PDA

View Full Version : Tsunami 800 ballast pump upgrade project



Fman
08-02-2009, 05:22 PM
Finished my tsunami pump ugrade for my '08 SUPRA Sunsport 22V. I wanted to post pictures of the project along with directions on how I did it. This system will eliminate the sprinkler valves, filter and RULE pump. The only thing I used left over from the stock system was the ball valve and intake grate. You will need to completely remove the entire stock manifold/sprinkler valves, cut the wiring, remove filter and RULE pump.

First, I had to remove the intake grate from the boat and grind down the scupper. With this setup you will not be using sprinkler valves anymore and the tsunamis will not prevent water from entering into the bags while plaining the boat/driving. The vented loops are used to help alleviate the bags from filling.

After you have grinded the scupper off the intake grate, re-install onto the boat by sealing with 3M Marine Silicon 4200. Make sure and remove it from the boat! dont try and grind it on the boat, I can gaurantee you will do damage to the bottom of your boat/gel coat! and wear eye protection and long sleeves when grinding. Brass slivers will be flying all over the place. I also chose to put duck tape around the intake grate before removing it, this helps with scratching and also makes it nice when you apply the silicone after re-installing without making a mess of everything.

The manifold I used is 3/4" brass, I bought all the parts at Home Depot. I chose brass because it is strong for this applications, wont rust and a much better alternative than PVC. It is more expensive, but the last thing you want it have your manifold crack and start taking in water in the bilge area. You can see by the pictures it sits very low to the bottom of the boat. It was a tight fit, but my main concern was having it low to the bottom which I accomplished. You need to have the tsunami pumps close to the bottom of the boat because they are not self priming. They need to be below the water draft line on the outside of the boat to create pressure to force water into the pump. I had no priming issues at all, hit the fill switch and you are good to go. Unlike the stock RULE pump that will not prime at times unless you drive the boat, and even this method did not always work.

Once the manifold is put together and installed after the ball valve, you need to screw on the tsunami pumps. This is also a great time to extend the wiring on the pumps, it will make it much easier than waiting until they are mounted by the bottom of the boat. I would add about 1 ft of wire to each wire, this should be plenty to reach the wires from the sprinkler valves. Obviously everything that is threaded needs pipe dope or teflon tape wrapped around the threads to prevent leaking.

After this the wiring will easily match up, just reconnect the stock wires to the tsunami's. Does not matter which wire you connect. The wiring from the RULE pump can just be capped of, you will not need this anymore. Make sure and connect the proper wiring to the pump you want to fill a certain bag with. They had the wires marked right, left and center on the stock wiring harness.

Now you are ready to install your vented loops. I chose to mount them on the rear wall of the ski lockers as high up as possible. The higher up the better. I also mounted the center ballast vented loop right next to the drivers side vented loop. Wakemakers recommends mounting it under the front dash, I chose this route because it was easier and seems to work fine. I figured if it would not fill up the rear bags, why would it fill up the center bag??? my theory proved correct, no problems with center bag filling.

Now you are ready to connect your hoses to the vented loops and tsunami pumps. I used 1" hose clamps and 3/4" no-kink bilge line, the stuff is bullet proof and wont kink and is easy to work with. I used an additional 25 feet of hose to make all the new connections. You will also need (3) double male barbed 3/4" fitting to attach the new bilge line to the existing ballast line. This makes it a lot easier not having to re-route the entire fill line. I picked up 5 or 6 of them just to have a few extras on hand incase I needed them. You can always return the ones you dont use.

You will run the hose from the tsunami to the vented loop, back into the bag. Pretty simple, and the drains will not have to be touched seeing as each bag already has its own drain pump on it. I would recommend replacing the stock drain tube with the new 3/4" no-kink line, this will eliminate any headaches of pinching the line from a full bag. (had this happen to me once, it sucks). You will need a couple 3/4" double male barbed fittings to attach the no-kink bilge line to the existing stock drain lines. I would cut it just behind or near the sidewall and re-run the no-kink from this point. The 3/4" double male barbed fittings are available at Lowes, wakemakers did not sell them.

The last item you need to replace is the 3 amp fuses on the fuse panel under the dash. If you crawl on your back and look up to the right side of the dash area you will see a fuse bank with 6 fuses. They are clearly marked with 3. There is also three other fuses that already are using 5 amp fuses, dont do anything to these, they are for the drain pumps. The 3 amp fuses will need to be replaced with 5amp fuses or else you will start to blow fuses when filling. The sprinkler valves you replaced used very little amperage to operate, the Tsunamis run at about 2 amps, so 5 is a good choice. 3 amps is a little close to the max output and eventually you will blow a fuse. Its also not a bad idea to keep some of these handy on your boat just incase you end up needing one on the water. They can be purchased at any automotive store.

One other recommendation is to vent the bags, Supra did not do this. It will make a huge difference in filling them and not having air pockets and loosing ballast weight. Typically you loose about 20% from air pockets. All you need to do is run a line from the extra plugged fitting on the bag to the end of your drain line with a "Y" connector and one way check valve. The check valve is used to stop water from entering back into the bag when emptying. Try and get it as close to the end of the line near the exit hole out the side of the boat. This will also help the bag drain when it is completely full, letting you know it has reached capacity. And of course the biggest advantage to let all the air push out while filling. I have done this to all three of my bags. Tie each bag into the drain line it is using. Make sure you have the extra vent plug on your bag, some have them and some dont. If you dont have the extra one you will have to purchase an entire new bag.

After this you are finished and good to go. The tsunami's will pump 13.4 GPM per bag, much faster than the stock RULE system. The 3/4" intake is good for about 38-40 GPM. So it will accommodate the necessary flow for all the three pumps running at once. Tsunamis are reliable, easy to use pumps. The nice thing about aerator style pumps over impeller driven is aerator pumps will not burn up when ran dry. Impeller pumps when ran dry will burn up and need to be re-built.

I chose the tsunami's over the JABSCO pumps (they use in malibu and mastercraft) because the tsunami 800's put out 13.4 GPM compared to the JABSCO at 9 gpm, so you are getting a little more flow. In my opinion, the Tsunami's will probably outlast the JABSCO pump. And if you do need to ever replace one they are only about $30. JABSCO pumps are running about $235 each. The JABSCO pumps also use 9 amp per pump, and the Tsunami is less than 2 amps per pump. All 3 Tsunamis running at one time do not equal the amount of amp draw one JABSCO pump uses. I just could not see that much benefit using it in this application, especially since the Supra has seperate drain pumps already installed for each bag. Another problem with the JABSCO pumps is when the impeller goes bad, water will drain out of the sacs.

Hope this gives some useful information, I know its a great upgrade from the stock system. In my opinion, well worth the $300. Total install time for me was about 7 hours. I lake tested this system last week and hod no problems with it filling or having the bags fill up when the system is not being used and the boat is being driven. If you choose to also vent the bags, it will be an additional $150 worth of parts to do this.

Jason at wakemakers help me build this system, I ordered everything from them. Unfortunately the adaptors for the stock manifold they sent me did not fit, that is why I built my own out of brass. My stock manifold would not have worked because there was not enough space to fit the tsunami's down below near the bottom of the boat. Jason has been very helpful and I would highly recommend them to get your parts and any questions you might have for them.

Parts list:

3 Tsunami 800 ballast pumps
3/4" Male barbed fitting that will screw on exit port on Tsunami pump
20-25 ft of 3/4" no kink bilge line (I call it no-kink, its ribbed)
3 3/4" double male barbed fittings
A bunch of 3/4"-1" hose clamps
Solder gun/wire connectors to extend wiring on pumps
Extra wire (5 ft max) to exend wiring on pumps
3 Vented loops
Brass Manifold parts or Supra Manifold (my supra manifold would not fit the pumps correctly by the bottom of boat)
3m Marine 4200 silicone
Pipe dope or teflon tape
Tie straps to secure wiring
Electrical tape
Grinder to grind off intake scupper/vice to hold intake grate
Safety glasses/long sleeve shirt while grinding
5 amp fuses (3 of them)

If you are venting the bags:

3 "Y" or "T" connectors to tie into your drain line
3 one way check valves
3 male quick disconnect fittings (goes into extra port on bag)
3 female quick disconnect fittings (with red tab, goes on bilge line)
3 3/4" double barbed male fittings
Extra 3/4" no-kink bilge line
More hose clamps

Website is www.wakemakers.com

Fman
08-02-2009, 05:27 PM
Here are a couple more pics...

dickydiehl
08-03-2009, 11:00 AM
fman did you just use the sprinkler valve wires to power your 800 tsunumi, i'm thinking about adding 2 1200 tsunumi to mine 08 22ssv.

sandm
08-03-2009, 11:18 AM
intrigued with this. perhaps you could mspaint a diagram or something to show what you did and how the vent lines are ran. I'm not visualizing how the vents will keep the bags from filling...

Is this similar to the setup that nautique uses? I have seen their pump setup and it looks real nice. much more professional than the sprinkler setup we have :(

Fman
08-03-2009, 02:30 PM
Yes, the wires from the sprinkler valves will power the tsunami's with no problems. I chose the 800's because there was not a huge GPM difference between the two and the 800's are already setup for 3/4" which was much less headache. But you could definitely use the 1200 series (1" plumbing) if you wanted to make all the adaptors and fittings and get more GPM's.

Yes, the vented loops are there to prevent any water from entering the bags when you are driving the boat. The tsunami's will not prevent water from entering the system, this is the reason from grinding off the scupper at the bottom of the intake. If you dont grind off the scupper it will force too much water into the system and the vented loops will not be able to hold back the pressure. The vented loops create an air pocket that will stop the water from entering into the bag, kind of a syphoning effect. Not sure if it is the same system as the nautique's use or not. Not to familair with that boat at all.

If you dont grind the scupper off, you can manually close the ball valve when not using the system and it would work. I just did not want the headache of having to life up the seat and turn it on/off after filling the bags.

*** If you have more questions, please ask up... happy to answer and try to lend a hand. This is a great upgrade for this boat, I always hated those sprinkler valve/one pump system. I will try and take some better pictures this week and post them up.

Travis....

moombadaze
08-03-2009, 05:30 PM
Im in the middle of this mod, just need one more 800 pump, anyway took the boat to the lake today to check and see how the 3 pumps would work and found out that adding the tsunamis were the sprinkler valves are (above the trans) does not work. I would loose all water coming out when at idle but water would poor out when the boat was just above idle speed. So back to Ace hardware and now I have relocated the 2 pumps down low and hope to pick up the 3rd pump soon as im going out the coming weekend surfing with friends. I will actually have a 4 pumps filling 3 bags. I will post up some photos when done. 2 of the pumps are just for filling the surf bag.

moombadaze
08-03-2009, 05:52 PM
fman did you just use the sprinkler valve wires to power your 800 tsunumi, i'm thinking about adding 2 1200 tsunumi to mine 08 22ssv.


I have one tsunami 1200 (to empty my surf bag) and the reason most dont use it is that the thread size is extremly odd--never found a match for it to screw into.

Fman
08-03-2009, 06:52 PM
Im in the middle of this mod, just need one more 800 pump, anyway took the boat to the lake today to check and see how the 3 pumps would work and found out that adding the tsunamis were the sprinkler valves are (above the trans) does not work. I would loose all water coming out when at idle but water would poor out when the boat was just above idle speed. So back to Ace hardware and now I have relocated the 2 pumps down low and hope to pick up the 3rd pump soon as im going out the coming weekend surfing with friends. I will actually have a 4 pumps filling 3 bags. I will post up some photos when done. 2 of the pumps are just for filling the surf bag.

Makes sense, these pumps will not prime themselves, need to be lower than the draft line when the boat is in the water. If you look at my install, my pumps are literally across the bottom of the boat. I have had no problems priming, the lower you can get them, the better they will prime. Make sure and remove that scupper off the bottom or else you will get water in your bags while driving. I chose to grind my scupper down rather than buy a new 3/4" inlet because all the holes and screws line up with the current intake grate. Did not want to have to fill any holes in the bottom of the boat.

You are correct about the 1200's, I was discouraged by wakemakers to use them because of the difficult thread pattern they have used to match anything up to it. According to wakemakers they did not see a significant difference in fill times from the 800 to 1200 model.

Good luck with your install, post some pictures when you are finished. When its all done its a much better system than the stock setup. I think it might even be better than the '09 JABSCO setup because aerator pumps last forever and can be run dry without damaging them, unlike the impeller style that will burn up if ran dry. Plus, the tsunami's put out more GPM's than the JABSCO's and cost much less (Tsunami - $35, JABSCO - $265).

moombadaze
08-03-2009, 08:40 PM
For right now im leaving the scooper in place and am going to just close the ball valve on the thru hull for now. I will get some photos up soon, like i said im looking for one more pump-everthing is in place and just need it. This has been about the 5th change ive gone thru on the filling system.

moombadaze
08-04-2009, 12:31 PM
4th pump is now bought, should be installed tonight and might get to test it all out after work one night this week

Fman
08-05-2009, 01:48 AM
the jabsco's in my boat (09 OBV) shut off when they sense no water being pumped.

It's rare one will ever need to replace the entire pump, but the bearings in the impellor (and blades) will eventually wear and need to be replaced and that typically costs about $30 - $35 ea.

They are having problems with the JABSCO pumps, if you follow wakeworld, many mastercraft and malibu boats are having issues with impellers. I believe the impeller rebuild kits are running about $50 each. Not that it will happen to you, but the longevity of an impeller driven pump and aerator pumps are not the same. You can run an aerator pump forever dry and it will not burn up. Plus as I mentioned, the Tsunamis pump more GPM's than the JABSCO (9 GPM-Jabsco, 13.4 for the Tsunami). Downfall to the aerator pump is it will not create its own prime, and will not stop water from going past the pump like the impeller drive JABSCO reversible will do. And the impeller pumps (JABSCO) will draft water up to 10 ft. The Tsunami's need to be mounted lower than the draft in the boat to work properly.

This is why the '08's and older have seperate drain pumps on each bag that are aerator pumps. I was surprised Supra/Moomba did not leave the drain pumps in place just for the sake of not having someone burn there pump up when they drain the bag. Definitel improvement on the impeller pumps, but if the sensor fails it will burn the pump up. Surprised they did not use the Jabsco to fill and the aerator pump to drain the bags. Guess time will tell how it works.

I hope your JABSCO's hold up well for you. They are nice pumps, and work great as long as they never run dry.

P.S. I saw your picture of you surfing, nice wake! although, dude come on out to California so you can loose that wetsuit!!!! :)

Fman
08-07-2009, 12:54 AM
I've had my share of SoCal where the boat ramps cost big $$ and the lakes are crowded as hell! Used to live in Playa Del Rey (went to St. Monica's), Palos Verdes and Murrieta.

Used to haunt Hermosa and Redondo for ocean surfing and Elsinore for boating

That wet suit is only on late December thru early march. Even during the winter months, our lakes are warmer than the pacific during the summer

Obviosuly you have never been to Northern California and rivers, Delta - 3000 miles of water way, complete glass! No wet suit required, not to mention the 30+ lakes in Northern California. Guess I am fortunate enough not to go out on the weekends, all my boarding is during the weekdays.

If I lived in So. Cal I would not even own a boat! probably just a surfboard!

Fman
08-07-2009, 02:12 PM
Nope, never boated in Northern Ca, but yes have been there.



When I'm standing on my house roof, I can see 30+ skiable lakes that are within a 5 mile radius of my house.

If you ever get a chance to come to Nor Cal, go ski the delta, its the best skiing water in the world. You can always get away from people because of the miles and miles of water ways. The channels allow the waves to break quickly and wind does not affect the waterways like on a lake.

Sounds like you have a great setup. I would love to be able to see 30 lakes from my rooftop, maybe someday when I retire :)

Have fun out there.... and let us know how your impeller systems are working. Personally, I hope Supra/Moomba go away from the bag system in there newer upcoming models. I went out on my friends Malibu LSV, what a sweet ballast setup, you can individually fill every tank to a certain level.... cutting edge technology. And you dont loose any ski locker space with the bags filling! along with no air pockets ballooning your bags!

I heard Supra is adding some type of gauge setup in 2010, I think they are asking for problems doing this with a bag system. I guess we will see how it works in time...

tazz3069
08-07-2009, 08:28 PM
it will kind of hard to gauge the level of water in a bag system. If anything, they might have it times. For example, 4 min = 200lbs. i am just taking a guess. I has asked my dealer about the changes. There's not much. they are keeping the bags. they said that they might put in a screen like the Maliview. we'll see what happens.

Fman
08-08-2009, 02:20 PM
it will kind of hard to gauge the level of water in a bag system. If anything, they might have it times. For example, 4 min = 200lbs. i am just taking a guess. I has asked my dealer about the changes. There's not much. they are keeping the bags. they said that they might put in a screen like the Maliview. we'll see what happens.

After you ride in the Malibu with Mali-view it makes you realize how antiquated the Supra/Moomba ballast system is! Malibu has cutting edge technology, it is awesome. Although, I would still take my Supra over the LSV, I like my boat configuration better. Hands down Malibu has the best ballast system right now. I wish Supra would just get rid of the bags system and go with hard tanks, its a much better setup. Especially since I am having to upgrade my '08 with vent lines on each bag and a much better fill system.

sandm
08-08-2009, 02:50 PM
I'd be all over the hard tank system if they can keep it below the deck. eating up the rear storage, I'd still rather have the bags.
I haven't seen the maliview system, but I really don't see the benefit to seeing how full the tanks/bags are. I would think either you are a beginner and don't need them, or have advanced enough to want the tanks/bags full, and a screen to watch your stuff fill just detracts from conversing with your peeps on the boat.
I have read about problems, especially with the mastercraft system to add additional bags or replace what is there with a timed system. at least ours is one of the easiest to add extra weight.

personally, I think the flooded tanks under the floor that fill/drain with doors is the future. MB went that route this year and I would think from a quick fill, virtually no parts to replace and ease to use, it's the best way to go.

tazz3069
08-08-2009, 03:44 PM
I have friends that have different boats. One has a Malibu LSV and the other a Centurion Enzo. They both have hard tanks in their boats. They still have tons of rooms for stuff. I can only wish that I had the same set up. I do really love my 07' LSV. I just do not like the bags. You loose room when full and they do not drain all the way.

Fman
08-10-2009, 04:22 PM
I'd be all over the hard tank system if they can keep it below the deck. eating up the rear storage, I'd still rather have the bags.
I haven't seen the maliview system, but I really don't see the benefit to seeing how full the tanks/bags are. I would think either you are a beginner and don't need them, or have advanced enough to want the tanks/bags full, and a screen to watch your stuff fill just detracts from conversing with your peeps on the boat.
I have read about problems, especially with the mastercraft system to add additional bags or replace what is there with a timed system. at least ours is one of the easiest to add extra weight.

personally, I think the flooded tanks under the floor that fill/drain with doors is the future. MB went that route this year and I would think from a quick fill, virtually no parts to replace and ease to use, it's the best way to go.

I agree, MB and Calabria are using the pure vert system which is awesome. Only downfall to this system is you cant fill the tanks while moving, but who really cares about that. The Malibu system is real nice because every rider is at different levels and uses different size ballast weights. It lets you program each rider and there ballast/wedge setup/speed. Its real nice, even tu just be able to fill it 50% or 30%, depending on what your needs are. With MB you get 2,500 lbs of ballast in 60 seconds, which is awesome. No pumps, only better.

The Supra/Moomba system in my opinion has too many cons. You can add weight which is nice, but other than that there are no pro's. And loosing space when filling the sacs is a bummer, not that you cant work around it, but it still is not a good functional setup. Thankfully if you have a Z5 rack other than vests/ropes in the ski lockers you dont need to put anything else in there. Supra needs to match the ballast system to the boat they are selling. They sell a very nice boat with a low-grade ballast system. Malibu also has 1,300 lbs of hard ballast which is nice for a hard tank system.

My fill system is finally "adequate", and now I am working on venting the bags, which is exactly what Supra should have done to begin with. This will also help them drain better to eliminate the "vaccuum" effect while draining.

Anyway, just my .02..... I still like my Supra and have a great time on the water with it. I also paid $25k less than my friends Malibu LSV, and I cant say I would take his Malibu over my Supra.

Fman
08-10-2009, 04:28 PM
I also forgot to mention, another reason I selected the Tsunami's over the JABSCO pumps was the AMP draw. The JABSCO pumps draw about 9 amps per pump x 3 = 27 amps. Tsunami 800's use 1.8 amps per pump x 3 = 5.5. You are using less amps with all 3 tsunamis running than one JABSCO pump. This is significant, especially if you are draining/filling without the boat running.

jasonwm
08-10-2009, 08:22 PM
Thanks for posting the summary of your install Travis, hopefully that will prove beneficial to other owners that are frustrated by the functionality of their factory system.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

akamax_power
08-11-2009, 06:24 PM
I'm thinking about doing this upgrade myself. My question is though, I didn't see any filter setup within your manifold, do you not need one?

jasonwm
08-12-2009, 03:18 PM
I'm thinking about doing this upgrade myself. My question is though, I didn't see any filter setup within your manifold, do you not need one?
In our experience, when you remove the sprinkler valves it's no longer necessary to have the filter in place. The primary function of that filter in the factory system is to prevent lake debris from plugging the diaphragm in the sprinkler valves, which causes them to fail. Once you remove the sprinkler valves, that's no longer a concern, and helps increase the flow of water.

cab13367
10-03-2009, 11:16 PM
Fman,

Nice work. Since you redid the whole system, did u consider upgrading everything to 1" (hoses, fittings, etc.)? I believe the intake pipe is 1", isn't it?

Fman
10-03-2009, 11:51 PM
Fman,

Nice work. Since you redid the whole system, did u consider upgrading everything to 1" (hoses, fittings, etc.)? I believe the intake pipe is 1", isn't it?

My stock intake grate/scupper is 3/4". The Tsunami 1200's have no adaptors for them because of the strange thread pattern they used. You will definitely get better GPM flow with a 1" line. If you chose to do my setup with the 1200's, you would need to have a seperate intake for each pump. The 3/4" intake grate will support up to 40 GPM, anything above and beyond this would need its own intake. With the (3)Tsunami 800's running you will get about 39 GPM, with (3) 1200's running you will pump 60 GPM.

I chose the 800's because I was happy with 39 GPM, but it would only get better with the 1200's. It was easy to make a manifold for the 800's (NPT thread) and its a clean looking setup. I know you can use the 1200's, it requires multiple fittings. Either way, its such a huge performance upgrade from the stock sprinkler valve setup.

newty
10-06-2009, 07:39 PM
Fman, since your not going to use that silly ole' Rule pump why don't you send it my way?