar such as the right size pipe, you should be able to break it free. But no real need to.

Cab
actually used an open 3/8 or 5/16 not sure which one that fit perfectly with a cheater to get it loose , will prob just use shop vac to blow out and use antifreeze next year as thats prob even over kill. Always nice to hear what others do

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Originally Posted by cab13367

mcdye,

I noticed that the inside of the hose outlets are very rusty so I would be interested in this. How would you get the rust inhibitor into all of the water passages in the engine? I suppose that filling the system with antifreeze as opposed to draining all the water would help prevent this.

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Sorry I was not clear, I was not refering to inside the engine. But to coat the outside of the engine with something to prevent corrison. It is in my Indmar manual.

For internal I would suspect that antifreeze would be the answer.

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Originally Posted by DOCDRS

Cab
actually used an open 3/8 or 5/16 not sure which one that fit perfectly with a cheater to get it loose , will prob just use shop vac to blow out and use antifreeze next year as thats prob even over kill. Always nice to hear what others do

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Cab - I also used a 3/8 wrench for these plugs. You sure you have the right size in your document?

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Originally Posted by dhickey

Cab - I also used a 3/8 wrench for these plugs. You sure you have the right size in your document?

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Yes, a 7/16" closed end or boxed end wrench (see below) fits perfectly on the squared headed plug. And it sounds like a 3/8" open wrench fits it too. I prefer the boxed end wrench as there is no chance of slipping and possibly rounding off the corners of the square headed plug especially if the plug is stubborn and requires a lot of force to break free. But either one will work.

http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/sjdiscounttools_2076_190924754

Im all finished with mine thanks everyone for the great info. When I finished mine 2 weeks ago I noticed that some of the carpet was damp so I left all the hatches open. Should I leave it like that or do you you guys close everything up and put the cover on?

I bought a couple of cheap 18" box fans at HD and after every outing, I leave the hatches open and run the fans overnight to dry the carpets.

I don't put the covers on during winter lay up as my garage does not get very dusty. Plus, I am always climbing in and out to look at stuff and work on winter projects.

Glad the instructions were helpful.

Hey Al, i've heard that petroleum based lubricants are not good for the impellers and that water sol ones are better.....ky is a good brand and it's more sexier lol , i used to use vaseline and have had problems in the spring.

Also recently i've heard dryer sheets will keep the rodents away , not that i've ever had a prob but easy and cheap to do,distibute the around the boat and you will have a sweet fresh boat in the spring

Doug

Doug,

The owner's manual specifically says to use Vaseline. What problems did u have in the spring and how do u know it was caused by the Vaseline?

Al

I know it says vaseline in the manual, but when i put the impeller in that i used the vaseline it went in nice and easy but there was no updraw of water from the lake. I took it out imediately cleaned the inside of the pump and put in my spare old which had not been coated and eveything was fine. I figured somehow the vaseline was preventing a good seal...didn't make sense but i didn't have any problems till I tried the vaseline. Just my experience. i'm am one who if it works for you keep doing it, I am just passing on my experience. When that did happen i did some research into impellers and thats when i found out the petroleum based products should not be left on the impellars for extended lengths of time.
( also recommended by johnson
This is how to fit the new one
Lubricate the shaft and the inside of the pump body and the end cover. Use soap or vaseline (petroleum jelly) to help develop prime and prevent damage from dry-running the pump at initial start-up. Mount the impeller by making a pushing and twisting movement in the rotating direction. Lubricated impellers should not be stored for extended periods of time. Engine should be run after installation of a new impeller to wash out the lubrication.
These recommendations also apply to any service work on the pump and its components that require the use of lubrication inside the pump for assembly and start-up.)

This is when i switched to water based lubrication . only as an installation and removal aid

here is a johnson pump article http://www.johnson-pump.com/JPMarine...-Imp_guide.pdf


Another interesting note is that when i traded to a new v drive this fall the service tech said he doesn't remove the impeller for winterization on v drives, he only removes them when he replaces them ,totally surprised me. I asked how often and i think he said he gets 4 years out of impeller.......i was flabergasted to say the least ......mind you i have impellers that I have used 3 years and look day 1 brand new but i do take them out at winter to relax the arms. I also think having a water strainer is a must, i have yet to ever se anyarms deteriorated torn or marked on any of my impellers. I am going to talk to him again about this just to verify and will keep this updated.

I just completed winterizing my Moomba for the first time by myself. THANK YOU CAB!!!! Your instructions are perfect.

Up until now I had it done by a boat mechanic. I have to say I'm still a bit nervous. I hope I got all the water out. Guess I'll find out in the spring.

I did have kind of a weird situation. When I "bumped" the starter I lost all power in the boat. It was like i tripped the main breaker. then the power came back, so I tried it again. This time a 6 inch spark/flame shot out from the positive terminal on the battery. Any idea what that was?

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Originally Posted by brenpire

I just completed winterizing my Moomba for the first time by myself. THANK YOU CAB!!!! Your instructions are perfect.

Up until now I had it done by a boat mechanic. I have to say I'm still a bit nervous. I hope I got all the water out. Guess I'll find out in the spring.

I did have kind of a weird situation. When I "bumped" the starter I lost all power in the boat. It was like i tripped the main breaker. then the power came back, so I tried it again. This time a 6 inch spark/flame shot out from the positive terminal on the battery. Any idea what that was?

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You're welcome, glad the instructions empowered you to do it yourself. And don't worry, if you followed the instructions, then you got as much water out as the mechanic would have as he would have done the same thing.

As far as the sparking issue you experienced, I have no idea what that could have been. What boat do you have?

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Originally Posted by DOCDRS

[SIZE=2]I know it says vaseline in the manual, but when i put the impeller in that i used the vaseline it went in nice and easy but there was no updraw of water from the lake. I took it out imediately cleaned the inside of the pump and put in my spare old which had not been coated and eveything was fine. I figured somehow the vaseline was preventing a good seal...didn't make sense but i didn't have any problems till I tried the vaseline. Just my experience. i'm am one who if it works for you keep doing it, I am just passing on my experience. When that did happen i did some research into impellers and thats when i found out the petroleum based products should not be left on the impellars for extended lengths of time.

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So it seems that the issue you had with Vaseline was not related to using it for storing but rather, the water pump would not draw water thru the intake and you believe this was because the impeller was coated with Vaseline.

Nevertheless, you got me curious so I called Johnson Pump today and spoke to one of their engineers. He said that putting a thin coat of Vaseline on the impeller then putting it in a ziploc bag for the winter will not hurt the impeller. This is also what it says in the Indmar manual that came with my boat. Based on those two things, I will personally continue to use Vaseline on the impeller.

I think everyone should do their own reasearch and do what they're comfortable with.

Thanks,

Al

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Originally Posted by DOCDRS

Another interesting note is that when i traded to a new v drive this fall the service tech said he doesn't remove the impeller for winterization on v drives, he only removes them when he replaces them ,totally surprised me. I asked how often and i think he said he gets 4 years out of impeller.......i was flabergasted to say the least ......mind you i have impellers that I have used 3 years and look day 1 brand new but i do take them out at winter to relax the arms. I also think having a water strainer is a must, i have yet to ever se anyarms deteriorated torn or marked on any of my impellers. I am going to talk to him again about this just to verify and will keep this updated.

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I specifically asked my dealership twice as I was getting it serviced/winterized if they take out the impellers and they said the same thing. I thought it was because they are lazy (and maybe it is), but they say that it doesn't hurt them to stay in all winter as long as you don't run it without any water pickup. Said that if you start it and run it without water for any length of time that pretty much eats them up. And that makes sense! I had read the same thing about using vasaline but think I might just leave it in this winter and see what happens. I have a spare anyway!

Question about the impeller: Does it matter which way it goes in?
When I took mine out today I looked closer at it and on one side it says Johnson and the # and the other side it says nothing.
The splines on one side (don't remember which side it was) come all the way out to the end of it and the other side there is maybe a half inch gap before the splines start.
I'd imagine it would only fit one way, but figured I'd check.
Mine was in with "Johnson" side facing towards the back.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by AaronWhitt82

Question about the impeller: Does it matter which way it goes in?
When I took mine out today I looked closer at it and on one side it says Johnson and the # and the other side it says nothing.
The splines on one side (don't remember which side it was) come all the way out to the end of it and the other side there is maybe a half inch gap before the splines start.
I'd imagine it would only fit one way, but figured I'd check.
Mine was in with "Johnson" side facing towards the back.

Thanks

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Aaron,

I made the same mistake u did - pulled the impeller the first time and didn't pay attention to which end was which. I don't recall there being that much difference - more like 1/8" maybe as far as where the spline starts.

I decided that Johnson would put their label and the part # so that it would be visible when u pulled the impeller cover so that's how I put it back in earlier this yr and it worked fine. I think it goes in both ways and I don't think it matters which way u put it in.

If anyone knows any different, please let us know.

Thx,

Al

Cab, and all, have any of you ever taken the top cover off of the V-drive in the spring to clean it out? The Walters V-drive manual says to pop the top (I think it says 6 hex head screws) and vaccuum out any particulates that have accumulated. It would just be the small area where the cooling water passes thru to cool the fluid in the pressure lines. It appears, from the schematic, that this pass-thru area for the cooling water is pretty small, and I can't imagine too much getting caught in there.

On another note, once I pulled my impeller this year, I found most of one paddle almost completely gone. I read several posts on worrying about pieces possibly passing thru the engine. Thinking of this, I pulled the line that goes into the in-line transmission cooler, and wouldn't you know it, there was the piece of the paddle, and some additional junk. Luckily, it let me know that for anything to pass thru that cooler, it would have to be fairly small. It also made me realize that putting a stainer on the cooling water intake might not be a bad idea, since with that piece of paddle I found a whole glob of accumulated seaweed.

I bought the boat used this year (it's an '08) and I could tell the impeller hadn't been pulled before. Thankfully I did! Bummer that it had a paddle gone already, but, I think whether you leave it out over the winter, or leave it in, pulling the impeller each year is a good idea. That, along with the inlet to the transmission cooler just to make sure nothing is in there, and the cooling flow is strong.

My Walters V drive manual does not say to pop the top and neither did the service guy at the dealership who showed me how to winterize.

Yeah, for the 5 minutes that it takes, I pull the impeller every winter. I'd rather do it at my convenience rather than on the water with a boat load of people.

Popped the top off my v-drive last year. Very open path for water flow and very little buildup so I don't think this needs to be an annual check. Gasket was extremely thin paper and not reusable so used RTV. Also replaced the original bolts with anodized because they were so rusty. Plan to pull the bottom off this winter and make a new gasket to see if this stops my oil leak.

If one doesnt have a fresh water strainer I would recommend checking/cleaning the Transmisson cooler at least annually. There is a screen in there and can get blocked.

It is a easy mod to added a fresh water strainer. It was one of my first mods and glad I did it. Do search for fresh water stainer to see the before/after. The parts were less then $70. Here is a link to my project thread https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?t=7597

I agree with that. The piece of mind that comes from knowing you've got a filter cleaning that water is one less thing to worry about! I plan to throw one of those in this spring!

Going to winterize my LSV this week. I have 06 LSV with EFI 5.7L 340 EXT/CAT. Asside from the no flame arrestor and fogging the cyclinders thru each spark plug, is there any other deviations from this procedure that anyone has noticed?

If you have a heater system you need to blow the water out of it. Al's boat doesn't have a heater yet. Mine does, there's a line at the water pump area and the other part is by the Starboard exhaust manifold, you need to remove these and blow out as much water as possible.

Other then that Al's write up is perfect.

on my 340 cat the heater hoses are on the port side , its an 09 tho, how do you like the tsunami? have you ever tried a ride? thinkin of getting one for the newbies they are suppose to be faster? anyone know if they are?

Not sure if you question was directed toward me or not, but tsunami surfer is pretty money. it is faster and lil harder to ride than the larger Broadcast any others. Little harder to learn the sweet spot than the larger boards. Good for trying spins though. I learned on a Tsunami so can ride about anything now.

Not trying to Pirate Cab's thread so if u got more questions on the Surfers start new thread.

Cab awesome post will be using this tomorrow when I winterize, tried to wait it out in hope of one last ride, but might snow saturday night so its time.

Got the winterization done. Thanks for the instructions Cab. Couldn't get the V-drive plugs out, but got the hoses loose so not too worried about it.

Could tell its been a few week since I had been on the boat, bc I hit the towers speakers with my head about 4 times. Seeing Stars. Most knuckles came out bloody too.

Anybody with 340 ETX-CAT on LSV, how the he11 do you get to spark plug 1. I fogged all except that one. Couldn't get the socket to it bc of the Cats.

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Originally Posted by SC_LSV

Got the winterization done. Thanks for the instructions Cab. Couldn't get the V-drive plugs out, but got the hoses loose so not too worried about it.

Could tell its been a few week since I had been on the boat, bc I hit the towers speakers with my head about 4 times. Seeing Stars. Most knuckles came out bloody too.

Anybody with 340 ETX-CAT on LSV, how the he11 do you get to spark plug 1. I fogged all except that one. Couldn't get the socket to it bc of the Cats.

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Pretty sure it says NOT to FOG Cat engines. The FOG spray causes the CATs to over heat and may cause damage. Id assume you can use something like carb cleaner in the cylinders to wash that FOG spray into the oil then change the oil. I would consult a dealer about what to do since you FOGed it. Sorry to be the bringer of the news bro.

mmandley,

Indmar manual says for Cat engines that cylinders can be protected by removing spark plugs and applying fogging oil directly to cylinders. Everything I have read about this engine says to remove plugs and spray about 3 seconds into each cylinder then bump starter.

SC_LSV

I've got a little question for you all. Just some food for though, or ideas of what others have done. When winterizing this year, I had the plugs out, and sprayed the fogging oil in the cylinders as is recommended, then turned the engine over a few times to lube the entired cylinder. Well, the pistons pushed some of the fogging oil out, enough that it got on the lowered engine comparment doors, and a little on the rear compartment carpet. This wasn't a huge issue, as it cleaned up easily with some simple green - but I am just curious when winterizing by yourself, how you guys kept this from happening -or did you?

throw an old towel over the side, or put the plugs back in before ya bump it, 2 or 3 secs of fog oil is not enough to cause hydraulic lock.

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Originally Posted by squeeg333

I've got a little question for you all. Just some food for though, or ideas of what others have done. When winterizing this year, I had the plugs out, and sprayed the fogging oil in the cylinders as is recommended, then turned the engine over a few times to lube the entired cylinder. Well, the pistons pushed some of the fogging oil out, enough that it got on the lowered engine comparment doors, and a little on the rear compartment carpet. This wasn't a huge issue, as it cleaned up easily with some simple green - but I am just curious when winterizing by yourself, how you guys kept this from happening -or did you?

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Squeeg,

This has never happened to me. Maybe u sprayed a little too much oil in there and/or spun the engine too long? I only spray about a second or two and bump the engine for about 1 sec.

Personally, I wouldn't put the plugs in then bump the engine as you'll have that thick oil on the plugs all winter and run the risk of fouling them. I guess if you had some old plugs you could screw them in part of the way then bump it.

Thanks guys. This wasn't really too much of an issue, just something I needed to clean a bit. Just curious if you all had experienced this. This was my first time winterizing, so now I know for next time.

Drained all the water from my Outback, or so I hope. I was reviewing the manual and I apparently missed the part about the transmission cooler. I didn't drain anything from there. My boat is locked up in the storage building at my marina and I can't get there for another week. Is this something that could cause a problem if it freezes in the storage building?

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Originally Posted by graybmg

Drained all the water from my Outback, or so I hope. I was reviewing the manual and I apparently missed the part about the transmission cooler. I didn't drain anything from there. My boat is locked up in the storage building at my marina and I can't get there for another week. Is this something that could cause a problem if it freezes in the storage building?

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not sure when they moved the tranny cooler to after the raw water pump, if its there and you took out the impeller you should be ok as it's self draining. If its before the raw water pump then it depends if you have a water strainer. If you do and its before the cooler there could be a problem, if there is no water strainer you my be ok as it may be a gradual slope down to the water intake and most of it should have drained out