Study on wakesurf boats/shoreline

[HFarr]

This popped up on my phone under Google news. It makes me nervous and have questions about the study.

https://kstp.com/uncategorized/study-wakesurf-boats-need-extra-distance-from-shoreline-to-reduce-impact/

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[mgswake]

The study was very vague. Surf boat vs non surf boat. Pretty flawed in my opinion. Now if you compared a 23 foot wake boat and included factory weight plus ballast (if used)and compared to a 23 foot cuddly cabin, including its factory weight. That would be a starting point. What are they considering a wake surf boat? You can surf an OBV or a loaded SE. I am sure the waves would be vastly different. Those are just rough examples. My point is this study is horrible. I feel almost as bad for the students as I do the Wakesurfer community. Feels more like a witch hunt than a sound scientific study. Very flawed in my opinion.

[sandm]

if you were to compare a supra se loaded down and a 25ft cuddy cabin, the wave from the cuddy at 18 is going to be just as powerful and large as the wave from the supra at 12. they won't talk about that tho. running up and down the fox river I ran across too many cruisers running in the 15-25 range that can toss a pretty decent wave that looked like it would surf great.


my .02... what's driving all of this are that almost every wake boat has 1000watts driving 4 hlcd tower speakers and loaded up with 10 or 12 people all carrying on and having a good time. couple a soundtrack that most don't want to listen to from their docks and owners surfing too close to shore and you have a recipe for all the pushback on surf boats... wakes just happen to be the easy target to remove what some call a nuisance.

owner "x" has a teenage neighbor kid that comes home next door from his night job every night blasting too short from his dual12's. betting at some point owner "x" either calls cops or goes and talks to 'rents to fix issue. same owner "x" loads up the boat on the weekend, heads to the lake and blasts marshmello from his hlcd's on the lake that is lined with houses.

inconsiderate morons will be the death of the sport on some lakes.

[larry_arizona]

A lot of it is the “get off my lawn” attitude.

Having lived on a lake for 18 years with a strict no “on plane” boating before 11am or after 7pm policy. Many who liked the tow sports were directly opposed to the fishing crowd.

It was annoying, but you learn to deal with it.

Funny part was wake surfing in not on plane so you could do it and not get ticketed.

It boils down to being respectful.


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[larry_arizona]

One last thing, Fishermen can be just as “reckless” as tow sports.

They have knocked my dock out of place with their boats, snagged lures on my pontoon boat, boat covers, around my jet ski handle bars and on my dock.

Was often in the yard when they did it without apologies and then got pissed when I didn’t untangle their lures or give them back.

Last beef is the one lake i frequent has fishing tournaments, what a shitshow those are.

Bass boats racing around the lake at 50mph (lake speed limit is posted at 35), then when the weigh in occurs, they set up a booth right on the boat ramp, 20+ boats beached around the boat ramps (2 lane launch) for about an hour.

No launching or leaving during that PLUS having to wait until they all pull their 20 boats out.

Then they dump their fish out at the dock, some live, most die and the launch is littered with dead fish and the next 3 weeks it reeks as they sink and rot at the ramp.

Happens about once a month.

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[HFarr]

if you were to compare a supra se loaded down and a 25ft cuddy cabin, the wave from the cuddy at 18 is going to be just as powerful and large as the wave from the supra at 12. they won't talk about that tho. running up and down the fox river I ran across too many cruisers running in the 15-25 range that can toss a pretty decent wave that looked like it would surf great.


my .02... what's driving all of this are that almost every wake boat has 1000watts driving 4 hlcd tower speakers and loaded up with 10 or 12 people all carrying on and having a good time. couple a soundtrack that most don't want to listen to from their docks and owners surfing too close to shore and you have a recipe for all the pushback on surf boats... wakes just happen to be the easy target to remove what some call a nuisance.

owner "x" has a teenage neighbor kid that comes home next door from his night job every night blasting too short from his dual12's. betting at some point owner "x" either calls cops or goes and talks to 'rents to fix issue. same owner "x" loads up the boat on the weekend, heads to the lake and blasts marshmello from his hlcd's on the lake that is lined with houses.

inconsiderate morons will be the death of the sport on some lakes.I think you are on target! Getting the EPA or River Keepers to fight the battle for them....

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[brad460]

My friend lives on the Minocqua chain on a small lake (Mid Lake)..Big push to ban / discourage surfing on his lake. The residents claim it stirs up the lake and ruins the shoreline. Jet skis are far more welcome. No mention of loud stereos..

As folks continue to add more lead more weight for bigger waves (far bigger waves than they need to surf) I suspect lake associations will start pushing back and implementing restrictions on surf boats.

As much as I am anti-loud stereo, none of this push back has much to do with loud stereos. ... It really is the large waves these boats put off….

[sandm]

My friend lives on the Minocqua chain on a small lake (Mid Lake)..Big push to ban / discourage surfing on his lake. The residents claim it stirs up the lake and ruins the shoreline. Jet skis are far more welcome. No mention of loud stereos..

As folks continue to add more lead more weight for bigger waves (far bigger waves than they need to surf) I suspect lake associations will start pushing back and implementing restrictions on surf boats.

As much as I am anti-loud stereo, none of this push back has much to do with loud stereos. ... It really is the large waves these boats put off….

my experience has been that loud stereos garner more bitching than wakes but loud stereos won't get ANY traction during the daytime hours where wakesurf waves can be fought and stand a better chance of victory both day and night. get rid of wakeboats and you kill 2 birds theory and waves are easier to go after.

[HFarr]

The mention of larger boats , cabin cruisers, making just as large or larger wakes is spot on. Why pick on a wake boat? When running in wake mode, the wave is large, but also slow traveling. Also only one sided if set properly. A cruiser will throw huge wake on both sides and it travels at a much faster speed.

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[haknslash]

Yea I remember this surfing vid behind a big cruiser. Wave was like 5’ tall in some sections lol! Our lake has been eroding LONG before surf boats were ever a thing. The more open areas on the lake where wind is constant and stronger fair far worse erosion because it stays choppy and waves stacked up. Only thing we can do I be mindful about our waves and be respectful about peoples property, which we always do. Don’t even get me started on bass boats ripping 70+ mph cutting corners around bends and the crap they do to endanger people for a fish.


https://youtu.be/hYdvSZm4hkU

[HFarr]

My Moomba could probably surf on that wave![emoji28]

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[russellsmojo]

One part of the study I agree with is the distance from shore and impact. We tube, wakeboard, and surf so I get all the wave differences. The surfers on my lake are some of the worst running up and down a shoreline when the middle of the lake is just fine. A surf session does not need perfect water just like tubing does not either. Yet all damn weekend the surfers run up and down the shore. These debates could probably be shut down with more courtesy and common sense from boaters. The big cruisers have the same impact but they don’t seem to be consumed with making laps up and down the shoreline.


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[mgswake]

The big cruisers have the same impact but they don’t seem to be consumed with making laps up and down the shoreline.




I think that is probably one of the biggest perceived differences by the folks who are upset. The cruisers and large boats shoot by a couple times, while a wake/surf boat gets on a line and goes back and forth for a significant amount of time, possibly hours. And, there may be a few boats running the line. That's just me spitballing, I haven't talked to anyone but memories are short. One passes versus multiple and which ones do you think property owners remember? Also, the loud stereos and sometimes obscene music like Sandm mentions could be other factors as well.

[SSurfer321]

I agree that this could be mitigated with (un)common sense from boaters.

But I agree that surfers should be closer to the shoreline due to their lower speeds, but the surf wake should be opposite the side of boat closest to shore.

[larry_arizona]

One lake we surf has one surf groove, it’s centered on the lake and 300 feet from shore.

Wake really only rocks one dock and he has a wake boat on a hoist.

The other lake we constantly move and don’t grind just one part of the lake.

The 3rd lake we only surf the direction that throws the wake to the unihabited side of the lake.

I don’t get any complaints from homeowners, only fishermen.

Only time we rock out the music is in the party cove and we try to at least ask others what to play, by all means we will shut ours off and let someone else play DJ

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[Zog]

The worst wave experience I have ever had was from two cruisers coming out of a canyon at Lake Powell while I was attempting to dock at a floating bathroom. The waves were over 5' tall in rapid succession and my boat was almost sucked under the deck of the bathroom, which would have completely smashed it.

That said, I see the perspective of those who are upset about the wakes from surf boats. When you are on a houseboat for a week inside of a canyon, it is really annoying when surf boats come by 100 ft off the back of your boat directing big waves at you all day, causing a scramble to keep things from falling over. There needs to be more discussions about courteous/lawful boating in the surf market as well, since a) Utah law says you have to maintain 150 ft. distance from other boats when running greater than wakeless speed and b) you are responsible for any damage caused by your wake. I don't think this is well understood by many boat owners and the number of new boat owners that pilot their boats like cars is really problematic.

I can see the need for some common sense regulation on where wake/surf boats can run, but this also needs to be well communicated to the new boaters.

[HFarr]

The worst wave experience I have ever had was from two cruisers coming out of a canyon at Lake Powell while I was attempting to dock at a floating bathroom. The waves were over 5' tall in rapid succession and my boat was almost sucked under the deck of the bathroom, which would have completely smashed it.

That said, I see the perspective of those who are upset about the wakes from surf boats. When you are on a houseboat for a week inside of a canyon, it is really annoying when surf boats come by 100 ft off the back of your boat directing big waves at you all day, causing a scramble to keep things from falling over. There needs to be more discussions about courteous/lawful boating in the surf market as well, since a) Utah law says you have to maintain 150 ft. distance from other boats when running greater than wakeless speed and b) you are responsible for any damage caused by your wake. I don't think this is well understood by many boat owners and the number of new boat owners that pilot their boats like cars is really problematic.

I can see the need for some common sense regulation on where wake/surf boats can run, but this also needs to be well communicated to the new boaters.Couldn't agree more. Just trying to put yourself in the other guys position and thinking about how you would like the wave, or the speed/proximity or sound of what they are doing is all you have to do. It's pretty easy to spot the people who just don't give a crap. On the lake we use, the other surf boats are usually the most courteous. And we,they, generally try to find spots away from most people to surf.

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[Josh828]

I probably end up surfing closer to shore and in large coves more often than the middle of the lake.

I always feel terrible when a family on a pontoon boat is trying to just cross to the other side of the lake and ends up looking like the titanic trying to get around me

[cucv]

NH did a study on wakeboats. I tried to follow the progress and had planned to go comment at the public hearing but Covid killed the last 2 meeting. The final report is interesting and highlights the importance of education boaters.
An interesting point not captured in the final report but discussed when conducting the study was that most officially filed complaints were about the loud stereos on wake boats.
I try to stay 300+ feet from shore and out of smaller bays.

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[larry_arizona]

Wakeboats = Harley’s on the Water

Lol


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[SONIC]

I probably end up surfing closer to shore and in large coves more often than the middle of the lake.

I always feel terrible when a family on a pontoon boat is trying to just cross to the other side of the lake and ends up looking like the titanic trying to get around me

Agreed, we surf in coves without docks, not out in the middle of the lake.
I get that this causes more erosion but I think it also keeps people happy. If you're surfing down the channel and a bass boat comes through at 60 mph and launches off your wake and about kills everyone onboard it's not good for anyone. Not to mention the increased danger to a fallen rider out in the middle of the lake.
Our lakeshores around here are already eroded down to bedrock anyway so a wave isn't doing any damage.

[larry_arizona]

I will say that reservoir lakes like Tennessee have so much dockfree shore line, we had no problems finding a surf spot that didn’t mess with anyone.

300-500 acre inland lakes, you are sometimes limited to deep enough water for a surf groove.


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[cucv]

I guess I haven't been paying enough attention to Wakesurf regulation in my state lately. NH has a hearing today on HB1071 which proposes 250 ft distance from shore, other boats and docks when wakesurfing. I submitted a letter of opposition this morning as there is a conflict with wakesurf boats having a safe passage distance of 250 ft and a non-wakesurf boat has a safe passage distance of 150 ft to each other. The non-wakesurf boat can come from the stern of the wakesurf boat with 150-250ft and cause a violation on behalf of the wakesurf boat while not incurring a violation themselves.

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[Josh828]

I guess I haven't been paying enough attention to Wakesurf regulation in my state lately. NH has a hearing today on HB1071 which proposes 250 ft distance from shore, other boats and docks when wakesurfing. I submitted a letter of opposition this morning as there is a conflict with wakesurf boats having a safe passage distance of 250 ft and a non-wakesurf boat has a safe passage distance of 150 ft to each other. The non-wakesurf boat can come from the stern of the wakesurf boat with 150-250ft and cause a violation on behalf of the wakesurf boat while not incurring a violation themselves.

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In this situation of a boat coming closer to overtake you are the "stand on vessel" so you remain your course.

I would guess other boats should know when you are wake surfing and they would have to stay 250' from you as well or get ticketed. Another law not well thought out imo

[mgswake]

. Another law not well thought out imo

In the words of Joey Callo "There's an F...ing surprise!"

I sure hope someone gets the reference. But seriously, it seems so many laws these days are not well thought out and not just one sided, short sighted, and/or knee jerk reactions.

[cucv]

An interesting thing I'm seeing is that there are folks originally pushing for this proposed law now sending letters of opposition in the wake of the Minnesota report now stating they want a 500 ft safe passage distance.

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[SONIC]

I wish they would just make a law saying "don't be an asshole in your boat"
And give the enforcing agency (TWRA in our case) the ability to write a ticket for "being an asshole"
99% of peoples complaints would be covered.

You send a surf wake into a family that's swimming behind their boat? Asshole
You go by someone's dock 50 ft out surfing? Asshole
You blast your music at 100% volume at 8am while surfing in a cove full of houses? Asshole

[rhouse181]

I wish they would just make a law saying "don't be an asshole in your boat"
And give the enforcing agency (TWRA in our case) the ability to write a ticket for "being an asshole"
99% of peoples complaints would be covered.

You send a surf wake into a family that's swimming behind their boat? Asshole
You go by someone's dock 50 ft out surfing? Asshole
You blast your music at 100% volume at 8am while surfing in a cove full of houses? Asshole

I feel like this list warrants further elaboration...

[MJHSupra]

I wish they would just make a law saying "don't be an asshole in your boat"
And give the enforcing agency (TWRA in our case) the ability to write a ticket for "being an asshole"
99% of peoples complaints would be covered.

You send a surf wake into a family that's swimming behind their boat? Asshole
You go by someone's dock 50 ft out surfing? Asshole
You blast your music at 100% volume at 8am while surfing in a cove full of houses? Asshole

Not a fan of the TWRA and their random pull-overs on Friday nights to check me. Happens multiple times per summer. Usually just occupying 20-30 mins of my time to run checks and look at my eyes and actions to see if I've been drinking.

Or they follow me around when it starts getting dark. After we are done surfing or wakeboarding on Fridays. Following me back to the boat ramp.

Fought them on a ticket (won in court) when they wrote me up a few summers ago. Said I got too close to them when they had another boat pulled over and I was idling by. He caught up to me 15 mins later. I was polite during the episode, but the dude was such a d-head, rude, just wanted to lecture me. That was the observation from others on my boat.

F- them.

[HFarr]

I wish they would just make a law saying "don't be an asshole in your boat"
And give the enforcing agency (TWRA in our case) the ability to write a ticket for "being an asshole"
99% of peoples complaints would be covered.

You send a surf wake into a family that's swimming behind their boat? Asshole
You go by someone's dock 50 ft out surfing? Asshole
You blast your music at 100% volume at 8am while surfing in a cove full of houses? AssholeSonic I agree with rhouse181. To steal from Jeff Foxworthy's You might be a redneck idea, you need to put those items in a list and make a shirt that says " You might be an Asshole if:" and put them under it. I'd buy one! [emoji16]

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[larry_arizona]

In Tennessee are you not allowed to drink while operating a boat?

Michigan you can drive a boat with drink in hand as long as you are under .08 bac.


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[2in2out]

Sonic I agree with rhouse181. To steal from Jeff Foxworthy's You might be a redneck idea, you need to put those items in a list and make a shirt that says " You might be an Asshole if:" and put them under it. I'd buy one! [emoji16]

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I’ve got plenty of input….


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[Mxmark4]

I wish they would just make a law saying "don't be an asshole in your boat"
And give the enforcing agency (TWRA in our case) the ability to write a ticket for "being an asshole"
99% of peoples complaints would be covered.

You send a surf wake into a family that's swimming behind their boat? Asshole
You go by someone's dock 50 ft out surfing? Asshole
You blast your music at 100% volume at 8am while surfing in a cove full of houses? Asshole

Yep on that. My mondo has 6 deep scratches in the starboard side from my buddies SE rubrail thank to a drive by surfing about 50 feet off our bow as the kids were swimming. 10 inch bumpers and us trying to hold the boats apart couldnt stop the damage done by those waves. Twra wouldnt enforce that but you bet they will harass ya all day about where you are goin and how much you have been drinkin. Never had any negative interactions with Twra but still dont like dwaling with people who can ruin my day.

[SONIC]

In Tennessee are you not allowed to drink while operating a boat?

Michigan you can drive a boat with drink in hand as long as you are under .08 bac.


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Same here (TN), our laws say you can't operate under the influence (.08 or higher) but there's no open container law for boats so nothing wrong with having one.

[SONIC]

Not a fan of the TWRA and their random pull-overs on Friday nights to check me. Happens multiple times per summer. Usually just occupying 20-30 mins of my time to run checks and look at my eyes and actions to see if I've been drinking.

Or they follow me around when it starts getting dark. After we are done surfing or wakeboarding on Fridays. Following me back to the boat ramp.

Fought them on a ticket (won in court) when they wrote me up a few summers ago. Said I got too close to them when they had another boat pulled over and I was idling by. He caught up to me 15 mins later. I was polite during the episode, but the dude was such a d-head, rude, just wanted to lecture me. That was the observation from others on my boat.

F- them.

Yep, like all law enforcement it totally depends on the person wearing the badge. They hassled me hard the first season we had the supra on our small(ish, 3000 acres) lake. Pulled me over literally every time we went out, no tickets and they were always professional but just trying their best to give me a ticket for something. I was always super nice and friendly and they eventually stopped bothering me for the most part.

Sucks when you get the asshole who just wants to be powerful. I don't break any laws other than ones I'm happy to pay the fine for (an adult sitting on the sundeck at idle in a no wake zone, if they ant to write me a ticket for that they can have at it and I've told them so on several occasions) so I don't worry about it much.
We have a standing rule in the boat that when we get pulled over no one talks but me and it usually goes smoothly.

I grew up boating on the coast and have been pulled by the coast guard countless times so it's always fun when you get pulled to have everything 100% ready to go, life jackets out, fire extinguisher out, whistle and horn in hand, registration in hand, throw cushion ready to go, bumpers out etc. Throws them off a bit when they pull up and see that you clearly know what you're doing.

[larry_arizona]

I have the opposite problem, I can’t tell you the last time I saw a lake cop. The lack of water popo especially with the amount of new boaters on the lakes causes a degree of chaos.

I lost count of how many times a boat is going in the wrong direction, jet skis jumping boat wakes (with and without riders in tow), boats on plane in no wake zones to name a few.


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[Josh828]

If the "don't be an asshole" Law passed unfortunately there wouldn't be any lake cops left in my area haha

A small western TN lake I started going to last year has been so quite I haven't seen a single cop all last season however
Plus the fact in NC you can't have liquor really makes TN even better

[Bigs28]

I lost count of how many times a boat is going in the wrong direction

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Clearly they were going in the right direction. You just don't know where they were going.

[HFarr]

In GA you can have open containers and driver can have a drink too. Just cannot be over the .08 limit.

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[HFarr]

Clearly they were going in the right direction. You just don't know where they were going.As David Coverdale summed it up....I don't always know where I'm going, but I sure know where I've been!

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[larry_arizona]

Clearly they were going in the right direction. You just don't know where they were going.

On an inland lake in Michigan, counterclockwise is the correct direction.


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[2in2out]

A coworker of mine (Greg) had just bought a used boat and had planned a 26 day camping trip with his family at the lake we usually go to.

We arrived and set up our camp that afternoon not far from them. There were five other coworker and their families camped out, so we grabbed some cocktails and went to make the rounds.

Through the grapevine we found out that Greg and his family had been out in their boat earlier in the day. They were in a cove all except his daughter in the water swimming. No other boats around, except the county mounty which headed their way immediately after launching the patrol boat.

Upon approach, the deputy receiving boat patrol training, whiskey throttles into Greg’s boat nearly hitting his daughter and crushing the hull of Greg’s boat and swamping it.

The reason for the encounter…Greg did not have his flag up indicating swimmers in the water.

Greg had been at the sheriffs office filing a claim when we arrived. He said the sheriff was wholly apologetic and said that the county would make everything right. Greg was out of his boat that whole summer. We took his family out on our boat, and rotated families joining us and another family with their boat for the four days we were there.

The Deputies were not seen on any lake in that county the rest of the season. Unfortunately that caused a resurgence of lake lice.


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[SONIC]

A coworker of mine (Greg) had just bought a used boat and had planned a 26 day camping trip with his family at the lake we usually go to.

We arrived and set up our camp that afternoon not far from them. There were five other coworker and their families camped out, so we grabbed some cocktails and went to make the rounds.

Through the grapevine we found out that Greg and his family had been out in their boat earlier in the day. They were in a cove all except his daughter in the water swimming. No other boats around, except the county mounty which headed their way immediately after launching the patrol boat.

Upon approach, the deputy receiving boat patrol training, whiskey throttles into Greg’s boat nearly hitting his daughter and crushing the hull of Greg’s boat and swamping it.

The reason for the encounter…Greg did not have his flag up indicating swimmers in the water.

Greg had been at the sheriffs office filing a claim when we arrived. He said the sheriff was wholly apologetic and said that the county would make everything right. Greg was out of his boat that whole summer. We took his family out on our boat, and rotated families joining us and another family with their boat for the four days we were there.

The Deputies were not seen on any lake in that county the rest of the season. Unfortunately that caused a resurgence of lake lice.


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Uy that makes me cringe.
I always throw out bumpers and catch their boat when they pull up to me and they act like I'm insane.
"stay where you are we'll come to you" Yeah I know you will but I don't trust you not to slam your shitty patrol boat into my nice boat

[larry_arizona]

A coworker of mine (Greg) had just bought a used boat and had planned a 26 day camping trip with his family at the lake we usually go to.

We arrived and set up our camp that afternoon not far from them. There were five other coworker and their families camped out, so we grabbed some cocktails and went to make the rounds.

Through the grapevine we found out that Greg and his family had been out in their boat earlier in the day. They were in a cove all except his daughter in the water swimming. No other boats around, except the county mounty which headed their way immediately after launching the patrol boat.

Upon approach, the deputy receiving boat patrol training, whiskey throttles into Greg’s boat nearly hitting his daughter and crushing the hull of Greg’s boat and swamping it.

The reason for the encounter…Greg did not have his flag up indicating swimmers in the water.

Greg had been at the sheriffs office filing a claim when we arrived. He said the sheriff was wholly apologetic and said that the county would make everything right. Greg was out of his boat that whole summer. We took his family out on our boat, and rotated families joining us and another family with their boat for the four days we were there.

The Deputies were not seen on any lake in that county the rest of the season. Unfortunately that caused a resurgence of lake lice.


Making my new SA build come true!!!

Pics or it didn’t happen……lol


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[sandm]

been boarded a few times. biggest thing that pisses me off.... their combat boots climbing all over the interior. and none of them giving 2 $hits about it...

$315 misdemeanor ticket for riding on the transom at mead 2 years ago from a bachelor party participant... water cop thought they would get me for drinking as out west you can't have drinks within arms reach of the driver. pulled a nice diet dr pepper out of my moomba coozie and the look on his face was priceless.. the other 7 bachelor party guys were lit...

[Zog]

You are all making me feel good about the Utah cops. Very hands off (a little too hands off sometimes). The couple times we have interacted with them, they simply pulled along side us, asked us to show them various pieces of equipment (jackets, paddle, bailing bucket, etc.), proof of insurance and registration, and demonstrate our horn. They didn't board our boat, didn't tie up to our boat, and were very easy to deal with. We got a warning once from them about someone sitting on the transom while underway, but no ticket.

[larry_arizona]

Curious why officers would feel the need to board your boat?

Anything they would be looking for, you should be able to show them.


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[sandm]

Curious why officers would feel the need to board your boat?

Anything they would be looking for, you should be able to show them.


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both times we were boarded they wanted to be close enough to detect smell of alcohol I believe. 3rd time they never boarded and 4th time it was at a dock at a remote campsite.
they were horrible in green bay. they sit at the mouth of the bay and stop random boats coming back from the party sandbar. stopped there 2x.

[russellsmojo]

As I sit and watch random slow flurries in Texas I would love to be getting stopped by lake patrol right now [emoji3]


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[SONIC]

As I sit and watch random slow flurries in Texas I would love to be getting stopped by lake patrol right now [emoji3]


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Man isn't that the truth!