''Quote:
Originally Posted by 501
I cant ride at 18... 21 is the minimum for me.
It's ideal for beginners thou. Softer crashes.
Printable View
''Quote:
Originally Posted by 501
I cant ride at 18... 21 is the minimum for me.
It's ideal for beginners thou. Softer crashes.
Yep, gotta agree with goose that 18 mph for an 8-11 year old is plenty fast. My girls like to practice slides & surface 360's around 10mph then ride & jump the wake (not W2W yet) at 10-20 mph. They weigh under 80 lbs, so I guess it's all relative.Quote:
Originally Posted by 501
In the LSV you need more ballast above about 20 as the wake starts to flatten out due to speed. With just the center full at 18-20 you get a good newby wake and the falls aren't too bad. Faster than that and you have to fill everything and it HURTS.
LMAO..lawdog. I always say..the best thing I like about girls (and boats), is variety!! lol
That is when I adjust the wakeplate.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneboats
i ride about 22 and the falls don't hurt THAT bad unless you face plant.
lawdog looks lie there is an 2008 obv in your neck of the woods for sale up in kzoo, mi at a great price. may be worth a tezt drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawdog
OK so I called the local Moomba dealer as well as the dealer I bought my boat from and asked them about the LSV and the fact that I might be looking to downgrade. Boy was I surprised when they told me that an LSV with the same options as my XLV is going for 3K-4K MORE than what I bought my XLV brand new for. I could have sworn we have been in a recession for the past 2 years. I couldn't believe it. It about knocked my socks off when they told me the Outback V is selling for 2K less than what I paid for my XLV. To top it all off the amount they said my boat would be on trade was even more ridiculous. Seriously I cant believe boat prices for Moomba have gone up that much.
My dealer gave me a similar story when I was getting ready to buy. What he really meant was that he'd really like me to pay full list price and to please not check with any other dealers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawdog
So, I recommend that you present yourself as a new customer to some other dealer and see if the prices match.
I tried the shop around method prior to buying my OBV, the dealers I talked to in Florida wouldn't even talk to me about a current model year boat, they said they were under restrictions from SC on selling current model years to customers that were not part of the dealers franchise area... they said they would dicker on any older Moombas they had in stock...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Brantford
Perhaps I was mislead... wouldn't be the first time ;-)
Here I'll throw out the numbers that were given to me. For a new 2011 XLV with the same features as my 2009 XLV the list price was around 62K-65K. New LSV same features 53K-55K. New Outback V same features 48K-51K. APPROXIMATE trade-in for my boat 38K. I bought mine in 2009 for 51K with the list price at 57K. I did speak to a couple different dealers. I was just surprised they went up that much in less than two years. With all that being said I did this over the phone and not in person. I might need to wait until the boat show incentives come around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian Brantford
Might want to look for a previous year leftover IF they have options/features and a decent color left. I got my '08 XLV new in Sept '09 (boat stored indoors at dealer so no worries about sun exposure) for $42,300 (tower speakers and GGIII ballast).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawdog
Nope, you were not mislead. The dealers (at least in the US) are provided with protected territories.Quote:
Originally Posted by KSmith
Tough numbers for sure, but EVERYTHING has gone up in price. Just read a Wall Street Journal article last week that stated that, versus a year ago, mile now cost almost 5% more, beef almost 8% more and egggs almost 12% more. Input costs continue to rise and manufacturers are forced to pass them along. I'm sure SC has taken huge commodity increases due to the rise in petroleum whch drives the price of resins, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawdog
who cares if the wake is clean 18 and below?? if you are riding that slow you aren't clearing the wake, you are learning and could ride just as well behind a fishing boat so what does it matter??? its far more important to have a clean wake 22 and above at actual wakeboarding speeds. Thats what a wakeboard boat is designed for. If you want a training boat for children, I suggest a zodiac. That's what I learned on, worked absolutely fine.
There has been market consolidation. At the beginning of the recession, there was oversupply and bargains galore. During the recession, weaker players failed. Now sellers are trying to come back and are vying for more profits. So, list prices have gone up. That doesn't mean that carefully negotiated selling prices have to be much higher than before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawdog
If you know someone in the area of a competing dealer, that person might be able to find out what prices are actually available. However, the best thing to do is to remind yourself that you merely "want" a different model and are not desperate for one. In the autumn or during the winter boat shows is when the pressure to sell at a bargain will be highest. This is especially true if we get a double-dip recession.Quote:
With all that being said I did this over the phone and not in person. I might need to wait until the boat show incentives come around.
I was given the same song and dance when I was getting ready to buy. Increases in the cost of certain supplies don't mean that gouging at the retail sales level has to be tolerated by a buyer who can afford to wait.Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfeman131
Buying a new boat was the only experience that I have had as a consumer where the sellers put on airs of being offended that I would even consider an alternate vendor for the same product. Some retailers and distributors have run into legal trouble for it in other industries. It's very odd. With individual dealers of the same brand being protected from competition, the only thing that a comparison shopper can do is to visit a dealer of a competing brand. Before, there was no direct competitor to Moomba, but now there is. I wish that SC would understand this.
Ah good. As a consumer I can be a bit put off by that I suppose as it makes it more difficult to wheel and deal. From a business perspective I applaud such protections for a dealer or franchise owner. Besides, after some covert shopping it seems they are all within a reasonable range. Sure I got some cheaper prices mentioned during my special ops research, but if I were to take into account gas for the truck both ways and in most cases a motel for a night or two, it really was too close to call...Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfeman131
You must have been typing fast and must have meant that YOU cant clear the wake at 18 mph and YOU need to be doing 22 mph to clear the wake. I can personally clear the wake at slower speeds with NO BALLAST not because I'm that awesome but my technique is good. My apologies if my 8 year is not a wakeboarding phenom such as yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by yager97
My technique sucks and I can clear the wake at 18. I will usually regret it shortly after touchdown and just after my face is brutally introduced to the surface of the water, but it is nice smooth water outside the wake at least...
My 9 year old has no problem going W2W at 18mph (PP SG) with no ballast, sometimes a little slower if he's doing surface tricks than all of a sudden sweeps out and goes w2w before I speed up....I'm really not sure where your comment is coming from or what the intention is....do you always blame your equipment if you can't do something?Quote:
Originally Posted by yager97
Yager, you're way out of line. As a father of a 7 year old who is working up the nerve to try wakeboarding for the first time, I can relate to lawdog. He is looking to downsize his boat so that his daughter can have a positive wakeboarding experience. I commend him for it. Judging from the insensitivity of your reply, I am sure you don't have any kids. If you do, I feel badly for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by yager97
apologies I was typing fast without putting much thought into it. You're right, I have no kids. When I do have kids, I will be teaching them behind something small and less intimidating than a wakeboard boat. I came off like an ass, I apologize.
allow me to soften my response. I should have edited it. As a child, I would have been terrified of a 21 foot boat with a roaring engine pulling me out of the water. no matter how much ballast you take out, and slow you go, the wake is going to be large enough that it will be terrifying for most children. When I was 7 years old and 60lbs , I was able to learn behind a zodiac dinghy with 15HP engine. This made the transition to a larger boat much easier as I got better, and got bigger. Don't feel sorry for my future kids Cab, they will be fine. And in no way do I consider myself a wakeboard phenom. I'm actually a humble and nice guy, check my history, but my post came off a little offside.
Our kids learned behind SeaDoo PWC's. We didn't have a boat yet, and in hindsight was a great way to start the kids.Quote:
Originally Posted by yager97
That fantastic apology is accepted by everyone on here with kids. There's still hope for you yet!
I have kids who will be learning behind my XLV very soon (they are 3 and 5). My 5 year old is already rocking the "Ski Trainer" and she surfs with me. I don't really see what difference going 14-18 will make behind say an OutbackV or an XLV, little kids aren't going to be "jumping the wake" to start, they are just going to get up and ride, so if you don't have a perfectly formed wake at 16mph, who cares. And all Vdrive boats (20ft or 23ft) are scary to a little kid with their loud, big motors. Lets be honest, at the start it's just intimidating for little kids to wakeboard until they get the confidence.
And when my kids are ready to start jumping, I am going to have them on a very very short line so we can go really slow and I can actually talk to them from the back of the boat to help them. I can't wait for this day.
Now for actual adult wakeboarding with Full Ballast, I have to agree with Yager97, 22 or so is where you should be riding. There is no reason to load up ballast for a big wake and then ride at 17 or 18. It's just not necessary, and if you have to ride that slow, you probably are still learning to jump and you are much better off learning on a smaller wake anways and a shorter rope. Watch old Wakeboard videos and see how big the guys go on those tiny wake and you can see that 2500lbs of ballast aren't necessary for beginners to be able to "get air". In fact a smaller wake teaches better form.
those are my 14 yr olds at 15mph above pics i usually ride around 21 if flat
Here is my 10 yr old who just learned to wakeboard two days earlier, riding at 10 mph
http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/h...o/IMAG0271.jpg no wake all foam she loves it.
Sent from my GT-P1010 using Tapatalk
AGREED! Nice job, Yager.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaneboats
+1 . always teach the little ones with the pwc...Quote:
Originally Posted by mnpracing