Designing surf tabs out of auto trim tabs

Here is what I was thinking, please any input on this would be great.
I am trying to make a shopping list for black Friday/ cyber Monday.

Here is my shopping list right now.

(2) Lenco Trim tab Edge mounted 9"Wx12"L Part # 20159-001 Cost $94 each
(2) Lenco Actuator 4-1/4 stroke Part # 15059-001 Cost $210 each
(2) Lenco upper actuator mount Part #15070-001 Cost #18 each
(2) Lenco Lower actuator mount Part # 50015-001d Cost $16 each
(2) Lenco 20' wiring harness Part # 30133-103D Cost $33 each
(1) Lenco Switch Led indicator kit Part #15070-001 Cost $320
(This switch kit has the wrong part number this one is for a 2-1/4 stroke actuator I need the one for a 4-1/4 stroke actuator but the said it is the same cost) (I am trying to get a part number for it now but it may be a special order the local lenco dealer.)

If I ordered today I would be looking at $1062 plus any taxes or shipping if required.


Okay now here is my plan

Install the two trim tabs Like they are designed for but use a longer stroke actuator to use them as Surf tabs.

I was looking at a kit with the standard 2-1/4" stroke actuators but the plates will only go down to about 22 degrees.
with the 4-1/4 stroke actuators it will go down to about 60 degrees. this was verified with cardboard and a tape measure this weekend.

I think I will be good on the controller it has an input on it. So if it does not have 12 volts on it, it automatic raises the plates to the all up position. (I was going to put this in a rocker switch to turn the system off and on with.) It also has led indicators to tell you were the tab is.

This weekend I winterized my boat and a cut out a piece of cardboard for the tabs.
Here is what I came up with.

1. The back of the supra 21v has a 1/2 in surface change where I want to put the tab.
My plan is to use a piece of Trex decking I have left over to shim this level.

2. The lip of the platform will be in the way. and it is going to be tight against the platform.
It should not be a problem cutting 2 or 3 inches of the lower lip off the platform(It is the part that is against the back of the boat no one should be able to see this.). I might have to raise the platform a inch or two.

I'll be following your progress, that's for sure. :-)

Broke down and order all the parts for the trim tab system. I was hoping to save some money but all I save was shipping taxes and just a little more than that.
everything should be in 5 to 7 days. but I still have 3 plus months to get in on the boat for testing.

Everything but the controller has came in for the system. it is suppose to ship on the 28th I am hoping to move the boat from storage to the work shop Friday or Saturday this week. to start the install.

I also have a second guy looking at redoing the vinyl today.

Looking forward to seeing this all come together. Pics pics pics along the way!

Any further work/design done on the trim tab surf system? I know it's winter and you are probably not in a big hurry but this seems like a great project! Thanks for posting!

Any head way on your design? Curious to see how it turns out!

My construction business got in the why the last two weeks had a friends house catch on fire and a New years day mishap with a side x side going through a garage wall at my parents house kept me from working on the boat. no one got hurt just kept me from working on the boat.
I am hoping to start something in the next week. being in Illinois it will be rough to test anything till spring time.

We've been exploring these options hard for close to two years. I think you'll have a very difficult time getting the results you're looking for with standard a standard trim tab; they additional surface area alone just isn't enough to do the job. Look at the Mastercraft Gen I Surf Tabs for an example of this.

I'll be watching to see what your results are though, as we haven't tested them on any Moomba hulls.

I got the boat into my heated shop this weekend.
Got all the parts I need to put the system together.
The one think I was afraid of with the longer stroke actuators the are physical a little to long to fit under the swim platform.
I was already planning on raising my platform up an 1".
So I am going to raise it an inch and I was already planning on using the tab as a baseplate to add different shape plates to. so now I just got to add about 3" of length to the trim tabs so the actuator will mount a little further back on the tab. (we are going to bolt the things together for now to we see how the system works in the water than when we have it the way we want it we will weld it than.)

On thing nice my family owns a scrap yard so we get all kinds of scrap metal in (stainless and aluminum)
also I have a brother that is a boilermaker and is awesome at welding. He has everything for welding stainless and aluminum. To top that off he is on my boat most the summer and loves to surfing.

We are going to play with it tonight so I will try to postsome pics tomorrow.

Looking forward to seeing your progress.

So for a quick reference, are all these different surf tabs, actuators , plates,gates and flow systems are all deployed on the side you are not surfing on? Or are some deployed on the surf side ? Not to hijack the thread

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Originally Posted by wolff supra21v

I got the boat into my heated shop this weekend.
Got all the parts I need to put the system together.
The one think I was afraid of with the longer stroke actuators the are physical a little to long to fit under the swim platform.
I was already planning on raising my platform up an 1".
So I am going to raise it an inch and I was already planning on using the tab as a baseplate to add different shape plates to. so now I just got to add about 3" of length to the trim tabs so the actuator will mount a little further back on the tab. (we are going to bolt the things together for now to we see how the system works in the water than when we have it the way we want it we will weld it than.)

On thing nice my family owns a scrap yard so we get all kinds of scrap metal in (stainless and aluminum)
also I have a brother that is a boilermaker and is awesome at welding. He has everything for welding stainless and aluminum. To top that off he is on my boat most the summer and loves to surfing.

We are going to play with it tonight so I will try to postsome pics tomorrow.

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Awesome, like I said I can't wait to see what your results are.

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Originally Posted by DOCDRS

So for a quick reference, are all these different surf tabs, actuators , plates,gates and flow systems are all deployed on the side you are not surfing on? Or are some deployed on the surf side ? Not to hijack the thread

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They are essentially all deployed on the non-surf side of the boat, regardless of the actual implementation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DOCDRS

So for a quick reference, are all these different surf tabs, actuators , plates,gates and flow systems are all deployed on the side you are not surfing on? Or are some deployed on the surf side ? Not to hijack the thread

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Explained pretty well in this thread:

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread....t=surf+systems

Just a little update.
I been taking all my seats out right now for new vinyl so that slowed this down a little bit.

We done some measuring. and trying to get a little extra material right now. I am getting some 1" square tubing to raise the swim deck up a little.
also I am going to cut two 6"x6" stainless plates this weekend to add to the length of the trim tab. I order 9" wide by 12" long tabs. but by ordering the longer actuators to get the tabs in an up position that should not affect the wakeboard wake. I need an addition 2-1/2" to the length of the tab.

Also I got two piece of composite decking left over from my house. I am going to cut and trim them to give a good flat area to mount the trim tab to.

Please take some pics of the process and share with us. Can't wait to see how this comes out for you.

would love to see some progress, even a mock up would be nice

Due to the sixty degree weather in IL this weekend I did not work on the boat that much.
Here are some pics and what I am thinking.
I connected actuator with the tabs and electrical switch system a screwed the tab to a post and here what I came up with I actual only have about 30 degrees of movement I was hoping for more around 50 degrees of movement. Here are some pics of the tabs mounted to the post 1st two with the tab all the way up and second two with the tab all the way down.

Attachment 21341Attachment 21342Attachment 21343Attachment 21344

Also here is a picture of the switch. this system seam like it will work nice. It has a key/throttle power option. (there is an extra wire and when it loses power it automatically puts the tabs in the up position.) I plan on putting this on a rocker switch and labeling it surf tabs only, it needs to be on when using the tabs. It would be nice if it remembered where it was when power back up so you would not have to reset everything but there is also 10 leds showing the location of either tab.

Also I am wanting to mount the actuators in the dark gray strip next to the swim platform mount and by looking at this with the platform back on I really do not need to raise the platform if I trim about 2" of the outer lip off of the platform next to the mounting bracket.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolff supra21v

Due to the sixty degree weather in IL this weekend I did not work on the boat that much.
Here are some pics and what I am thinking.
I connected actuator with the tabs and electrical switch system a screwed the tab to a post and here what I came up with I actual only have about 30 degrees of movement I was hoping for more around 50 degrees of movement. Here are some pics of the tabs mounted to the post 1st two with the tab all the way up and second two with the tab all the way down.

Attachment 21341Attachment 21342Attachment 21343Attachment 21344

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Easy. Mount the actuator more towards the middle of the tab vs all the way at the far back end. That's what Moomba is doing with the autoflow.

Look at this pic of the autoflow. Moomba is getting their desired range of motion out of only 1 inch of throw on the shorter throw actuators...
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q...108_182909.jpg

Oh, now I see the problem. You'd have to mount the actuators HIGHER to take advantage of the increased range of motion. So maybe that's not an option??

On my XLV with my custom platform mounting the actuators outboard of the platform is what I'd be planning on if/when I do a mod like this.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-e...027_201307.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolff supra21v

Also here is a picture of the switch. this system seam like it will work nice. It has a key/throttle power option. (there is an extra wire and when it loses power it automatically puts the tabs in the up position.) I plan on putting this on a rocker switch and labeling it surf tabs only, it needs to be on when using the tabs. It would be nice if it remembered where it was when power back up so you would not have to reset everything but there is also 10 leds showing the location of either tab.

Also I am wanting to mount the actuators in the dark gray strip next to the swim platform mount and by looking at this with the platform back on I really do not need to raise the platform if I trim about 2" of the outer lip off of the platform next to the mounting bracket.

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I like your idea of a rocker switch that's required to power "on" the surf tabs. My biggest concern/fear would be that I would try to pull onto the trailer with the tabs down! The key off wouldn't help in this scenario because I still have the boat running when I'm loading onto the trailer and hitching up the bow strap. And there's just enough overlap between the back of the hull and how far the outboard bunks stick out in the rear that I'd worry about banging the tabs on the bunks...

You can see on this pic how my bunks stick out just a little farther than my hull on the outer bunks.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2...203_134551.jpg

This pic shows it really well.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-7...203_134616.jpg

Certainly it'd be possible to trim down the bunks to ensure that couldn't happen. But that's a bridge I'd cross when I did tabs.

Well done! Keep blazing the trail. Looking forward to more updates.

I think you'll find that's WAY too much deployment. In all of our testing, anything over 11-12 degrees off the running surface has a negative impact on the wake. This will certainly depend somewhat on the design of the tab, but the amount of deployment you've got right now is A LOT.

Trayson, you'll definitely want to cut those bunks down once you get ready to tackle this.

I hope that is two much deployment, I would just hate to need just a little more that I did not have.
I do not remember how far down the mastercrafts tabs deploy but I was thinking I seen the surpa's tabs deployed down around 80 degrees.

Trayson, my bunks are the same way and that is the plan also to cut about 3 to 4" off them.

You can always put a block between the upper mount and the transom to act as space if you need more angle, but I don't think that will be an issue.

Jason - Is there an ineffective middle ground on angle? Seems like the Swell, Autoflow, and Centurion quick surf all go way beyond 12 degrees.

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Originally Posted by Boonejeepin

Jason - Is there an ineffective middle ground on angle? Seems like the Swell, Autoflow, and Centurion quick surf all go way beyond 12 degrees.

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Centurion for comparison:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-m...108_203616.jpg

I don't have a good pic of the autoflow deployed, but a pic where you can get kind of an idea relative to the wakeplate:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Q...108_182909.jpg

After seeing those pics I think I had an incorrect concept of how far the Autoflow and Centurion quick surf extends downward.

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Originally Posted by Boonejeepin

After seeing those pics I think I had an incorrect concept of how far the Autoflow and Centurion quick surf extends downward.

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Supra Swell. this gives a better idea of angle since the mount has a "flat" part for reference.
http://www.wakemakers.com/wp/wp-cont...ell-blade.jpeg

I thought it went further down.

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Originally Posted by Boonejeepin

I thought it went further down.

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you are correct

watch the video at :38 and 1:33

http://vimeo.com/79996153

Interesting new product from Wake Worx. Their tabs are well beyond 12 degrees as well. Still interested in Jason's input on angles. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...f1d2c294ab.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...f01e5cbdd1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Boonejeepin

Interesting new product from Wake Worx. Their tabs are well beyond 12 degrees as well. Still interested in Jason's input on angles. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...f1d2c294ab.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/15...f01e5cbdd1.jpg

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Looked on there website, but couldn't find any info on these tabs yet.

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Originally Posted by jstenger

Looked on there website, but couldn't find any info on these tabs yet.

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The only info I have seen is on FB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wolfeman131

you are correct

watch the video at :38 and 1:33

http://vimeo.com/79996153

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Damn you're right. that looks damn near 90 degrees.

That is what I remember hearing about the swell. That certainly makes sense with all the Swell's robust bracing.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3...s800/Swell.jpg

Is that the control switch centered on the transom on the Wake Worx setup???

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Originally Posted by bergermaister

Is that the control switch centered on the transom on the Wake Worx setup???

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That's a fake transom, and the switch is obviously there just for display. Kind of like how the Moomba with autoflow at the pdx boat show had a switch hanging off the back of the transom.

Obviously that switch would be mounted near the driver.

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Originally Posted by trayson

Damn you're right. that looks damn near 90 degrees.

That is what I remember hearing about the swell. That certainly makes sense with all the Swell's robust bracing.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-3...s800/Swell.jpg

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This is exactly what I was referring to back when I mentioned how disappointed I was that the Auto Flow doesn't go down as fare as the Swell. I was really hopping for a Swell system basically. I still don't get how the Auto Flow, and all these new systems out are really changing the wave. I don't see any of them as changing the convergence of water coming from under the boat.

I see them as a plate that is pressing into the water exiting the hull and helping to Delay the time at which it forms the wave. This to me is not really changing the wave. It also seem the tab systems are only going to roll the boat over more as they are deployed.

This whole thing is whats keeping me from pulling the trigger on an upgrade. I really need to see, surf these systems to see if they are worth the money the suppliers are asking for them.

Makes sense Mike. I guess we'll let Wolf and Boonejeepin blaze the trail and find out what works and what doesn't...

I blazed the trail on my Supra when I did an NSS style system. I'm holding off for a little bit on the XLV...

I was hoping that they would just add actuators to the current Flow which would look similar to the pic below.

http://i1217.photobucket.com/albums/...1940703_1.jpeg

I don't think it would be that hard to do.