Used market softness or all market?

[Max20]

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2019-moomba-makai-9016410/

We didn’t use the boat as much as we had hoped the last 2 seasons and have decided to sell. Maybe not the best time of year to sell but I’ve been listed on onlyinboards for 2 weeks and not even 1 inquiry. I just went the boat trader route today.

What do you guys think of the price??

[HFarr]

I can't believe you have not had any calls. Thats a great price I think.

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[mgswake]

Looks like your hours are a little below the other ones on OI. Price is lowest on there as well. Does it need to be gone before winter? If you are able to wait until spring you might have more hits. I personally think with the price of these boats and the increasing interest rates it’s really pricing a lot of folks out. Although a 2-4 year old boat at a fraction of the cost of the new ones would be something I looked into if I was shopping for a Makai.

But, price looks good, boat looks great. Probably a combination of end of season, higher rates, and more options in the used market these days.

[Holdmybeer]

I know for me it is rate increase that stopped my search.

At 3-4% it would have been sold in 24hr. At 5-6% maybe a week. But now perfect credit is 8-9% and below 800 score is 9-10%. It take a $500/month payment and makes it $1000 (exaggerating..but you know)

[smitty75]

Boat sales have definitely slowed down, at least on used boats. It just took me 3 month so sell a pristine Grady White center console that would have sold in a day last summer. Haven’t followed the wake boat market as much since we moved to the beach, but seeing a lot of dealer lots fully stocked lately that were empty last year.


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[Max20]

Thanks for the replies folks. To answer the question if it HAS to be gone before winter the answer is no however doing the math on payments for 6 months or letting it go at a great price, that’s what I tried to do.

I started it at over $90k for a week or so with no interest on OI. I brought it down to $87,500 for another week and still nothing. Today I decided to get it on Boattrader and boats.com to try and cast a wider net and brought it down to $85k which really if it doesn’t go for that price I’ll hold it till spring and re-evaluate.

[Yzfguy06]

I know for me it is rate increase that stopped my search.

At 3-4% it would have been sold in 24hr. At 5-6% maybe a week. But now perfect credit is 8-9% and below 800 score is 9-10%. It take a $500/month payment and makes it $1000 (exaggerating..but you know)

I agree with you. I’ve been watching used supras specifically sa/sl and I’ve seen some of them start to tick down a bit. The there are some that are trying to get what they paid for them. I think the price of your boat is great and it should sell. If I was looking for a makai I’d be calling you.

[sandm]

my opinion...

OI is now higher than pre-pandemic levels and back then, there were a ton of boats that had been sold and never deleted. covid cleaned up the listings and the 5200 currently are likely all still for sale. that's been increasing every week for the last 2 months and a big jump from 2019 levels comparing actual boats for sale.
as Hfarr mentions, interest rates are a big driver currently in a lot of markets.

personally, if we were in the market, we would be sitting on the sidelines until next spring waiting to see what the pricing market does rather than carrying $4.5k in note over the next 6 months of layup unless the boat is an absolute fire sale. I suspect others are doing the same.

good luck and all it takes is 1 buyer...

[larry_arizona]

Interest rates are the killer and only going up.

OEM prices are going up so rapidly, many are out priced in combination with high interest rates. Buyers are now shopping used and are trying to offset that huge interest payment and expecting the seller to reduce the price to help them. It takes a lot of price reduction to offset 7% interest.

Not sure how many sellers will choose to eat negative equity.

Rates will need to get back near 5% to keep used boat prices above water. Regardless it will hurt the industry as nobody is buying a new boat after eating $20k in negative equity.

Inflation is slowing, but the last few years of high inflation is permenant damage. Even if we get back to 1-2% inflation, the last couple years of 7+% will not be reset.


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[brad460]

Your asking more than the boat could have been purchased new in 2019, so I wouldn’t feel too bad about the situation..Plus you used the boat 192 hours..

I do think it’s good the market is cooling as prices got out of hand. Seeing big discounts on new boats too..So why over-pay for a 5 year old boat- knowing prices will continue to slide.

[Max20]

For what it’s worth, I bought in April of 2020 and did get a pretty good deal IMO but I’m not asking more that what it could have been purchased new at the time with the options it has. MSRP at the time was $120k-ish. Today the MSRP is $140k and you could buy a new one in the $120k range if i had to guess. The fact remains, my boat is the lowest listed price on the market for this model and I’ve only seen 2 axis 24’s in my research that are similarly priced. Everything else is listed higher. Point is I’m on only inboards, boattrader and boats.com and haven’t gotten a sniff or a low ball offer. Everyone else with boats for sale (including dealers) must be feeling the same. I feel like I have the right options, low hours and colors that “should not” be turning noses up. It may have to sit till spring and that’s ok. I’m not ready to give it away nor do I need to financially. I am pointing out that the market must be softening a bit OR maybe I’m just too early in my sale to think so.

[Yzfguy06]

For what it’s worth, I bought in April of 2020 and did get a pretty good deal IMO but I’m not asking more that what it could have been purchased new at the time with the options it has. MSRP at the time was $120k-ish. Today the MSRP is $140k and you could buy a new one in the $120k range if i had to guess. The fact remains, my boat is the lowest listed price on the market for this model and I’ve only seen 2 axis 24’s in my research that are similarly priced. Everything else is listed higher. Point is I’m on only inboards, boattrader and boats.com and haven’t gotten a sniff or a low ball offer. Everyone else with boats for sale (including dealers) must be feeling the same. I feel like I have the right options, low hours and colors that “should not” be turning noses up. It may have to sit till spring and that’s ok. I’m not ready to give it away nor do I need to financially. I am pointing out that the market must be softening a bit OR maybe I’m just too early in my sale to think so.

Imo I think your market assessment is correct. It is starting to soften and slide a bit. It was weird you haven’t even had a low ball offer.

[cucv]

https://www.boattrader.com/boat/2019-moomba-makai-9016410/

We didn’t use the boat as much as we had hoped the last 2 seasons and have decided to sell. Maybe not the best time of year to sell but I’ve been listed on onlyinboards for 2 weeks and not even 1 inquiry. I just went the boat trader route today.

What do you guys think of the price??No doubt the market is softening but I've been waiting for a deal like yours for a long time. Had I not bought a 23 this summer, I would have been calling you. Your boat will sell, it may just take a bit longer than expected.

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[mgswake]

I wonder how many dealers were telling people over the last couple years you could buy a boat and sell it at cost or a profit. I could see people using that as a selling point. "how well these boats hold their value". I saw a lot of posts on forums and FB where people were so happy about their boat investment. A lot of boats were selling used for equal or greater than their original purchase price. Hopefully there aren't a lot of owners out there expecting to get there money back on resale.

To the OP, I think you have the boat priced aggressively compared to the market and other boats. Hang in there, like mentioned above, only need the one right offer.

[MJHSupra]

. Hopefully there aren't a lot of owners out there expecting to get there money back on resale.


Yes - for probably some new boat buyers into the market- not new boats necessarily. Wishful thinking. Some rode the wave for a few years, but just like most things, it gets back to normal. People realize toys vs investments.

I'm betting dealers did not really know or anticipate what they boat market was going to do on prices and the crazy COVID times.

I had someone tell me this, as they phrased it as boat investment:
1st boat was 50K - put some money down and sold later.
2nd boat was 100K - put extra money down and also put the $ from Boat #1
3rd boat was 150K - put extra money down and also put the $ from Boat #2
etc. So, their 'investment' was putting in extra money and taking money from the Used Boats they purchased over the years to build to a bigger new boat with a smaller loan.

[sandm]

People realize toys vs investments.


something that I bet is going on in the camper/rv world as well. anyone who thought this craziness would last is living in fantasyland.
we were thankful that we bought new in '20 and sold in early '21 for over 10k in profit but we didn't do it again as we knew it wouldn't last and you never want to be standing when the music stops...

my gut says a whole lotta 2024's leftover next year unless builders are all scaling back. there's currently over 2200 2023's on OI and that seems like a lot for both new/used.

[Mxmark4]

Tommysi is doing their offer the owner event again this year. Last year I made a rediculous offer on an Axis A22 and they accepted it. It includes all their used inventory from all ove rthe country including some 23 models. If you are comfortable with making a super lowball offer and repairing some stuff yourself, you can definitely score a deal from them.

[MJHSupra]

my gut says a whole lotta 2024's leftover next year unless builders are all scaling back. there's currently over 2200 2023's on OI and that seems like a lot for both new/used.

MC and BU have already scaled back, are you thinking they will scale back more? From what I read in the news when MC had their layoffs, they went from 20 to 10 boats per day. Pretty big cut if that is true.

There was a guy that posted some OI numbers on social media in the past, I was going to search for new numbers if I get time.

[sandm]

MC and BU have already scaled back, are you thinking they will scale back more? From what I read in the news when MC had their layoffs, they went from 20 to 10 boats per day. Pretty big cut if that is true.


so true. 50% of their current volume at MC is a decent cut. haven't seen anything on 'bu on what they actually cut back.
more interested in whether or not sc/mb/nautty/centurion/supreme/sanger are feeling the same. in a normal market you want some leftovers in any industry but a quick glance at oi shows 5000+ listings and 40% are 2023's. that seems like a lot. dealers and builders start offering big discounts to move inventory and keep the lights on will impact and start softening the used market.

as mentioned earlier, guessing we would be seeing more sales if interest rates weren't where they are at. 150k note at 15 years- moving from 4.5 to 8% is around $300/month. not a deal breaker on a 1000+ payment but it is likely making a few slow down and think.

[MJHSupra]

so true. 50% of their current volume at MC is a decent cut. haven't seen anything on 'bu on what they actually cut back.
more interested in whether or not sc/mb/nautty/centurion/supreme/sanger are feeling the same. in a normal market you want some leftovers in any industry but a quick glance at oi shows 5000+ listings and 40% are 2023's. that seems like a lot. dealers and builders start offering big discounts to move inventory and keep the lights on will impact and start softening the used market.

as mentioned earlier, guessing we would be seeing more sales if interest rates weren't where they are at. 150k note at 15 years- moving from 4.5 to 8% is around $300/month. not a deal breaker on a 1000+ payment but it is likely making a few slow down and think.

That 50% number was from the local news, so even if they are slowing down production to get the inventory off dealer lots and dealers are not looking to take boats and sit over the winter months, they will probably pick up production once boat show season starts and the market outlook MIGHT be better known. Based on their recent earnings release, they are conservative and think sales could be done 15% year-year. I think they build around 3,700 boats per year.

Sorting through those financial statements are wonky - they have record net sales and earnings, great financial numbers on paper, stock buy-backs, executives get bonuses, but outlook does not look good.

What I did gleam:
40-50% of their sales are in the 4th quarter (most recent quarter), but that number was down 15% year-over-year.
40-50% of sales come from the top-10 dealers. I'm guessing they take care of those top 10 pretty good.
Price increases expected back to pre-covid levels.

[HFarr]

Giy on the lake is selling his 2018 craz. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230901/ee855da341b22dc283025269b07f2619.jpg

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[HFarr]

Guy on the lake is selling his 2018 craz. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230901/ee855da341b22dc283025269b07f2619.jpg

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[MJHSupra]

Both hardly used.

[HFarr]

Not really no. Especially to be 2018 models

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[brad460]

Talked with my buddy this weekend who works at Merc…He said they are seeing a major slow down on engine sales between 9 and 150 HP - obviously the folks who buy in this HP category are most effected by interest rates and inflation.

150HP and up category no slow down in sight..

[Yzfguy06]

Talked with my buddy this weekend who works at MercÂ…He said they are seeing a major slow down on engine sales between 9 and 150 HP - obviously the folks who buy in this HP category are most effected by interest rates and inflation.

150HP and up category no slow down in sight..

Yea seems the be the status quo. That range seems to have less money and not spending as much.

[jcarter20]

I would hold strong on your price. I have been in the market for a new Supra for 3 years now. Every year I keep talking myself into the price and then it jumps another freaking $40k and I give up. And I can tell you I am totally out on nearly $280k for a Supra. So, I have almost reverted back to buying another Moomba to gat a little large boat with more storage. Only thing that has really held me back is there is nothing wrong with my boat, so why pay $40-$50k to get an extra foot and some new features that are just nice to haves. I think boats like yours are going to loose less value than the luxury boats that are pushing $300k. If someone can afford to spend over $200k on a boat, they are likely going to buy new unless they find someone with the exact same taste in colors and features, and the boat hasn’t been trashed. I honestly think all this customization can hurt the resale also. I see boats all day long that I wouldn’t even consider because I can’t stand the colors. The local dealer has a few Supras on the lot and there is no way I would buy one even if they discounted $100k off the boat. Your boat colors are nice and neutral, so I don’t see you having that problem. I think the issue is you are in Ohio and the season will be over in a month or two and everyone is waiting to see what prices do over the winter….at least that is what I am doing. [emoji6]


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[Holdmybeer]

I'm with Jcarter on this.
I'm in Ohio also and I have been looking to make the jump for new tech. Your Makai is real nice and priced aggressively. I just want to make the jump to a lux brand when I upgrade. I would have done it this year but then proces jumped and interest rates did the same.

Hold tight....it will sell.

[larry_arizona]

The biggest mistake on customization is picking a poorly thought out color way.

Most dealers built boats look like an after thought and it takes a decent eye to put an appealing color way together.


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[sandm]

The biggest mistake on customization is picking a poorly thought out color way.

Most dealers built boats look like an after thought and it takes a decent eye to put an appealing color way together.


agreed and also on the interior schemes. chill tek or not, any color other than white is crazy in the southwest. even our light grey gator flooring in the last tige by noon in july was too hot to walk on with bare feet. had to either keep socks on, towels on the floor or continue to douse with water to walk on it.

[mgswake]

Well at least they have the raw water access on the 24’s so you could water down your floor to keep it cool.

[Max20]

I would hold strong on your price. I have been in the market for a new Supra for 3 years now. Every year I keep talking myself into the price and then it jumps another freaking $40k and I give up. And I can tell you I am totally out on nearly $280k for a Supra. So, I have almost reverted back to buying another Moomba to gat a little large boat with more storage. Only thing that has really held me back is there is nothing wrong with my boat, so why pay $40-$50k to get an extra foot and some new features that are just nice to haves. I think boats like yours are going to loose less value than the luxury boats that are pushing $300k. If someone can afford to spend over $200k on a boat, they are likely going to buy new unless they find someone with the exact same taste in colors and features, and the boat hasn’t been trashed. I honestly think all this customization can hurt the resale also. I see boats all day long that I wouldn’t even consider because I can’t stand the colors. The local dealer has a few Supras on the lot and there is no way I would buy one even if they discounted $100k off the boat. Your boat colors are nice and neutral, so I don’t see you having that problem. I think the issue is you are in Ohio and the season will be over in a month or two and everyone is waiting to see what prices do over the winter….at least that is what I am doing. [emoji6]


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Thanks for your comments and other’s comments as well. The price I have on it is as low as I am willing to go right now. I actually showed it today and the sale sounds promising, but we all know it’s not over until the deal is closed and paperwork is signed. Fingers crossed…..

[Max20]

The potential buyer today did ask me about the warranty transfer. Does anyone know off the top of their head how that works? Is it simple paperwork to fill out and send in, is there a transfer fee?

I’ll call the dealer tomorrow when they open again, but thought I would ask here if anyone knows the process.

[Holdmybeer]

Have to contact Indmar and Skiers. Dealer can do the transfer and you don't have to call anyone.

Fee for transfer is around $1200...make sure the boatmate trailer warranty is part of the deal also.

[Max20]

Have to contact Indmar and Skiers. Dealer can do the transfer and you don't have to call anyone.

Fee for transfer is around $1200...make sure the boatmate trailer warranty is part of the deal also.

Thanks!! I’ll keep everyone posted on the result.

[Guppydriver]

Good Luck...

Whoever is buys is getting a great deal. I was thinking of selling this year, but if your boat is an indicator, I may hold off and enjoy another season.

[Max20]

Quick update everyone, the boat has sold and is on its way to Wisconsin! The new owners were great to deal with and we had an excellent afternoon on the water giving them the rundown on how everything works and explaining everything I’ve worked on the last 4 seasons getting the wave dialed in for surfing.

Thanks for all the comments and even though I no longer own a Moomba, I’ll still be hanging around here every now and then to keep up with the action.

[Holdmybeer]

Good to hear! Good you were able to stixk with it. This new new market is weirder than the last.

The only thing you might want to tell the new owners if you haven't already.

The warranty requires the new owners contacting a dealer and getting everything changed over. There are 3 warranties, skiers, indmar, boatmate. I believe they cam use the title transfer date and they only have 10 day or 30 days to get this done.

[brad460]

Great new for you…did you have to come down much on the price? Surprised you left that out of your update considering that was the main topic..

[Max20]

Great new for you…did you have to come down much on the price? Surprised you left that out of your update considering that was the main topic..

Great question and apologies for anyone looking. I stuck firm on the price at $85k which I thought was an extremely great price for all parties. The new owners got a great dialed in boat for the money. No one got hurt in the deal and I am happy with the outcome. The new owners travelled 7 hours to pick it up and we all went to the lake for an afternoon of fun in the sun and surfing. At the end of our session we cracked a few cold ones and cheered to the occasion. It was an awesome experience and the best I’ve ever had buying or selling boats in the last 25 years.

As far as warranty, thanks to many on this forum we both researched the requirements and the new owners will take it to their local dealer for inspection and warranty transfer.