Boat Shows 2024

[MJHSupra]

It's about time for the boat show season to get into swing. I noticed Chicago, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Houston, etc. are in the month of January 2024. Drew or someone from the factory usually posts on here the exact dates and cities where they will attend with dealers. Always good to talk with them.

If you are going to one, what are you liking and/or not liking for any of the brands?

[MJHSupra]

Just noticed a post on Facebook from Drew:

January 5-7th
918 Boats - Oklahoma Boat Expo (Tulsa)
Ski and Sports - NWA Boat and Outdoor Expo (Rogers, AR)

January 10-14th
Active Water Sports - Portland Boat Show
Silver Sands Marina - New England Boat Show
The Boat House of Chicago - Chicago Boat Show

January 11-14th
Atlanta Marine - Atlanta Boat Show
Skiers Marine - Huntsville Boat Show

January 12-14th
David's Sports Center - OKC Boat Show (Oklahoma City)


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[Mobius22]

We will have someone at most of the shows listed. I'll be in ATL

[sandm]

If you are going to one, what are you liking and/or not liking for any of the brands?

believe it or not with all that goes on here in sin city, boat shows are nonexistent. skiers choice hasn't had a presence in the 6 years I've been here with one small dealer losing moomba for supreme(they also had nautty so makes sense and lost supreme 3 years ago) and no supra here for many years. bu/axis dealer pretty much runs the valley and almost every wakeboat you see here are one of those 2 brands. I don't think I've seen a 10 year old or newer skiers/tige product here or on the lake since arriving here.

with pricing and interest rates currently I wonder how traffic will be this year for all vendors not just wakeboats. mc and bu are calling for substantial sales declines into 2024 and I would suspect it's across all builders.

[cucv]

I was hoping to see the new Moomba Bimini but dealer stock for New England Boat show isn't showing any stock with the upgraded Bimini, I'm guessing they will have the Tykon to check out.

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[MJHSupra]

We will have someone at most of the shows listed. I'll be in ATL

ATL is a good show. Enjoyed it when I lived there.

I recall this lights/letters from last year’s social media posts. First time I seen something like this.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240105/376defc8cda08b7e31743cb78ff1b0b5.jpg


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[Mobius22]

They're going to have something similar again this year. It's a cool setup

[RUGER761]

Stopped by the Tulsa show last night. Pretty good show and vip night is def nicer not dealing with the big cowds. They didn't have a new tower/bimini yet but did get to check out the Tykon. Supra/Moomba still my pick if I was in the market for a new one from what I saw.

[MJHSupra]

Stopped by the Tulsa show last night. Pretty good show and vip night is def nicer not dealing with the big cowds. They didn't have a new tower/bimini yet but did get to check out the Tykon. Supra/Moomba still my pick if I was in the market for a new one from what I saw.

Do you have a lot of the different brands at that show?

[HFarr]

I am hoping to get by the Atlanta show next weekend!

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[RUGER761]

Do you have a lot of the different brands at that show?

This show had a good variety for a smaller one. Supra, Moomba, Malibu, Axis, Tige, Nautique, and Centurion, then other various non wake boats. At the end of the month is the larger boat and travel show, but the wake boat dealers don't really display at it anymore minus Malibu MC and all the wake pontoons.

[MJHSupra]

I am hoping to get by the Atlanta show next weekend!

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I noticed a post on social media this AM from Singleton Marine on the new Malibu at the ATL show:
2024 LSV - $180K (for the $248,588 MSRP)
2023 LSV - $140K (must have a few leftover 23s.)

I did not see any fine print to see if that compares apples to apples on the motors and options.

[cucv]

We had a great time at the boat show last night and come away super happy with our Mojo. After a season on the boat, it really highlights details that may go underappreciated.

The SV is a sweet looking boat!

The Tige Ultra ZX had some cool touches with great access in and out of the boat onto the swim platform. The Ultralounge seemed a bit odd at first but then it really clicked, how cool is it to have a forward facing copilot seat. The forward facing elevated seats could be a pretty sweet experience too. I can't believe it costs 3x Mojo's.

The Centurion Fe22 main cockpit felt like it was 23 ft long but sacrifices bow space. Impressive Ballast capacity in a 22' boat. It's cool to see that it had a trunk but seems like it may be to shallow for board storage. Great flex space with an option for plug and play Ballast. At $140k msrp it comes in at a unique price point between Craz and SV. Seems like a surfers boat!


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[Holdmybeer]

I noticed a post on social media this AM from Singleton Marine on the new Malibu at the ATL show:
2024 LSV - $180K (for the $248,588 MSRP)
2023 LSV - $140K (must have a few leftover 23s.)

I did not see any fine print to see if that compares apples to apples on the motors and options.

The $140k number tracks with Ohio dealers late fall prices on 2023 leftovers. MSRP was $215k on the 2023.

[MJHSupra]

I figured the SV would be getting some good reviews during the shows this year.


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[MJHSupra]

The Tige Ultra ZX had some cool touches with great access in and out of the boat onto the swim platform. The Ultralounge seemed a bit odd at first but then it really clicked, how cool is it to have a forward facing copilot seat. The forward facing elevated seats could be a pretty sweet experience too. I can't believe it costs 3x Mojo's.

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That’s looks like a cool boat. Never rode on one in the lake, but climbed around a few at the shows. I was pleasantly surprised, but not with the price tag.


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[sandm]

The Tige Ultra ZX had some cool touches with great access in and out of the boat onto the swim platform. The forward facing elevated seats could be a pretty sweet experience too.
The Centurion Fe22 main cockpit felt like it was 23 ft long but sacrifices bow space. Impressive Ballast capacity in a 22' boat. At $140k msrp it comes in at a unique price point between Craz and SV. Seems like a surfers boat!


rode on a sanger a while back that had a fiberglass piece over the platform to make it easier to get gear on. it was an absolute pita and almost everyone hated it. wonder how much of a pita the tige piece will be for putting on wakeboards while sitting on the platform. not that anyone boards anymore :) different concept but the old tige 2300v had 2 front facing captains chairs and wasn't a popular feature-gone on the 24ve.. the forward facing seats on top of the sundeck will get you a ticket in almost every state for not being "inside" the boat under way if over 5mph.

if the fe22 carries the same dna as other centurions, it'll be a beast of a surf boat out of the box.

[larry_arizona]

Does the Fe22 replace the short lived Vi?


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[Holdmybeer]

Does the Fe22 replace the short lived Vi?


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You are correct.

[larry_arizona]

I think the Vi only lasted 2 or 3 years.


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[2in2out]

rode on a sanger a while back that had a fiberglass piece over the platform to make it easier to get gear on. it was an absolute pita and almost everyone hated it. wonder how much of a pita the tige piece will be for putting on wakeboards while sitting on the platform. not that anyone boards anymore :)

We loved the bench on our Sanger. Only issue with it was it pooled water and it would get too hot to sit on. It helped reduce the “Station wagon effect” of exhaust in the cabin too.


2022 SA 450

[sandm]

onlyinboards is up to almost 6k in listings(has to be a record high). over half are 2023/2024. something tells me there will be some deals to be had come mid-summer.

[brad460]

I am glad there is a big price correction happening- all the greedy manufacturers who rode the wave and raised prices and the financially irresponsible buyers who over-paid for boats deserve a financial beating…

I noticed Malibu is now offering a new boat model for $99k and Axis is offering a new boat model for $89k..When was the last time a Malibu was under $100k?!

Moomba is begging people to trade-in their boats for a new one…

[MJHSupra]

I am glad there is a big price correction happening- all the greedy manufacturers who rode the wave and raised prices and the financially irresponsible buyers who over-paid for boats deserve a financial beating…

I noticed Malibu is now offering a new boat model for $99k and Axis is offering a new boat model for $89k..When was the last time a Malibu was under $100k?!

Moomba is begging people to trade-in their boats for a new one…

That is good someone has entry level for around $100k. Not sure what that includes/excludes, but it might get peeps in the door, looking, and asking.

Last I looked, I thought Heyday was approaching 80-100K boats, but offer 4-5 different models too.

[MJHSupra]

onlyinboards is up to almost 6k in listings(has to be a record high). over half are 2023/2024. something tells me there will be some deals to be had come mid-summer.

Maybe the dealers will have to dust off those old negotiation skills. I think some sales peeps over the last few years were getting 'short' with people with the attitude of 'if you do not buy it, the next person will". True in cases since the Covid timeframe.

[mgswake]

I am glad there is a big price correction happening- all the greedy manufacturers who rode the wave and raised prices and the financially irresponsible buyers who over-paid for boats deserve a financial beating…



I don't feel bad for the dealers/manufactures for a second. However, I do feel bad for some people that wanted a boat and didn't quite understand finances very well. I bet a lot of dealers were explaining how boats have appreciated and that was likely a sales pitch for some. Also, just because you can afford a 20 year note monthly payment, can you really afford that boat? I bet many will be upside down. Lots of different scenarios with each buyer, but I blame the 20 year notes from the lenders and the manufactures about 80% of the blame. Just my 2 cents.

[MJHSupra]

Also read back in December where National Marine Manufacturing Association (NMMA) said the overall US boats sales were back to 2013 levels. I recall a Wall Street Journal article discussing the big slide down from the 2020-2021 numbers.”


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[sandm]

I don't feel bad for the dealers/manufactures for a second. However, I do feel bad for some people that wanted a boat and didn't quite understand finances very well.
I do agree that I won't feel bad for any dealers/builders that are hurting as almost all took piles of cash from the gov't during covid and within a few months of that handout started to see record sales. the cash train never stopped for most. I do not feel for MOST of the consumers tho. someone who has the income/down/debt to income to buy a 6-figure toy should also have enough sense to understand basic finances and research a major purchase but at least here in sin city there is such a race to keep up with the Jones'....... sometimes a lesson needs to be painful to learn.

[larry_arizona]

I have a different perspective in general especially about buying toys.

No part of me wants a OEM to struggle, last thing any of us who enjoy this wakeboat experience is for an OEM to struggle and go out of business. Same can be said for dealers.

You either can afford this game or you can't.

This is what America is built on, Capitalism. I will roll with the peaks and valleys of capitalism any day versus socialism/communism.

Work hard and play as hard as you can, as I get older I see the value in enjoying life while I can still have fun doing it with the people I love.

Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive.


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[MJHSupra]

I have a different perspective in general especially about buying toys.

No part of me wants a OEM to struggle, last thing any of us who enjoy this wakeboat experience is for an OEM to struggle and go out of business. Same can be said for dealers.

You either can afford this game or you can't.

This is what America is built on, Capitalism. I will roll with the peaks and valleys of capitalism any day versus socialism/communism.

Work hard and play as hard as you can, as I get older I see the value in enjoying life while I can still have fun doing it with the people I love.

Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive.


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Who was the last OEM to go out of business - Epic Boats from the mid-2000s? They sold both wake and bay boats.

[sandm]

Who was the last OEM to go out of business - Epic Boats from the mid-2000s? They sold both wake and bay boats.

epic was the spinoff by toyota boats when they realized they should stick to cars. I believe that they had one year back in the early 2000's where you could buy an epic and a toyota and they were same boat. epic made it until at least 2012 but not long after that.
2008ish was what started to kill off several small builders- some from up north...
gekko
calabria
wakecraft
svfara
wakecraft/gekko tried to make a comeback 5 or so years ago but it was a horrid looking boat with awful reviews and not sure anyone actually saw and purchased a production model. looked like their old mold with a newer engine/tower.

I would not be surprised with a continued slowdown in boat sales thru 2024 that sanger goes next. MB is the only other small line left and they seem to have enough of a core business to weather the current situation. most all the other lines are tied in with 2 or 3 builders so if a line goes away, the builder is still around with other brands.

[HFarr]

I have a different perspective in general especially about buying toys.

No part of me wants a OEM to struggle, last thing any of us who enjoy this wakeboat experience is for an OEM to struggle and go out of business. Same can be said for dealers.

You either can afford this game or you can't.

This is what America is built on, Capitalism. I will roll with the peaks and valleys of capitalism any day versus socialism/communism.

Work hard and play as hard as you can, as I get older I see the value in enjoying life while I can still have fun doing it with the people I love.

Don't take life too seriously, nobody gets out alive.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYour last couple of paragraphs are absolutely the truth! I SALUTE THAT!!!

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[JimLevin]

Anybody seeing any deals? Sorta seems like back to business as usual. Precovid sorta. Decent stock. Supra 19% to 20% off MSRP. Moomba about 15% ~ 17% off MSRP. 2023 leftover Supra models only seem to be about 25% ~ 26% off msrp.

[KnoxMojo]

Anybody seeing any deals? Sorta seems like back to business as usual. Precovid sorta. Decent stock. Supra 19% to 20% off MSRP. Moomba about 15% ~ 17% off MSRP. 2023 leftover Supra models only seem to be about 25% ~ 26% off msrp.

There is a nice 2020 SA on the Supra page and only inboards for 112k! Dealers are really dealing on the leftover 23s, saw a few SL and SA going for 130ish to 150 depending on options

[MJHSupra]

I agree with @KnoxMojo. Seen some nice color schemes on 2021s and 2022s for used boats @ decent prices and hours.

There are leftover 2023s that are deals, some have the funky color patterns. Mostly SA and SL.

[mgswake]

Anyone make it to a recent boat show. I was really looking forward to going to the Charlotte boat show but was unable to make it. Last weekend was the Columbia boat show, but I had to work on the shoreline and a bunch of other things in the yard and missed that one to. I wasn't as bummed about Columbia because Malibu/Axis and Mastercraft are the only dealers that go. Mostly fishing/bass and center console boats at that show. Still a good time and fun to see other boats.

[sandm]

going to be an interesting spring for boat sales...
don't see the interest rate market changing much until at least mid summer. only inboards is packed with boats and 70% are 2021 and newer.
m/c and 'bu posted quarterly results beginning of this month and both show quarterly sales down 40% YoY and margins are way down indicating they are discounting more than the last few years.

my takeaway... if you are looking to buy skip new as I see some desperate sellers that are upside down in newer boats/holdovers at dealers and if you are looking to sell, those with 2020's and older are still sitting decently but anyone with newer boats are going to see some decent depreciation.

couple holdover 2023 sa's in the 150's and several 2024 sa's all over 210k. granted options can tick up quickly but that's a big spread.

[larry_arizona]

Only saw one low option new 2023 SA for 163k

Couple low option 23SA's with 100 ish hours around 150's

But interest rates are still awful.


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[sandm]

Only saw one low option new 2023 SA for 163k



https://www.onlyinboards.com/2023-Supra-SA450-Blowout-rebates-available--for-sale-Burrillville-Rhode-Island-158376.aspx

149k. new. and it's a 450. granted doesn't have all the option boxes ticked but for a savings of over 60k you could sure add anything missing that you "have to have". a couple of the other new leftovers aren't priced on OI but I have it on good authority that they are in the 150-160's with discounts.

point is the wakeboat industry is likely in for a rough spring/summer and you are 100% correct on interest rates. it's a big contributor to the market.

bet there's a few dealers out there trying to delay/cancel dealerstock 2024 boat orders.

[sandm]

same dealer:
https://www.riwatersports.com/New-Inventory-2023-Moomba-Boat-Kaiyen-Rhode-Island-Water-Sports-14199134?ref=list

that's only 9k more than the kaiyen I spec'ed out in 2020 new and looks to be optioned pretty similar with racks/bimini/wetsounds.

brand new starts at 116k before options. wonder how many paid in the upper 120's last year being told the boat market will continue to appreciate and now we seem to be getting back to a normal cycle of discounts off msrp and depreciation as soon as you get 'er wet :)

[KnoxMojo]

going to be an interesting spring for boat sales...
don't see the interest rate market changing much until at least mid summer. only inboards is packed with boats and 70% are 2021 and newer.
m/c and 'bu posted quarterly results beginning of this month and both show quarterly sales down 40% YoY and margins are way down indicating they are discounting more than the last few years.

my takeaway... if you are looking to buy skip new as I see some desperate sellers that are upside down in newer boats/holdovers at dealers and if you are looking to sell, those with 2020's and older are still sitting decently but anyone with newer boats are going to see some decent depreciation.

couple holdover 2023 sa's in the 150's and several 2024 sa's all over 210k. granted options can tick up quickly but that's a big spread.

Looking on Only Inboards sold section, there hasn't been much sold the last few months. Prices are dropping like crazy. Saw a 21 SL for 115, 23 23lsv for 145 among others, and they aren't selling. There's a 20 or 21 on Facebook that's going to 108 or so. People are either upgrading or selling to get out, or finally took it on the chin in this economy enough to cut their losses and move on. Deals to be had for all cash buyers. This extended rate hike is catching up to most everyone in some way.

[HFarr]

I have been getting emails all the time recently from Moomba about trading in my 2021.

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[MJHSupra]

I have been getting emails all the time recently from Moomba about trading in my 2021.

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I’ve read several posts on other forums/social media about buyers in the market and ready to buy, but are getting quoted really low trade in offers on their current boats. These were BU and MC models.

Assume a lot of this has to do with the market you are in too.


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[HFarr]

Probably so, but I'm happy with what I have. Don't get me wrong, Im not saying I wouldn't mind something even better. That's probably always true, but I got mine just literally a couple of weeks before the market jumped up. So I am sitting pretty and am not actively looking to upgrade.

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[sandm]

I’ve read several posts on other forums/social media about buyers in the market and ready to buy, but are getting quoted realistic trade in offers on their current boats. These were BU and MC models.

Assume a lot of this has to do with the market you are in too.


fixed it for ya :)

[HFarr]

LOL! Tell the dealer you read it on the internet so it must be true!

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[MJHSupra]

fixed it for ya :)

100%

I think that crowd of “my boat is worth XYZ” is starting to get smaller and smaller.


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[larry_arizona]

Reality is boats are going to be a lot like homes, those who own or have a low interest rate are just going to stay in with what they have.

Nobody going to take a negative equity into a new high interest loan scenario.

I don't care what "deals" are out there, that will only benefit cash buyers, interest is still the killer.


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[sandm]

100%

I think that crowd of “my boat is worth XYZ” is starting to get smaller and smaller.


agreed. I think this is going to be a good year to be a buyer and an awful year to be a seller/dealer/builder IF your whip is 2021 or newer but I suspect next year will be back to a more "normal" market with deals, discounts and depreciation.

[j.mo]

Just got back from the boat show.

Tige and Malibu very aggressively trying to move leftover 2023 inventory.

Every other manufacturer apparently believes it is still 2020 and imo will continue to sit on their inventory.

I took a look also at RV’s, and a few dealers are also aggressively trying to move 2023 inventory.

I think the end of the season, September or so might get very interesting as 2025 arrivals begin to show up


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[cucv]

Even with the "great" discounts on left over boats I struggle to spend this kind of money on a boat that isn't optioned as I'd like it. The local Tige dealer has a left over that I really like but it's missing a few options I want and has a few I'd prefer not to spend money on.

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[KnoxMojo]

Even with the "great" discounts on left over boats I struggle to spend this kind of money on a boat that isn't optioned as I'd like it. The local Tige dealer has a left over that I really like but it's missing a few options I want and has a few I'd prefer not to spend money on.

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Agreed, when you're spending that type of money, if it's not everything you want, and not a killer deal, I wouldn't buy either. Got really lucky with mine being a leftover 18, was totally optioned out as it was their boat show marquee boat for that year

[MJHSupra]

Weird to think about dealers still selling leftover 2023s, we are now getting into mid-March and the 2025s will be popping out of the molds in Aug - that is less than 6 months away. Dang what a big change a few years' makes.

[larry_arizona]

Weird to think about dealers still selling leftover 2023s, we are now getting into mid-March and the 2025s will be popping out of the molds in Aug - that is less than 6 months away. Dang what a big change a few years' makes.

Saturated market no doubt.

Some odd things going on in my opinion. Somewhat related.....

I just picked up a smoking deal on a 2023 F150 after looking to order a 2024.

Ford has yet to sell a 2024 F150 and we are in March and were building 2023's into late December.


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[MJHSupra]

Saturated market no doubt.

Some odd things going on in my opinion. Somewhat related.....

I just picked up a smoking deal on a 2023 F150 after looking to order a 2024.

Ford has yet to sell a 2024 F150 and we are in March and were building 2023's into late December.

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Very odd in the auto world. What motor did you go with?

I recall reading something about "quality checks" and delays on some of the trucks, but did not know what that actually means. I would assume there are still supply chain issues and recall viewing something on the news where the new trucks were just lined up outside. I'm sure any recalls are very costly once something gets out the door and needs to be recalled and fixed.

[larry_arizona]

3.5 Eco max tow package.

I have only seen this delay happen on trucks once before and that was due to CAFE standards.

My gut says Ford banked on selling far more EV's to offset CAFE requirements and can't sell 2024's yet because of it.

2024 has a slight mid cycle enhancement (new grills, headlights and taillights basically)and I can't see one part in that update that is holding up selling them.

Also, Ford is heavily pushing the 3.5 power boost hybrid and I read that the 3.5 Eco was not available for order temporarily on 2024's. This adds to my CAFE theory.

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[j.mo]

Weird to think about dealers still selling leftover 2023s, we are now getting into mid-March and the 2025s will be popping out of the molds in Aug - that is less than 6 months away. Dang what a big change a few years' makes.

I tried to explain that to the tige sales guy.
I said this boat is 2 years old, they are going to stop making parts for it soon.
He said how so, we are in March of 24.
I said exactly, q1 is over, and you received that boat in aug of 22, 25s will be here in a mere matter of months.
Msrp was $218, marked down to $147.
He said I’m cost plus 10, I said well it’s looking like cost minus 10.
He said im not going to lose money, I said how do you figure you already are not having a 2 year old leftover.


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[MJHSupra]

Tough sale for the dealer. During their glory days, they had every boat sold. So when July and August came around, they did not have to sit on inventory. They waited for the new models.

Since the dealers are locked into taking boats, if they have slots for June and July and interest rates are still high, not a good sales position as the new models are rolling in and they have committed to those too.

Guess it also depends on how much the model changes. For example, if you have a leftover 2023 SE, that model was just redesigned. It would be tough to look at the 23 vs 24 with all the new features and soon to have 2025 updates (not sure how much will change, usually small stuff).


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[sandm]

this is heading back to 2008-2010. lots of boats sat on the market for a long time and several dealers in my old stomping grounds went out of business.
I don't envy anyone in a position that HAS to sell a post-2020 purchased boat. if I was in the market i'd sit until aug1. I see more deals around the corner. OI continues to creep up.

it's funny tho with the car market. I've been looking for an older sports car to replace the camaro I sold last august. looking in the 6-12 year old 20-25k market and most vehicles I have sourced are selling in a week or so if they are clean.

[skiyaker]

I was within a signature of trading my 2008 OBV in on a left over 2023 Craz. But then the dealer showed me a different price then what was on the boat tag and when I noticed that he told me the boat show deals had expired. Then when I started to walk out of the dealership he "called the factory" and reported back he could still get the discount but only if I could get my boat to him for inspection within 24 hours and I had to close on the new boat within 72 hours or the price would increase $5k. I didn't like the sales tactics so I left. That dealership has many 2023 models still in the showroom.

[cucv]

I'm not so sure it's a sales tactic, it's the end of boat show season and the discount is likely to really expire. I dragged my feet last year and lost out on the boat show discount. There was a lull, I stayed engaged and another discount came around. It's an odd year where dealers will be sitting on inventory but my guess is it's better to trade today than in a few months where their could be even more inventory.


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[skiyaker]

I told the guy it sounds like the factory is hard to deal with. Which makes the dealer's job difficult and I'm not surprised this particular one has a lot of 2023 models sitting around. But I didn't like that he tried to show me a number that was $5K higher than what was shown on the boat and hoped I wouldn't notice. I have had an entirely different experience at the Malibu delear (who also has many 2023 leftovers).

[KnoxMojo]

Floor plan is going to start impacting dealers heavily. They'll start blowing out boats soon. Especially when the 25s drop and they're still sitting on 23s.

[sandm]

Floor plan is going to start impacting dealers heavily. They'll start blowing out boats soon. Especially when the 25s drop and they're still sitting on 23s.

this.
I would bet money there's still the same margins in the boats just at a higher price. moomba's historically have not had large discounts but I'd be surprised to not see supra discounting heavily in the next few months.
keeping in mind that 23's and soon 24's can be sold as "leftovers" and at that point territories don't apply anymore for most boat lines. worth some time to shop other dealers and transport. saved me over 15k from the price I was quoted at my closest tige dealer on my last new boat purchasing from a dealer 1500 miles away and paying for transport. I can put up with a lot of crap/waiting from the service side for that kind of savings.

[KnoxMojo]

SandM, it'll also affect used boats, already seeing smoking deals unheard of the last few years. Cash buyers are king! Or those that don't care about the rate.

[KnoxMojo]

this.
I would bet money there's still the same margins in the boats just at a higher price. moomba's historically have not had large discounts but I'd be surprised to not see supra discounting heavily in the next few months.
keeping in mind that 23's and soon 24's can be sold as "leftovers" and at that point territories don't apply anymore for most boat lines. worth some time to shop other dealers and transport. saved me over 15k from the price I was quoted at my closest tige dealer on my last new boat purchasing from a dealer 1500 miles away and paying for transport. I can put up with a lot of crap/waiting from the service side for that kind of savings.

Was told by my dealer that new leftover boats are still a territory thing, not sure when it changed, but it did. That's if the dealer "knowingly" sells.. but a leftover is easy to transfer to the purchasing dealer. Everyone wins

[sandm]

Was told by my dealer that new leftover boats are still a territory thing, not sure when it changed, but it did. That's if the dealer "knowingly" sells.. but a leftover is easy to transfer to the purchasing dealer. Everyone wins

might have changed and might be a dealer that is trying to keep business from leaving. also might be a brand thing.
one thing I have learned over the years are that dealers, no matter the product, will sometimes say anything to keep or earn business. never hurts to call another dealer and ask and IF the market continues to soften, I wouldn't bet on that out of state saying sorry, go to your local.
I'd pass on the transfer unless it's in writing that price is the same to transfer(sans shipping). bet it won't be.

[KnoxMojo]

might have changed and might be a dealer that is trying to keep business from leaving. also might be a brand thing.
one thing I have learned over the years are that dealers, no matter the product, will sometimes say anything to keep or earn business. never hurts to call another dealer and ask and IF the market continues to soften, I wouldn't bet on that out of state saying sorry, go to your local.
I'd pass on the transfer unless it's in writing that price is the same to transfer(sans shipping). bet it won't be.

Came straight from the owner when I had a friend recently out of Atlanta inquiring about a leftover. But yes, always worth checking other dealers as I'm sure some don't care.

[sandm]

might be your proximity to ground zero. I'd be lying if I wasn't a little envious of your location being so close to skiers and 'bu. I'd love a factory tour and rick/drew would have a hard time kicking me out.... :)

[KnoxMojo]

might be your proximity to ground zero. I'd be lying if I wasn't a little envious of your location being so close to skiers and 'bu. I'd love a factory tour and rick/drew would have a hard time kicking me out.... :)

C'mon out and visit MJH and myself anytime! He lives about a half mile away.. lol

[sandm]

C'mon out and visit MJH and myself anytime! He lives about a half mile away.. lol

be careful what you put out there :) :)

it would be a cool experience imo to do factory tours at both. my perception is skiers spends more time on q/c-build quality and 'bu more about churning boats out. would love to see the difference between both plants.

[KnoxMojo]

be careful what you put out there :) :)

it would be a cool experience imo to do factory tours at both. my perception is skiers spends more time on q/c-build quality and 'bu more about churning boats out. would love to see the difference between both plants.

I don't put it out there lightly. But we've hosted our fair share of outta town folks that love these wake boats.

[HFarr]

I don't put it out there lightly. But we've hosted our fair share of outta town folks that love these wake boats.Ok! I'm in!!! [emoji846]

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[KnoxMojo]

Ok! I'm in!!! [emoji846]

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C'mon up! You're not too far anyway. Get a good lake day in while you're up!

[sandm]

I don't put it out there lightly. But we've hosted our fair share of outta town folks that love these wake boats.

as have I but the best one was the 8 guys from virginia that "rented" me and the boat for the day on mead. $325 ticket for one riding on the sundeck and groom lost his brand new iphone in the lake. was still a crazy fun day tho.

[mgswake]

I think I posted this in another thread, but not this one.

I tossed around the idea of upgrading to a SL450 mainly because I have a buddy that likes to ride full ballast wakeboarding and the SL400 struggled with full ballast until I repropped the boat (it does well now).

Anyway, my SL400 was MSRP 216K. Obviously, I did not pay that, but the dealer was offering me 140K on trade. I spec'd out a SL450 and added thruster, but no power swim step and the MSRP was around 263k. With the trade and discount I was looking at about 95k to upgrade. (take away ~10k thrusters and ~10k 450, and that's about 75k to upgrade from a 2023 to a 2024).

The dealer even mentioned when I was shopping for my boat that these boats hold value really well and you can upgrade every 2-3 years for very little difference in price. Good thing for me is we love the boat and we are the type of people to hold onto things for awhile (my truck is 2011). I hadn't planned to upgrade, but I did like some of the cool features on the 2024's.

I understand there are new standard features, power seat, new tower, new audio, but when I saw the cost to upgrade I didn't even have to spend more than two seconds on the decision. That was a hard heck no for me.

[Mxmark4]

I think I posted this in another thread, but not this one.

I tossed around the idea of upgrading to a SL450 mainly because I have a buddy that likes to ride full ballast wakeboarding and the SL400 struggled with full ballast until I repropped the boat (it does well now).

Anyway, my SL400 was MSRP 216K. Obviously, I did not pay that, but the dealer was offering me 140K on trade. I spec'd out a SL450 and added thruster, but no power swim step and the MSRP was around 263k. With the trade and discount I was looking at about 95k to upgrade. (take away ~10k thrusters and ~10k 450, and that's about 75k to upgrade from a 2023 to a 2024).

The dealer even mentioned when I was shopping for my boat that these boats hold value really well and you can upgrade every 2-3 years for very little difference in price. Good thing for me is we love the boat and we are the type of people to hold onto things for awhile (my truck is 2011). I hadn't planned to upgrade, but I did like some of the cool features on the 2024's.

I understand there are new standard features, power seat, new tower, new audio, but when I saw the cost to upgrade I didn't even have to spend more than two seconds on the decision. That was a hard heck no for me.

I cant imagine being told that I could upgrade for "very kittle money" and it be a 75k difference.

[mgswake]

I was expecting 5-10k plus 20k for the engine and thrusters. So maybe 30k. The MSRP is only 50k and then figure in a discount. I was a little surprised how little my boat was worth to them after 1 year. Garage/lift 55hrs 2023

[sandm]

I was a little surprised how little my boat was worth to them after 1 year. Garage/lift 55hrs 2023

I would have expected a price more in the 150's based on your numbers but that's still a long way off from what your expectations are.
I believe my cousins 2023 se575 is still sitting at the dealer for consignment sale from last october. in 21 and 22 he went through 3 new boats and sold them in weeks. he's priced WELL below what a similar 2024 will run and only has 65hrs.

your comment on the dealer talking about holding value was completely true from 2020-2023 but in my experience from 2007-2020 these things were a depreciating asset just like a car. we should now be getting back to a more "normal" however imo those that bought in late 2021-2023 are going to feel the pain the most for the next couple of years as the market does return.

[mgswake]

I completely understand and agree boats are depreciating assets, I was just a bit shocked at the amount of depreciation given the increase in new models. I figured the older models would hold a decent value and then you would pay the yearly increase in addition to a small amount of depreciation. However, my quote seemed to me, that it was annual price increase plus large depreciation.

I knew going in this was likely to happen as the market was just insane during covid. I was tracking used G23 since 2017 and they were slowly dropping into the 80-90k range for 2014-2016 model year boats. But then in 2021 those same boats which were 2 years older jumped to 100-110k.

That ridiculous market is why I bought new. I looked at used boats and there was no way I was paying someone more money for their used boat than they paid new. I saw a lot of arguments on FB about how that was or was not going to last. It’s going to be tough for the folks that stretched for a payment only to find out if they want to sell they are going to likely lose a good bit of money.

[KnoxMojo]

I completely understand and agree boats are depreciating assets, I was just a bit shocked at the amount of depreciation given the increase in new models. I figured the older models would hold a decent value and then you would pay the yearly increase in addition to a small amount of depreciation. However, my quote seemed to me, that it was annual price increase plus large depreciation.

I knew going in this was likely to happen as the market was just insane during covid. I was tracking used G23 since 2017 and they were slowly dropping into the 80-90k range for 2014-2016 model year boats. But then in 2021 those same boats which were 2 years older jumped to 100-110k.

That ridiculous market is why I bought new. I looked at used boats and there was no way I was paying someone more money for their used boat than they paid new. I saw a lot of arguments on FB about how that was or was not going to last. It’s going to be tough for the folks that stretched for a payment only to find out if they want to sell they are going to likely lose a good bit of money.

Your boat didn't depreciate that much, it's just what the dealer is offering. Friend of mine got a low trade in offer on his 2 year old G23 for a Paragon. Sold on his own for about 25-30k more.

[HFarr]

I agree with that last statement. The dealer isn't going to give you full value of what the market is bringing. They have to turn around and sell it, too. So it's getting marked back up to what you could probably sell it privately for. Their offer to you just depends on how much they want to make. The good thing about a private sell, in Georgia anyway, is that there isn't sales tax added on a private sale. Make sure to list that fact in your description if you go that route. People looking don't always think about that.

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[cucv]

My local dealer has their super low hour demo 23 SL sale pending at $154.9k

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[Zog]

Our dealer offers to allow you to sell directly through them for a small fee to help minimize the sales tax hit of a new boat. You are the seller though and they will not transfer funds to you, as they are essentially a broker. That way you still get the tax advantage of a trade in, but they aren't out the boat cost if it doesn't sell. It is a significant advantage in your return.

[KnoxMojo]

Our dealer offers to allow you to sell directly through them for a small fee to help minimize the sales tax hit of a new boat. You are the seller though and they will not transfer funds to you, as they are essentially a broker. That way you still get the tax advantage of a trade in, but they aren't out the boat cost if it doesn't sell. It is a significant advantage in your return.

Shouldn't really advertise that as it's a big gray area and the dealer could get in trouble with the state. I realize it happens a lot, but supposed to be on the DL.. lol

[Mobius22]

Shouldn't really advertise that as it's a big gray area and the dealer could get in trouble with the state. I realize it happens a lot, but supposed to be on the DL.. lol

First rule of avoiding tax club, you don't talk about avoiding tax club

[j.mo]

That’s really not a new type of thing is it?
Trade ins on vehicles work the same way.
If I’m buying $100k truck, and I trade mine in for 70. I only pay sales tax on the difference. ($30k)


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[KnoxMojo]

That’s really not a new type of thing is it?
Trade ins on vehicles work the same way.
If I’m buying $100k truck, and I trade mine in for 70. I only pay sales tax on the difference. ($30k)


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There's a huge difference. 1 is a legit trade in, the other is called a pass through as you're not technically trading in, the dealer is facilitating a private sale to a third party but showing it as a "trade".

[mgswake]

Good point on private sale vs dealer trade. I just thought the trade in value would have been a little closer together. Like I said before the numbers were so far off I didn't think for more than two seconds. Maybe I haven't bought enough boats yet to get the repeat customer treatment. If I was really 100% set on an upgrade, for that price I'm looking for a used paragon over any new Supra.

[sandm]

Maybe I haven't bought enough boats yet to get the repeat customer treatment.

I wouldn't call it not being a repeat customer. the market is slowing and no dealer wants to get stuck with a boat that they can't peddle easily regardless of a new purchase.
someone else mentioned earlier that with what these cost now most are going to hold out for the exact boat they want new or used and your boat is now appealing to the exact pool of buyers rather than the masses of the last couple years taking anything because it's all that's available. dealers know this.

selling private party can be a good way to go DEPENDING on the situation. netting an extra 25k on a boat sale can sound appealing BUT if your tax liability on that deal now goes from 95k difference to full boat price, here in nevada you now ate up half that profit in tax loss not even talking about your time dealing with all the tire kickers and working the sale. lots of moving parts to consider.