23 Supra SR vs 23 Mooba Kaiyen

[callynoah]

Looking at both of the boats wondering pros and cons of each? Dont want anything larger than 21.5 ft, and our family just about 100% only surfs so that would be the only wave I am concerned about. Any input would be appreciated. Thanks.

[KnoxMojo]

SR all day. Been on a few of them. They throw down. The tower and bimini is better and the surf system is better than the Moomba. Add an extra 500 pounds and 2-3 people can surf and wakeboard all day no problems.

[Hayden]

As far as stock displacement goes, see chart below. In terms of options vs. stock, you’d have to run the list down. SR will have better fit/finish for sure, but I don’t know what is standard for the 2023’s on either boat. I’m sure others will have comments that give you more information. What elevation is your lake? How large is your regular crew?

https://i.imgur.com/7GsLFwx.png

[jcredible]

I've had moombas and now in a Supra. If you can afford the Supra, go for it! Some of the key areas:

1. Creature Features - Tower, Screen layout, heated seats, stereo, etc. are just much better.

2. Wave - Have not surfed an SR, but the consistency of my SA vs. Mojo wave is just way better and easier to use.

Go Supra if you can in my opinion....but you will be happy with both!

[sandm]

I'd put some weight on what Knox states as he's in their back yard and I get a feeling he gets to ride a LOT of boats :)

that said we considered the SR back in 2020 when we bought our last boat and picked the kaiyen over for 2 reasons:
-the longer the hull in most cases the easier it will be to get a longer wave out of it. a 22ft boat is almost always going to be a longer wave than a 20ft and more ballast should widen the gap.
-when it comes time to resell, the 21.5 market is going to be more active than the 20ft. our perceptions were that there were quite a few leftover SR's to pick from back then which told me they don't have the same market that a 21-23ft boat will have.

everyone is correct tho that the features, tech and overall quality of materials will be far superior in the supra but the price will reflect that.
good luck either way....

[larry_arizona]

Out of curiosity, how do these 2 boats compare in price? Not MSRP, but out the door price.

I will add the Supra goodies are "Supra"nice. I still think the FXone tower is the best on the market (perhaps the Nautique telescope is better).


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[KnoxMojo]

Thanks Sandm. Yes, very fortunate to get to ride so many of the great boats around the Knoxville area. The Kaiyen is a solid boat at 21'5". For me, the tiny bow is a deal breaker. We did the photo shoot for 2021 when it first came out. With about 400 in lead and 5 in the boat, Rapa and Sylveria were throwing down. The SR at 20'11" just feels better, almost a smaller SA. I asked Nic if he could throw a double of the Kaiyen, he said not without a lot of effort. Asked him about the SR, he said with about 500 over stock and a normal crew, no problems. The Kaiyen does have a noticeably larger cabin and the walkthrough is nice, but having kids, it just wouldn't work as the moms and kids love bow space. Demo both, 1 will call to you.

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[Holdmybeer]

I know you mention not wanting to be over 21.5ft. Is this a hard limit based on lake restrictions, or personal preference. Either is valid, but just asking.

I bring this up because at 22ft you have the Craz. Being redesigned you get a lot of carry over goodies from Supra at a lower price point. But if you have to stay at 21.5ft, I understand completely and ignore my comment.

[Hayden]

Out of curiosity, how do these 2 boats compare in price? Not MSRP, but out the door price.

I'm interested to know this as well.


Not to derail the thread but it got me thinking...

With regards to towers, the stock A3 tower for the 2021 Mojo's at the time was poor but the upgraded Pro tower was much better (imo). I looked at both my 2021 Pro tower and the 2023 SR tower and I didn't notice much difference in function, strength, hinge points/access, etc. There are a lot of people here who rave about the Supra towers being so good, what, in your opinion makes it so much better than the regular Moomba Pro tower?

https://i.imgur.com/xpFaWtY.png
https://i.imgur.com/FgDAUrZ.png

And a final question if anyone wants to comment, where do the SA,SL,SE pickup all their extra boat weight from? Just more fiberglass? The SA maxes out at 3500 lbs ballast, so it's not as pronounced on that model but both the SL&SE have 4000/4700 ballast respectively AND +1000 lbs boat weight over comparable Moomba's. Is it just the extra fiberglass to allow the higher capacity?

I have stock weight envy problems. I want an SL.

[larry_arizona]

During the skiers tour, the majority of the Supra extra boat weight is from the fxone tower, the rest is just the added mass of more features/equipment. Fiberglass thickness and structure is the same between moomba and Supra.

Granted most Supras have some fiberglass interior structure/storage behind the captains chair that adds mass.

FX1 is a stout tower of more than just some bent 2.5" pipes, the fx1 has quite a bit of machined billet structure along with the power mechanisms that sits below the deck.

The power feature is awesome and like the pro tower allows the Supras to fit in an 8 foot garage door.

Plus I love the look and customization of colors you can get.

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[KnoxMojo]

The moomba pro tower is the basically the old Supra tower from 2017. The FX1 is far superior in both function and form. The bimini alone is amazing. It's also taller for more head room.

[larry_arizona]

If Supra ever designs another tower, I would fully expect the FX1 to be offered on the moombas.

PTM makes the towers for Supra.


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[Hayden]

Here are the 2023 Makai and SE lined up:

https://i.imgur.com/MNOVGSz.png

https://i.imgur.com/p3fOc9F.png

The Makai's weight capacity from the owners manual on the site says 2500 lbs. If we add them up, you have one boat (Makai) with a nameplate capacity of 18 people + 2500 gear + 4000 ballast +70 gal fuel (420 lbs) = 6920 lbs

Then you have the SE which, as shown, is 18 people + 2800 gear + 4700 ballast +83 gal fuel (500 lbs) = 8000 lbs

If both boats are roughly the same length/width (24.5'x102") and the additional boat weight is all in the FX1 tower, (not the fiberglass), then why couldn't the Makai run an additional (8000 lbs - 6920 lbs) = 1080 lbs of gear/people capacity?

If most of the additional weight is the FX1 tower then the Makai being 5200 lbs vs the SE being 6150 lbs would mean the Makai could actually take on even more, no? Another 950 lbs between boat weight difference and just over 2000 lbs of additional weight if you add them both together.

[larry_arizona]

Here are the 2023 Makai and SE lined up:

https://i.imgur.com/MNOVGSz.png

https://i.imgur.com/p3fOc9F.png

The Makai's weight capacity from the owners manual on the site says 2500 lbs. If we add them up, you have one boat (Makai) with a nameplate capacity of 18 people + 2500 gear + 4000 ballast +70 gal fuel (420 lbs) = 6920 lbs

Then you have the SE which, as shown, is 18 people + 2800 gear + 4700 ballast +83 gal fuel (500 lbs) = 8000 lbs

If both boats are roughly the same length/width (24.5'x102") and the additional boat weight is all in the FX1 tower, (not the fiberglass), then why couldn't the Makai run an additional (8000 lbs - 6920 lbs) = 1080 lbs of gear/people capacity?

If most of the additional weight is the FX1 tower then the Makai being 5200 lbs vs the SE being 6150 lbs would mean the Makai could actually take on even more, no? Another 950 lbs between boat weight difference and just over 2000 lbs of additional weight if you add them both together.

Technically I think the way to calculate max rated weight is boat weight + max passenger/gear rating + max factory ballast.

SE: 6150+2800+4700=13650
Makai: 5200+2500+4000=11700

This is what SC has rated the max capacity

I honestly can't explain why the difference in max rating, but I have always thought the freeboard was higher on a Supra. Maybe I am wrong.

Also I don't think boats are rated for max occupants plus max gear. SE isn't 18 people plus 2800#, it should be 18 people or 2800# added weight, whichever comes first.


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[Hayden]

Also I don't think boats are rated for max occupants plus max gear. SE isn't 18 people plus 2800#, it should be 18 people or 2800# added weight, whichever comes first.

Yep, agree with this. I only listed passengers/length/width because they are the same on both boats.

I was trying to make the argument that if it's not in the fiberglass/hull and it's all in the FX1 rack, then there's no reason why Makai owners shouldn't be dumping a minimum extra of 2000 lbs ballast into their boats :p

[larry_arizona]

Yep, agree with this. I only listed passengers/length/width because they are the same on both boats.

I was trying to make the argument that if it's not in the fiberglass/hull and it's all in the FX1 rack, then there's no reason why Makai owners shouldn't be dumping a minimum extra of 2000 lbs ballast into their boats :p

I recall I have read on here of Makai owners running 1500#+ lead plus big crew.


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[HFarr]

Technically I think the way to calculate max rated weight is boat weight + max passenger/gear rating + max factory ballast.

SE: 6150+2800+4700=13650
Makai: 5200+2500+4000=11700

This is what SC has rated the max capacity

I honestly can't explain why the difference in max rating, but I have always thought the freeboard was higher on a Supra. Maybe I am wrong.

Also I don't think boats are rated for max occupants plus max gear. SE isn't 18 people plus 2800#, it should be 18 people or 2800# added weight, whichever comes first.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI have a 2021 Makai with the Wakemakers upgraded bags, and I have run with 18 people, several were kids, but also with 15 grown adults, all the men (11)were 210+, ( I am 240) and the ladies were 150+. I can promise you we were easily12k lbs or better. The boat didn't really struggle and certainly didn't feel or look like it was going to sink. I know it can easily handle more weight than the stickers claim.

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[larry_arizona]

I have a 2021 Makai with the Wakemakers upgraded bags, and I have run with 18 people, several were kids, but also with 15 grown adults, all the men (11)were 210+, ( I am 240) and the ladies were 150+. I can promise you we were easily12k lbs or better. The boat didn't really struggle and certainly didn't feel or look like it was going to sink. I know it can easily handle more weight than the stickers claim.

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The NMMA rating must have a list of safety factor built in.....

1) people move around the boat
2) water and wind conditions

It's about safety and stability in all conditions.

I have no doubt these boats could add way more NMMA rating.


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[callynoah]

With regards to the size I need it to fit in an 8 foot door, also our lake is shallow and the drafts are decent on both the boats and really only 5-6 of us ever in the boat so no need for anything larger, the boats are actually 20 ft 11 for the SR and 21.5 ft for the kaiyen. I have not been in a kaiyan just saw them at the dealers and like them, however was able to go for a surf behind the SR and there was 6 of us in there with 400lb of lead and my kids were really suprised how easy it is to find the sweet spot with the wave. the price is probably 15 to 20 thousand diff, but im just looking for a boat in that size range that throws a good wave. The fit and finish on the supra is pretty amazing compared to the moomba but you pay for it. Also the craz is nice but even with the pro tower wont fit under my garage door. basically looking for a good upgrade from our mondo that has been great just want something a bit bigger and newer and would be happy with either as long as it throws a good surf wave.

[Hayden]

If it's only $15-20k difference between stock/unoptioned boats, I would definitely go with the SR.

[Hayden]

The moomba pro tower is the basically the old Supra tower from 2017. The FX1 is far superior in both function and form. The bimini alone is amazing. It's also taller for more head room.

This is funny and would be a negative feature for me.

I've installed a much taller, after market seat post to get me closer to the bimini. At our latitiude, even in mid July the sun isn't directly overhead, it kinda makes an arc at maybe 50-60degrees(???) to the horizon. Catches you on the neck/shoulders/arms and burns you easily w/o sunscreeen but also can be directly in your line of sight for a good part of the day.

#firstworldproblems

[larry_arizona]

If it's only $15-20k difference between stock/unoptioned boats, I would definitely go with the SR.

Based on msrp,

SR starts at 160k
Kaiyen 104.5k

But I believe Supra still has a bigger dealer discount and I recall was offering a factory rebate that would close the gap.

If the OTD is 15-20k different, I 1000% agree go with the SR.


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[KnoxMojo]

This is funny and would be a negative feature for me.

I've installed a much taller, after market seat post to get me closer to the bimini. At our latitiude, even in mid July the sun isn't directly overhead, it kinda makes an arc at maybe 50-60degrees(???) to the horizon. Catches you on the neck/shoulders/arms and burns you easily w/o sunscreeen but also can be directly in your line of sight for a good part of the day.

#firstworldproblems

The FX1 bimini is something like 8-10' long and about as wide as the boat. Combine that with a powered height adjustable seat with flip up bolster, it would be great for you. Also invest in spf 50 long sleeve sun shirts. I have probably 10 of them I wear all through the summer. We are out 3-4 days a week and never burn. Keep the stoke alive in Canada!

[cucv]

It's nice to hear some of the positive aspects of the Moomba pro tower, I've read so many times it's not worth the extra cash with no justification. Having not seen one in person it's hard to tell for myself.
I've been shopping the Mojo and SL and as I've been quoting them, the gap is over $60k. I'd be amazed if the Supra could be had for $15-$20k more.

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[callynoah]

Irregardless of the price which so many seem fixated on as the diff maybe more I really just originally wanted to know which boat will throw the best surf wave as I can not find much info(videos/reviews) on the SR on the internet. So any help would be appreciated as I just want an upgraded wave from my mondo.

[sandm]

you aren't going to find a lot of info out there on the SR. it's a very low volume seller for skiers choice and I can't say theres a single SR owner on either forum. not sure where you are located but check with surrounding dealers and see if anyone has one that you can demo. kaiyens are pretty readily available and there's a few on here that might give you a tug if your local. what ultimately took the sr off the list for us were -lack of any documented waves, -lack of demo or people to demo one and -perceived lack of reselling due to low production and ultimately a boat in the 20ft class. the vast majority of shoppers out there don't shop 20ft unless in the midwest with lake restrictions.

having had the same size boat as the mondo and moving up to a 22ft, the difference in the waves was night and day. I'd choose the longer hull if the supra creature comforts aren't important to you and your family. most shorter boats can serve up a wave with lots of push and height but to get length, you need hull. I would say tho that the kaiyen is likely going to want another grand in lead or ballast to shine where the supra might not need more out of the gate. the kaiyen's biggest downside as knox points out is the small bow but that is a deal-breaker for some and a complete non-issue for others(like us :) )

[larry_arizona]

OP,

So which one did you buy?


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[KnoxMojo]

ultimately a boat in the 20ft class. the vast majority of shoppers out there don't shop 20ft unless in the midwest with lake restrictions.



SR is 20'11", might as well be 21' is as we know is a lot bigger that a 20'. If the OP askes this on the facebook group, he will get plenty of info that he just won't find here. I may be the only person on here that has been on both, an 18 SR, 20 SR and 21 Kaiyen. That being said, both will be an upgrade in wave from a 20' 98 or 99" beam Mondo. Boils down to what level boat you want

[sandm]

If the OP asks this on the facebook group, he will get plenty of info that he just won't find here. I may be the only person on here that has been on both, an 18 SR, 20 SR and 21 Kaiyen. That being said, both will be an upgrade in wave from a 20' 98 or 99" beam Mondo. Boils down to what level boat you want

Agreed and well put... sure the op will be stoked with either.

[996scott]

It's nice to hear some of the positive aspects of the Moomba pro tower, I've read so many times it's not worth the extra cash with no justification. Having not seen one in person it's hard to tell for myself.
I've been shopping the Mojo and SL and as I've been quoting them, the gap is over $60k. I'd be amazed if the Supra could be had for $15-$20k more.

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The Moomba Pro Tower is great. I believe it is what used to be on the Supra a few years back. I got one on my Craz only because if folds lower than the A3 (standard) tower and I needed that to get it in my garage. I wasn't wanting to spend the extra $ for the upgraded tower but I did and I am really glad I did. It is so much more solid/sturdy looking to me. It has the side tow points which we use a fair amount. The bimini on the Pro tower is also bigger than the bimini on the A3.