Master Craft

[MJHSupra]

For those that follow the wake boat makers, this was in the local paper.

Employees say MasterCraft is laying off dozens

MasterCraft Boat Company is headquartered in Vonore, Tennessee.

Published: Jun. 30, 2023 at 11:50 PM EDT

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. (WVLT) - Several employees told WVLT News they were laid off by MasterCraft Boat Company in Monroe County.

“It’s sad man. I felt a few emotions, anger, confusion, why me you know, and then the sadness seeing people hugging and crying. Walking through there and then looking at your work station one last time before you’re out of there. I am getting emotional right now thinking about it,” said an anonymous employee who was terminated.

This employee wanted to remain anonymous because some of his family members still work for MasterCraft. He said that on June 28, groups of people were led into a meeting with Human Resource Manager Kelly H. Moser, receiving a notice from MasterCraft telling them they were being terminated due to reduction in force and economic conditions posing unprecedented challenges to the marine industry. He said MasterCraft told employees a few weeks before the layoff that the plant would be cutting production from 20 boats a day to 10.

“People were trying to say goodbye you know, a lot of people got ran off, They couldn’t even go tell their friends that they’re out,” the employee said.

He said dozens were laid off and they were mostly factory workers, the people actually building the boats. MasterCraft told employees they could be called back to work in the next three months, but if they weren’t, employees could re-apply. Most of the former employees who reached out to WVLT News declined to do interviews out of fear they wouldn’t be re-called, but many were left wondering how they can survive during this time.

This employee is a single father and is responsible for taking care of his daughter and his mother.

“I take care of my mom, I got her bills to pay and stuff so I got to keep what money I have left and stretch it out until I find somewhere else to go,” he said.

WVLT crews drove to the MasterCraft plant in Vonore and asked a security guard to speak with someone about the layoffs. We were told we just missed human resources. We asked her to call them to come back to give us more information, there was no answer. MasterCraft is now on an eleven day break and when they get back, their first quarter of the fiscal year begins.

Chris Cannon with Tennessee’s Department of Labor and Work Force Development said companies are supposed to notify the state prior to a mass layoffs. He said the department was not notified yet.

“I’d like to say to them to keep their heads up, there’s no point to keep dwelling on it you know. I want to tell the company I’m extremely disappointed. You make quality boats, I figured you’d be a quality top tier company. If you don’t care about your employees but they don’t they could’ve given us a heads up so we could’ve started looking for other work,” he said.

Copyright 2023 WVLT. All rights reserved.


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[dfreeman]

Very sad for the employees and their families . I drive by our local MasterCraft dealer every day and their inventory is really full, I keep a pretty good eye on the local market as a whole in Seattle area and there is a ton more inventory than the last several years. This might be the beginning of manufacturers trying reduce cost and get back models that don’t require a mortgage payment. I have heard rumors of a new Moomba model, I wonder if it’ll be a bit more cost effective than the current offerings.

[haknslash]

Sad times and it’s tough with the bloated market prices with everything. Homes, boats, automobiles, groceries you name it. I feel for those workers who lost their job. I had to leave my job of nearly 20 fairly recently and man, it was a shell shocking experience getting back into the job search and employment grinder!

I’d love to see prices come back down. Part of why I haven’t upgraded to a Supra or other brand is I can’t really stomach paying the bloated cost that has shot up over the last couple of years. I got my Max when you could build one out for less than $100k and still be happy. That’s a bit harder to do now as optioning it out makes the price climb quickly. I don’t have $200k toy fund to blow on something I use 1/2 the year, sometimes less.

[sandm]

I think this is just the first of such announcements to come before the end of the summer. if I was in the toy industry, I'd have stopped hiring a minute ago and use any gaps via overtime. I was losing 5 workers a week in our warehouse the first 5 months of this year on a staff of 115.. last month I only lost 6 total. the labor market is slowly balancing but there's going to be some pains along the way. OI is back to pre pandemic levels for sale and I got a lunch that says another 15% of boats added before the end of the summer.

makes me wonder if nautty is rethinking the decision to relocate supreme to the east. they were supposed to be ramped up to full production end of the year. bet it doesn't happen.

[MJHSupra]

MC is a public company and they produce more boats verses a company like SC. So the decision making progress is probably a little different too.

We will see if BU follows.

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[HFarr]

I think this is just the first of such announcements to come before the end of the summer. if I was in the toy industry, I'd have stopped hiring a minute ago and use any gaps via overtime. I was losing 5 workers a week in our warehouse the first 5 months of this year on a staff of 115.. last month I only lost 6 total. the labor market is slowly balancing but there's going to be some pains along the way. OI is back to pre pandemic levels for sale and I got a lunch that says another 15% of boats added before the end of the summer.

makes me wonder if nautty is rethinking the decision to relocate supreme to the east. they were supposed to be ramped up to full production end of the year. bet it doesn't happen.Their new Supreme factory in Valdosta Georgia is up and running now.

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[larry_arizona]

Bad recession coming, automotive usually gets hit first, GM and Ford made huge white collar cuts and now all the suppliers are cutting hard.

Not good.


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[Holdmybeer]

A recession is not really a bad thing. It's like a factory reset on the economy. The problem is going to be the inflated cost of everything will need to come down. The interest rates haulted all large purchases and you see prices starting to drop already.

However, because of inflated cost, you have inflated payroll. No one is going to take a pay cut so now it's do the same (or more) with less manpower (layoffs) which has already happened since Covid. Hopefully it balances out, but I doubt it. Those white collar jobs were high paying and available jobs will be at much lower salaries.

[Mobius22]

SC is in a better position inventory wise, just so everyone is aware. A lot of manufacturers overbuilt this year and the chickens are coming home to roost now.

[Holdmybeer]

SC is in a better position inventory wise, just so everyone is aware. A lot of manufacturers overbuilt this year and the chickens are coming home to roost now.

Mobius, good to hear. I just wish labor and material cost would drop so SC could offer better deals. I know it's not all at the manufacture level and dealers are trying to cash in also.

[larry_arizona]

I would not count on MSRP ever dropping. It's never happened in automotive and highly doubt it will happen in recreation.


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[Holdmybeer]

I would not count on MSRP ever dropping. It's never happened in automotive and highly doubt it will happen in recreation.


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Tesla keeps doing it to sell cars.....one can only hope....lol

[mgswake]

Is there a max price where the wakeboat industry just implodes. I see posts all the time where someone says they are priced out. I bet a lot of people are paying month to month and plan to sell or upgrade before ever paying off the boat. Essentially a lot of the boats are being leased.

I was talking to the dealer the other day and he said 150-160k for a makai. Someone posted the 2013 G23 price was around mid 90k. 10 years later and it’s over 200k. I just feel like it has to get to a point where people just refuse to pay the prices for new boats.

[Holdmybeer]

Is there a max price where the wakeboat industry just implodes. I see posts all the time where someone says they are priced out. I bet a lot of people are paying month to month and plan to sell or upgrade before ever paying off the boat. Essentially a lot of the boats are being leased.

I was talking to the dealer the other day and he said 150-160k for a makai. Someone posted the 2013 G23 price was around mid 90k. 10 years later and it’s over 200k. I just feel like it has to get to a point where people just refuse to pay the prices for new boats.

If we are not already there we are close. $160k for a Makai....pretty sure that is SL level cost. Local-ish Bu dealer still has 22's on the lot at 35% off and cannot dump them. 35% off ridiculous just makes them "normal" expensive.

[larry_arizona]

Boat Market has slowed, my dealer has inventory of moombas and Supras.

160k Makai is crazy. It was mentioned above about being priced out, I am officially priced out of a Supra and damn near priced out of a moomba.


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[Holdmybeer]

Boat Market has slowed, my dealer has inventory of moombas and Supras.

160k Makai is crazy. It was mentioned above about being priced out, I am officially priced out of a Supra and damn near priced out of a moomba.


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Larry,
You being in Michigan, I'm sure you look at it like I do. It's a lot of coin for maybe 4 months. I love it but I can make do with current or another used upgrade later in life.

[cucv]

I would not count on MSRP ever dropping. It's never happened in automotive and highly doubt it will happen in recreation.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThis is what has ultimately pushed me to pull the trigger on the "last" 23 Mojo built slot. I've been waiting for deals on the used market and just haven't found one on a boat we like but I know they're coming. That said, the deals will likely be relative to the ever rising MSRP's. My dealer sold their last build slot shortly after the boat show this spring so we were out on a new Moomba til 24. But then he kept calling about build slots that would open up. I'd move to slow and miss the opportunity. The "last" slot opened up and to my surprise it it didn't fill for several days of pondering.

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[sandm]

lots of good opinions in here that I think a lot are going to come to fruition.

toy manufacturers have been pretty greedy in the last 3 years imo(yes, I don't blame 'em). most all took covid cash even if not needed and have been jacking prices up over the last 3 years while collecting what I would bet are record profits and now it's all coming back around. 'bu had 30% and 20% growth over the last 2 years. betting all other toy dealers were similar.

I'm with larry in that msrp's on current models won't drop but I bet discounts become much larger across all lines into '24 and builders will start dropping one model to bring in another at a lower pricepoint. IE.. SA goes away and Launch22 comes back. same hull. a few less standard features. msrp 20% less than SA. I see that play coming over the next couple years for some builders.

we have been priced out for 2 years on the new market but it's not due to affordability, it's due to the perceived value of spending over 100k for something that gets used 30-50hrs/yr. betting a lot are in our shoes.....

[mgswake]

Sandm- I like that thought on a launch22, but I think SC is trying to keep the Supra line as the premier line and the Moomba line as the less expensive option. If SC was to introduce a cheaper Supra, it would put the lines too close together in my opinion.

I saw a guy trying to sell a 2016 G23 with 550 engine for 110k. He’s not having a lot of interest. That boat would have sold for 115-120k last year. It also would have sold for 85-95k back in 2019. Maybe we are heading for the correction. So if you are like me a bought a 2023, I hope you plan on keeping it for awhile. I don’t see boats continuing to appreciate. I think that was an anomaly of the past couple years, but I see boats going back to a depreciating asset.

[larry_arizona]

Wave tech has peaked in my opinion. Even my last SA was so dialed in.

Powertrain is bulletproof

Interiors are loaded with features, great screens, tech and audio.

Tower is elite

Hull design is edgy

Thrusters are really functional

What else do the luxury brands offer?

I want for nothing.


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[MJHSupra]

Wave tech has peaked in my opinion. Even my last SA was so dialed in.

Powertrain is bulletproof

Interiors are loaded with features, great screens, tech and audio.

Tower is elite

Hull design is edgy

Thrusters are really functional

What else do the luxury brands offer?

I want for nothing.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkFor the Supra side, a redesigned/step swim platform would be cool feature. That was a nice feature on the new Malibu I was just riding on.

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[MJHSupra]

Wave tech has peaked in my opinion. Even my last SA was so dialed in.

Powertrain is bulletproof

Interiors are loaded with features, great screens, tech and audio.

Tower is elite

Hull design is edgy

Thrusters are really functional

What else do the luxury brands offer?

I want for nothing.


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Agree. I see changes, but it might be with vendors or design, like (over the years):
Screens
Interior materials for seats
Audio companies
Exterior (side) redesign
Tower redesign
Bimini redesign
Windshield

The one thing I would like to see, the ballast/power/wave ratio to be able to run something like 75% ballast to get a really great wave. But not looking for the offset to be more dry weight that hinders other items like fuel burn or towing.

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[HFarr]

Better engine panel system to stop the pop outs would be #1 on my list. I can think of a couple of fixes that would be easy.

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[larry_arizona]

Better engine panel system to stop the pop outs would be #1 on my list. I can think of a couple of fixes that would be easy.

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Subfloor ballast fixes that problem


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[rdlangston13]

Boat Market has slowed, my dealer has inventory of moombas and Supras.

160k Makai is crazy. It was mentioned above about being priced out, I am officially priced out of a Supra and damn near priced out of a moomba.


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I'm tossing the idea around of a new boat but I think I am priced out too. Since 2017 when we bought our Mojo the base price was around 75k if I recall. No it is 108,500 which is almost a 45% increase. I know my income has not gone up 45%, maybe 10%! Not sure what we want to do now but we have about 50k in equity in our current boat which seems to mean if we were to sell it and put that 50k down on a new one then our financed amount would still be more than the total price of our current moomba when it was new based off what our dealer told us (New Mojos going for 130). Just seems unbelievable.

[TXSurf4]

I'm tossing the idea around of a new boat but I think I am priced out too. Since 2017 when we bought our Mojo the base price was around 75k if I recall. No it is 108,500 which is almost a 45% increase. I know my income has not gone up 45%, maybe 10%! Not sure what we want to do now but we have about 50k in equity in our current boat which seems to mean if we were to sell it and put that 50k down on a new one then our financed amount would still be more than the total price of our current moomba when it was new based off what our dealer told us (New Mojos going for 130). Just seems unbelievable.

We are in the same boat (pun intended). I had dreams of making the jump to a new Supra but don't think that will happen with what prices have done. Maybe the market will change in the coming years but if not I might look at the used market but will hold on to what we have for a while. Looking at the prices of new boats I feel like people would choke knowing that my fully loaded 2019 Makai's MSRP was less than the base MSRP is now. Not to mention that we didn't pay MSRP in 2019 either.......2019 wasn't that long ago but now it seems like the good ole days!! LOL

[mgswake]

Txsurf4 - I can’t believe how fast the prices are jumping year after year. I wanted to get a used boat and was tracking 2016-2019 model years, but when new prices jumped in 2020 and demand went up, used prices skyrocketed as well. The used prices seem to be starting to come back down. I feel bad for anyone that thought of these boats as appreciating assets because I think that is not going to be the case going forward. I guess a good dealer relationship and discount may help with trade ins, but upgrades might be hard for many to afford.

On a side note, to the original post feel bad for those master craft employees. It’s good to hear that SC is still in a good spot at this point as mentioned earlier in the thread.

[Zog]

Better fuel efficiency would be greatly appreciated, but I think that is a fruitless battle. Now you will start seeing all the e-boats.

[larry_arizona]

Better fuel efficiency would be greatly appreciated, but I think that is a fruitless battle. Now you will start seeing all the e-boats.

Zero interest in an E boat or E trucks, useless


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[Hayden]

The one thing I would like to see, the ballast/power/wave ratio to be able to run something like 75% ballast to get a really great wave. But not looking for the offset to be more dry weight that hinders other items like fuel burn or towing.


Can you explain this one further? Do you mean you want less water ballast for the same wave?

[Hayden]

Better engine panel system to stop the pop outs would be #1 on my list.

For boats without subfloor ballast, I can't believe they haven't figured this one out yet....seems so easy/obvious.

[Mxmark4]

Can you explain this one further? Do you mean you want less water ballast for the same wave?

I think he is saying at boat that doesn't have to run 100 full ballast all the time to get a great surfable wave. My boat has the amplitude buttons but they are worthless and do nothing. Maybe a better hull design that doesn't require as much weight but in a lighter hull that doesn't suck fuel constantly. But at that point you are bending the laws of physics and engineering to get more displacement from less weight. Who knows maybe it just hasn't been figured out yet.

[Hayden]

I haven't rode in any of the new 2022 Moombas (or any Supra) that have the stock sound dampening but engine noise would be my number #1 issue. I want to hear as little of the engine as possible.

[MJHSupra]

I think he is saying at boat that doesn't have to run 100 full ballast all the time to get a great surfable wave. My boat has the amplitude buttons but they are worthless and do nothing. Maybe a better hull design that doesn't require as much weight but in a lighter hull that doesn't suck fuel constantly. But at that point you are bending the laws of physics and engineering to get more displacement from less weight. Who knows maybe it just hasn't been figured out yet.

^^ yes ^^

Did you get your boat fixed?


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[Mxmark4]

^^ yes ^^

Did you get your boat fixed?


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I did! Did I pass you on Tellico yesterday?

[sandm]

Subfloor ballast fixes that problem
couple issues with this. bags create mold/cleaning issues, hard to access and can pop. mb uses hard tanks but to do so they have to jettison all the floatation foam to be nmma certed. big deal to some, not to others and when the actuators fail to open to drain, have seen boats being trailered to get off the water leaning to one side. adds a lot of stress to a trailer to get off the water. there's a way to open manually but not many want to go underwater to do so.


Zero interest in an E boat or E trucks, useless
haha. agree 100%.....


I think he is saying at boat that doesn't have to run 100 full ballast all the time to get a great surfable wave. My boat has the amplitude buttons but they are worthless and do nothing. Maybe a better hull design that doesn't require as much weight but in a lighter hull that doesn't suck fuel constantly. But at that point you are bending the laws of physics and engineering to get more displacement from less weight. Who knows maybe it just hasn't been figured out yet.
'bu and centurion had or still have the wedge and switchblade. they were designed to pull the ass end down into the water and make the wave larger without more ballast. most feedback will say they were money for boarders but surfing, don't check the option box. I believe there's a reason that other builders are not using them.

[mgswake]

Rename the thread…Current state of the Wakeboat industry???

[cucv]

On our lake, one would never guess there is a pull back in the wakeboat industry. By far the most new wake boats in a year, this year, and most of them are Mastercraft. I feel for the folks laid off and the ones who remain, it's a stressful time. I haven't been involved with a cyclic industry but spend 2 decades in an industry that died out with countless layoffs. One positive from my experience is the tough times drive innovation and positive change.

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[Hayden]

Wave tech has peaked in my opinion.

I want for nothing.



For surfing, I think you're right but in the back of my mind I've always wanted to try out the wave of all the other boats and get more perspective on the differences. I remember when I first got into it and people were saying how a Tige hull/wave is so different than a Nautique, than a Supra, than a Centurion, etc.

[larry_arizona]

For surfing, I think you're right but in the back of my mind I've always wanted to try out the wave of all the other boats and get more perspective on the differences. I remember when I first got into it and people were saying how a Tige hull/wave is so different than a Nautique, than a Supra, than a Centurion, etc.

I am sure all brands can put out an excellent wave, but I doubt any are truly superior to another assuming you have your wave dialed in.

Another concern is driveability....Super easy to drive an SC boat at 9 deg bow rise.


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[Hayden]

Another concern is driveability....Super easy to drive an SC boat at 9 deg bow rise.


Agreed. With the extra bow bags I plumbed in this year, I'm finding 9-9.3 pitch is a perfect balance.

I want for nothing....except a thruster.

[HFarr]

Ah, the thruster!

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[cucv]

Agreed. With the extra bow bags I plumbed in this year, I'm finding 9-9.3 pitch is a perfect balance.

I want for nothing....except a thruster.What thruster are you thinking of adding?

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[Hayden]

Larry the mind reader:

https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?37879-Liquid-Propulsion-thrusters

[HFarr]

Here is another brand that I have seen mounted on different boats. Somewhere around 4K I believe for a Moomba setup. Still at that price point that makes me say I dont quite need it that bad.
https://www.ezdrivethruster.com/

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[brad460]

A dealer here in WI has a new Mastercraft discounted ~$70,000. Msrp 250, selling $180.

[HFarr]

What model? That's a crazy amount to discount something. You would think the mfg's would just adjust the msrp down. I think that would help sales more in an overall perspective. If there is someone who has never purchased a boat before and doesn't know dealers have that kind of leeway with discounts, they may see the manufacturer suggested price and never even try to buy one.

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[MJHSupra]

A dealer here in WI has a new Mastercraft discounted ~$70,000. Msrp 250, selling $180.

That is a big discount.

The dealer here in Knoxville also had some leftover boats at a deep discount. I recall the NXT22s listed at 99K (did not include the 7k trailer). A sub 100K boat.
And some XT24s for around 150/175K. One of their flagships, X24, was at 225K.

They discontinued Mastercraft last spring and picked up the Nautique brand. A new dealer, Current Watersports, will get the Mastercraft territory.

MC is like BU, building a lot of boats and they are now there is finally inventory sitting on the dealer lots. Wait until the 2024s come out. July/August are the months.

[larry_arizona]

28% discount is really good but not unheard of. Considering dealers might finally be sitting on new inventory certainly motivates deeper discounts with new model year boats being announced.

I recall a similar cycle in mid 2000's where dealers had New old stock on ATV's, boats and PWC's and they were giving them away. I bought a 2 year old Honda Aquatrax in 2005 for 45% off MSRP.


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[MJHSupra]

What model? You would think the mfg's would just adjust the msrp down.

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Do boat builders ever do that? I assume that's why different models come out.

How do you think those people will feel that purchased 2023s last fall/winter and the neighbor down the street is getting the same for 30-40K cheaper? Not saying SC, but more along MC or BU.

Good deals, good product, and good service sells boats. MSRP is just funny money - starting point for discounts.

[larry_arizona]

I have never seen boat MSRP's drop. The damage done by a few years of high inflation is permenant, it just set the new baseline. Even if inflation drops to sub 4%, MSRP's won't drop.

Perhaps the discounts will partially offset high MSRP, that's how capitalism works. Simple supply and demand.

I understand Tesla did in the EV world, only difference is EV competition got really heavy forcing Tesla to compete.


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[MJHSupra]

I have never seen boat MSRP's drop. The damage done by a few years of high inflation is permenant, it just set the new baseline. Even if inflation drops to sub 4%, MSRP's won't drop.

Perhaps the discounts will partially offset high MSRP, that's how capitalism works. Simple supply and demand.

I understand Tesla did in the EV world, only difference is EV competition got really heavy forcing Tesla to compete.


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I agree. Think about the SA prices over the years starting from that 2018. That was a great boat for a good price.

[larry_arizona]

The 2018 SA400 could be had right at or below 100k fully loaded. It is an awesome boat. The crazy part is 2018's sell for more now than when they were new.


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[sandm]

Do boat builders ever do that? I assume that's why different models come out.


no one ever drops msrp. taking same basic "unit" for sale and creating a new model are the best ways to drop msrp.
I think 'bu and mc are showing where the market will be going. other boat builders don't have the inventory out there that they do but having that excess hurts all.
people will balk at a 15% discount on a supra boat IF the competing mc/bu are 30% off. ANY good salesman will be able to show the benefits to a new customer why buying a bu/mc is better than SC.

[brad460]

Sorry, just noticed it’s a left over 2022 boat..but still a decent discount..

The 2023 Mastercrafts appear to be about -20% discount..

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230710/035d574e05d4fb1b77219af70a6588ad.jpg


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[larry_arizona]

A mid grade Mastercraft at $250k. Good grief.

Has anyone drove or surfed an X or XT?

I know the Klipsch sound is not well liked.


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[Mxmark4]

A mid grade Mastercraft at $250k. Good grief.

Has anyone drove or surfed an X or XT?

I know the Klipsch sound is not well liked.


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Hard to surf behind a boat designed for the ultimate tubing experience.

[sandm]

cousin buys his boats from prestige in boise. they sell SC, tige and mc. last year he told me the owner was using an x24 as his summer boat as he loved the wake.
my opinion, he had a hard time keeping tige and SC in stock. use what you can't sell.

interesting note, he had an SL last year. i got to surf it and it was awesome to say the least sans the pricetag. he sold it and bought a 22atx as he didn't want the large price. used it a couple of outings this year and he sent me a couple pics of his new 575SE. says it's even better than the SL except the 12gph when surfing....

[larry_arizona]

cousin buys his boats from prestige in boise. they sell SC, tige and mc. last year he told me the owner was using an x24 as his summer boat as he loved the wake.
my opinion, he had a hard time keeping tige and SC in stock. use what you can't sell.

interesting note, he had an SL last year. i got to surf it and it was awesome to say the least sans the pricetag. he sold it and bought a 22atx as he didn't want the large price. used it a couple of outings this year and he sent me a couple pics of his new 575SE. says it's even better than the SL except the 12gph when surfing....

Says a lot to go SL to ATX back to an SE.

A dialed in Supra is going to surf as well as any brand. MC and Nautty may be more luxury
(I still argue MC's are ugly and tower is unforgivable), But Supra has all I need and just left my affordability scale in the last year.

This economy is not going to help either. Inflation, interest rates and lack of wages remotely keeping up will hurt most.

But we all can agree, boats are a luxury not a need.

12gph, wow. How is he calculating his gph? I just did 10 hours last week, mix of cruise and surf and estimated 20 gallons used on a 400, and crew of 9.

Does he literally run surf mode 6-7 hours non stop?

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[sandm]

I believe all they do is surf. he used to board but when I was there last summer not a single board was seen. I'm sure it's simply a matter of full tank, 4hts surfing and 48 gallon fill up later. guessing that's his math. the day I went out they ran around 4hrs and it was nonstop one rider after another. he put in around 45gallons that day in his old SL with the 575.
our tige with the 400 was using around 3gph mix of 30mph to get to the cove and surfing.

I do agree with the comments on supra. if I was in the market for a top tier boat, it would be supra or centurion. no questions asked.

[MJHSupra]

A mid grade Mastercraft at $250k. Good grief.

Has anyone drove or surfed an X or XT?

I know the Klipsch sound is not well liked.


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Been on the X22, not the X24 or X26 to ride.
Have not been on a recent XStar.
Been on a few XTs, not the bigger XT25.

All were nice on the Interior - fit/finish. I think they always had good interior design/function.
Drove nice too. All were able to get out of the water quickly. Good surf waves, but I know the bigger 24s/26s get huge waves. All were dialed-in already with add'l weight in the right locations.
Owners to complain about Klipsch sound system. But as a visitor onboard, it was just music to me.

Fricken towers are UGLY. Centurion is also not pleasing to the eye with that wacky speaker look.
Hope SC does not move to a future redesign and make the PTM that ugly.

[mjb929rr]

Says a lot to go SL to ATX back to an SE.

A dialed in Supra is going to surf as well as any brand. MC and Nautty may be more luxury
(I still argue MC's are ugly and tower is unforgivable), But Supra has all I need and just left my affordability scale in the last year.

This economy is not going to help either. Inflation, interest rates and lack of wages remotely keeping up will hurt most.

But we all can agree, boats are a luxury not a need.

12gph, wow. How is he calculating his gph? I just did 10 hours last week, mix of cruise and surf and estimated 20 gallons used on a 400, and crew of 9.

Does he literally run surf mode 6-7 hours non stop?

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When we surf with 2 adults and 1k lead we are typically about that 12gph as well. I think the 575 is constantly under boost while surfing. Rpm’s run about 3450 at 11.5mph

[Yzfguy06]

What model? That's a crazy amount to discount something. You would think the mfg's would just adjust the msrp down. I think that would help sales more in an overall perspective. If there is someone who has never purchased a boat before and doesn't know dealers have that kind of leeway with discounts, they may see the manufacturer suggested price and never even try to buy one.

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The mfg won’t change the msrp because in the eyes of the consumer it “devalues” the product. It’s easier to put a rebate or incentivize the dealer to discount the product instead with factory help.

[HFarr]

Yeah. I see the bad press with lowering msrp. I guess the point I was trying to make, but didn't word so well, is that the MSRP's never should have gotten as high as they are.
And that the average Joe that may have a family and has never boated before, but is thinking about getting into boating, might decide they need to look at a different hobby if they went window shopping for a new boat. Unless dealers put signs, and online ads out there telling people they can expect to pay a lot less than msrp.

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[skiyaker]

Interesting thread. We bought our 2008 outback V as a holdover in 2009. I believe we paid around $33K which according to the inflation calculator would be about $47K in today's dollars. It's been an awesome boat that my boys have grown up on. Today's new boats certainly have more to offer in terms of comfort, build quality, and technology- but I'm not sure I'll get more than double the utility out of a new one as the trusty OBV. I'll be watching prices if there ends up being some 2023 models available in 2024.

[sandm]

I'll be watching prices if there ends up being some 2023 models available in 2024.

betting you will have choices. currently 2300 2023's for sale on OI and 110 are SC products. might not be quite the selection one would want but there will be leftovers. pricing and interest rates are a whole different conversation :) unless you are shopping mc or 'bu/axis, I don't suspect most of the other brands are sweating inventory.. yet...

[larry_arizona]

I read that centurion was offering significant factory discounts on remaining 2023's
20k-35k


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[sandm]

I read that centurion was offering significant factory discounts on remaining 2023's
20k-35k


35k on a 180k boat is less than 20% and I bet that the 35k is on 200k+ boats. mjb929 posted up in the other supra thread that he got 17% off and that's from a boat line that doesn't appear to have a lot of inventory parked.
I'll use the word significant whey they hit 30%. have seen that on holdovers pre-covid.

[larry_arizona]

35k on a 180k boat is less than 20% and I bet that the 35k is on 200k+ boats. mjb929 posted up in the other supra thread that he got 17% off and that's from a boat line that doesn't appear to have a lot of inventory parked.
I'll use the word significant whey they hit 30%. have seen that on holdovers pre-covid.

The only difference is this is factory cash, dealers still have their discounts they can choose to offer on top.


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[Holdmybeer]

We have Malbiu's around the mid-west going at 30%+ discount for hold over 2022's this late in the 2023 season. If they drop much more it might be too good to pass up.

[HFarr]

I love my 2021 Makai that I bought brand new, but if I could go back in time (ha ha), I would have bought that slightly used SE 550 that my dealer had on the lot for 140k. And probably could have gotten it for little bit less to be honest. It was also red and had a custom logo gatorstep swim platform.

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[KnoxMojo]

We have Malbiu's around the mid-west going at 30%+ discount for hold over 2022's this late in the 2023 season. If they drop much more it might be too good to pass up.

But you'd have a Mali-b-ewe...lol

[sandm]

But you'd have a Mali-b-ewe...lol

nobody wants to be representin the 'bu.....
https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMjkzNGIxOGItOGI1Zi00MzZiLTliMTItY2NkYzIxYmVlNT BjXkEyXkFqcGdeQXRyYW5zY29kZS13b3JrZmxvdw@@._V1_QL7 5_UY281_CR45,0,500,281_.jpg

[Yzfguy06]

I have deal at my local Supra dealer for about 24% off right now for a sa. 20k in Supra reabates.

[larry_arizona]

I have deal at my local Supra dealer for about 24% off right now for a sa. 20k in Supra reabates.

Excellent deal anf congrats on the SA, you will love it


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[Mxmark4]

With the QC issues Malibu is going thru right now I wouldn't want to take on a new Bu. As nice as some of them are the QC for a 200k plus boat is awful. Torn cushions, gel issues, and other general sloppy work.

[MJHSupra]

I have deal at my local Supra dealer for about 24% off right now for a sa. 20k in Supra reabates.

What major options does it have?

[Yzfguy06]

What major options does it have?

Boat Cover - Over Folded Tower (Black) $1,230.00
Prop 16x13.9 ACME 3591 $80.00
Raptor 400 INC
Main - Metal flake $690.00
Phender Pro Cleat and GoPro Attachment $760.00
Supra Graphic - White $230.00
Gatorstep Nonskid - 3 colors $1,050.00
Heater with 2 Pull Out Vents $1,080.00
Vinyl Accent - Match Accent $250.00
Underwater Transom Lights, RGB $1,250.00
2 - Group 27 Marine Batteries $580.00
Freight from TN $5,900.00
Shipping Cover From Factory $510.00
JL Audio Tower Speakers - 1 Pair $3,220.00
Tower Contrast - Color $780.00
15" Spare Tire - Side Mount $830.00
Ratchet Transom Staps $280.00
Trailer Nonskid - 3 Color $520.00
Two Tone Fenders - Gloss Paint


Msrp was 198900 down to 15200. Also has the 400 motor.

[larry_arizona]

$5900 freight has gotten out of hand.




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[HFarr]

Where is it shipping to?

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[Yzfguy06]

$5900 freight has gotten out of hand.

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You’re telling me.

[Yzfguy06]

Where is it shipping to?

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California

[Zog]

$5900 freight has gotten out of hand.



That would make me consider bringing it home myself. Perhaps do a factory pickup and spend a week out on the lakes in Tennessee!

[Yzfguy06]

That would make me consider bringing it home myself. Perhaps do a factory pickup and spend a week out on the lakes in Tennessee!

As amazing as that sounds the boat is already here.

[KnoxMojo]

As amazing as that sounds the boat is already here.That's still a really solid deal. I'd ask about any extended warranty offers since it's about to be a leftover boat

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[Yzfguy06]

That's still a really solid deal. I'd ask about any extended warranty offers since it's about to be a leftover boat

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Already did. There isn’t any. I was told that at the boat shows this year was the first time in 3 years that added warranty to the boat.

[larry_arizona]

Make your own Supra SA build thread and share details, pics etc.


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[HFarr]

Leftover boat?

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[KnoxMojo]

Leftover boat?

Sent from my SM-G781V using TapatalkCan't be a 23 leftover until the 24s come out, but they're preparing for it. Lol

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[Holdmybeer]

But you'd have a Mali-b-ewe...lol

I see about getting beat up over a Bu....but msrp $209k....in my drive after trade for $152k. 2022 23LSV.

Truthfully my wife would kill me and that payment for 3-4 months a year, but you can see the thought process.

[KnoxMojo]

I see about getting beat up over a Bu....but msrp $209k....in my drive after trade for $152k. 2022 23LSV.

Truthfully my wife would kill me and that payment for 3-4 months a year, but you can see the thought process.Those thoughts for me are fleeting at best with these interest rates. Don't care the brand. I couldn't fathom going from a 65k Mojo, now my 100k SA to anything that's 150. Lol

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[Yzfguy06]

I see about getting beat up over a Bu....but msrp $209k....in my drive after trade for $152k. 2022 23LSV.

Truthfully my wife would kill me and that payment for 3-4 months a year, but you can see the thought process.

That’s a true statement. Interest rates are dumb right now.

[sandm]

Those thoughts for me are fleeting at best with these interest rates. Don't care the brand. I couldn't fathom going from a 65k Mojo, now my 100k SA to anything that's 150. Lol


I'm 100% with ya. we were amazed going from a 42k supra to a 90k tige over the years and we got a STEAL on the last boat. I can't imagine paying 120k for a moomba let alone 150+ starting for a supra.
175k boat with 20% down over 20 years is a grand a month. that's a lot of scratch for a toy that most only use 50-75hrs a year. add gas/insurance into it and now your talking ballpark 15k/yr to own it.

what I find more amazing.... there's a 2023 heyday on OI for over 100k.... never thought I'd see that from a brand that was touting "affordable and easy to tow". all in that's a 110k toy.

[larry_arizona]

That’s a true statement. Interest rates are dumb right now.

What interest rates are out there?

My lender went from 3.5% to 11.5% on boats for 240 months. Pretty much says they don't want any more boat loans.


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[Yzfguy06]

What interest rates are out there?

My lender went from 3.5% to 11.5% on boats for 240 months. Pretty much says they don't want any more boat loans.


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On 240 months I’ve seen as low as 7.59. Most are talking 7.99

[sandm]

What interest rates are out there?

My lender went from 3.5% to 11.5% on boats for 240 months. Pretty much says they don't want any more boat loans.


is it the boat or is it the fact that it's a 240 month note?
I would suspect that most actuaries are calling out the economic environment that's building and advising against a long term outlook on what is turning back into a depreciating asset again.

our current checking bank(not the one we use for vehicle/boat loans) is at 8.99% but only goes to 15 years. they won't touch 20. my CU that does boat loans will only do 5year balloon on a 15 year amortization anymore and their rates are in the same ballpark.

[larry_arizona]

I can still find 240 month rates around 6% locally, but I think you are right on banks and CU's reacting to this economy.

Next 18-24 months is going to hurt.


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[Yzfguy06]

I can still find 240 month rates around 6% locally, but I think you are right on banks and CU's reacting to this economy.

Next 18-24 months is going to hurt.


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That’s better than most. Which bank?

[larry_arizona]

That’s better than most. Which bank?

I was wrong, best local rate for 240 is 7.24%
At financial plus credit union in Michigan.


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[Buddy68]

Boat Market has slowed, my dealer has inventory of moombas and Supras.

160k Makai is crazy. It was mentioned above about being priced out, I am officially priced out of a Supra and damn near priced out of a moomba.


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Club Royale sold out of Supras last week. Hope your SA is treating you well!

[larry_arizona]

Club Royale sold out of Supras last week. Hope your SA is treating you well!

That SA450 was a great color combo!!!


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[mgswake]

Since this thread went all over the place I figure I will keep it random. Did you’ll see the new paragon last night? Paragon 23 msrp 435k. Or you could get a SL and SA for that price. Yikes that is an expensive boat. I think they were 250k or something when Nautique first released them.

[htfit]

Since this thread went all over the place I figure I will keep it random. Did you’ll see the new paragon last night? Paragon 23 msrp 435k. Or you could get a SL and SA for that price. Yikes that is an expensive boat. I think they were 250k or something when Nautique first released them.That is the price the Pavati's are going for now.

I do really like the telescoping tower on the paragon. Mainly because of the convenience of being able to leave the bimini up when trailering. Just lower the tower and go.

But check out this screen size on the pavati. Holy smokes! 30901

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[Yzfguy06]

Since this thread went all over the place I figure I will keep it random. Did you’ll see the new paragon last night? Paragon 23 msrp 435k. Or you could get a SL and SA for that price. Yikes that is an expensive boat. I think they were 250k or something when Nautique first released them.

Careful Larry will tell you to create your own thread… lol

[MJHSupra]

We surfed on Sat am. Brand new one surfing down the lake next to us.


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[New Guy]

One thing that everyone is forgetting is this little thing called floor plan interest. When a dealer has inventory they typically have it on floor plan so it is not taking up all their cash. When you start to pay interest at 10-12% for 2,3,4 + million in inventory you get pretty motivated to move it. I am not sure in the recreational industry but if they make them use third party floor plan it gets even worse. The manufacture no longer has any skin in the game (They made their sale to the dealer) so the discounts typically have to be made up at the dealer level squeezing the dealer even tighter. There will be deals to be made.

With that said our 14 Mojo has been fantastic and we have a really hard time going from a $67k boat new to a $120+ I don't think we will be in a hurry to do anything.

[KnoxMojo]

You have a very good point, but your signature says "hey you only live once"..so treat yourself and buy a new boat. Should be about paid off, that is a healthy down payment.

[j.mo]

Why pay 120k for a moomba when there are handfuls of 2022 XT24’s and 23LSV’s on the market that can be had in that range


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[Holdmybeer]

Why pay 120k for a moomba when there are handfuls of 2022 XT24’s and 23LSV’s on the market that can be had in that range


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You are not wrong. I don't care for MC and some have said Bu quality control fell off during Covid. I swear if I get this 23LSV email 1 more time, I'm going to have to throw an offer down and see if the dealer takes it.....lmao

[Yzfguy06]

You are not wrong. I don't care for MC and some have said Bu quality control fell off during Covid. I swear if I get this 23LSV email 1 more time, I'm going to have to throw an offer down and see if the dealer takes it.....lmao

Nah doesn’t matter how cheap I’m passing.

[j.mo]

Nah doesn’t matter how cheap I’m passing.

Disclaimer - I’m not a MC or Malibu guy.

But you’re telling me, you’d pay MC/Malibu money, for a moomba?


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[KnoxMojo]

Why pay 120k for a moomba when there are handfuls of 2022 XT24’s and 23LSV’s on the market that can be had in that range


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Just looked on only inboards, to get an xt23 or 23lsv for 120k range, gotta go back to 2019-2020. I'll admit I didn't scroll them all, just the first couple pages. 2023 xt23 around 180-200, 23lsv cheapest I saw was 150.

[j.mo]

Just looked on only inboards, to get an xt23 or 23lsv for 120k range, gotta go back to 2019-2020. I'll admit I didn't scroll them all, just the first couple pages. 2023 xt23 around 180-200, 23lsv cheapest I saw was 150.

Here locally where I am, plenty of year old 23LSV to be had in the 130s, asking. With cash there’s always room for less.
And I guarantee you, there’s wiggle room in this XT24 at 140k.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230813/d5f7cbc88c4aa969432de22c057f38d6.png


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[j.mo]

Or this
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230813/4461ecc4fcfe2255afdd615e7ed0f9f0.png

If you don’t think 125k cashiers check buys either of those boats, I’d prob bet against you.

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[Yzfguy06]

Disclaimer - I’m not a MC or Malibu guy.

But you’re telling me, you’d pay MC/Malibu money, for a moomba?


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I’m not paying moomba money for a moomba either. I’m going to hold til it comes around a bit and buy a used Supra at this point. The fir and finish for the moomba just isn’t there especially for what they want for them.

[KnoxMojo]

Or this
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230813/4461ecc4fcfe2255afdd615e7ed0f9f0.png

If you don’t think 125k cashiers check buys either of those boats, I’d prob bet against you.

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Then make an offer if you can cut a check like that, those look like the 2 lowest price in the whole country. Don't forget the cost to transfer warranty. So I am betting you won't make an offer, but if you do and buy 1 for 125k, I will send you a case of your favorite brew. Lol

[KnoxMojo]

I’m not paying moomba money for a moomba either. I’m going to hold til it comes around a bit and buy a used Supra at this point. The fir and finish for the moomba just isn’t there especially for what they want for them.

When is the last time you were on a new Moomba? From 21 to current, they have come a long ways and more tech than my 18 SA. The Craz, Mojo and Makai are really nice and only getting better. The conundrum is always a new "budget" boat or a 2-3 year old used premium boat. That is for you to decide.

[Yzfguy06]

When is the last time you were on a new Moomba? From 21 to current, they have come a long ways and more tech than my 18 SA. The Craz, Mojo and Makai are really nice and only getting better. The conundrum is always a new "budget" boat or a 2-3 year old used premium boat. That is for you to decide.

Within the last year. I looked at a mojo. I couldn’t justify the price. For 25k more I could get into a Supra.

[KnoxMojo]

Within the last year. I looked at a mojo. I couldn’t justify the price. For 25k more I could get into a Supra.

Don't blame you there. I think their fit and finishes have come a long way, but can't go wrong with Supra. That new Moomba power tower is pretty sweet. And the dual screens, pus chill tech now. If I was buying new, The Mojo would be on my lift. But I would look hard for a similar priced 21 or 22 SA.

[Yzfguy06]

Don't blame you there. I think their fit and finishes have come a long way, but can't go wrong with Supra. That new Moomba power tower is pretty sweet. And the dual screens, pus chill tech now. If I was buying new, The Mojo would be on my lift. But I would look hard for a similar priced 21 or 22 SA.

It’s really the tower for me. The power tower for 24 is dope. But like you said you can find a low hour sa or sl for about the same. If I recall correctly there haven’t been major changes to the sa since 20 .

[KnoxMojo]

It’s really the tower for me. The power tower for 24 is dope. But like you said you can find a low hour sa or sl for about the same. If I recall correctly there haven’t been major changes to the sa since 20 .

Yeah, not much since 2020, new seat and steering wheel, thrusters if you want them, couple other things here and there, but overall, the same boat

[larry_arizona]

2020 SA is the biggest bang for the Buck surf wise.

Don't forget 21's has the heated SW and gatorstep and new windshield


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[KnoxMojo]

2020 SA is the biggest bang for the Buck surf wise.

Don't forget 21's has the heated SW and gatorstep and new windshield


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oh yes, the heated passenger seat, my wife would make me get at least a 21 for that alone. lol

[larry_arizona]

oh yes, the heated passenger seat, my wife would make me get at least a 21 for that alone. lol

Funny, used the heated pass seat for the first time last Thursday lol, never used the heated wheel


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[Holdmybeer]

Just to follow up...the email I keep getting is a very well optioned out 23LSV 2022 left over at $140k, brand new, full warranty. CFO isn't crazy about the color scheme and interest rates are the major hurddle. Not to say anything bad about the new Moombas but almost loaded 23LSV for Mojo money......just saying.

However, after seeing SL and SE at Norris for a week....I'm really liking the Supra line up more and more. I finally saw thrusters in action at the marina....and LARRY, I take all the mockery back my guy. CFO said new boat has thrusters or don't bring it home.

[KnoxMojo]

They're getting killed on floor plan with a boat that's almost 2 years old, that should also tell you something. Lol

[j.mo]

Just to follow up...the email I keep getting is a very well optioned out 23LSV 2022 left over at $140k, brand new, full warranty. CFO isn't crazy about the color scheme and interest rates are the major hurddle. Not to say anything bad about the new Moombas but almost loaded 23LSV for Mojo money......just saying.

However, after seeing SL and SE at Norris for a week....I'm really liking the Supra line up more and more. I finally saw thrusters in action at the marina....and LARRY, I take all the mockery back my guy. CFO said new boat has thrusters or don't bring it home.

Told ya.
I bet you swing a better deal than that..


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[j.mo]

Then make an offer if you can cut a check like that, those look like the 2 lowest price in the whole country. Don't forget the cost to transfer warranty. So I am betting you won't make an offer, but if you do and buy 1 for 125k, I will send you a case of your favorite brew. Lol

I can, but why. I have a perfectly good boat right now lol.

But, I am just saying, the prices can be tempting. Especially when comparing them to budget line boats. Easier to sell, more features etc.


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