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Started the ballast upgrade today, took out my GI system and drilled new thru hulls and vent holes.
Attachment 26623
For those of you who removed your old sprinkler setup did you worry about removing the wiring or just left it in place? Seems like a pain to cut all those zip ties and get it all out of that corrugated plastic running to the helm.
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I just left it there, it wasn't connected to anything so there was no power going to any of it. I saw no reason to go through the effort of removing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by crr1876
I left mine there as well for the first year I think. The next year I was doing some work under the dash replacing a speedo and I just decided to clean things up and take it all out. It was kind of a pain but not too bad. Just leave it for now I would say
Did this last fall. I took the old wiring out, but I’m OCD. It’s not much of a chore when you already have the floor up and you have to rewire the switches anyway.
Won’t matter much either way. Just have to cut some zip ties and replace them when the new wires are in.
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Thanks guys. I traced all the wiring and realized I have to cut the zip ties anyway to pull out the old 3/4” fill line and make way for 1” fill line!
So a couple questions I came across today.
I did not want to hard wire all three reversible pumps to the battery as I thought that seemed messy and already don’t like how many wires are in the port storage. So instead I bought this:
Attachment 26624
I currently have this under the helm and was planning to swap them
Attachment 26625
Attachment 26626
Anybody see any problem with this? Not sure what all is wired on there currently, will have to figure that out. The red wire that runs from my Perko common stud to that current distribution bar has this circuit breaker in it
Attachment 26627
I realize each of these reversible pumps draws 15-20 amps and I have 3 so could anyone recommend an upgrade?? Honestly the guy I spoke to at WakeMAKERS told me an in-line fuse before that blue sea distribution block was overkill and not necessary. Any advice would be appreciated.
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That breaker is only 50 amps so it may trip on pump startup if you kick all pumps on at the same time. Just turn each pump on separately, not all at once. I've used that fuse box before, since you already have the power terminal I'd just use it and return the fuse panel. Save yourself some work, also you may want to use breakers instead of fuses. They don't fit in that fuse box. I have these, they reset automatically. :)
https://www.amazon.com/Bussmann-CB22...2Bbreaker&th=1
When I did my pump upgrade years ago, I bought a new blue-sea buss dual bar under the helm - not the same one you purchased. I used it for the 3 pumps and my LEDs. Picked a good size wire gauge and used a circuit breaker.
Battery > Surface Mount Circuit Breaker (not sure of the size) > Buss Bar
Buss Bar > Inline Fuse (30a) > Switches.
I think the pumps have a spike of 20-30a when they are first turned-on.
You are adding a potential of 60 amps more draw to the helm BUS circuit. Swapping from a BUS bar to that blue sea system fuse block does nothing to address this. Anyway you slice it, you are still adding up to 60A more draw.Quote:
Originally Posted by crr1876
So are you suggesting I swap out the 45amp circuit breaker for a larger 100amp like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by MLA
Attachment 26628
Would I need to go with a thicker gauge wire as well? My electrical knowledge is terrible please forgive me.
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So do you have those in an in-line fuse like what comes with the kit? Curious how your wiring runs from the battery to your switch if you don’t mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by parrothd
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You need to take the entire circuit into account. Even with the blue sea fuse box installed, the entire system is still fed with the same size cabling but now with a potential of 60 amp more draw. Those factor BUS bars are fine, its the supply cables you need to account for.Quote:
Originally Posted by crr1876
Those blue sea fuse boxes are great, I use them all the time, but making this swap does not solve your real issue here. I know I did not give you a specific answer, sorry, theres a couple puzzle pieces missing for me to do that, but youve now got some inf that will allow you to actually solve this on your own.
My first 2 installs I added new fuse boxes, the last install I used the wakemakers kit with the inline fuse. Much easier. I replaced the standard fuses with breakers(amazon link). On startup each pump can draw 20-30amps, depending how long they've been idle, the longer the more they stick. This will blow most fuses. I use the fuse breakers because they reset automatically. If you have other accessories(heater?) on that bus bar you can overload the 50amp breaker. If you make sure to turn each pump on separately you should be fine. Everyone once in a while I hit them all at once and pop the 50amp breaker. You may want to upgrade the breaker and wiring to 100amp.Quote:
Originally Posted by crr1876
This is the key. A fuse/breaker protects the wiring and connected components. You can't just increase the breaker/fuse size and call it a day without also being sure that all wiring and components are capable of carrying that full current. You could try to live with the 50A overall limit like parrothd described which might just (barely) work, otherwise you need some bigger cable (there's a lot of factors: I'd use 2 AWG, but 4 AWG is probably OK too). Now, if you are running new cable, I'd probably just leave the existing setup alone unless there was a compelling reason to change it...Quote:
Originally Posted by parrothd
I'm pretty sure I have the same 50amp breaker but I have 4 pumps. I can run them all at the same time with the heater, but it'll pop if I start them all at the same time.
So your current install with the kit do you just have all 3 wired directly on one of your batteries, then the in-line fuse breaker? I have all the wire and terminals to do it that way, just being stubborn and wanted the clean install look of a distribution block but realizing between new cable, new circuit breaker looking at 100-120 bucks and more work haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by parrothd
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On my boat I have it you describe, but on my brother in laws boat the my most recent install we went with direct to the battery and used everything from the kit, fuses and all. Works fine to, if you go that route just make sure to secure the wires to the battery, you don't want them being pulled off when someone stores stuff near the battery.Quote:
Originally Posted by crr1876
Just wanted to update you guys, I’m like 90% done with my install just wish the weather would cooperate better. Here are some pics of my dash before and after.
Before
Attachment 26700
Attachment 26701
After
Attachment 26702
Attachment 26703
Gotta give credit to parrothd for the idea on switch location and moving accessories around.
Couple of finishing touch questions, what did you guys use to tie up your vent lines as high as possible in the gunnels? Also did you secure your fill/drain lines with cable clamps? I was thinking of using these.
Attachment 26704
Thanks guys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parrothd
This is how did mine, I used the kit and wired all three directly to one of my batteries and used the inline fuses that came in the kit. I have had it installed for at least 2 or 3 yrs without any problems. I did move my switches from down low where the original switches were to up higher to the side of the drivers seat.
Looks great!Quote:
Originally Posted by crr1876
Right now I have 3 reversibles - one on the IBS and the other 2 on 1100s. I put the stock GIII on the ski locker bag and moved the old 400s under the side seats.
I’m thinking abt adding 2 reversibles for my 1100s and plumbing the second pump on each side with a wye to the old 400s I have under the side seats (rather than buy enzos and have 2 pumps into each) and pull out the GIII (hooking the ski locker bag to the IBS).
So... has anyone wired the rocker switch to run 2 reversibles? I know the draw is too much for one switch but just haven’t figured out how a relay would work. I’m trying to avoid using a second set of switches. THX!
I'm not running 2 per pump but I am using relays. It's pretty easy to setup and wouldn't be hard at all to connect multiple relays up in parallel like you're thinking. The only thing to consider is if you really want 5 pumps running at one time. I certainly wouldn't want to do that on battery and the stock alternator may not be enough so you'd be somewhere in between...Quote:
Originally Posted by Leebo
Good point on the alternator, I’m pretty sure I need to do that - probably another thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by gregski
On the relays, are they before the switch or after? I don’t think the switch can handle the load (maybe an upgraded switch?) so I’m trying to understand how to wire relays after the reversible switch. Thx!
The toggle switches would drive the relay coil and the relay would switch the actual power lines to the pumps. The coil on the automotive style relay is commonly considered to be between 50-200 ohms, so you're talking 0.3A worst case scenario and you'll need 2 per pump to handle reversing - so figure 0.6A per pump (could be as low as 0.12A). Those rocker switches are rated for much more (20A?)
Ok so the whole time I’m trying to figure out how to wire multiple relays after the switch in a way that allows the polarity to be reversed on a regular automotive relay
I think you’re telling me to use a polarity reversing relay. Something like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by gregski
http://www.drivetrainamerica.com/buy...sing-solenoid/
That would make the wiring substantially easier. Is that what you mean?
Thx!
A relay like this...
Attachment 26770
Attachment 26771
Yes, like bsharer's pic and you use two of them to achieve the reversibility. Like this: https://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk...1&d=1314287250
That's not my picture so no guarantees on the contact numbering but I'd guess it's right. The relay you posted would probably work too but it's probably not ignition protected. Be sure to get ignition protected relays (expolosion proof/"marine") if it's anywhere in the bilge/engine bay and frankly, I wouldn't use non-marine relays on my boat anywhere. These are sparky components just looking for some stray fuel vapor.
Perfect- that’s the diagram I was looking for. Thx!!!
On my current GI setup I have the IBS piggy backing off of the ski locker. I had to put in ball valves to prevent over filling the ski locker (the panel wouldn't close) and also to stop the IBS from leaking back into the ski locker. Has anyone else run into this problem? Planning the GIII upgrade in the next few weeks and debating doing a piggy back for the IBS or just keeping the GI pump for the ski locker and a reversible on the IBS.