Also Bu confuses me with multiple hull options on a lsv. Why can't one hull design work for surf and wake boarding like every other OEM.
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Also Bu confuses me with multiple hull options on a lsv. Why can't one hull design work for surf and wake boarding like every other OEM.
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my cousin had 2 lsv's back from '15 to '18ish-both bought new. he absolutely hated them. said for the price the fit/finish looks good out of the gate but after 50hrs on the lake they both started to fall apart. he hated the bow rise and wakeboard wake would not clean up for his kids if you are running in the teens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdmybeer
sold and bought a nautty gs22 and said it was night and day compared to the 'bu's. he did say that they both surfed very well stock.
personally I think bu succumbs to the investment community and will cut wherever possible. boutique builders like supra seem to have a better rep for longer term quality of materials.
my opinion anyway.
Look at this deal on a MasterCraft X24!!!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...059a4fdee3.jpg
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Value priced! I shopped a used 2019 Axis prior to getting my craz and interior quality is NOWHERE near a Moomba. As Far as wave goes, they get a great wave but bow rise has to be dealt with. I installed a taller seat post for my wife and she loved it. On Bu/Axis you cant do that because the seat mounts flat to the floor. Bow rise was the main reason we never even looked at a Mastercraft, they are worse than Bu. And the wedge while it adds and can really help fine tune a wave it is a huge fuel suck. The guys who have lsvs seem to rave about them. Apparently the 25lsv is quite the boat. But having not been on a Malibu since my 98 sunsetter, i cant tell you how they surf or ride or hold up. 30% off is a nice discount but probably still 140-150k?Quote:
Originally Posted by mgswake
Mastercrafts are truly overpriced. My personal issues list....
Cons:
1) ugly towers, just can't get over them
2) klipsch audio is garbage.
3)bow rise is 12-13 deg.
4) they still use carpet for flooring
5) dock star was crap, finally switched to thruster
Pros:
1) interior is nice, seems high quality
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We fell in love with a Nautique S23 at the show. It was $184k at 20% off. If we could be at %30 off, I think we would buy it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdmybeer
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Tell them that. You might end up with one.Quote:
Originally Posted by cucv
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Youre dead correct on 23LSV price. $148k includes prep but not tax.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxmark4
I'm not behind on my mojo so I could make enough to warrant a down payment but interest rates are my big stopper.
Current payment $500 new payment would be $1k. My season is 4 months at best....not sure I can justify that.
I honestly can't believe a 2022 23lsv MSRP is $210k.
I would shop a low hour Supra.
Supra has more content/features at the less MSRP, you just won't get a 30% discount
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I wont spend over 500/month on anything other than a house. Call me cheap but I can have a lot of fun on 500/mo. For 150k you could probably have a new or near new Supra like Larry says.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holdmybeer
This is where I bought my Moomba new. They have several used Supras for sale. A couple of SE models as well.
https://atlantamarine.com/https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...f8e00b4e29.jpg
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I have issues with all pricing right now TBH.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
The $210k price point is the same as a new SL450. The fact BU dealer can offer 30% off and still make money is crazy. New Supra pricing is the same. $200k for SL450 with same competitive options...out the door price is $168k range...18% discount.
Im more siding with Mxmark4....the more I sit on it the more I will keep my mojo. Yeah, it's older but that $500 payment is 2 years old and only have 4 more years left...that $1k bill is 20yrs and that is ridiculous.
I was like that with my first few wake boats and even the SA, longer term with lower payment. Then got tired of not seeing my balance drop much. When boat prices went nuts and I knew that we'd probably have this 1 a long time, I refinanced to a crazy low rate but 7 year term. Yes, the payment is steep, but a few more years and it'll be paid off. Lucky I did, inflation with prices and rates, couldn't even think about buying new again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mxmark4
Just curious what made you fall in love with the S23? What tower did that boat have at the show?Quote:
Originally Posted by cucv
I demo'd the S21 and S23 back in August of 2021 when they first came out and loved them. I actually had my checkbook at the second demo, but the dealer didn't give me numbers that day and instead emailed them to me later.
I loved how they drove and handled, I would say a good bit more maneuverable than my SL.
I had just moved from up north to South Carolina and the new dealer was only offering 8% where my old dealer would constantly offer 18-20% when I priced boats. So my well optioned S23 with underwater lights, telescoping tower, heater, heated seats, and courtesy lights was 212,000 MSRP, 192,000 sale price. 18-20% would have put me near 170,000-172,000. I would have bought the Nautique than and there for that price. I expressed that to the dealer and they basically laughed at me and said 192,000 and a 1,000 pro shop credit. Thus, I found the nearby Supra dealer and demo'd an SA and the rest is history.
A quick comparison:
Overall looks, personal preference but I think the less boxy lines of the Supra look cleaner.
Bow - The S23 does not have armrests or hinged bow seats. My SL has hinged seats and armrests. The wind screen/seat back on the SL is an amazing feature that I don't believe any other manufacturer has.
Cockpit - The S23 has one sub, Supra 2 subs. The helm seat is very similar, my Supra is power seat, I don't think the S23 is power. The Supra has 2 screens, the Nautiques have 1 unless you get a Paragon. I like the two screens so I can have my map up and other info on the other screen. The helm control dial on the Nautiques is a cool feature Supra doesn't have. The Supra has port and flip up seatback and fixed starboard seatback (which provides awesome area to store large trashcan and access if you put it in the cupholder which I did). The S23 has port and starboard flip up seatbacks. Also, the sliding seat on my Supra flips over for a table, S23 doesn't.
Cooler - Supra IN THE FLOOR, S23 under the starboard seat. I was on a boat this summer a Malibu MXZ 24 and we had 14 people on it. It was a pain having people get up and climb across each other to access the cooler. I'll take my in floor cooler any day on the Supra.
Transom - Supra has the seats on the sunpad with flip up backrests, S23 has them built lower into the transom. This is a personal preference and I like both designs. The S23 doesn't have the full locker on the back which the Supra does, I love this feature for storing surf boards and lake toys for my little ones. But the best use i s wet life jackets, they don't even make it into the boat!!
Towers - the telescoping tower is amazing on the S23. It was also a 25k option 1.5 years ago. But we got caught in a rain storm and lowered the tower and there were 7 of us and not a drop of water came in the cockpit area. I have heard you can tilt the Supra tower forward with the bimini deployed and protect some people in a Supra from rain. The Supra tower is definitely nicer than the non telescoping towers on the Nautique. I guess the telecoping tower vs the Supra tower woud be personal preference.
Personally, at the S23 prices I would buy a 2020 or newer used G23. You get so many more features. I started a thread on planetnautique about how I think the S series was mispriced. I think Nautique wants too much for that boat because like I mentioned you can get a 2-3 year old G (still under warranty) for very similar prinig to a new S series and the G will blow it out of the water in features. Just checked onlyinboards, 2 2020 G23 159,900. lowest 2021 179000.
I did like the wakeboard wake with the 100" beam. It was a bit narrower than my SL. It was probably the best wake I have ridden in a long time. I am still only 21 hours into my SL so I am still dialing the wakeboard wake in.
Honestly, if you were considering spending that kind of coin on a boat, I would recommend pricing Supra.
@mgswake thanks for your detailed response, I will surely read it several times and take notes.
We all use our boats differently so some things that are important to one are not to another but I appreciate the input from all on this forum as often there are thing we don't realize will be important to us.
We have a place on a lake so we don't spend the whole day on our boat. We ski off the dock and are on and off the dock all the time, so storage is not a huge factor for us.
We currently have a 05 Tige 22V with a DIY surf system (tabs and gates) that surfs excellent and we are really in the market for a Mojo. We demo'd a Mojo late last summer and really liked the boat. The Mojo was louder than our Tige and surf wave wasn't as good as our Tige but I know with some R+D it has lots of potential.
With the current interest rates, it makes things a bit more challenging, especially when it comes to a custom order boat vs. in stock.
I just squeezed in an 8'6' x 10' garage door on our existing 28' deep garage at the lake and stopped in to talk to the Nautique folk to review specs. on the Paragon for an additional garage bay, I'd like to try and put on the garage. I figure if I build it, maybe some day I could get a Paragon.
In discussions with the Factory rep we noticed the S23 and the boat just checked all the boxes and was exactly how we would custom order it. So the financing thing is simpler and the S23 fits in our existing garage bay.
When we demo'ed the Mojo we looked at the SL but at that point with minimal discounting it just didn't capture our attention. We did look at the SL at the show but the colors and how it was optioned was not right for us and they don't have anything in stock close to how we would order it.
Maneuverability: the factory rep also highlighted this point about the S23 as well as other handling points that I value vs the G boat.
Tower: The S23 had the standard tower which works for me and enables the boat to fit in my existing garage vs the G boat with telescoping tower (super cool but I don't need it.)
Bow: I tend to prefer traditional bow style and don't put a huge value on bow space. The SL backrest wind screen is super nice!
Cockpit: 1 sub is fine for us. Both seats are such an upgrade from our existing boat I don't get into that detail, but surely will, as a power seat would be a nice option. I don't put much value on the table, but the SL table is sweet.
Cooler: A cooler is not important to us, but yes, the subfloor cooler on the SL is better than one under seat.
Transom: We absolutely love the walk thru transom on the S23. We also love the full locker on the SL.
Tower: Our main criteria is ease of access to board the boat from the dock. I believe they both do this equally well, vs. other mfg's. I think I need to spend more time looking at the tower and Bimini options on both boats.
Engine: I found the Raptor engine on Mojo to be loud. I'm thinking the PCM in the S23 would be quieter, and the factory rep indicated it runs at lower rpm's than the G boat at surf speed. More research is to be done on this point.
The Nautique dealer has a location in town (lake house) but it's geared toward pontoon boats. The Nautique location is 12 miles away and on our way home from the lake. The Moomba/Supra Dealer is an hour away (lake house), can have significant traffic on that route, and is in the opposite direction from home.
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@cucv
All good points. This forum tends to be more open to other brands than some of the other brand specific forums, but still tends to lean toward SC brands (Moomba and Supra). I probably would have been in an S23 if the dealer could work with me on pricing but I am not and I am very happy with my SL.
The engine noise is interesting. I have been on the S21, S23, and I own a Supra SL. I couldn't tell any difference in noise. I actually had a friend out wakeboarding and he commented on how quiet the engine was. His exact words were "all I could hear was water splashing". That was at wakeboard length about 65-70 feet. But that same friend rides I/O, malibu, and a few others for comparison.
The Supra have a noise dampening lining that I don't believe the Moomba's have, so that Mojo may have been louder.
You really should try to get the boat on the water and see if you like how it handles, drives, the wake and wave, the noise. If you can.
Also, if you are anywhere near Columbia SC, you are welcome to come ride on our SL for a day.
Can't go wrong with any of these boats they are all super nice.
Thanks for the offer, @mgswake. I'll surely look you up if I get in the area.
What are folks seeing for prices on SL's? The one I saw at the show was $174k but no thrusters.
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@cucv $174k? Cheapest at our show was 190k. Would he interested to know what people are getting their new SLs for. Obviously options play a big part in the price.
The sound deadening foam and surf pipe makes a huge difference in engine noise.
Very easy and cheap to add sound deadening foam panels.
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True.Quote:
Originally Posted by cozilla
450 motor, thrusters, and being a repeat customer are big factors on comparing price.
450 and thrusters = $20kQuote:
Originally Posted by MJHSupra
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Boat show this weekend for Knoxville. Really only going to see if I can get a deal on an e foil. Love lookin at boats but the prices have gotten so crazy its almost like window shopping exotic cars
Take lots of pictures for us!!
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Saw a lot of good looking boats today. Nice g 25 paragon without a boat show price on it. Retail said 440k and it was sold. Not as many accessories available as I would have imagined, lots of dock builders there, tons of pontoons ended up buying a bunch of reef sandals @ 50% off. Other than that the only other boat I looked at the I really had any interest in was the new craz. But for now I dont think Im missing out too much on having a new boat. Was hoping for a better price on e foils. Supra prices all seemed in line with what most others are posting up. Most of the moombas seemed to be around 123k
Paragon at 440! Wow. That's that's as stupidly priced as a Pavati.
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When I bought my 2021 Moomba Makai, I could have bought 4 of them for that Paragon price. One for each kid and my wife!
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440 MSRP
389 Boat Show Special or about that range
I assume it was a custom order that the dealer brought to show off. Just my guess. It did not appear anyone was allowed to board it.
It was sweet. That was the highest price wake boat I have been around.
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Dealer on YouTube had a walk through.
425,000 not sure sale price or Msrp. Said 135,000 down payment and 2,000/month for 20 years. Ouch
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I saw this on the Nautique page. Someone is selling their Paragon, there might be something big at the Sacramento boat show according to random internet post. Interested to see if Nautique has a new boat coming out
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Was beautiful boat as was the G25 next to it and a relative value at 340k.
We went Friday during the storm, only thing I bought was a pair of board shorts on sale from Tommy's because my jeans were soaked. lol. The Custom SE was really nice, the Paragon was nuts, Malibu 25 LSV was also impressive. Mastercraft wasn't even there as there are some dealer changes going on. Talking to sales guys, the premium brands are still selling very well, the budget boats are the ones taking a hit with the current market and rates. Found that really interesting. Most disappointing boat for me as the MB B52 Alpha. At what they're asking, it was very underwhelming. My wife saw a really nice pontoon with a diving board, but it was $90k.
For those of us lucky enough to live in WA, the sales tax on that sucker would be more than I bought my boat for... How's that for perspective.Quote:
Originally Posted by mgswake
On that B52, man it looks like a tree fell on the middle of it. I can get past the outside lines. Sort of like the way peeps view the MC towers.
The BU 25 LSV and the 24 MXZ were cool boats. Right up there was the two SEs from Supra with the cool factor. The local dealer brought a good representation for both Supra and Moomba. They were selling boats.
I did not spend any time looking at what the Centurion/Tige/ATX dealer was showing. Wanted to see the 23ZX.
Competition must be getting stiffer; I heard more brand bashing vs previous years from the sales peeps on Saturday.
But that is always going on when you get all the brands into one area.
About the brand bashing. I hear a lot of that. And I know people that are strictly brand loyal, not just in boats, but vehicles too. It doesn't matter how awesome of a design or feature something has. If it's not their favorite brand, they will say it's crap. The engineer in me recognizes good design regardless of who makes it. As a matter of fact, I have more respect for good designs/features that are lower or reasonably priced than I do a brand name. I don't care who made it.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJHSupra
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I don't feel a lot of brand bashing on this forum to competitive brands, in fact, I find the opposite. It feel like it's more personal preferences.Quote:
Originally Posted by HFarr
I also appreciate a well engineered design, but I do care who made it. You can have the best design in the world produced with low quality and materials. Perhaps the old "you get what you pay for".
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Don't get me wrong, I hold the quality of what is made important regardless of the features or design or mfg.
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The only guy who was really brand bashing was the saleman from Tommys. I had spoken to him about an axis last year when I had just sold my mondo. He told me when Im disappointed with my wave this year to come see him and hae will get me in a "real" surf boat. I love the looks of the axis line but the interior feels and leaves MUCH to be desired. I think the Moombas nail it in terms of interior comfort and value. And my wave was ok last year and got better and better as the season went on so I can only imagine what a bigger boat will do. The ATX and Tige boats are nice looking, as was that 26 lsv Malibu. Lots more dealers were talking about demo days and getting a chance to get out behind some of these newer offerings and seeing how they compare to my boat.