Dripless prop shaft seal is leaking on moomba v drive

[agoulet]

Hi All,

I've had this 2011 outback v for 2 summers now and noticed it was leaking this year (probaly last year as well since the bilge was going off and killing my battery). I just assumed it was stuffing box issue and figured i would take care of it once out of the water since i had done that job before on my 06 outback DD.

Low and behold it is a dripless shaft seal but it looks like the previous owner had leaking and tried to seal it with some sort of gunk (see pics). It also has what looks to be shredded up old sealing rope that came out of it??? Not sure i understand this since i thought this system had no rope...

Unfortunately, i didn't examine things closely when it was in the water so i don't know exactly where it is leaking, but given the state its, i'm assuming i need to change it.

I've been searching the forums but can't quite find my exact setup. Does anyone know what i need to do and what exatly i could try replacing? A whole new dripless setup is $600?? Is there a seal i can change? Does anyone know of a good instructional post or video on changing this (it is so tight in there under motor that i am assuming its a frustrating job...;-)

Thanks for any advice or links!

30984

30985

[Zog]

The shop charged us about $2k for replacement. They made it sound like a lot of work, with floor removal, pulling the shaft, reseating the transmission, etc. I think while they were in there, they cracked a fitting to the oil cooler as well, which bit us in the butt two trips later when I ran the RPMs up higher than normal.

[HFarr]

Did you actually get any pics or videos of exactly where the water is coming in at? It looks to me like the shredded rope wrapped around it could be getting in the rubber shaft seal and causing it to leak. If you cleaned all that off, you may be able to add more rubber spray or caulking to the existing clamped boot if that's where it's dripping.

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[agoulet]

ouch! Exactly why i don't want to bring it in. They move so fast in the shop and just want to clear the board....

Was it leaking a lot and do you know from where?

[agoulet]

Did you actually get any pics or videos of exactly where the water is coming in at? It looks to me like the shredded rope wrapped around it could be getting in the rubber shaft seal and causing it to leak. If you cleaned all that off, you may be able to add more rubber spray or caulking to the existing clamped boot if that's where it's dripping.

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No unfortunately, i just assumed it was going to be a packing job and didn't examine everything up close. Kinda dumb. But i was thinking exactly what you suggest. Clean it up and start over the plugging of the leak job where the previous stuff was. It kinda looks like old liquid rubber that has degraded...

If i undo those clamps can i unseat or damage anything?

[Holdmybeer]

That is hands down a dripless seal that someone tried to stop leaking and created a larger problem.
Shaft is 1-1/8in diameter and the seal is 4in long. Glide bearings makes a direct replacement. Call amd talk to Tim. He will ship to Canada no problemn $175 US.

Also, to break the shaft coupler loose to remove the shaft is the hardest part of the job. It took 2hrs to get the coupler free, the rest of the job took 35 minutes.

[agoulet]

That is hands down a dripless seal that someone tried to stop leaking and created a larger problem.
Shaft is 1-1/8in diameter and the seal is 4in long. Glide bearings makes a direct replacement. Call amd talk to Tim. He will ship to Canada no problemn $175 US.

Also, to break the shaft coupler loose to remove the shaft is the hardest part of the job. It took 2hrs to get the coupler free, the rest of the job took 35 minutes.

OK that is great info, thank you so much. Couple of questions for you:

1) How do you know my shaft is 1-1/8 and not 1-1/4, just by model and year?
2) Does the replacement have to be the same length as the one in there now or do i have some leeway?
3) How did you get the coupler free in the end? It is really tight down there so i'm not even sure of being able to do the job. I'm assuming that's why previous owner tried to patch instead of replacing
4) Is it normal that they fail? How often do they need replacing?
5) Thanks for the tip on finding it but what is AMD?

Sorry for all the questions, i'm not feeling super optimistic about this job. Everything in this boat is a pain in the ass. Even the impeller is way in the back and impossible to take out without dismantelling the whole assembly. I don't understand designing this way for parts that absolutely need changing and maintenance...

Thanks again for the explanations and tips

[Zog]

ouch! Exactly why i don't want to bring it in. They move so fast in the shop and just want to clear the board....

Was it leaking a lot and do you know from where?

It was leaking through the dripless seal. I believe they said the water used for the seal was coming through the seal and into the hull when they were warming the engine to change the oil. We had noticed water accumulation in the hull previously. I never witnessed it, but we went from having a wet bilge after trips to being dry.

[Holdmybeer]

OK that is great info, thank you so much. Couple of questions for you:

1) How do you know my shaft is 1-1/8 and not 1-1/4, just by model and year?
2) Does the replacement have to be the same length as the one in there now or do i have some leeway?
3) How did you get the coupler free in the end? It is really tight down there so i'm not even sure of being able to do the job. I'm assuming that's why previous owner tried to patch instead of replacing
4) Is it normal that they fail? How often do they need replacing?
5) Thanks for the tip on finding it but what is AMD?

Sorry for all the questions, i'm not feeling super optimistic about this job. Everything in this boat is a pain in the ass. Even the impeller is way in the back and impossible to take out without dismantelling the whole assembly. I don't understand designing this way for parts that absolutely need changing and maintenance...

Thanks again for the explanations and tips


AMD was supposed to be "and" sorry for my bad typing.

Now for the questions.
1)1-1/8" is the common size for Moomba. Your model and year also prove that.

2)Aftermarket systems will all be slightly different so there is leeway. 4" is Glide specific.

3)There is a tool you can buy (I made mine) that bolts to the flange coupler and pushes the shaft out. Think reverse of a bearing puller. My MOJO had space to work but yes it is tight.

4) Like anything that rotates or supports rotation it is a wear item. Typically 500hrs or the rubber seal dry rots and cracks which ever comes first.

I didn't take pictures when I replaced mine but if you decide to tackle it, PM me and I can help explain some things.

Link below is the pulling tool I'm referring to. Again I made my own and used longer bolts from the hardware store.
https://skiboatpartsonline.com/Coupling-Puller-Tool

[sandm]

I consider myself a very competent mechanic. I did shaft packing on my launch20ssv which is a very similar hull to the outback in dimensions and space. this is one job I swore I would pay for next time. my tige boats that had deeper/wider hulls had more room to maneuver but the supra with the shallower hull was an absolute pita to do. took 4 or 5 hours, several scraped knuckles and LOTS of colorful language.... :)

I remember tige dealer telling me similar to holdmybeer that rubber and seals were about every 8-10 years if garage kept and 5-7 if left outside.

[VA LSV]

This is what I did when I installed a dripless seal on my LSV. Worked like a charm and only had to buy 4 bolts and nuts. Very tight working space but just take your time. https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?3524-Drive-Shaft&highlight=installing+dripless+seal

[agoulet]

AMD was supposed to be "and" sorry for my bad typing.

Now for the questions.
1)1-1/8" is the common size for Moomba. Your model and year also prove that.

2)Aftermarket systems will all be slightly different so there is leeway. 4" is Glide specific.

3)There is a tool you can buy (I made mine) that bolts to the flange coupler and pushes the shaft out. Think reverse of a bearing puller. My MOJO had space to work but yes it is tight.

4) Like anything that rotates or supports rotation it is a wear item. Typically 500hrs or the rubber seal dry rots and cracks which ever comes first.

I didn't take pictures when I replaced mine but if you decide to tackle it, PM me and I can help explain some things.

Link below is the pulling tool I'm referring to. Again I made my own and used longer bolts from the hardware store.
https://skiboatpartsonline.com/Coupling-Puller-Tool


AMD was supposed to be "and" sorry for my bad typing.

Now for the questions.
1)1-1/8" is the common size for Moomba. Your model and year also prove that.

2)Aftermarket systems will all be slightly different so there is leeway. 4" is Glide specific.

3)There is a tool you can buy (I made mine) that bolts to the flange coupler and pushes the shaft out. Think reverse of a bearing puller. My MOJO had space to work but yes it is tight.

4) Like anything that rotates or supports rotation it is a wear item. Typically 500hrs or the rubber seal dry rots and cracks which ever comes first.

I didn't take pictures when I replaced mine but if you decide to tackle it, PM me and I can help explain some things.

Link below is the pulling tool I'm referring to. Again I made my own and used longer bolts from the hardware store.
https://skiboatpartsonline.com/Coupling-Puller-Tool

Thanks for the detailed response. I read about that tool and am fairly confident it will not fit for my application. Even though I would use the inner holes, the whole tool will not fit.

I read about someone using this though: 3" 4" 6" 3-Jaw Gear Puller Set, Reversible 3-Jaw Gear Removal Tool for Slide Gears, Pulleys, Bearings and Flywheels https://a.co/d/6pidWdO

But not even sure I will have the space to fit that horizontally…

I called the local dealer just to see what they would charge but no one is calling me back. Not the first time either, all they want to do is sell and maintain new boats…too bad because I am willing to pay at this point.

I just know what kind of job it is and not sure if I’m up for it. I’m not getting any younger or more flexible ;-)


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[agoulet]

This is what I did when I installed a dripless seal on my LSV. Worked like a charm and only had to buy 4 bolts and nuts. Very tight working space but just take your time. https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?3524-Drive-Shaft&highlight=installing+dripless+seal

This is helpful. So you got longer bolts and put them back into vdrive with spacer in between? Makes sense.

Do you really need to pull on the shaft from the outside? My boat is in garage backed right up to wall so not really an option, plus prop is off for maintenance so nothing to grab….


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[sandm]

I called the local dealer just to see what they would charge but no one is calling me back. Not the first time either, all they want to do is sell and maintain new boats…too bad because I am willing to pay at this point.


I would suggest finding an independent or a competing wakeboat dealer to work on it. based on the age of the boat it doesn't matter if you use the dealer and any competent mechanic can replace the parts. it's not a skiers choice-exclusive thing.

I used Gerry's Marine here in henderson and recommend them more any any of the wakeboat dealers. cheaper cost, quicker service and nicer people that seem thankful for the business.

[agoulet]

I would suggest finding an independent or a competing wakeboat dealer to work on it. based on the age of the boat it doesn't matter if you use the dealer and any competent mechanic can replace the parts. it's not a skiers choice-exclusive thing.

I used Gerry's Marine here in henderson and recommend them more any any of the wakeboat dealers. cheaper cost, quicker service and nicer people that seem thankful for the business.

It’s good advice. I’ll have to do some searching to see if I can find that. Called the master craft outfit nearby and they flat refused…


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[Holdmybeer]

Try this for a how to?.

It appears to be exactly what you are dealing with. However, not having room to pull the shaft out is going to hinder you.

https://www.wakegarage.com/projects-archive/engine-exhaust-projects/dripless-shaft-seal-upgrade-on-2007-lsv-r165/

[agoulet]

Try this for a how to?.

It appears to be exactly what you are dealing with. However, not having room to pull the shaft out is going to hinder you.

https://www.wakegarage.com/projects-archive/engine-exhaust-projects/dripless-shaft-seal-upgrade-on-2007-lsv-r165/

This is exactly it. What a good find. Thank you!

I’m looking for a shop but honestly, given the specifics of my application I’d probably have to do it with them. With everyone’s advice plus this link, I at least can visualize everything I need to do. The rest is that determination, patience, and imagination these jobs require. And when the time comes to pull/push the shaft, I can open my garage door and pull the boat forward by hand.

I have all winter at least…and a teenage son who can help and learn not to bail when it seems impossible;-)

Thanks again for the link.


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[HFarr]

Holdmybeer, that is an excellent site! Thanks for sharing that!

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[VA LSV]

This is exactly it. What a good find. Thank you!

I’m looking for a shop but honestly, given the specifics of my application I’d probably have to do it with them. With everyone’s advice plus this link, I at least can visualize everything I need to do. The rest is that determination, patience, and imagination these jobs require. And when the time comes to pull/push the shaft, I can open my garage door and pull the boat forward by hand.

I have all winter at least…and a teenage son who can help and learn not to bail when it seems impossible;-)

Thanks again for the link.


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That is a very detailed how to with some great pictures! The set screw was an unexpected thing when I did mine. You will need to install your prop before trying to remove the nut from the shaft. I blocked mine with a piece of wood but needed an extra pair of hands to hold the prop and wood in place while I was in the boat removing the nut. You don't need to pull the shaft out, just slide it back enough to clear the seal but be careful as it will slide out all on its own! Take your time and don't rush. It's not a difficult job but it is stressful working in such tight quarters with very limited space to maneuver so just step out of the boat if you get frustrated.

[HFarr]

If your like me, I cramp up more now than I used too when trying to "contort" my body, arms and hands into tight hard to reach spaces. Drink you some pickle juice, eat some mustard, or take something similar that helps reduce cramps before you jump on that one.

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[agoulet]

If your like me, I cramp up more now than I used too when trying to "contort" my body, arms and hands into tight hard to reach spaces. Drink you some pickle juice, eat some mustard, or take something similar that helps reduce cramps before you jump on that one.

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100%! I cramp up easily now as well. I reluarly drink non sweetened electrolytes and always have chewables at the handy. Getting old is so much fun ;-)....

[agoulet]

That is a very detailed how to with some great pictures! The set screw was an unexpected thing when I did mine. You will need to install your prop before trying to remove the nut from the shaft. I blocked mine with a piece of wood but needed an extra pair of hands to hold the prop and wood in place while I was in the boat removing the nut. You don't need to pull the shaft out, just slide it back enough to clear the seal but be careful as it will slide out all on its own! Take your time and don't rush. It's not a difficult job but it is stressful working in such tight quarters with very limited space to maneuver so just step out of the boat if you get frustrated.

Great advice. Especially since i was getting impatient just disconnecting hoses this year! ;-) I would love to find a reliable shop somewhere nearby that i could trust but it doesn't seem to exist and i've never needed/wanted one till this job....I will just tackle it over several weekends and take it slow.

[Holdmybeer]

Great advice. Especially since i was getting impatient just disconnecting hoses this year! ;-) I would love to find a reliable shop somewhere nearby that i could trust but it doesn't seem to exist and i've never needed/wanted one till this job....I will just tackle it over several weekends and take it slow.

If you were in Ohio, I would tell you to drive it over. Hope you can get it done or find a shop this winter.
If you get stuck ask questions. More than happy to help.

[2in2out]

If your like me, I cramp up more now than I used too when trying to "contort" my body, arms and hands into tight hard to reach spaces. Drink you some pickle juice, eat some mustard, or take something similar that helps reduce cramps before you jump on that one.

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If your like me, I cramp up more now than I used too when trying to "contort" my body, arms and hands into tight hard to reach spaces. Drink you some pickle juice, eat some mustard, or take something similar that helps reduce cramps before you jump on that one.

Midol!!! Best thing for heat cramps and headaches besides cooling, electrolytes, and hydration.

Learned this from wildland handcrews. If hotshots and smokejumpers can take it without suffering any effects to their manhood, so can any other man.


2022 SA 450

[agoulet]

If you were in Ohio, I would tell you to drive it over. Hope you can get it done or find a shop this winter.
If you get stuck ask questions. More than happy to help.

Appreciate it, I most likely will reach out.


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[agoulet]

Midol!!! Best thing for heat cramps and headaches besides cooling, electrolytes, and hydration.

Learned this from wildland handcrews. If hotshots and smokejumpers can take it without suffering any effects to their manhood, so can any other man.


2022 SA 450

Huh, never heard that but I’m game if it helps cure oldmanitis. ;-)


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[HFarr]

Midol!!! Best thing for heat cramps and headaches besides cooling, electrolytes, and hydration.

Learned this from wildland handcrews. If hotshots and smokejumpers can take it without suffering any effects to their manhood, so can any other man.


2022 SA 450LOL!! I like that comment! And hey, when you get a cramp, you won't give a crap what people think about what your taking if it makes that cramp go away.

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[agoulet]

Thanks to everybody's advice, i started on this project yesterday. Everything went smoothly so far, but i only did the easy parts. I have removed the set screw but i did not have a socket big enough to remove the shaft nut on the inside of the coupler.

Does anyone know the size of the nut inside the coupler? I will purchase a large size socket set but want to make sure the size i need is in there.

[agoulet]

Thanks to everybody's advice, i started on this project yesterday. Everything went smoothly so far, but i only did the easy parts. I have removed the set screw but i did not have a socket big enough to remove the shaft nut on the inside of the coupler.

Does anyone know the size of the nut inside the coupler? I will purchase a large size socket set but want to make sure the size i need is in there.

Nevermind, i can see from the link instrutions that Holdmybeer provided that it looks to be 1 1/16. Sorry for posting for nothing!

[Holdmybeer]

Good to hear it is going well so far.
Just keep going slow and take your time. Frustration breaks things and removing the coupler can cause frustration.

Keep us updated.

[agoulet]

Hi all, happy holidays! Got back to the cottage with the items I was missing. Job was going super well, got the shaft nut out np, inserted a socket as a spacer, and threaded on my new linger bolts easily. Started tightening evenly as my son turned the prop so I could tighten a little, one at a time.

Was going super well but as it got tighter, I was using all my strength to tighten and I ended up misthreading 3 of the nuts as a result! Couldn’t get them off so had to carefully saw them off with my oscillating tool. 100$ worth of blades later and a lot of sweat, I am back to this step of getting the coupler off.

I’m wondering what I did wrong? Holdmybeer , could the socket I used as a spacer have been too wide? Does it need to rest on the tip of the shaft?


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[Holdmybeer]

Not sure if the socket is the best option.
I tried that with mine and I couldn't get it to "pop" free. This is when I built my tool.

You need to be able to push against the shaft and pull the coupler at the same time.

The bolts didn't cross they bind up unless you use fine thread and grease on the threads.
If you are going to try again, put the drive end on the socket against the shaft and then go diagonal back and forth tightening the longer bolts.

[HFarr]

Man! That falls right into place on a comment I made on another post about a ballast tank replacement. Something always seems to go wrong and make a simple job take 3. Times as long! And usually, it is a broken or stipped screw or bolt!

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[agoulet]

That’s exactly what I did and it finally popped off! My initial spacer/socket wasn’t pushing against the shaft and I was just tightening against the coupler. Idiot! But I paid for my mistake and now I’m back on track.

Took the win, Did a big cleanup of the bilge, shaft and coupler, and next I will install the glide seal. For now, sauna and a beer!

Thanks for the reply. I would have never attempted this without this forum and your advice and now the hard parts are done! I’m just happy my oscillator fit in there enough to cut those bolts out. Phew…


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[HFarr]

Drink two beers (at least) and its not so bad when something like that happens without a deadline looming! Glad you got it!

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[Holdmybeer]

Glad you got it!

Now it is the home stretch. Only pain now is the key-way key during assembly.
Get everything clean, install the Glide seal, and bolt it all back together.

My oscillating tools have saved me a few times. Take a drink, get warm and relax. Always tomorrow to finish it. Like HFarr said, no deadlines on boats in the winter.

[agoulet]

2 beers and 2 manhattans actually. Hit the spot. Re key way, figured installing with it on the bottom is easiest?

Intend on finishing the job tomorrow. Keep you posted.


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[agoulet]

Done! Everything went back on easily. Only snag is where I marked where the coupler was on the shaft got erased but it seems it’s a foolproof system since where it stops is basically where it needs to, just at the end of the key-way and with the shaft end just near the end of the coupler, without protruding.

Was not an easy task but would have been unthinkable without this community and Holdmybeer specifically! Glad I did it and it’s one more thing I now understand about my boat.

And No more dead battery due to auto bilge pump!

Bought a fake-a-lake ages ago and never used it so will use to test in the spring before putting in the water.

Now I need to find someone to fix my prop since I noticed a few nicks and a little bend in one of the wings…

Wishing everyone a great new year with lots of fun on the water!

[Holdmybeer]

You are more than welcome.
This is what good forums are for.

Let us know how things go in the spring! Happy new year!