ok so mine at about 50% volume cut off in about half an hour of non continuous play. and they all three do it, the harpoom, the 800.4, and the 600.1. never happened until last weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by bhowell
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ok so mine at about 50% volume cut off in about half an hour of non continuous play. and they all three do it, the harpoom, the 800.4, and the 600.1. never happened until last weekend.Quote:
Originally Posted by bhowell
There's got to be something in your wireing or settings because even last year at 104 I was pounding mine all day never an issue. I'd have to say if all three are shutting down it's the deck over heating not your amps. The 800 isn't een starting to work just pushing cabins my 800 isn't even at 50% gain and it can over power my exile cabins.
Running the Hybrid tower it takes about 4 hours to overheat the Poon but if I just mute the tower when someone falls or when not pulling people I never have an issue. Also my cubby is full of back packs and towels so very little free air
I'm running a memphis 1100 watt at 1Ohm to a kicker solobaric 12 and then a kicker 500.4 to the 6500.2 tower setup. Kcker cabins and a 4 channel/80w. I felt Davids amps and they were so damn hot you couldn't keep your hand on them for more than a second. I don't crack the cushions or open the port locker and mine don't get near that temp. I'm running the 2 battery setup with perko, 4 gauge main to memphis distribution block, 4gauge power and ground to all 3 amps.
My amps are very hot to the touch as well. Definitely, can't keep my hand on them.Quote:
Originally Posted by matt75
i never use my "deck" so i dont think that is the issue. plus the amps dont just all turn off at once, one will shut down, then 5-10 min later another, then another. nothing in my wiring has changed over the last two weeks.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmandley
I think the battery is the issue. You've got three pretty big amps running off one battery that never gets shore charged, so the only charge it gets is from the alternator. The stock alternator does not have enough output to replenish what your amps are drawing from your battery especially if you are also running the stereo with the engine off. So every time you go out, your stereo battery is getting more and more drained.Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlangston13
So I think your amps are shutting down because they are not getting enough voltage which I think is also causing them to get hot.
I am sure the experts will chime in but I think this is the problem.
I have the same amps as you except I have a JL M6600 instead of the Exile 800.4. I have two stereo batteries rated 125AH each and a ProMariner 20 amp charger and charge my batteries after every use and my amps never shut down or get unusually hot. I know that not everyone has 120V AC available where they store their boat - I am fortunate enough to be able to store mine in my garage.
Al
This is what I am thinking as well. I think I am going to go with two blue tops and a yellow top along with a pro20 shore charger but I want to make sure this will fix my problem before I spend a grand on all this.
Save yourself some coin, go to Costco, they have group 27 Batteries with a 115 a/h rating. I'm running 3 of them with my system + a separate crank battery.
+1! I went with two Group 29 marine deep cycles from Walmart for my stereo bank, 125 AH, $85 each.Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty2221
I agree with the other comments about not spending the extra coin on Blue Tops. I have 3 in my stereo bank and I'm not sure it was worth it. I do recommend the Pro20 charger.Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlangston13
what are the different groups of batteries?
"Group" is battery speaker for size. Basically like a trade # on an automotive light bulb.Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlangston13
Now I've heard everything. A boat that has got to be plugged in when it's out of the water.:rolleyes:
You folks are running some pretty nasty systems.
Pretty soon these boats will come with a separate generator to keep the sound system batteries charged.
^^^ Actually using a gen is very common on pontoons and other boats that only feature stators on their outboard motors. Also, its not a bad idea for long weekend camping trips where AC power is unavailable. So its one more thing to add to your boating list!
David
Earmark Marine
The larger the #, the larger the physical size of the battery and the larger it's electrical capacity, in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlangston13
So what is the best bang for my buck battery wise? I want to go with 2 stereo batteries and 1 starting battery. I know the optimas are good but i hear i can get something just as good for a fraction of the cost. What would that be? I want something maintenance free.Quote:
Originally Posted by cab13367
I also have 3 of these Group 29 marine deep cycles from wally world and they perform fine. Save the money for an ACR and a pro20 charger, well worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by cab13367
Battery sizing can be a little confusing because the numbering system isn't entirely sequential.
Group 34. Common to compact racing batteries and AGMs like an Optima. Similar to a group 24 but not as tall.
Group 24. A standard size for starting and marine batteries. Stock in most towboats.
Group 27. Larger dimensions and capacity over a group 24. Requires a larger 27 case/lid or tray/bracket.
Group 29. For all purposes this is the equivalent of a group 31.
Group 31. Larger dimensions and capacity over a group 27 and will often fit in a group 27 case or bracket.
Its really simple but usually as the battery becomes heavier and larger the battery has more reserve capacity. You could almost skip the amp/hour rating and go purely by the weight.
David
Earmark Marine
So David, what battery set up do you recommend for my system?
rd,
Best bang for the buck is going to be a wet/flooded battery and you will really only have to check fluids three to four times a year if you are charging them correctly. AGMs will not provide greater amp/hour capacity for the size and weight and certainly cost more but have numerous other and valuable advantages. We have had zero problems with Optimas and have boat owners running the same batteries for five seasons...but they are disciplined in their battery care. Deka makes a premier AGM and will provide a little more capacity.
In general, a deep cycle will have no trouble turning over a small block in warm weather. So I like a deep cycle battery for the starting side also since there is a certain amount of leveling that takes place after a long play at rest. With repetition this is unhealthy for a standard cranking type battery.
So a single group 34 or 24 for the starting. For the stereo battery bank you need to match up your anticipated play time and how hard you play the system with your total system power and amplifier efficiency. A single group 27, 29 or 31 would be minimum while dual 29s or 31s should be maximum. Remember that the larger your battery capacity is the more dependent on AC shore charging you will become to maintain healthy batteries. And you've got to have the right charger capacity to match up with your collective amp/hours. With all the stereo and battery investment, don't go cheap on a minder/tender/maintenance/trickle charger. Making the right choice here is just as essential.
David
Earmark Marine
After talking with David on batteries I went with a single Deka 31 agm battery for my system. I don't blast music long periods nor do we float forever either. So far up to 95 degrees with three Exile amps without issues. Stayed with a standard group 24 for the cranking battery. When off the lake they are maintained by a ProMariner ProSport 20.
Ok I am thinking 2 group 29 batteries for the stereo since we do park at the island and jam sometimes and maybe a group 24 deep cycle for starting. Now are the Deka AGM batteries more or less than the Optima? And I may do one optima stereo battery now and another in a few months.
I would recommend trying to get all of your batteries in the future all the same type, as the Prosport20 Charger (if you are getting one in the future) are designed to charge batteries of same type (Flooded(lead-acid)/STD AGM, GEL & High Performance(HP) AGM) if that makes sense, I'm not talking about "groups" as types... but what do I know, lolQuote:
Originally Posted by rdlangston13
It sounds like you are, but I just wanted to throw that out there.
I would agree that all batteries should be the same chemistry whether wet or AGM. Some of the more expensive chargers, like Xantrex for example, provide for independent profiles per bank. Its certainly less critical relating to your alternator since there is going to be a large inequity between the two banks regardless. Its just an inherent flaw in boat dual bank charging systems you cannot get around unless you have dual alternators.
But, once you parallel two or more batteries for your stereo bank that are always used and charged the same, all batteries should be identical in size, type and in particular their age. With battery usage the internal resistance will change. Mixing different ages will create over/under charging which is hard on the longevity of all the batteries within that bank, old and new. So, do your best to set your plan in the beginning and stick with it. There are worse things that you can do but try and avoid adding additional batteries to an aged bank.
Also, having extra capacity means that you are not cycling your batteries as deeply. Although deep cycle batteries are meant for this you can get an inordinate number of shallower cycles out of a battery versus a comparatively fewer deeper cycles. Its not an equitable ratio. So having extra capacity will significantly extend battery longevity.
David
Earmark Marine
For what it's worth I called ProMariner before purchasing the ProSport and they did tell me it's perfectly fine to run an agm and lead acid together as the the standard profile supports both those types. And as the only time they should be combined is in an emergency start situation there's no issue running two types. IF you have your isolation done correctly that is.
razz, how much did the deka agm set you back? more or less than an optima blue top/Quote:
Originally Posted by Razzman
I got it local for $160Quote:
Originally Posted by rdlangston13
Not sure what you guys are runnin but my kicker 750mx and 500ix were blasting all day long and for fun I took my voltmeter to the boat a good 15 mins after stopped and both batts were at 13.05 volts. If I played any louder I was afraid someone was going to call the OPP on me. Interstate batts only. I'm liking the class D ix :). Plus it was 100degrees today and no shut downs or overheatys
What are you running with your ix500?Quote:
Originally Posted by DOCDRS
Kicker HLCD tower speakers with a. WS420 and a H S E revolution
a legit 100 degrees or 100 heat index?
100 external. 86 lake. Temps as registered on my seadoo and the 86 confirmed on boat lake temp
Here in the DFW area, as of today, we have had over 20 days straight of 100 degree plus temperatures. We have yet to have a boat owner call or bring his boat by with thermal shutdown issues where we installed Class D amplifiers.
David
Earmark Marine
so can low battery power cause the amps to over heat even if the voltage is ok due to the alternator charging?Quote:
Originally Posted by EarmarkMarine
rd,
Low voltage is hard on all electronics including boat electronics, starters, etc.
Let's look at a particular scenerio...
You've been at rest and run two group 29 or 31s down to 10.5 volts (considered empty) and the audio system shuts down due to low voltage. So you start up the boat which has a 90 amp alternator (pretty good size) and are running at a moderate rpm. The alternator is only rated and intended to deliver its full rated output while at high rpms and for short durations. So you're not getting the full 90 amps. The boat operations, ignition etc, take 15 to 20 amps without any DC lighting or accessories. You are continuing to play your stereo at half power which is drawing 67 amps. The two depleted stereo batteries are discharged and a serious liability rather than an asset to your charging system at this point, thus are pulling 25 amps each initially until they get a charge. Collectively we have a 137 potential total amperage draw from an alternator that is realistically putting out 70 amps under the present conditions. Since the total draw is exceeding the alternator capacity, right now we are pulling down the starting battery as it levels with the stereo bank since the battery switch is in the 'Both' position. If its an ACR there is no way its combining under these conditions and the stereo bank is off-line entirely from the alternator. In either case you won't begin to charge the stereo bank until you shut down the stereo. As the current draw increases a voltage drop is simultaneous. If your reserves are depleted then the issue is greatly compounded. Its unavoidable. Something else to consider is, if the voltage is down to just 12.5 volts you may have lost up to 20 percent of your amplifier rated output power with a continued loss of power as voltage drops farther. By the time the system shuts down due to low voltage your amplifiers are generating just a fraction of their rated power.
You can upgrade your alternator. Past 120 amps you are going to have to get away from the conventional V belts and pulleys which is very expensive. Really large alternators when under serious load also impact HP and may even be noticeable.
While this is an extreme scenerio for some its the norm for others and even more complex for those with systems twice the size.
First, battery reserves are important.
Second, get a serious AC shore charger rather than a trickle/tender/minder variety.
Third, give the stereo a rest sometimes so the charging system can catch its breath so to speak and has the opportunity to charge the batteries after a long period at rest.
Fourth, the above issues are why I so strongly recommend designing an audio system from the beginning for maximum efficiency including sub, sub enclosure, tuning and especially amplifier efficiency. Increased efficiency will go a long way towards eliminating thermal problems also.
David
Earmark Marine
ok new batteries installed. Two interstate SRM-29s for the stereo and one interstae group 24 marine cranking for starting. Also now have a permantently mounted prosport 20 plus. the first test of the new set up will be this weekend on lake belton. lets hope the amps will play for more than a half hour!
question on adding water to batteries, do you fill them till they over flow or what?
I always fill mine to the bottom of the top plateQuote:
Originally Posted by rdlangston13
Fill to a level that is above the top of the plates.
Never, ever overfill and spill. You are releasing important chemicals from the battery that are needed and also the chemicals happen to be very destructive when exterior to the battery.
Only use distilled water and never tap water.
Check 3 to 4 times per season. When you are adding moderate amounts of water more than several times per year that is an indication of over-charging or failing batteries and it would be time for a load test.
David
Earmark Marine
thanks, i saw a little battery watering kit at bass pro that fits on top of the battery, looks like it is supposed to make filling them easier. any thoughts on products like these?
Went to the lake this weekend and th stereo performed flawlessly. We never really party coved at all but we did use the harpoon at a low to moderate volume for hours. Very pleased so far