2022 Software

would explain why mine didn't have ....as I asked the dealer to try and upgrade mine in the past.

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Originally Posted by TXSurf4

Yours looks like it is in heat shrink. I assume when you opt for the maps they cut the heat shrink off to attach the USB as mine didn’t have any heat shrink on it. Glad you were able to find it!


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Thanks...Tried it out today...nice improvements on the auto wake operation and cleaned up the splash-over on the goofy wave.

Do you know what about the settings has cleaned up the goofy wave? Are you running in AutoWake with the default settings? If so, have the defaults been adjusted in the update?

Im not sure what was done to clean it up, I have flow 3 so maybe something with the Yaw tab. I used auto wake all day, it worked perfectly. I changed the settings to 9.5pitch and +4deg roll for goofy, 9.5, -1.0 for normal.

I asked my dealer about this update and they don't know anything about it. Has it been provided to all dealers? Is there a maintenance bulletin, etc. that I can reference to point them in the right direction?

I just saw the new auto wake features for 2022 on the Moomba website, and read this thread from the start. Not aware of any mtce bulletin.

Really good feature is that on the advanced screen it will tell you where to move people/weight with auto-wake inactive (ballast pump on) to achieve your pre-set pitch/roll.

Has anyone successfully done this on a 21 mojo yet?

Just got back from trying to do this - had everything ready to go thinking it would be a 5 minute software flash.. and for the life of me couldn't find the USB cable... crawled under there for a good while.. does anyone have a picture of where it's at on a Mojo? I haven't seen one yet, but it appears to be waaaay back to the side and far up.

Unfortunately, in order to really get in there and look good, it looks like I have to unbolt and move the Subwoofer box and all that crap that's under there..... Just didn't feel like spending all day on that project.. but zero chance of getting back there unless I take it all out. figured I'd just have the dealer do it..

Dealers response was "I don't have an answer yet, but from what I understand the 2022 has new features and so it won't work"... I don't believe that to be true.... (no fault of the dealer, they are generally great, just don't think he was informed yet).. But, I'm assuming this is a software update from 21 to 22. per posts here, should be backward compatible.

Really bummed / frustrated out about this.. was looking forward to seeing if it helps - I've been having issues with wonky surf tabs not resetting after shutting it off, switching riders or after doing transfers.

Just to echo what Mobius22 said previously in this thread, we at Skier’s Choice HIGHLY recommend that software updates be performed by dealers only. Especially with the 2022 software, there is much more to it than a simple software reflash. Certain components on your will not work correctly and you are at a risk of voiding your factory warranty. Please reach out to your dealers for specific information.


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I can certainly understand that Jon. When I've talked to my dealer, the feedback that I get is that they don't have anything. Should they be knowledgeable of this capability/service? If they don't know that a software update is available, or don't have it, how do they know how to check/do the additional items to make sure everything is okay beyond the flash?

The improvements seem to be really useful, hence all the interest from the forum to get this done ourselves.

So.... can we work on then putting out some maintenance bulletins on it and start educating the dealers on the options / process? Like I said, I reached out and they seemed to know less than what is even offered here.. ? Trust me, I'd rather drop it off and have them do the work also..

I have been a die hard SC fan for years now.. but if I'm being totally honest, I'm really getting tired of chasing around fixes for my brand new boat all summer..

at this rate, it will be next season before I get to try out the new software I guess.

Have your dealer contact our Customer Service Department or their rep. Dealers have certainly been made aware of the new software.


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Originally Posted by Dank

So.... can we work on then putting out some maintenance bulletins on it and start educating the dealers on the options / process? Like I said, I reached out and they seemed to know less than what is even offered here.. ? Trust me, I'd rather drop it off and have them do the work also..

I have been a die hard SC fan for years now.. but if I'm being totally honest, I'm really getting tired of chasing around fixes for my brand new boat all summer..

at this rate, it will be next season before I get to try out the new software I guess.

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This boils down to dealer quality and training.

Ultimately SC is responsible to make sure dealers are trained and qualified to diagnose and service their products.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dank

So.... can we work on then putting out some maintenance bulletins on it and start educating the dealers on the options / process? Like I said, I reached out and they seemed to know less than what is even offered here.. ? Trust me, I'd rather drop it off and have them do the work also..

I have been a die hard SC fan for years now.. but if I'm being totally honest, I'm really getting tired of chasing around fixes for my brand new boat all summer..

at this rate, it will be next season before I get to try out the new software I guess.

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Look back in this thread and you will see pics of the USB connection. I know that other's with 2021s have removed the sub to get to it.

I spoke with sales at my dealer and they didn’t know. Spoke with service and he was sure that he could get it and have a quick install. I’m pretty close to my dealer, so I plan to bring it there next week.

For those that do choose to do it on their own, I did hunt for the USB cable today. I removed the sub and found it. Honestly, probably easiest way is access behind the screen. 4 screws and you’re there. Mine was black in a Makai.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...3be9f42bb0.jpg


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Did mine on a 2021 Mojo. As others have said the hardest part was finding the USB..I removed the subwoofer, that was pretty easy. Pics earlier in the thread of what mine looked like.

The location of the USB on mine looks to be the same as Ironman10’s pic, but very difficult to find if coming in from the front seat. Looks like the screen removal might be easier.

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Originally Posted by Mobius22

Just a heads up, we recommend that all software updates be done by your dealer. There's more to it than just updating the software, and it's dependent on many other factors to work correctly. You run the risk of bricking your boat by not allowing a certified tech to handle it. Basically, we do not recommend doing this yourself.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jon

Just to echo what Mobius22 said previously in this thread, we at Skier’s Choice HIGHLY recommend that software updates be performed by dealers only. Especially with the 2022 software, there is much more to it than a simple software reflash. Certain components on your will not work correctly and you are at a risk of voiding your factory warranty. Please reach out to your dealers for specific information.


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Would either of you mind explaining what “more”there is to the update besides just updating the software that requires a dealer to perform it? Or what components will not work correctly if we do it our selves?

I think most of us here want to do the right thing and if having the dealer perform this is really needed to do and complete the job than most people will end up going that route. That being said for most of us this will be a pretty big inconvenience for something we could probably do ourselves, not to mention most of the dealers are booked out pretty far and have little to no knowledge about this. So a little more explanation might help to clarify why we need the dealer to perform this. (Most of us are pretty technician people and geek out on this stuff anyways so we appreciate the knowledge) TIA


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by TXSurf4

Would either of you mind explaining what “more”there is to the update besides just updating the software that requires a dealer to perform it? Or what components will not work correctly if we do it our selves?

I think most of us here want to do the right thing and if having the dealer perform this is really needed to do and complete the job than most people will end up going that route. That being said for most of us this will be a pretty big inconvenience for something we could probably do ourselves, not to mention most of the dealers are booked out pretty far and have little to no knowledge about this. So a little more explanation might help to clarify why we need the dealer to perform this. (Most of us are pretty technician people and geek out on this stuff anyways so we appreciate the knowledge) TIA


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As someone who works in an “engine” industry and programs components (ECUs, HMIs, etc) for customers often I can tell you the Skiers Choice guys position on this is 100% correct and in no way do they owe you an explanation on why.

You might be capable of plugging in a USB and properly updating the software, but 99% of boat owners are not capable of the most simple of tasks like this and it will certainly lead to bricking and other issues.

That being said, perhaps they should develop a “auto update” process similar to an iPhone that can be performed when connecting your boat to WiFi.

I'm surprised at all the software fix is out there. It's a QA issue to make sure the right software gets installed on the right boat and performs the way it is supposed to. This is very important during the warrenty period. After that, your on your own anyway.

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Originally Posted by brad460

As someone who works in an “engine” industry and programs components (ECUs, HMIs, etc) for customers often I can tell you the Skiers Choice guys position on this is 100% correct and in no way do they owe you an explanation on why.

You might be capable of plugging in a USB and properly updating the software, but 99% of boat owners are not capable of the most simple of tasks like this and it will certainly lead to bricking and other issues.

That being said, perhaps they should develop a “auto update” process similar to an iPhone that can be performed when connecting your boat to WiFi.

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No one said that they “owed” us anything I just asked if they “would mind explaining” it to us. I figured on a forum where we discuss a lot of technical issues a simple explanation of what all we could expect if and when we take our boat to our dealer to have this done isn’t asking to much.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by zabooda

I'm surprised at all the software fix is out there. It's a QA issue to make sure the right software gets installed on the right boat and performs the way it is supposed to. This is very important during the warrenty period. After that, your on your own anyway.

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It is out there every year [emoji2371] I have done it to my boat each year.


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Just go to your dealer and explain you installed a bootleg copy and now you want to know what it does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TXSurf4

No one said that they “owed” us anything I just asked if they “would mind explaining” it to us. I figured on a forum where we discuss a lot of technical issues a simple explanation of what all we could expect if and when we take our boat to our dealer to have this done isn’t asking to much.


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Sorry- I came off a bit harsh there…my apologies.

Anyways, in my experience bricking is the number one issue when reprogramming an HMI (which is what Skiers Choice mentioned above).

Anyone getting the following error while trying to engage Cruise on the new 2022 Software? It pops up and the boat won't get up to speed. You disable cruise, pop it back on....then it seems to work.

https://i.imgur.com/E92Irb3.jpg

It seems to happen when I don't ease into pulling up a rider more frequently. I have a paddlewheel setup.

Thanks!

hey guys! Its me again, Matt Brown. I have been trying to keep up with this chain and I have noticed there are lots of confusion about some of the new 2022 Moomba software features. So to try and help, I will go back to my old "tips of the day" where hopefully I can give you guys some info in easily digestible sections. So, without further ado....

Random tips of the day (2022 Moomba software) - paddlewheel fault

In the post above, you will notice one of the new features is a new "paddlewheel fault". We call it that on our development pages in the software. As you can see, when this "fault" occurs, it shows up on the screen as a small icon on the bottom right that reads "Cruise disabled - No vessel speed". The reason we added this logic is because for 2022 ZeroOff is standard and the paddlewheel is optional. In the past, if you had ZeroOff then you still had paddlewheel as a backup if you lost GPS. However, without paddlewheel backup, we had to add logic in case you lost GPS. While very unlikely, if you did lose vessel speed and cruise was engaged, it might be possible for the engine to increase rpm to try and maintain a vessel speed that was not present. So, the way the new logic works is it is constantly monitoring rpm and vessel speed. The default settings are if the engine is on, and the RPM is going over 1800 and if the system sees a 0.0 speed for at least 50 milliseconds, then the system will turn off cruise, give you the popup and reduce RPM to 80% of the RPM that the engine is currently running. However, there are a few times when you might need to adjust these settings. For example, if you are running paddlewheel only, then it might be possible for the system to "lose signal" for 50 ms. That is a very fast period. If you have this popup, you might want to go into the development pages and adjust that setting from 50ms to 150 ms or maybe longer. Every paddlewheel is different but if you have to adjust it higher than 250ms (1/4 of a second), then you might need to replace your paddlewheel. Another situation that might not need adjustment, but rather education is if you turn on engine and immediately try to accelerate. The GPS puck is powered from the ignition circuit. So, it takes about 30 seconds from the time you turn key on for the GPS puck to lock in on speed. If you turn key on and immediately accelerate, it is possible that the system might not lock in GPS speed and in that case, it would not engage cruise because it sees 0.0. In that case, watching the screen can show you that. If you accelerate and the speed shows 0.0, then you are definitely going to get that popup. In that case, you might just need to wait a few seconds longer before you accelerate. The truth is you wouldn't want cruise to engage like that anyways. Not sure if you have ever seen this, but we have had that feedback before of the boat accelerates, then cruise takes over and the engine slows way down. That can happen for the same reason. If you accelerate with no speed, then speed kicks in, it can make the cruise feel very awkward for a little bit.

Ok, hope that helps. If you are not familiar with the "development pages", then ask your dealer for help. They can adjust these settings for you if necessary. In the next few days I will try to write up similar tips for "Leak detection" and "Autofill". These seem to be very confusing for some people but I think once you guys understand it, you will love these new features. Hope you guys and girls are having a great summer!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goose

hey guys! Its me again, Matt Brown. I have been trying to keep up with this chain and I have noticed there are lots of confusion about some of the new 2022 Moomba software features. So to try and help, I will go back to my old "tips of the day" where hopefully I can give you guys some info in easily digestible sections. So, without further ado....

Random tips of the day (2022 Moomba software) - paddlewheel fault

In the post above, you will notice one of the new features is a new "paddlewheel fault". We call it that on our development pages in the software. As you can see, when this "fault" occurs, it shows up on the screen as a small icon on the bottom right that reads "Cruise disabled - No vessel speed". The reason we added this logic is because for 2022 ZeroOff is standard and the paddlewheel is optional. In the past, if you had ZeroOff then you still had paddlewheel as a backup if you lost GPS. However, without paddlewheel backup, we had to add logic in case you lost GPS. While very unlikely, if you did lose vessel speed and cruise was engaged, it might be possible for the engine to increase rpm to try and maintain a vessel speed that was not present. So, the way the new logic works is it is constantly monitoring rpm and vessel speed. The default settings are if the engine is on, and the RPM is going over 1800 and if the system sees a 0.0 speed for at least 50 milliseconds, then the system will turn off cruise, give you the popup and reduce RPM to 80% of the RPM that the engine is currently running. However, there are a few times when you might need to adjust these settings. For example, if you are running paddlewheel only, then it might be possible for the system to "lose signal" for 50 ms. That is a very fast period. If you have this popup, you might want to go into the development pages and adjust that setting from 50ms to 150 ms or maybe longer. Every paddlewheel is different but if you have to adjust it higher than 250ms (1/4 of a second), then you might need to replace your paddlewheel. Another situation that might not need adjustment, but rather education is if you turn on engine and immediately try to accelerate. The GPS puck is powered from the ignition circuit. So, it takes about 30 seconds from the time you turn key on for the GPS puck to lock in on speed. If you turn key on and immediately accelerate, it is possible that the system might not lock in GPS speed and in that case, it would not engage cruise because it sees 0.0. In that case, watching the screen can show you that. If you accelerate and the speed shows 0.0, then you are definitely going to get that popup. In that case, you might just need to wait a few seconds longer before you accelerate. The truth is you wouldn't want cruise to engage like that anyways. Not sure if you have ever seen this, but we have had that feedback before of the boat accelerates, then cruise takes over and the engine slows way down. That can happen for the same reason. If you accelerate with no speed, then speed kicks in, it can make the cruise feel very awkward for a little bit.

Ok, hope that helps. If you are not familiar with the "development pages", then ask your dealer for help. They can adjust these settings for you if necessary. In the next few days I will try to write up similar tips for "Leak detection" and "Autofill". These seem to be very confusing for some people but I think once you guys understand it, you will love these new features. Hope you guys and girls are having a great summer!!

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Wow man! Those are some great explanations. More to come on Leak detection and Autofill? I await to read it!!

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Hi All,

Are we to the point where dealers are ready / willing to install the 2022 Software on 2021 Boats? Green Light?

Getting conflicting info.. . I don't want to do it myself (for all the reasons mentioned in previous posts).. but also don't want to drive it all the way to the dealer to get the "blank stare" ... :)

..It's getting closer to the end of the season and I need to decide if we are going to wait until the end of the year.. or try to get it done now and test it out before the end of the season (which I really want to do).

Been having issues with my tabs not resetting, or otherwise somehow "losing" settings, even if I haven't changed anything. Hoping to have that looked at and get the software installed at the same time (who knows, maybe it will help).

Thanks in advance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dank

Hi All,

Are we to the point where dealers are ready / willing to install the 2022 Software on 2021 Boats? Green Light?

Getting conflicting info.. . I don't want to do it myself (for all the reasons mentioned in previous posts).. but also don't want to drive it all the way to the dealer to get the "blank stare" ... :)

..It's getting closer to the end of the season and I need to decide if we are going to wait until the end of the year.. or try to get it done now and test it out before the end of the season (which I really want to do).

Been having issues with my tabs not resetting, or otherwise somehow "losing" settings, even if I haven't changed anything. Hoping to have that looked at and get the software installed at the same time (who knows, maybe it will help).

Thanks in advance.

---

Call the dealer, tell them moomba has a new software firmware for your boat and you would like them to contact skiers choice and download the new firmware. Ask them to let you know when they have downloaded it and you will bring the boat in to be updated. I just do my own, if it goes wrong play dumb..lol..It really is plug it in, turn boat off and on my boat 4inch screen I press and hold the center button to update.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goose

hey guys! Its me again, Matt Brown. I have been trying to keep up with this chain and I have noticed there are lots of confusion about some of the new 2022 Moomba software features. So to try and help, I will go back to my old "tips of the day" where hopefully I can give you guys some info in easily digestible sections. So, without further ado....

Random tips of the day (2022 Moomba software) - paddlewheel fault

In the post above, you will notice one of the new features is a new "paddlewheel fault". We call it that on our development pages in the software. As you can see, when this "fault" occurs, it shows up on the screen as a small icon on the bottom right that reads "Cruise disabled - No vessel speed". The reason we added this logic is because for 2022 ZeroOff is standard and the paddlewheel is optional. In the past, if you had ZeroOff then you still had paddlewheel as a backup if you lost GPS. However, without paddlewheel backup, we had to add logic in case you lost GPS. While very unlikely, if you did lose vessel speed and cruise was engaged, it might be possible for the engine to increase rpm to try and maintain a vessel speed that was not present. So, the way the new logic works is it is constantly monitoring rpm and vessel speed. The default settings are if the engine is on, and the RPM is going over 1800 and if the system sees a 0.0 speed for at least 50 milliseconds, then the system will turn off cruise, give you the popup and reduce RPM to 80% of the RPM that the engine is currently running. However, there are a few times when you might need to adjust these settings. For example, if you are running paddlewheel only, then it might be possible for the system to "lose signal" for 50 ms. That is a very fast period. If you have this popup, you might want to go into the development pages and adjust that setting from 50ms to 150 ms or maybe longer. Every paddlewheel is different but if you have to adjust it higher than 250ms (1/4 of a second), then you might need to replace your paddlewheel. Another situation that might not need adjustment, but rather education is if you turn on engine and immediately try to accelerate. The GPS puck is powered from the ignition circuit. So, it takes about 30 seconds from the time you turn key on for the GPS puck to lock in on speed. If you turn key on and immediately accelerate, it is possible that the system might not lock in GPS speed and in that case, it would not engage cruise because it sees 0.0. In that case, watching the screen can show you that. If you accelerate and the speed shows 0.0, then you are definitely going to get that popup. In that case, you might just need to wait a few seconds longer before you accelerate. The truth is you wouldn't want cruise to engage like that anyways. Not sure if you have ever seen this, but we have had that feedback before of the boat accelerates, then cruise takes over and the engine slows way down. That can happen for the same reason. If you accelerate with no speed, then speed kicks in, it can make the cruise feel very awkward for a little bit.

Ok, hope that helps. If you are not familiar with the "development pages", then ask your dealer for help. They can adjust these settings for you if necessary. In the next few days I will try to write up similar tips for "Leak detection" and "Autofill". These seem to be very confusing for some people but I think once you guys understand it, you will love these new features. Hope you guys and girls are having a great summer!!

---

So helpful Matt!! Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dank

Hi All,

Are we to the point where dealers are ready / willing to install the 2022 Software on 2021 Boats? Green Light?

Getting conflicting info.. . I don't want to do it myself (for all the reasons mentioned in previous posts).. but also don't want to drive it all the way to the dealer to get the "blank stare" ... :)

..It's getting closer to the end of the season and I need to decide if we are going to wait until the end of the year.. or try to get it done now and test it out before the end of the season (which I really want to do).

Been having issues with my tabs not resetting, or otherwise somehow "losing" settings, even if I haven't changed anything. Hoping to have that looked at and get the software installed at the same time (who knows, maybe it will help).

Thanks in advance.

---

Dealers “not in the know” or “pretending not to know” b/c they do not have time?

I heard about it reading a Wake9 post about a ballast video he is releasing about weight placement.

The Wake9 boat has been running the new software on their 2021. Robert was telling people to contact their dealers. I know he would not post this unless he had the green light from SC.

SC people are on this thread.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by goose

hey guys! Its me again, Matt Brown. I have been trying to keep up with this chain and I have noticed there are lots of confusion about some of the new 2022 Moomba software features. So to try and help, I will go back to my old "tips of the day" where hopefully I can give you guys some info in easily digestible sections. So, without further ado....

Random tips of the day (2022 Moomba software) - paddlewheel fault

In the post above, you will notice one of the new features is a new "paddlewheel fault". We call it that on our development pages in the software. As you can see, when this "fault" occurs, it shows up on the screen as a small icon on the bottom right that reads "Cruise disabled - No vessel speed". The reason we added this logic is because for 2022 ZeroOff is standard and the paddlewheel is optional. In the past, if you had ZeroOff then you still had paddlewheel as a backup if you lost GPS. However, without paddlewheel backup, we had to add logic in case you lost GPS. While very unlikely, if you did lose vessel speed and cruise was engaged, it might be possible for the engine to increase rpm to try and maintain a vessel speed that was not present. So, the way the new logic works is it is constantly monitoring rpm and vessel speed. The default settings are if the engine is on, and the RPM is going over 1800 and if the system sees a 0.0 speed for at least 50 milliseconds, then the system will turn off cruise, give you the popup and reduce RPM to 80% of the RPM that the engine is currently running. However, there are a few times when you might need to adjust these settings. For example, if you are running paddlewheel only, then it might be possible for the system to "lose signal" for 50 ms. That is a very fast period. If you have this popup, you might want to go into the development pages and adjust that setting from 50ms to 150 ms or maybe longer. Every paddlewheel is different but if you have to adjust it higher than 250ms (1/4 of a second), then you might need to replace your paddlewheel. Another situation that might not need adjustment, but rather education is if you turn on engine and immediately try to accelerate. The GPS puck is powered from the ignition circuit. So, it takes about 30 seconds from the time you turn key on for the GPS puck to lock in on speed. If you turn key on and immediately accelerate, it is possible that the system might not lock in GPS speed and in that case, it would not engage cruise because it sees 0.0. In that case, watching the screen can show you that. If you accelerate and the speed shows 0.0, then you are definitely going to get that popup. In that case, you might just need to wait a few seconds longer before you accelerate. The truth is you wouldn't want cruise to engage like that anyways. Not sure if you have ever seen this, but we have had that feedback before of the boat accelerates, then cruise takes over and the engine slows way down. That can happen for the same reason. If you accelerate with no speed, then speed kicks in, it can make the cruise feel very awkward for a little bit.

Ok, hope that helps. If you are not familiar with the "development pages", then ask your dealer for help. They can adjust these settings for you if necessary. In the next few days I will try to write up similar tips for "Leak detection" and "Autofill". These seem to be very confusing for some people but I think once you guys understand it, you will love these new features. Hope you guys and girls are having a great summer!!

---

Always appreciate the education Matt! Knowing what the system is doing and why helps to maximize the fun.


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Hey guys! Glad to hear that this info helps. As an fyi, we are also doing an education campaign with our dealers as we speak on this software. In their defense, the technology that we are developing on this software is light years ahead of what most of the people in the industry are doing. Most of our competitors do NOT have many sensors or software that are this complicated. Most do not allow you to reprogram older boats with new software. And most competitors do NOT allow you to adjust anything in your software. Maybe we are doing it wrong and maybe it is too complicated, but we don't really follow the norm of most of our competitors. At Moomba we have always really only focused on us and I don't see that changing.

As to the complexity of the software, I live and breathe this stuff, but for many dealers, this is just one of many thousands of things they have to keep up with and keep in mind that most dealers also carry multiple brands and type of boats. Unless the dealers really have dedicated sales men or technical experts on OUR brand, this information is pretty overwhelming and that is why some of you are getting the blank stares when you ask them about it. The truth is many people even in our own company also do not understand this stuff so that is why we are trying to help get everyone on the same page. It might take a while, but I ask that you be patient with our dealers and we will all get there eventually. Some maybe a little faster than others.

Also keep in mind that the truth is the majority of people that follow this forum are really more like the "1 percenters" that really want to know EVERYTHING there is about their boat. That is why the majority of you follow this forum, ask questions and help each other. I would go out on a limp and say that a high percentage of the people that post on here are engineers or technically minded people that love getting into the "weeds" when it comes to details and love knowing how this stuff works. That is also why I am trying to educate you guys as early as possible. I have told many of you this before in private messages, but I look at you guys like our brand ambassadors on this forum and in the market. If 10 of you guys or girls really understand this about as good as I do, then we now have 11 people (10 + me for those not following, hehehe) that understand it and that helps everyone understand it better. Again, the truth is several of you really do know more about some of the technical sides of your boats better than some of our dealers. But again, maybe you can help them learn as well. Not sure if that makes sense, but I see this like the old "pyramid schemes" but instead of selling stuff, we are educating everyone. I teach several of you. You teach several more. And eventually everyone understands it.

I guess to sum this one up it goes like this. I know some of you might be frustrated with some of the confusion from dealers or us. Can we load software, can we not? How come my dealer doesn't understand more about it? How come I am getting conflicting info. My request is please be patient. There is a lot of new info that has just recently been introduced. The world these days is stupid crazy. Our dealers are really struggling to get parts, take care of customers and deliver the boats that people have been waiting for all summer. I think the whole world needs a little break and more patience. But we will get through this. In the meantime, try and enjoy your family time on your boat. I will try to help with the software explanations. And it will get better. Or at least we all hope it does.... I should be posting the leak detection info shortly...

Thank you for all you do! Hope I wasn't coming across as being impatient. We appreciate all that you (and SC) do for us!!!

LOVE the new technology and that you are keeping us all on the cutting edge.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by goose

Hey guys! Glad to hear that this info helps. As an fyi, we are also doing an education campaign with our dealers as we speak on this software. In their defense, the technology that we are developing on this software is light years ahead of what most of the people in the industry are doing. Most of our competitors do NOT have many sensors or software that are this complicated. Most do not allow you to reprogram older boats with new software. And most competitors do NOT allow you to adjust anything in your software. Maybe we are doing it wrong and maybe it is too complicated, but we don't really follow the norm of most of our competitors. At Moomba we have always really only focused on us and I don't see that changing.

As to the complexity of the software, I live and breathe this stuff, but for many dealers, this is just one of many thousands of things they have to keep up with and keep in mind that most dealers also carry multiple brands and type of boats. Unless the dealers really have dedicated sales men or technical experts on OUR brand, this information is pretty overwhelming and that is why some of you are getting the blank stares when you ask them about it. The truth is many people even in our own company also do not understand this stuff so that is why we are trying to help get everyone on the same page. It might take a while, but I ask that you be patient with our dealers and we will all get there eventually. Some maybe a little faster than others.

Also keep in mind that the truth is the majority of people that follow this forum are really more like the "1 percenters" that really want to know EVERYTHING there is about their boat. That is why the majority of you follow this forum, ask questions and help each other. I would go out on a limp and say that a high percentage of the people that post on here are engineers or technically minded people that love getting into the "weeds" when it comes to details and love knowing how this stuff works. That is also why I am trying to educate you guys as early as possible. I have told many of you this before in private messages, but I look at you guys like our brand ambassadors on this forum and in the market. If 10 of you guys or girls really understand this about as good as I do, then we now have 11 people (10 + me for those not following, hehehe) that understand it and that helps everyone understand it better. Again, the truth is several of you really do know more about some of the technical sides of your boats better than some of our dealers. But again, maybe you can help them learn as well. Not sure if that makes sense, but I see this like the old "pyramid schemes" but instead of selling stuff, we are educating everyone. I teach several of you. You teach several more. And eventually everyone understands it.

I guess to sum this one up it goes like this. I know some of you might be frustrated with some of the confusion from dealers or us. Can we load software, can we not? How come my dealer doesn't understand more about it? How come I am getting conflicting info. My request is please be patient. There is a lot of new info that has just recently been introduced. The world these days is stupid crazy. Our dealers are really struggling to get parts, take care of customers and deliver the boats that people have been waiting for all summer. I think the whole world needs a little break and more patience. But we will get through this. In the meantime, try and enjoy your family time on your boat. I will try to help with the software explanations. And it will get better. Or at least we all hope it does.... I should be posting the leak detection info shortly...

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Originally Posted by Dank

Thank you for all you do! Hope I wasn't coming across as being impatient. We appreciate all that you (and SC) do for us!!!

LOVE the new technology and that you are keeping us all on the cutting edge.

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Hey Dank! My post was not intended or directed to anyone specific and I did NOT think you were being impatient. And honestly I probably got on my soap box a little too much. Sometimes I have a problem of writing too much and maybe my Covid frustrations came out a little on my post. haha. So I apologize about that. Bottom line is we are trying to help everyone get on the same page. And in the mean time I will try to keep you guys posted on what all the new stuff is doing. As you can probably tell, we are pretty excited about it!

Random tips of the day – Leak detection

Another new feature in the 2022 Moomba software is what we call “leak detection”. As the name implies, this feature is to help determine if possible leaks are happening in the ballast system. But it actually does more than that. Let me explain a little more how it works. All the 2022 Moomba models now have a full length tube style ballast sensor on the rear ballast compartments. The tube is located in the rear of the boat and as the ballast fills in the bag, the water level rises in the tube sensor. The sensor then can tell exactly how much water is in the bag. “Leak detection” is mainly focused on the “filling” side of the system. We will discuss “Autofill” later and that really focuses more on the keeping the level at the same spot. As the system fills, the “Leak detection” feature is looking at 2 things. We call it “threshold” and “trigger”. The “threshold” is the ballast gauge % where the sensor starts looking for the “trigger”. That probably sounds confusing, so let’s try the default settings. The default settings are “threshold” of 50 and “trigger” of 1. So, when the ballast timers reach 50% of the fill time, the sensor looks to make sure it sees 1% of water in the tube. If it sees water, then it continues to fill with no problem. If it doesn’t, then it sends a popup saying possible leak in the ballast system. The first question might be why is the threshold so high? On some models, the tube sensor is actually located about 8 inches higher than the bottom of the bag and on some models the bags are over 100 inches long. So, it takes quite a while for the water in the bag to reach the bottom of the sensor. Some models the sensor is at the bottom of the bag, but for default reasons we made it for worst case.

Ok, that is how the software works. But lets dive into possible issues or times when you might see an “incorrect” leak detection warning. As I said, the software is actually looking at the percentage of the fill TIME. Unfortunately, even with all the sensors and logic, we still have to use timers for the ballast. As I said, some sensors are higher than the bag, some bags are not simple designs and have sections that raise higher than others, so just relying on the sensors would lead to very confusing ballast gauges. So, we use timers for the actual gauge number that is broadcast on the screen. A few years ago we introduced “ballast timer Autocalibration” so I will not discuss that here, but we are constantly working to try and get the timers accurate and we are constantly watching how you use your system and the timers automatically change based on that. However, if you reset the software and do not change the timers, then you will very likely get a leak detection warning on some models. The reason is because the default fill time on software reboot is 5 min 30 sec. Most models require closer to 7 minutes and if you happen to have a 3 pump system it might take over 10 minutes. So, if the boat really requires 3 minutes and 30 seconds before the sensor sees water, but your timers are set for 5 min 30 sec, then at 2 min 45 sec (50% of 5:30), it is likely that the sensor does not see water and will give the leak detection popup. In this case, if you just get your timers accurate, then that will probably correct the problem.

Another time that you might get the popup is if your ballast pump impellors are showing wear. Again, if you had the software working properly the “ballast timer Autocalibration” should see the increase time needed and auto update your timers, but again, if you reload software and don’t get time right, then you could get popup. However, this might also be a good thing because if you get this popup quite a bit, then it might mean you do need to change your impellors or something is not working properly with the filling side of your system. Hence one of the reasons why we added this software. If you are seeing this case, you can also get with your dealer and on the development pages, you can actually watch this software logic work. You can see the timers AND the sensors at the same time. Watching that can help you understand better how your system is actually performing and can either help you adjust ballast timers or threshold points or trigger points. Again, if none of that makes sense, get with your dealer.

Obviously another reason why you might get this popup is if you really do have a leak. While we have made big improvements on the bags and fittings, it is possible to have issues with bags or fittings. Again, if you had a leaking bag or fitting, then the sensor would not see water at the correct time in the sensor and you might get this popup. Again, if you do get this popup, simply check the bags and bilge area. If you have excess water, then you should investigate for possible leaks. If you don’t have water in the bilge, then check timers.

The last issue you might have is if you are loading 2022 software on a boat that does not have tube style sensors in the rear. Some of the older models only had flow sensors. In that case, you would obviously not see water in the sensor because the sensor is not present. In that case, you would need to get your dealers help to access the development page and you would want to adjust your threshold to 100. If you did that, it should basically turn this logic off and you should not have the popup anymore.

Ok, hope that helps. I am sure there is more to this logic, but I wanted to give you guys more info into how it works and why. We are also sharing this information again with our dealers so that hopefully if you do have questions, they have this same information and everyone can be on the same page.

I will try and send the Autofill side before the weekend.

Can you tell us what year and models have the tube sensors vs. the flow? Would a 21 Kaiyen? I'm guessing it does based on how it currently operates and what the sensor looks like behind the panel in the lockers.
Thanks

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Originally Posted by goose

For 2022 ZeroOff is standard and the paddlewheel is optional. In the past, if you had ZeroOff then you still had paddlewheel as a backup if you lost GPS. However, without paddlewheel backup, we had to add logic in case you lost GPS.

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Hi Matt. First of all, thank you for providing detailed descriptions for all of us to benefit from. I'm eagerly awaiting the production of a '22 Mojo later this month (I'll actually be touring the factory on the 30th). It will be good to have all of this info as I dive into learning the new boat. One of your points gave me pause around the ZeroOff and paddle wheel. With the builder not yet updated and all of the changes 2021 to 2022 this is a little fuzzy. I submitted a build sheet to my dealer pre-2022 announcement and we'd selected the ZeroOff upgrade. In reading your note, is there an option to add the paddle wheel to ZeroOff for back up or is this a ZeroOff deduct?

I've requested a detailed build sheet from my dealer in addition to a list of options I'm currently not getting just to make sure I'm not missing anything else. Already figured out that I needed to add on chill tech and the optional sound deadening (on top of what is standard). Not knocking anyone here but it would be nice to know what was available in a model year prior to having to place your order... I know demand is super high right now and dealers are already taking orders for 23's!

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Originally Posted by uniwarking

Not knocking anyone here but it would be nice to know what was available in a model year prior to having to place your order... I know demand is super high right now and dealers are already taking orders for 23's!

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Your dealer did not know or show you want he selected in the computer?


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Originally Posted by MJHSupra

Your dealer did not know or show you want he selected in the computer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I got a detailed invoice when I put in a deposit which was before 2022 stuff was announced. I’ve asked for a few changes along the way as announcements came out (and even more as I learned from people on the forums, like the optional sound deadening). I’m just wanting to make sure I know what I’m getting and nothing was missed.


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Originally Posted by brad460

Sorry- I came off a bit harsh there…my apologies.

Anyways, in my experience bricking is the number one issue when reprogramming an HMI (which is what Skiers Choice mentioned above).

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No worries man. I am not sensitive I know we are all on here for the love of boats.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by goose

Random tips of the day – Leak detection

Another new feature in the 2022 Moomba software is what we call “leak detection”. As the name implies, this feature is to help determine if possible leaks are happening in the ballast system. But it actually does more than that. Let me explain a little more how it works. All the 2022 Moomba models now have a full length tube style ballast sensor on the rear ballast compartments. The tube is located in the rear of the boat and as the ballast fills in the bag, the water level rises in the tube sensor. The sensor then can tell exactly how much water is in the bag. “Leak detection” is mainly focused on the “filling” side of the system. We will discuss “Autofill” later and that really focuses more on the keeping the level at the same spot. As the system fills, the “Leak detection” feature is looking at 2 things. We call it “threshold” and “trigger”. The “threshold” is the ballast gauge % where the sensor starts looking for the “trigger”. That probably sounds confusing, so let’s try the default settings. The default settings are “threshold” of 50 and “trigger” of 1. So, when the ballast timers reach 50% of the fill time, the sensor looks to make sure it sees 1% of water in the tube. If it sees water, then it continues to fill with no problem. If it doesn’t, then it sends a popup saying possible leak in the ballast system. The first question might be why is the threshold so high? On some models, the tube sensor is actually located about 8 inches higher than the bottom of the bag and on some models the bags are over 100 inches long. So, it takes quite a while for the water in the bag to reach the bottom of the sensor. Some models the sensor is at the bottom of the bag, but for default reasons we made it for worst case.

Ok, that is how the software works. But lets dive into possible issues or times when you might see an “incorrect” leak detection warning. As I said, the software is actually looking at the percentage of the fill TIME. Unfortunately, even with all the sensors and logic, we still have to use timers for the ballast. As I said, some sensors are higher than the bag, some bags are not simple designs and have sections that raise higher than others, so just relying on the sensors would lead to very confusing ballast gauges. So, we use timers for the actual gauge number that is broadcast on the screen. A few years ago we introduced “ballast timer Autocalibration” so I will not discuss that here, but we are constantly working to try and get the timers accurate and we are constantly watching how you use your system and the timers automatically change based on that. However, if you reset the software and do not change the timers, then you will very likely get a leak detection warning on some models. The reason is because the default fill time on software reboot is 5 min 30 sec. Most models require closer to 7 minutes and if you happen to have a 3 pump system it might take over 10 minutes. So, if the boat really requires 3 minutes and 30 seconds before the sensor sees water, but your timers are set for 5 min 30 sec, then at 2 min 45 sec (50% of 5:30), it is likely that the sensor does not see water and will give the leak detection popup. In this case, if you just get your timers accurate, then that will probably correct the problem.

Another time that you might get the popup is if your ballast pump impellors are showing wear. Again, if you had the software working properly the “ballast timer Autocalibration” should see the increase time needed and auto update your timers, but again, if you reload software and don’t get time right, then you could get popup. However, this might also be a good thing because if you get this popup quite a bit, then it might mean you do need to change your impellors or something is not working properly with the filling side of your system. Hence one of the reasons why we added this software. If you are seeing this case, you can also get with your dealer and on the development pages, you can actually watch this software logic work. You can see the timers AND the sensors at the same time. Watching that can help you understand better how your system is actually performing and can either help you adjust ballast timers or threshold points or trigger points. Again, if none of that makes sense, get with your dealer.

Obviously another reason why you might get this popup is if you really do have a leak. While we have made big improvements on the bags and fittings, it is possible to have issues with bags or fittings. Again, if you had a leaking bag or fitting, then the sensor would not see water at the correct time in the sensor and you might get this popup. Again, if you do get this popup, simply check the bags and bilge area. If you have excess water, then you should investigate for possible leaks. If you don’t have water in the bilge, then check timers.

The last issue you might have is if you are loading 2022 software on a boat that does not have tube style sensors in the rear. Some of the older models only had flow sensors. In that case, you would obviously not see water in the sensor because the sensor is not present. In that case, you would need to get your dealers help to access the development page and you would want to adjust your threshold to 100. If you did that, it should basically turn this logic off and you should not have the popup anymore.

Ok, hope that helps. I am sure there is more to this logic, but I wanted to give you guys more info into how it works and why. We are also sharing this information again with our dealers so that hopefully if you do have questions, they have this same information and everyone can be on the same page.

I will try and send the Autofill side before the weekend.

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Glad to have all the technical info Matt, Thanks!


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