No power

[tarasstjean]

I have a 2017 Supra SA 450. Our dealer diagnosed a faulty fuel pump and so we had it changed. Upon return I still can't reach surf speed and I've tried 6 different props. Currently running an ACME 2775 15x12.5. Should be tons of prop. Question, what else do I start looking at? Faulty ECU, spark plugs coils? I'm fairly mechanically inclined but I just need some new thoughts.

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

[HFarr]

What suggestions did the dealer have about that? What year is it?

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[HFarr]

What suggestions did the dealer have about that? What year is it?

Sent from my moto z4 using TapatalkDuh, nevermind I am blind. I see you said 2017. Have you ever had plugs changed?

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[HFarr]

12.5 is a super low pitch. What rpm are you running when trying to hit surf speed?

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[tarasstjean]

235 hours but I don't know if they've been changed. I thought about that. It wouldn't hurt to do it that's for sure.

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

[tarasstjean]

I can't hit surf speed. I can get close it I fully deploy the center tab. RPMs are higher than I thought they should be. It would be really close to 4000 rpm at 11.0 mph. I've tried ACME 2247, OJ 950, OJ V4 1919, ACME 1235. it seems that now they've changed the fuel pump it's running harder and higher RPM. I just can't figure it out.

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

[HFarr]

I would change plugs as my first choice. I have a 400 with a 15.5 x 15 pitch on a Malai. With 4k of full ballast plus 8 people I can easily hit surf speeds of 11.2 at 3200-3250 rpm. The 450 should have no trouble at all if running right.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

[larry_arizona]

OP how much ballast and Human weight are you running?

Also what elevation are you at?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tarasstjean]

I'm in central Alberta at 2100 to 2300ft. Full ballast is 3500lbs and we had 4 adults and 6 kids in the boat. I tried a couple 14 pitch props and there's no way I'm getting close to surf speed. There's and issue here for sure. Does anyone know how to check the Catalytics converters? I bore scoped on top but that wouldn't show any issues. Does the bottom clamp need to be pulled to inspect the upstream Cats?

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

[larry_arizona]

Rough total weight of 4 adults and 6 kids?

Where are they sitting in boat? Any lead?

Elevation is hurting a little bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[2in2out]

With your fuel pump having gone out, I think a quick replacement of fuel filter and a pressure check on the fuel rails. Maybe, injector issues.


Currently boatless

[tarasstjean]

Probably 700 lbs of adults and 600 lbs of kids. 300 lbs lead in port rear locker and 200 in starboard locker. 100% fill in both rear bags and 70% up front. Little kids were in the bow then came back to the main sitting area. The 12.5" prop is a stump puller and a 450 raptor pushing it should have no issues IMO

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

[2in2out]

I would add plugs and compression check, air intake and vacuum check.

After all of that, since you aren’t getting any sensor faults, I wouldn’t worry about CAT failure and start looking at friction in the drive train. Impinging shaft seal/bearing, tranny bearings/gears etc.

I think someone in the forum recently had to replace their trans in a pre-19 SA/SL and got the 1:1.76 installed.


Currently boatless

[larry_arizona]

Probably 700 lbs of adults and 600 lbs of kids. 300 lbs lead in port rear locker and 200 in starboard locker. 100% fill in both rear bags and 70% up front. Little kids were in the bow then came back to the main sitting area. The 12.5" prop is a stump puller and a 450 raptor pushing it should have no issues IMO

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

I had an 18SA running that 2775 prop with a 400, for reference the 400 and 440 are only 23 ft lbs difference.

You are at appx 1800# of added ballast and probably closer to 2000# if you got a cooler, bags, anchor etc.

Boat is 5300
Ballast is 3200 in a 17?
Added ballast and gear 2000
And at 2200 elevation is robbing some power

Boat is at 10500 and I think your boat is max rated at around 11000.

If you have pulled this weight no problem before, then disregard.

But a couple things to consider.

My 18 required some added bow weight to be happy (150#) and 350# mid ship, none in rear lockers.

My guess is move some weight to bow and your stern may be too far slammed. What is your pitch at when not getting to surf speed?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk loo

[larry_arizona]

At 2200 feet, you are down appx 6.6% power as compared to sea level.

Plus you will be down more if you factor in actual density altitude.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[2in2out]

At <2500 ft, you’re less likely to experience any meaningful cavitation losses, even at higher RPM.

Are you using Marina fuel, or are you fueling on a land based station? You may be getting less performance from fuel contamination, but I’d think that you’d have more noticeable signals from engine sounds.


Currently boatless

[tarasstjean]

Looking into this a bit more I pulled the starboard Cat yesterday and it's clean. I then replaced the fuel filter to make sure. Once on the water I filled to 100% both rear lockers and about 65% in the front. I have an additional 500 lbs of lead right in the rear and 1500lbs of passengers. I just noticed that the rear plug and plays are 750's so I don't know how much weight above stock that is. Any info appreciated. Anyway, dropped rear ballasts to 60% yesterday and everything seemed fine. Has anyone loaded their boat this way without power problems? Could be chasing my tail here. Also put 40 gallons of 91 fuel as 87 was in there before. I'll continue from here with Boostane to ensure 89 octane.

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

[larry_arizona]

Just to clarify,

You have pulled full ballast, plus your lead plus your crew before no problem at surf speed at the elevation you are at?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tarasstjean]

I have never yet pulled full ballast with people at this elevation and been successful at this elevation. I'm suspecting that full ballasts is just too much even with a 15x12.5 prop. I texted the previous owner and it sounds like at full ballasts with a couple people in the boat he may have had the same issue. It would be nice if another SA owner could validate the same issue with the 750lb plug and plays in the rear locker. I might be chasing a rainbow here. Not sure. Could be there's nothing wrong.

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

[2in2out]

I have never yet pulled full ballast with people at this elevation and been successful at this elevation. I'm suspecting that full ballasts is just too much even with a 15x12.5 prop. I texted the previous owner and it sounds like at full ballasts with a couple people in the boat he may have had the same issue. It would be nice if another SA owner could validate the same issue with the 750lb plug and plays in the rear locker. I might be chasing a rainbow here. Not sure. Could be there's nothing wrong.

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

Are the PNP on top of stock ballast, or did they replace stock ballast?

Stock ballast on the 17 was 3200??? (60/100/100)
PNP 1500
Lead 500
Crew 1200
= 6400
+ 6200 boat weight
Is 12600
Capacity is 11000
1400 over label weight

Is this correct?


Currently boatless

[tarasstjean]

I've been trying to nail down what stock ballast was in 2017. 3200lbs listed but no idea what the stock plug and play was. The previous owner said he didn't upgrade the rear locker bags, it came with the 750's apparently. The dealers coming out to take a spin on the boat tomorrow. Hopefully hes got some answers. The dry weight spec is 5300lbs on the boat, 6200 wet probably not far off.

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

[KnoxMojo]

I have a 400 with a 15.5 x 15 pitch on a Malai. With 4k of full ballast plus 8 people I can easily hit surf speeds of 11.2 at 3200-3250 rpm. The 450 should have no trouble at all if running right.

Sent from my moto z4 using Tapatalk

Not apples to apples, you have the newer 1.76 transmission, he has the 1.5.

[KnoxMojo]

I've been trying to nail down what stock ballast was in 2017. 3200lbs listed but no idea what the stock plug and play was. The previous owner said he didn't upgrade the rear locker bags, it came with the 750's apparently. The dealers coming out to take a spin on the boat tomorrow. Hopefully hes got some answers. The dry weight spec is 5300lbs on the boat, 6200 wet probably not far off.

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

3200 is correct, there are 250 pound hard tanks in the rear with soft bags on top. Center 500 pound tank with 700 pound bow bag. Not sure you really have any issues. I have an 18 SA with a 15x12.5 prop as well. No way I am getting to speed running full send plus 1500 pounds of people. And it isn't needed either. Your surf wave and wakeboard wake will be plenty huge running bow weight and a little ballast in the rear. I am the one getting the 1.76 V drive under warranty.

[larry_arizona]

Your rear bags should fill the rear lockers when full and stop before the opening of your two side seats where the cooler goes.

I suspected you just can’t pull that weight at that elevation with the 440 raptor.

You could drop a 1.76 transmission in it and pull that weight and a lot more. Huge upgrade over the 1.5.

Also if you were originally running 87 octane, you were losing a little more engine power.

It all adds up.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KnoxMojo]

Your rear bags should fill the rear lockers when full and stop before the opening of your two side seats where the cooler goes.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

His rear bags don't fill to the top of the locker like your and mine 18. He has 750 rear bags, we have\had 900s.

Regardless, he is running way too much weight.

[tarasstjean]

Thanks guys. This is all making way more sense now. I do find it odd that I can overweight it with factory ballasts. But as you both mentioned, half ballast and the wave was beautiful. I am looking for a 19 SA so we'll see where that goes. Thanks again, that's the info I needed.

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

[larry_arizona]

I think it’s a bunch of little things that stacked against you.

1) elevation power loss
2) running 87 octane
3)your stern too heavily loaded
4)losing bow ballast, sinking stern even deeper.

1300# of crew and 500# of lead should work in a 17SA, but I would redistribute that lead mid ship and in bow to help get that stern up.

Turn autowake off too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[2in2out]

I think it’s a bunch of little things that stacked against you.

1) elevation power loss
2) running 87 octane
3)your stern too heavily loaded
4)losing bow ballast, sinking stern even deeper.

1300# of crew and 500# of lead should work in a 17SA, but I would redistribute that lead mid ship and in bow to help get that stern up.

Turn autowake off too.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

3 and 4 in this list also triggered me to ask what your pitch is. If you’re over 10 degrees performance is going to be impacted because the prop is now attempting to push the boat out of the water instead of through the water. The prop will also be in the cavitation zone between the hull and the pile of water aerated by the laminar flow disruption.


Currently boatless

[tarasstjean]

So the dealer came out yesterday. There were 3 200 lb guys in the boat. I had moved my lead to mid ship as you mentioned and the change he made was the crossover setting from 50 to 80 on the center tab. It's working great now. As you all mentioned, I believe it was toom much in the stern but with the weight moved midship and the plate crossover things seem to be coming around. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210728/3f22c903c02f383169f4088e6ca9a411.jpg

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

[larry_arizona]

So the dealer came out yesterday. There were 3 200 lb guys in the boat. I had moved my lead to mid ship as you mentioned and the change he made was the crossover setting from 50 to 80 on the center tab. It's working great now. As you all mentioned, I believe it was toom much in the stern but with the weight moved midship and the plate crossover things seem to be coming around. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210728/3f22c903c02f383169f4088e6ca9a411.jpg

Sent from my SM-N9860 using Tapatalk

Glad it’s working now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk