Thanks Matt , side question , on the ballast timers is there a way to get them above 15 min , that is the highest my crazy will go , have heard of Mojo's going higher but 15 min is max I can set mine to. Thanks
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
Printable View
Thanks Matt , side question , on the ballast timers is there a way to get them above 15 min , that is the highest my crazy will go , have heard of Mojo's going higher but 15 min is max I can set mine to. Thanks
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
15 is the max my 17 mojo will go. Thinking about going the g6 route....Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemarich
Was debating on that as well, already have the relay box planed out for adding pumps, but id rather spend the money on the bigger bags first. and ballast fill is the kid swim and our sit an relax time,so having high fill times doesn't bother me , at least for now :cool: and Craz not crazy, on previous postQuote:
Originally Posted by moombahighrider
You can flick the pump switch off and on again when it hits 100% to add another minute.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I went and looked and you are correct, the highest fill and drain time is 15 minutes. Stazi is correct that you can always overfill also. However, if you need to fill for more than 15 minutes, I am thinking you might want to check your impellor, or try filling with the engine on. The Jabsco pumps are impellor pumps so the speed of the pump has a lot to do with condition of impellor. The other main factor with speed is the voltage that the pump sees. When the engine is on and alternator is charging the system, the voltage of the battery should be between 12.5 and 13.5. As with any DC motor, the system will operate much faster at 13 volts, than it would at 10.5 or 11 volts. In a perfect state, those pumps should be able to pump somewhere between 90-100lbs per minute. If it is taking you over 15 minutes to fill 1100lbs, then you are only filling about 70-75lbs per minute. You might check impellor and voltage first and see if that doesn't improve the system.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stazi
As to why the timers are limited at 15 minutes, honestly I don't know. I guess we never thought we would need to fill longer than that so in our testing we didn't see that to be an issue. I guess we could go back and change software, but we are trying to make systems faster and with the 6 pumps system, you definitely don't need anywhere near 15 minutes.
Hope that helps.
I need more than 15 minutes to fill the center tank and now bag combo from the factory. My boat only has 81hrs on it so I doubt the impellers are already shot, but it could be that we often turn off the boat when we reach our start point and are filling bags so that we aren't logging hours, sitting and idling.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Faster is always better Matt, was going to integrate more bags to go under the seats, currently it is not an issue ,with 1140 rears it takes 13:40 to fill, which is about right, but if I wanted extend under the seat with bigger bags, I would need more time on timers, or faster pumps, agreed with the 6 pump wouldn't need it , but I don't have the 6 pumps system, was just weighing options, if I could get more time on timers would just do the bag upgrade until could afford more pumps, if its not an option, then will add the pumps first and do bags later. As well as Stazi , my front is set at 15min has been close to that since new, only have 70 hours on boat, and 30 plus didn't even use ballast. I did notice the bump the switch for more time, used that for the front last weekend,
I understand. That all makes sense. The factory default time for the front in 2017 with tank and bag is 11 min 30 sec. But it sounds like that is not working for you or Stazi. I am curious, do either of you have dual batteries in your boat and if so, where do you run your switch? Also, do you recharge your batteries often? I personally always run my switch in the "both" position and we keep the R&D boats batteries charged fairly often. Even if filling with engine off (which you can't do in 2018 ), it gives me a little extra battery bank to hold a slightly higher voltage. The front Craz has a 700lb tank and the bag is about 500lbs. So, if completely full it is about 1200lbs. 11min and 30sec was probably not enough time, but again if you are filling for 15min and not filling 1200lbs, then you are filling in the 80lb per minute or less range. I am just curious if maybe you are just filling at a lower voltage and that is why it is taking longer...Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemarich
Regardless, I will ask about adding more time on the ballast timers. Like I said, we are still working on the 2017 field fix so we can probably get the extra long timers added to that. Unfortunately we will probably still want to put a cap of some type on it. You have got to see our side of the liability part and if someone flipped the switch to fill, but the bag wasn't connected, we couldn't have an unlimited timer on there. That would basically sink the boat. Especially considering that the ballast fills MUCH faster than the bilge pump can keep up. ESPECIALLY if someone did upgrade to 6 pumps and still had higher timers. Currently if you had 6 pumps filling approximately 90lbs per minute and you didn't have bags, in 15 minutes you would have pumped in over 8000lbs of water in the boat. I think anyone could see where that could be an issue....
I will see what I can do...
Definitely makes sense , I fill with engine off , key on and battery switch on 1 most of the time, but even when idling its close to the same amount of time, just figured for the front as far as the water has to travel would be a little slower anyway, its the only one that seems a little slow and always has been, had timers set at 14 for the front when new , but notice not all of the time did the bow bag get full, at 15 most of the time it does , this weekend was the first it didn't and was filling while putting back to the dock, will probably just go with adding the pumps if a ballast upgrade happens. Was just a curious thought, and thought I heard of others 17 and some 16s having higher fill times. Thanks for all your input Matt
Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
This is interesting, as my dealer specifically advised never to run on both, always choose 1 or 2.
Edit: My bags seem to fill fine at the preset times. I always fill with boat on, idling forward.
And I was under the impression Jacobs ballast puppy pump rate is 88 lbs per minute , per its specification , the ballast king is 120 lbs , at 88lbs a minute you would need a min of 13.6 for 1200 lbs, 12.9 for 1140, but that's just going off the pumps specification and that is about the range we are at , except for the front , so didn't really think we had a problem ,just want to integrate another 300 lbs in for the rear with would put fill times at 16.3
Well, the battery switch and recommended switch location has been a point of controversy over the years and internally we probably all don't see it the same way. The most conservative approach is to recommend the consumer leave the switch in the 1 or 2 position. IF you do that, and IF you charge your batteries often, then IF you were to be sitting on the lake all day listening to the stereo and the battery went dead, then you could theoretically switch it to the other battery, start your engine and go merrily on your way.Quote:
Originally Posted by TJG
However, what I have found is most consumers do NOT charge their batteries often. And many consumers leave the switch in 1 position forever, never turning it off. If you leave the switch in the 1 position, then you would never be charging the 2nd battery as the alternator is completely separated from the 2nd battery. If you left it that all way all season without charging it, it is likely that if you ever did need the 2nd battery, it might be dead. In addition to that, running the engine and all accessories off 1 battery only will draw that battery down very quickly. Then discharging and charging that one battery often will then make that battery fail prematurely. Worst case is you end up having 1 battery that dies premature or doesn't hold a change very long, only to find out the other battery is also dead from not being charged.
That is why I personally always run my battery switch in both and charge often. One of the highest premature failures of deep cycle batteries is not charging them often enough or leaving them in a lower voltage situation for long times. In addition to that as I said before, if you are in the both position, then you have a true dual battery bank and it will not draw down your voltage near as quick when running ballast or stereo. In addition to that, the alternator will always be charging BOTH batteries when switch is in both. Granted, it can charge one battery at a time faster than 2, but I currently trailer my boat and I almost always end up having a decent run back to the dock at the end of the day when I am finished. Running the boat at a higher RPM increases the alternator output and seems to do a decent job of recharging the batteries. And like I said, we try and plug up the R&D boats very regularly which again tops off the charge to the batteries.
As a side note, I personally think some of the low voltage codes seen in some of the newer boats are also because most people are running the battery switch in 1 position and not charging the batteries enough. If you were to fill the ballast for 15 minutes, while listening to the stereo with key off, I could definitely see the one battery getting into the 11 volts or less range. That is when we start seeing "low voltage" and this amplifies the possibility of seeing the O2 sensor codes when you start back up. That is another reason we changed the 2018 ballast to only filling when the engine is running. While some people may not like it, with the 6 pumps running, it can drain the battery fairly quickly, especially with the battery in 1 position and key off. IF you do decide to run with the battery switch in "both" but want to sit and listen to the stereo for long times, then you can still move the switch to 1 battery only while you are sitting there. If you did that, then you would probably have a good backup battery if you run the 1 battery dead. Just remember to switch it back to both after you get started and then recharge the battery when you get home.
Hope that makes sense. Sorry about change in topic, but thought it might be helpful as some of you might want to try running the battery in the "both" switch and I hope that everyone will try and charge the batteries more often. Trust me, it will help!
Steve, you are right. The truth is specifications are not all the same. You can look some places and it says 9 gal/min, some say 88lbs/min but they usually aren't really clear at what voltage they are measuring that at. Some say 12 volts, but some companies take 12.0 as 12 volts and some say 12.5 or 12.8 as 12 volts. It really does make a huge difference at what true voltage the pump is running at. And it is not linear. Try filling the pumps sometime with the key off, then turn key on and rev the engine. You will hear a huge difference in the sound of the pump. At 13 volts and higher, that pump really cranks some water. In addition, as some have said, there is WAY more hose and pressure in the front and filling a bag by venting the tank does take longer. So, you are correct, it probably should take about 13.5 minutes to fill the 1200lbs most of the time. You probably don't have a problem with the impellors if you are taking slightly longer filling it with key off.Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemarich
And I think we can probably add another minute and a half or 2 minutes to the timers. Just don't tell my boss.... hahaha
Right on , thanks Matt , not trying to hijack the thread of or create more work load for you, my last boat I used the battery switch same as you posted, didn't have a dual bank charger so needed the boat to keep them both charged anyway, but when seeing in the manual that it said not to run in both for this boat, just stared using 1 main and 2 as a back up , I trailer every outing and plug in the handy factory dual bank charger when boat isn't in use to keep them topped off, but it is good to know that we could run the switch in the both position. Thanks again for your input.Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
Got it! For my situation, I think I'll switch to both and see how it goes. The boat stays on a lift, and the lake is less than 200 acres, so if something were to happen, it wouldn't take long till we float to shore or yell to someone to tow us in! I do like the idea of charging both batteries via the alternator. I currently switch back and forth, turning it to OFF after every outing.Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
So my 17 Mojo I have had the port surf issue happen once last week at Table Rock. We all surf starboard so that is probably why we have never seen it until now. I think we want to upgrade to the autowake 2.0 so we will probably not worry about reflashing our current software.
As far as ballast timers go, we have the tank and bow bag and we need every bit of 15 minutes to fill it. The 900s in the rear I think we had to set at about 12-13 minutes or so and we usually always fill with the engine idling. We also plug into a shore charger every time the boat is put away and we run the stock starting battery on switch position 1 and 2 6V golf cart batteries wired in series on switch position two. Interesting thing we just discovered about our batteries is that if you run on bank 1, shut down, swap to bank 2, the initial start up takes 5-6 seconds to fire the boat up. Cranking speed is normal, it just doesn't fire. It is also true for the opposite, if we run on bank 2 and shut down the swap to bank 1 it does the same thing. It's only on the initial start when swapping battery banks. All starts after that on the same bank are normal until you swap to the other bank again. Has me totally confused.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nevermind. I typed and posted before reading the rest of the thread.
Question answered.
Sorry.
I am curious about this also (battery switch setting). My salesman recommended both (setting 1 and 2). I read the manual, re-read the manual and then read it a third time to confirm it specifically says use setting 1 only and always.Quote:
Originally Posted by TJG
It talks about a redundancy configuration so you don't get stranded.
Clarification would be great for this non-engineer.
Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk
On this issue, I really don't have a clue. Like I said, I am not an electrical engineer, so I am not sure what is going on and I have personally never used 2 6V batteries like this so that is a little different. What I do know is we don't recommend that you ever turn the battery switch off when the key is on. If that is what you are doing, then that could be the problem. Also, every time you turn battery switch to off, it puts the screen basically in sleep mode and requires the normal full boot up time. Not sure if that is what you are talking about either. If you are having an issue with the boat cranking but not firing, then I am thinking maybe that is a completely different issue like the fuel pump or something else. Have you tried to turn key on, wait a few seconds and then crank? I will keep digging and see if I have heard of anything similar to this with our customer service people. Sorry about that. If it is only happening on initial start then that is definitely interesting and I would love to figure out what is going on. Thanks for feedback.Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlangston13
So, I did ask around a little and the only thing I can come up with is if you are seeing an initial lag where the engine is cranking but not firing after the boat has been sitting for a while is possibly the fuel pump regulator. To test this theory, try doing what I said before and cycle the key to on but don't crank for 4 seconds. Do that twice and then try and fire the boat. When you do that, you are manually priming the fuel pump. If it fires up immediately, then it is probably your fuel pump regulator. Once the system starts and is primed, then you probably will not have an issue the rest of the day unless you stop for another long period of time. As to how to change your fuel pump regulator, that is out of my knowledge database. I think you have to change the whole fuel pump which is located on the fuel tank (pump in tank system). I would recommend you have your dealer deal with that.... Good luck.
I have not ever turned the battery switch to off while the key or motor are on.Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
To better clarify my situation, if I spend 1 day running the boat on battery one, shut it off for the night and turn the battery switch to off, come out the next morning and turn the switch back to battery one it will fire right up no problem,
If i spend the day running on battery one, shut the boat off for the night, turn the battery switch off, come out the next morning and flip the switch to battery two then it will crank for 5-6 seconds before firing up. Cranking speed is totally normal, no slow crank issues. This scenario is also true for the inverse. If I run for a day on battery 2, shut it off and turn the battery switch to off overnight and flip it to one in the morning the same issues arises, 5-6 seconds of cranking before firing.
Its not a huge problem but my gets embarrassed by it and im not sure if there is an underlying issue that would get worse and lead to a no start issue.
Why aren't people running their boats on both banks. I don't understand this obsession with running on only one bank, doing this isolates the other bank from charging. If your batteries are setup up correctly you should have the stereo etc on one bank, and then the main power for the boat essentials on the other.
This therefore does not preclude you from running both batteries on while driving, and they should be isolated so that even if you drain your stereo bank battery dead, you should not affect the starting/main battery.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I believe most of us haven't been just because it said not to in the manual, it would cause alternator damage, the switch isn't an isolator , running it the both position would drain both batteries even if all of your stereo equipment was on one battery and the starting was on the other.
My batteries are always on a shore charger so there's not much reason to charge it while running. I keep it on bank 2 usually all the time and reserve bank 1 as a back up
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
to clarify a little , easier to do than to explain , but how I use the two banks at the moment , the added stereo equipment is connected at the battery, I chose battery 1, when the switch is placed in position 1 , now everything runs off of battery 1 , stereo and boat, and only battery 1 is charging, battery 2 is not being charged, but since nothing is connected to it at the terminals and switch is in position 1 , battery 2 is not being used for anything, it is there for a back up only, , if you put the switch into the 2 position, now battery 2 charges and everything in the boat will run off battery 2, but since amps are on battery 1 it will drain battery 1 and not charge, if I put the switch in the both position, both batteries will charge, but the switch merely connects the two banks, so even if i were to sit and only listen to music , the stereo would draw off of both banks, you will get more time out of it, but it would still drain both batteries. Now that it has been some what proven that you can run in the both position, if you were to add a 100 amp isolator into the system , you very easily could set it up so both batteries charged but your amps and stereo would still only draw off of one battery
Was reading this thread and felt like deja vu...another, simultaneous thread on this topic also happening here: https://forum.moomba.com/showthread....h-Outing/page3
Very interesting... I read that thread and some good stuff on there. thanks for the link.Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyMobius
Goose - not to completely hijack this AutoWake thread (which is awesome BTW) but I think maybe now you can see why there is some confusion on the battery setting. If I'm following along correctly, you have said you personally use the battery "1 + 2" setting all the time on the R&D boats and that is what you recommend. That being said, it contradicts what we are told in the Owner's Manual (quoted in the other thread).Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
Is the Owner's Manual being overly cautious in advising that the "1+2" setting only be used in emergency situations? What about the ground differentiation mentioned in respect to sensitive electronics onboard?
TIA for any clarification!
I think the real question is how much will it cost to upgrade to autowake 2.0?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I have asked my dealer this question and he said he will get me some numbers. Plan to do it when I next make the 6 hour drive to my dealer.Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlangston13
That is a good question and I will try to answer it as best as I can....Quote:
Originally Posted by RC_Hinojosa
The guy that wrote that sits in the office next to mine. His job is customer service. As many of you know, they deal with problems all day because most of you happy customers never call him to tell him how much you love your boat. Because of that, they sometimes come across a little on the conservative side and especially conservative when we have prior issues with items. As the boats have gotten more electronically advanced, we have had issues with sensitive electronics. Some of that is our fault, some has been vendor issues, but truth is we have also had some issues that could have been avoided IF people would have used a little more common sense to start with. Again, that is when we really get overly conservative on the owners manual side. It reminds me of the warning on the coffee cup that says the liquid inside is hot. Granted, that was probably because of a stupid lawsuit, but I think you get my point.
Anyways, IF you use 2 different style batteries that have different voltages, then you could absolutely get ground differentiation. And having ground differentiation can cause ground loops and other issues. So, part of that statement is true. However, the way it currently reads, it sounds like it will definitely happen all the time and that part is not true. As I and others have said, we highly recommend you use 2 of the exact same style batteries that are sized appropriately and keep them properly charged. If you do that, then you should not have ground differentiation and in fact running them on the both switch location would probably help keep them from having ground differentiation to start with.
Hope that helps clear up the confusion. We are actually planning to change how we word that for the 2018 owners manuals.
Hi Matt,
I know you have been troubleshooting within your explanation of AutoWake, but when do you think we can expect “advanced user part 3”?
This has been amazing information as I was ready to give up on AutoWake until this tread appeared.
Thanks Ken. I am glad this thread has helped and I will try and see if I can part 3 done very soon. I started writing these tips just off the top of my head, but after a while I started to forget what all I had said so I copied and pasted them into one large document and now I am trying to write them in order so that one day we can have one long document with all the tips so that anyone could read from start to finish and it make more logical sense. I will try and have that part 3 done no later than Monday. (But probably today. hahaha)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondo Ken
Glad this info has helped. AutoWake really is an awesome technology and while it may still not be perfect, I really think the next few years are going to be amazing as we continue to develop even better uses for it. Stay tuned....
Well, not going to get part 3 done today. I have about half of it written, but as always it is getting wordy and I am not going to finish today. Stay tuned, I will try to post it Monday. Hope everyone has a great weekend!
Goose, how is the update looking? I'm heading to Powell on Thursday morning and would love to have the update loaded on Wednesday evening before I leave for this weekend.....Quote:
Originally Posted by goose
Moombahighrider, Check your inbox... Still working on final testing...Quote:
Originally Posted by moombahighrider
Goose, any news on the firmware fix, the next installment of the guide or the odds of getting the 2018 firmware update for a 2017 boat?
I really appreciate the guide. This is the kind of stuff that should be in the owners manual and as a first time wakeboard boat owner it has helped me understand how the boat and all its components work together. It's not my first boat (traded in a 1984 SeaRay that had been in the family since 1987), but a V drive and the ballast/plate systems are all new to me.
Well, I have all good news. I have written 2 more installments that cover wakeplates and also how and when to adjust pitch and roll. I will be posting those shortly. Also, all our testing has been very promising and we have a firmware fix for any 2017 or 2018 Moomba models. In fact, it is all the same software. And that software includes all the new predictive logic and amplitude display that we included for 2018. If you have a 2017 model, then you will not have a draft sensor, so if the system doesn't see a draft sensor, then the Amplitude display is more like a graphic version of ballast gauges. If you have a 2018 model and it does have a draft sensor, then the Amplitude display works as designed for 2018. We are still experimenting with the idea of making draft sensors available for 2017. It is not as easy as plug and play because we had to change pickup locations to make the draft sensor work, so just know that right now it is not available, but at some point, it might be. If you want the new software, contact your dealer. They can contact our customer service department and we can email them a link to the software. In fact, the dealer should be able to email you the software also and you could probably reflash the software yourself. Another idea is if you use your dealer to winterize or service your boat, then that would also be a good time to get the software installed. Anyways, just wanted to let everyone know that the glitch has been corrected and for those customers with 2017 models, you will also be getting a free upgrade to the improved logic. Stay tuned for more tips posted shortly....Quote:
Originally Posted by chezdude
Random AutoWake Tip of the Day – Advanced Users (part 3 – WakePlate)
Ok, so now we understand what displacement is and how important it is. We also understand what pitch and roll is and how it shapes the wake. We understand how the inclinometer works and how important it is that it is calibrated properly. We understand how the flow plates work and when we might want to adjust them. But the last 2 adjustments we need to understand are the wakeplate and when exactly do we adjust pitch and roll. This tip is going to be specifically on the wakeplate.
One factor in wave and wake shapes is the “feel” of the wave or wake. We have discussed how sometimes a wave can be tall, or long, or have a lot of push, but one characteristic that actually has a lot to do with the push is the firmness or hardness of the wave. If a wave looks tall but feels “soft”, then typically it doesn’t have a great push. To create a more “firm” wave, think of it like compression. You basically want to displace a lot of water, but put a lot of pressure on it so that when it creates the wave, it has compressed energy. As weird as it may sound, the best way to do that is to actually fight that displacement with lift. That is where pitch adjustments and wakeplate adjustments can start to come in.
The wakeplate works under the same logic as the flow plates. When the wakeplate is down, water is forced down, pushing the boat up. When the wakeplate is up, water is NOT necessarily forced up, but with the plate in the up position, the rear of the boat can sit as deep as possible. The pitch of the boat can be adjusted several degrees by moving the plate from 100% down to 0% down (or all the way up). The factory default when cruise is on is 25% down. I guess in another tip I can talk about smartplate, but the short version of that is when the boat comes to a stop the plate goes to 100% down to help accelerate. Once the boat reaches a “cross-over” point, then the plate goes to 25%. We chose 25% because for the average user running factory ballast or less, a lower wakeplate number allows the back of the boat to sit as deep as possible allowing the boat to displace a good wave. In fact, for many people, you might even want to run the wakeplate at 0%. However, for some people running a LOT of extra ballast, they want to run extra weight in the rear and then “compress” that water with a slightly lower wakeplate of maybe 30-40%. But keep in mind that all of this works together. If you run too much weight in the back and then run the wakeplate down to 50-60%, then it will greatly reduce pitch. If you don’t change your AutoWake pitch values, then the system might actually drain water out of the front bag because the wakeplate would be fighting the effects of not adding weight in the front to offset the extra weight in the back. Draining water always reduces displacement and as we said in an earlier tip, displacement is the most critical component, so we want to minimize draining as much as possible. In this case, most users would not want to use the wakeplate to lower pitch, but instead use front ballast to affect pitch. That is why most users that add more weight in the rear, ALSO add weight in the front. That is basically doing the same thing of compressing the water. The extra weight in the rear pulls the back down. The extra weight in the front, pulls the rear up basically compressing all the displaced water.
One additional point that should be mentioned about the wakeplate is if you adjust the wakeplate too far down, it can drastically affect the wave. Once the plate moves past about 50% deflection, then it does more than just create lift. It actually starts to interfere with the roostertail coming from the prop. This deflection of the roostertail can drastically affect the wave shape and creation. To see how that works, fill your ballast to factory defaults, allow pitch and roll to adjust correctly, then once the wave has formed, move the wakeplate to 100% down. It is very likely that this will make the wave unsurfable.
The learning point here again is to understand what the wakeplate is doing, and experiment with it to see how you can maximize wave shape and length once you become an advanced user. As I said before, most users will typically want to maximize displacement by running the wakeplate between 0-25 and allow the boat to sit as deep as possible. However, if you are running really high amounts of displacement, then you might find that fine tuning the plate down a little could give you a more firm wave or possibly even a slightly longer wave.
Random AutoWake Tip of the Day – Advanced Users (part 4 – When to adjust Pitch and Roll)
The last adjustment you need to understand is when to adjust pitch and roll. Unfortunately many people that don’t understand AutoWake immediately adjust pitch and roll. In the classic example of if 1 is good, 2 must be better, many people have adjusted pitch and or roll to extreme amounts before learning how the system works or even trying the factory defaults. Again, the thought process is if -3 roll is good, then -6 roll has to be better. Or if 9 pitch is good, then 11 pitch has to make the wave taller. Hopefully by now everyone understands that these are NOT good ideas. As we have discussed many times, only wave shape is dictated by pitch and roll. Wave size or push is always dictated by displacement. So, the answer to the original question is you should only adjust pitch and roll if you truly want to maximize ballast IF you are running more displacement than factory ballast. So the next question is how or when would you do that?
Let’s say you want to experiment with more displacement than factory ballast. You have already experimented with factory defaults, experimented with flow plates and understand how they work, experimented with the wakeplate and understand how that works. You have tried different boards, different speeds, and now you want to try and maximize what the boat can do. So, you get a couple extra friends, a couple extra fat sacks and head to the lake. My first recommendation would be to try and add any additional weight as centrally located as possible. Granted, you might surf on the port side all the time and the logical thought would be to add all additional weight on the port side, but we have learned better than that and we understand that overall displacement is more important than just displacing water on one side of the boat. So, if you have a couple extra fat sacks, fill them in the middle of the cockpit. Depending on the size and shape, you might want to fill one in the middle and the other closer to the walkthrough area at the dash. Remember, if you add all the additional weight in the back, then you will need something in the front, or you will be drastically changing the pitch. Next thing is fill all factory ballast to 100%. Once this is all done, then check the “Amplitude” display on the dash if you are in a 2018 model. If you have maxed the “Amplitude” display, then first make sure you have not exceeded the capacity of the boat. Obviously, that would be a big safety issue. Once you have made sure you have NOT exceeded the capacity of the boat, then try and run the boat with factory flow settings, wakeplate settings, and keep it in manual mode. Once you get the surf speed, check the shape of the wave. If the wave is not clean, then you could adjust passengers to the side you are surfing on. If the wave is very smooth with not a good defined “zone”, then try moving passengers to the non surf side. If the wave is rather short, then try moving passengers to the bow of the boat. If the wave seems extra long, then try moving passengers to the rear of the boat. By experimenting with different passenger locations in manual mode, then you can see what the maximum potential is of the wave with maximum displacement. Ok, you might be confused at this point because what does that have to do with AutoWake, but stay tuned…
The next thing you should do is hit the left button and engage AutoWake. As soon as it comes on, note the actual pitch and roll of the boat. With your extra ballast and optimized seating locations, you can now see what your actual pitch and roll are. If you had a good wave, then I would imagine that pitch and roll would likely be close to factory defaults. You might find that the pitch or roll is actually a degree or more off. As we have said many times, displacement trumps everything. With enough displacement, you can actually get good results even if the pitch is at 8 degrees or 11 degress. With enough displacement, you can actually get good results on port side even if the roll is at -2 degress or -4 degrees. So, for that day, you can now see where you are with pitch and roll. If you want to try and maintain that for that day, then you can now adjust pitch and roll to the new settings and as long as you have the extra ballast, then you should have a consistent wave throughout the day as you change riders with minimum ballast draining. Keep in mind that as passengers move, it will obviously have to drain some ballast to keep the pitch and roll, but this would be one example of when you might want to adjust pitch and roll from factory settings. One very important thing to remember is just because those pitch and roll values work that day, does NOT mean the same settings will be optimal when you reduce displacement. In fact, it will very likely NOT work as good and let me try and explain that.......
Let’s say you did the “experimenting” with maximum ballast on a Saturday. On that day, you had an extra large crew of 10 passengers and you even had an extra fat sack in the cockpit area. When you moved all the weight around and filled all the factory ballast, you actually found on that day that the optimal pitch was at 10.5 degrees. In fact, it could never get less than that because with all the passengers in the rear of the boat, the front ballast was always at 100% just trying to maintain 10.5 degrees. With all that displacement, you still had a very surfable wave and in fact you really loved it because it had a great amount of push. In fact, several of the passengers learned to surf for the first time without the rope and now you are convinced that 10.5 pitch is the “Magic” number. The roll was actually close to -3 so you just left the roll alone. You had such a great experience that you wanted to do the same thing on Sunday. However, on Sunday, you only have 3 passengers and the person with the extra fat sack was not one of them. So on this day, you only have factory ballast and 3 passengers. The truth is you just will NOT get the same results on Sunday as you had on Saturday. When you get to the lake, the “Amplitude” display will explain that. On Saturday, the “Amplitude” display was maxed out. On Sunday, the “Amplitude” display will be at about 50%. This is when you really need to change pitch and roll BACK to factory default. If you don’t, this is what will happen. When you turn AutoWake on, the roll will get achieved first, then it will try and fill ballast to reach the “AMP” setting of 100% of ballast in the rear. It will get there. Let’s say you have all passengers sitting perfect and both rear ballast get to 100%. So, the roll is achieved and rear ballast is achieved. However, the front ballast will never fill all the way up, because if you left the pitch at 10.5 degrees, then it will actually need to add more weight in the rear to get to the extra high pitch and the only thing the system can do is NOT fill the front or drain the front to try and get to 10.5 degrees. So, in this case, it is likely that you will end up with 30%, or maybe less ballast in the front. As I have described before, this is a huge mistake, because now you are actually losing about 700lbs displacement to try and get to a “MAGIC” number of 10.5 pitch. If you change the pitch back to default of 9, then the front would continue to fill and in fact, you might get to 100% ballast in the front. In this case, the less pitch actually makes the wave bigger because it increases displacement. Remember the no replacement for displacement??
Confused now?? This is a prime example of why it is very important to understand how all the components work in the overall system. Let’s say you are a new user and you went out on Saturday as we described. Let’s say you just left all factory defaults and just operated the boat normally. What would likely have happened is the AutoWake system would have filled all the ballast to 100% in the rear. With all the passengers and ballast in the rear, then it would likely have filled all the ballast in the front to 100% to try and get to 9 degree pitch. It is very likely once it got to 100%, it would have given you a popup that said front ballast maxed, unable to achieve 9 degrees pitch, move passengers to front. This would have been a little annoying, but if you wouldn’t have done anything, the popup would go away and you would have ended up running most of the day at 10.5 degrees pitch with popups coming on every time you took off. While the popups would have been annoying, it would at least be telling you what was going on, and the best part is the performance would still have been there and you would have had a great day. Now on Sunday, when you went out with less displacement, you would still get maximum factory ballast, because you never adjusted from factory defaults. On Sunday, you would NOT get popups, because with only 3 passengers, the system can easily achieve the factory settings for pitch and roll. On Sunday, you would not have the same push as Saturday, but you would have more push than if you had left the 10.5 pitch settings. And the best part is by not adjusting settings, you can actually see how the only variable between Saturday and Sunday was the “Amplitude” display and now you see exactly what we mean by how important displacement is.
One example where you might actually want to adjust roll is if you want to play with “wave transfers”. The Flow plates can generally make about a 4 degree change from port surfing to stbd surfing without moving passengers. So, if you want to do transfers without moving passengers, then you might adjust port surfing to a -1 degree roll and stbd surfing to a 3 degree roll. If you do that, then you will probably want to make sure that you have plenty of displacement so that the wave is still good and surfable with these new reduced roll amounts. Like I said before, with enough displacement, it will overcome the slightly lower roll amounts so you should be good. However, if you only have a couple passengers in the boat and factory ballast, then this might not be possible. If that is the case, then during transfers, you might have to have one passenger also move in the boat to help with the roll change between port surfing and stbd surfing.
So, after reading this, you might think I am suggesting that you don’t adjust pitch and roll very often. If so, then you are getting my point. Unless you really know what you are doing, and you have a good knowledge about how you are making adjustments and how they relate to the displacement in the boat that day, then you can actually get less performance if you adjust pitch and roll too much. If you really must adjust pitch and roll, just always remember that high pitch or roll numbers can cause the system to drain front ballast or rear ballast to try and achieve those numbers. While that might be what you want to do to personalize the wave shape or length, just always keep in mind that push and size will always be more affected by displacement than pitch or roll.