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We agree here- Him and Tige didnt have the most gracious of splits. I wouldnt expect him to go out of his way to hype them anymore. But I will say, he wanted one at the event bad. We just couldnt swing it in time. So is it really on him?Quote:
Originally Posted by jmvotto
I had no idea he was Supra sponsored. Just enjoyed his videos
Pretty cool gig.
BTW, the popcorn [emoji897] is amazing and this thread delivers!!!
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We aim to pleaseQuote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
You bet—although I would submit there’s not much heavy hitting here. It’s all stuff that comes up continually over and over. People are mistaken to think there is a magical silver bullet to making a big ass surf wave. Hull designs, surf systems.....they’re cool, but unfortunately they’re not THAT meaningful. 80% of the factors are non-manipulable laws of physics. The rest is frosting, convenience, style points. Hulls need to sink. The bigger the hull the more WEIGHT it needs to sink. A pound is a pound. Buoyancy is buoyancy. No way around this.Quote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
We can have a heavy hull, we can have a light hull, we can have lots of ballast or a medium amount, we can use a wedge....yadda yadda yadda but they all need to converge at roughly the same end point to perform comparatively.
The point about a surf boat shootout actually having all the heavy hitters is valid if it carries the “best surfboats of 2019” title. I get that. And agree!
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FWIW. If our dealer didnt drop SC over issues i would be in an SL or SE , both my previous boats ran flawlessly.
That being said. I did not bring up malibu , some else did I just mentioned other top tier surf boats were missing from the event.
I think if your going to sell a 150 k boat and demo it with lead , its a tough sale at the boat show . “ you want a great wave , get 1k in lead toss in the bow and your good to go plus sign a check for 150k”
Ive been to lots of surf demos and festvals and the amount of lead on those boats just seam like overkill. The resale has about as much to do with the wave as GPH , thats why i brought it up . Has no business in the convesation and can be debated until we are blue in the face .
The wedge is an extra tool if needed. Dont always run it it helps shape the wave .
They are all great boats in there own right . Just disappointed with the line up and shocked with the amount of lead being used.
I concur........Yum YumQuote:
Originally Posted by larry_arizona
I call BS on the wedge “if needed” usage. The 2017 23LSV we run weekly is useless without the wedge deployed, for one, and is a hot mess for storage. And, it needs a 750 triangle bow sack on the seats in order to kick off a great wave. Personally? I would use lead.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmvotto
Heres an option then, have the dealer outfit the boat (before you take delivery) with a comparative amount of water weight and there you have your desired setup. Would be cheap, easy, clean.
Maybe they should offer more formal additional PnP options. To your point, I think. But the truth is: lead is so so so much better than water for reaching max performance weight. IMHO. Using all water sucks.
Did I dream it? You indeed did bring up Malibu passively. I guessed and you confirmed the mystery brand that “has it all” if I recall? Ballin waves and plenty of storage.....or something like that.
Maybe that was the other fella who hates lead.
Lead is great if you ask me. And everyone I surf with.
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JmV.... the thing with lead is that it mimics people. If you want to take that Makai or SE or pick whatever big boat you want and fill it to max occupancy, then your wave will be monster every time. The problem is, most want these huge boats and only have a crew of 3-6, so you have to do something to reach full potential. And that's really what all the talk is about, a boat reaching max potential. Now if you had 14 adults in a boat, and it still needed 1000 more pounds, then that would be an issue, imo. Plus, most people can't ride that great anyway, including myself, sorry.. truth hurts.
Yes, it was you. Or you were hacked?
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I am tracking Knox! Makes sense. Lead is very handy. Easy to move. Instant results. On the fly.Quote:
Originally Posted by KnoxMojo
I personally hold the opinion that the crappier you are as a surfer—the more a big powerful wave benefits you. Roll into a milder shape, but keep the power. Makes surfing as a newbie easier.
There is literally no scenario in my surfing life where a less-powerful-than-max wave makes sense. Maybe on a little kid....but no adult.
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That being said—I wanna surf a foil this year. That could be a place for a smaller wave!
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I had fun on the wake foil in Florida. Rode it long line, it would take me a while before I was anywhere good enough to let go like in the videos, lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
All I can say, good for him on his gig - whatever he worked out with SC. I would be spewing the same SC jargon.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmvotto
Pick up your new SL from the factory. Make some videos. Make some friends cruising and surfing across the country.
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Yeah he’s a good dude. And decently objective actually, all things considered.Quote:
Originally Posted by MJHSupra
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I said i didnt bring up malibu. You guessed it , and typed it I used your BOSS PB surf event as sarcasm. But whatever .Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
Yes storage i wish the bow had storage ,hot mess your opinion , plenty for my family of 7 and all their gear . Wedge is only necesary if you dont have the crew and want a super steep wave .
The 25 and the mxz 24 have plenty of storage
Find it ironic that you rollall week in an lsv 23 :o
I use lead as well. Just not 1000 lbs. ,the dealer stated he drops 1k of his SE in the bow never moves it If he gets abig crew. Overkill in my opinion but i bet it throws a banging ( wait BOSS) wave with 18 peeps and 6k in ballast .Quote:
Originally Posted by KnoxMojo
Your right. Most of us arent any good i dont see any of our stats in the cwsa rankings
And if you don’t think you brought up Malibu, then I am at a loss. Who are you Bill Clinton?Quote:
Originally Posted by jmvotto
Naw man, I surf 3-4 days a week. My boat, the 23LSV, RZX3, SL550. We simply rotate driving between the boats. Very nice mix.
Lotsa time in that boat. To be in the same ballpark as the rest of the fleet—needs wedge and the 750 sack on the bow seats. For sure 100%. Otherwise it’s not on par or close. With that setup, she’s nice. 4-5 200# dudes in boat. 400 motor doesn’t love the load, but we love the wave.
Surfed randomly with Tarzan/Wakesurf Orlando a few weeks back—dude coaches Parker Payne. Found nearly same exact setup. Except 600 sack in bow, same wedge setting. Not that that proves anything, but he rolled a fat wave too. It was a blast.
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Maybe you should use 1000#. It’s pretty fun. Do you like to have fun?Quote:
Originally Posted by jmvotto
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The 25 also has no bow storage and bags in the lockers.....so.....a lot like the 23. Room for a couple more bumpers I guess.
That’s not class leading by any stretch.
I am not familiar with the 24MXZ layout.
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I roll 1k in lead 400 mid ship and 600 in the bow, it doesn’t move. I run 650 pnp in the rear. I do this because of two reasons. I go out with a light crew 1-2 religiously and I don’t want this boat to ever lose a demo. Which it doesn’t.
In your neck of the woods this may not be the case or any of your concern but the name of the game for most consumers in my area? “It’s about the biggest wave, if this boat has the biggest wave I’m in”
Couple that with some of the big factory ballasted boats out, I have to even the playing field.
I do that with Pnp and lead. And I don’t lose. Ever.
I leave lots of lead in the Makai too. It does not give 2 sh!ts. Huge boat, huge freeboard, and the 450. I basically bring it up to the equivalent weight of an empty SE with a little lead in it. And you could store a football team’s equipment in that boat. Insane caverns of storage.Quote:
Originally Posted by elevatedconcept
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I haven't been into boating as long as a lot of people on this forum...but what I will say is that every boat i have been on requires additional weight from stock...even the top end boats! If you think you can get a boat and run 100% stock...you are fooling yourself for a variety of reasons(aftermarket opportunity, but primarily weight restrictions)
Talking of the SL with hands tied...what I will say is the following:
1) The Garcia family has that goofy wave dialed!
2) Part of running it stock with autowake was proving a point on how awesome that wave is stock!
Personally if I were to buy any boat out there...it would be a 2018 or newer Supra SL...the finish coupled with the surf system technology, wave quality, and boat size is so darn good for me personally...that I would definitely make it happen if money wasn't an object in the equation!
As far as the boards go...some thoughts on boards i tried:
1) LibTech's - Not bad boards....but they are indestructible!
2) Zombie Boards were FAST!
3) I ended up buy a Soulcraft Secret Weapon after the event that I have yet to try...but should tell you what I thought of that board!
4) Tried a selection of BluSurf, Varials, HyperLite, Victoria Skims, etc....but what stuck out to me were the Zombie and Soulcraft boards!
Good post. Good feedback!Quote:
Originally Posted by jcredible
The Weapon is wildly popular for a reason!
Also heard good things of Zombie Next Level.
Handbuilt Chaos customs are freaking sick too. Not sure Nick sent out those—I didn’t see any in vid. I saw what appeared to be a couple bamboo Sixers which are also sweet wips.
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Hull shape and surf systems aren’t THAT meaningful? Man a guess a lot of really smart people wasted a ton of time developing CFD.Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
They can’t do it without the weight. Read it in context and it makes sense. They all need to displace a boatload of water first. Pun intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by muehlcj
Give me a suckgate or 3, a cement truck, and a life jacket and let’s go make a Bayliner throw a sweet surf wave. Well and maybe a helmet and an extra outboard motor.
To further illustrate the point.
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Here’s another way to maybe show what I mean: with every manufacturer using roughly similar surf tabs (Malibu aside) and with widely variable hull shapes—is it a giant coincidence that they all make a clean wave once slammed/leaned and otherwise finessed into the right setup?Quote:
Originally Posted by muehlcj
How do these pre-surfing-craze hull designs even manage to make a wave?
Here’s another one: how is GSA able to work well on basically any hull you bolt it to?
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I don’t disagree that weight is an overwhelmed factor. However if you have a hull a and a surf system that doesn’t work in concert with your weight for equation then you are adding more weight to overcome your Hull and SS.Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
I think what JMV is saying is work smarter not harder.
That said I’m the first person to say something if every square inch of a boat isn’t full of ballast and lead. Kind of the pot calling the kettle black here - hahahahaha
Except it’s really pretty linear—work smarter not harder doesn’t really play. There’s no way to fool the water into making a massive wave. You have to move it first, so it “springs back” and makes your wave. Move more, get more. Hull depth is the main factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by muehlcj
Your main statement was that adding 1000# to a factory system should make a tsunami. Take the PB Makai as an example. It had 1000# in it. But it STILL was 1200# LIGHTER than the Fi.....
That’s not going to be a fair wave comparison. Give that Makai the missing 1200# and then you have a fair contest.
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Consider designing a hull and surf system that doesn’t create as much lift that needs to be counteracted by weight - smarter not harderQuote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
So you are saying someone should drop six figures on a Moomba then they have to add 2000 + lbs of lead to maximize the wave? I’m a loyal Moomba customer and I say no thanks l.
Too bad the event did not have a method where the riders could post their comments on some of these boards. Like you did.Quote:
Originally Posted by jcredible
How many different boards did you get to ride - 6 to 8? If I recall, each rider gets 2 morning and 2 afternoon sets for 2 days? And 8 different boats to try.
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Ok! Why don’t you create that system. You would be revolutionary! The hull and surf system that sinks itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by muehlcj
You aren’t wanting to hear the physics. Yes it really would like to have 2000 pounds more. Do it with people. Do it with water. Do it with lead. It’s your choice.
What about a boat that is exactly the same length weighing 1200 pounds less to you doesn’t make sense? It has absolutely nothing to do with the shape of the boat or the type of tabs.
If you want your Makai to behave like an FI25, then fill it with water bags like the Fi is filled. Every compartment: WATER. No storage. Then you have what you’re asking for.
Not sure how else to communicate it.
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I think buoyancy is a good thing for boats....I sure like it!
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Actually, someone does have a device that does that. The patented Wedge. Except is creates a bunch of drag and costs lost of fuel to do its job. And it’s patented.
I will do the weight.
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A boat is only rated to carry so much weight. Be it from water,lead or people.
It would not be wise to exceed this rating.
This argument is similar to buying a performance car and then modding it to add horsepower/Torque.
It’s human nature to modify and want more.
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Dude, your making my point , the line up for the PB best surf boats for 2019, subpar , only one 25 ft boat , a wake tractor ( really ) not and apples to apples comparison and lots of lead to try and equal, but as you stated doesn't matter how much lead I throw in a 23 ft boat wont compare to a 25 foot boat .Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
yes bigger boats make bigger waves.
find in the early thread where I typed Malibu , you could have guessed sanger or pavati but YOU didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
Bill Clinton , really , grow up.
one of two devices that doesn't fight the ballast just saying . other NSSQuote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce
don't need it 300 on top of the hard tank under the cushions is just fine.
roll with me and I will show you fun.
Wedge is not a surf device.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmvotto
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I know I wasn't talking about wedge. tabs do gates don'tQuote:
Originally Posted by dakota4ce