Replacing coolant/ ECT code

[eder10986]

Hey all. So I’ve had a code come up recently that some of you are familiar with

ECT higher than expected stage 1 and then stage 2

Engine temps did rise a bit but after driving at around 1k rpms temps settled down.

I recently replaced the impeller so I’m going to check on that

Just cleared the sea strainer and will check the actual water intake on bottom of hull

No leaks in bilge or engine bay so that’s at least a good sign

Besides what I listed above I’m thinking I might be low in coolant or might have a slow leak somewhere. This boat was purchased as a consignment boat in amazing condition but perhaps the dealer missed something or didn’t replace the coolant prior to delivery? (I know indmar suggests every 2 years. Boat was shipped from TX to NC).

Any help would be appreciated. I would hate to have to take to dealer in the middle of summer.


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[eder10986]

Forgot my main question….where is the coolant tank to check level. I’m still learning my way around this engine. Thanks!


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[KnoxMojo]

Forgot my main question….where is the coolant tank to check level. I’m still learning my way around this engine. Thanks!


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Go to Indmar and download your engine owners manual. The coolant fill tank is to the left of the engine, you really can't miss it if you look.

[KnoxMojo]

Also, if it has heaters, check the pump. Dealer wouldn't just change the coolant unless the seller wanted to pay to have it done. It is every 300 hours in the manual, it breaks down when all services are needed.

[larry_arizona]

If you have the heater option, check the hose clamps as they are frequently loose from the factory and can slowly leak.


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[eder10986]

Got the manual.

We do have a Heater so I’ll check those connections.

Purchased the boat with 328 hours so you’re probably right.


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[BigOrange]

If you have the heater option, check the hose clamps as they are frequently loose from the factory and can slowly leak.


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Larry, I’m fighting a similar issue. Are you talking at the heat exchanger connection on the engine or at the heater itself under the Bench seat? I assume at the engine?


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[KnoxMojo]

Larry, I’m fighting a similar issue. Are you talking at the heat exchanger connection on the engine or at the heater itself under the Bench seat? I assume at the engine?


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There's a recirculation pump for the heater, on your boat, should be under the transmission hatch and to the right, could also be at the blower under the seat, just follow the lines.

[Swervy]

I had this same issue last summer. The coolant reservoir is right at the top of the engine on your left hand side if you are facing the stern. I had to refill after every couple of hours of run time. We had it into the dealer and they couldn’t find the problem the first time. I couldn’t find a leak as well, but the problem continued and we had to refill every few hours of engine run time. We brought it back to the dealer and they were able to find the issue. I’ll try to search my service records when I get back to home base to see what the exact problem was, but I know it was something to do with the heaters.

[eder10986]

I had this same issue last summer. The coolant reservoir is right at the top of the engine on your left hand side if you are facing the stern. I had to refill after every couple of hours of run time. We had it into the dealer and they couldn’t find the problem the first time. I couldn’t find a leak as well, but the problem continued and we had to refill every few hours of engine run time. We brought it back to the dealer and they were able to find the issue. I’ll try to search my service records when I get back to home base to see what the exact problem was, but I know it was something to do with the heaters.

That would be great if you could! I haven’t had the chance to check yet myself. Will be today or tomorrow.


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[eder10986]

Welp….gotta find the leak huh?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210724/cef1796f93331be7e69901caaed62d86.jpg


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[eder10986]

I’ve tightened hoses at heater pump and the ones that come off the engine (name??).

Now I want to make sure that hoses are tight at the actual heater but not sure how the hell to get in there.

Any guidance would be marvelous. Thanks!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210724/085a23e5f95d2176f28b21717990f62f.jpg


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[eder10986]

Last few things hoping y’all don’t mind…

I’ve ordered an otiker tool and clamps just in case I need to tighten more of the indmar clamps.

Do I HAVE to use indmar coolant? I see peak Sierra and prestone low tox too. They are already pre diluted. If I can use those I assume I don’t have to dilute further since indmar calls for 50/50

Lastly, to replace coolant do y’all think I have to bleed the system or can I refill at the reservoir low fill line, run to temp, then top off?

I’m referencing this (below) but I’m not 100% sure where all these lines are and if I have to do this entire procedure

https://www.indmardealersupport.com/news-letter.php


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[larry_arizona]

Sierra and low tox work

Any propylene glycol.

Just avoid ethylene glycol

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[eder10986]

Sierra and low tox work

Any propylene glycol.

Just avoid ethylene glycol

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Perfect I’ll pick some up tomorrow.

Think I need to bleed the system or top off?


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[larry_arizona]

Top it off


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[eder10986]

I got more propylene glycol. Topped off to “max” line (barely needed any, which was surprising).

I did mix it 50/50 with distilled water prior.

Ran engine on driveway. Temp reached 160F. Is that normal at idle? Seems a tad high.

Shut engine off since I can’t figure out why I can’t disengage my transmission and can’t increase rpms (yes I’ve pulled out console out and all connections are good).

After I shut engine off, coolant dropped below min, which is expected. I’ll let it cool and top off again. I did place a rag in cap and slightly opened it carefully and it was hissing which is good.

Oil was solid. Not milky or anything at all and at appropriate level.

Sea strainer clean.

Only thing I didn’t check because I ran out of time is the impeller but I replaced it two months prior so I’m hoping it’s still good.

I did run engine diagnostics and codes kept coming up when requesting. My question is 1 - do they not clear for a while, or 2 - was the engine throwing those codes again?

I can’t see it being #2 since I didn’t get above 160.

Next thoughts are:

Top off coolant once more time. Continue trying to find leak.

Impeller could be shot (but interestingly I don’t think it’s the case since when my engine temp increased idling at low speeds cooled the engine off = increased impeller speed and water flow).

Could I have a bad thermostat?

Sorry for the long post no hope this helps some of you and I appreciate your help so very much and sorry for any typos as I’m on the boat sweating and finishing this up.


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[Holdmybeer]

Not sure about the rest....
160*F is normal. 160* thermostat is standard

[eder10986]

Not sure about the rest....
160*F is normal. 160* thermostat is standard

I thought as much but for some reason I was thinking people engines ran that temp whole surfin etc. And mine was idling at that time.


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[Holdmybeer]

I thought as much but for some reason I was thinking people engines ran that temp whole surfin etc. And mine was idling at that time.


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I run 152-155 cruising, boarding, skiing.

Pulling a tube or surfing 162-165.

Just keep checking it since you are having coolant issues. I will get junk in the paddlewheel and throw a SPN110 fault (low water flow) every now and then, but temp stays right in those ranges.

[eder10986]

I run 152-155 cruising, boarding, skiing.

Pulling a tube or surfing 162-165.

Just keep checking it since you are having coolant issues. I will get junk in the paddlewheel and throw a SPN110 fault (low water flow) every now and then, but temp stays right in those ranges.

Got it. Makes sense that at a hit higher RPMS more fresh water gets pumped and temp drops a bit.

Going to keep troubleshooting


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[Kxmoomba]

We had the codes, the dealer replaced the sensor. Fixed that issue, have / had the coolant leak as well. It is due to the heater leaking. The dealer can put a dye in the hull and detect if its from the pump. We had the dealer disconnect the heater for the time being.

[eder10986]

We had the codes, the dealer replaced the sensor. Fixed that issue, have / had the coolant leak as well. It is due to the heater leaking. The dealer can put a dye in the hull and detect if its from the pump. We had the dealer disconnect the heater for the time being.

Thanks! I’ll check. If engine temp stays ok and I keep loosing coolant I might just keep topping off until season is over if I can’t find the leak. I don’t want them to keep my boat for 2 months if not necessary.


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[Kxmoomba]

Thanks! I’ll check. If engine temp stays ok and I keep loosing coolant I might just keep topping off until season is over if I can’t find the leak. I don’t want them to keep my boat for 2 months if not necessary.


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That is exactly why we just bypassed it for the season.

[BigOrange]

Update. At the boat today looking for the coolant leak. As the forum pointed out coolant syrup on bottom of heater pump. Most of the witness was in dead bottom where an electrical module is. I tightened both the threaded fittings and the hose clamps. Will see what changes next time out. Question- with the wetness not seeming to come from the fittings, is the actual pump known to leak? Pics below for reference

[BigOrange]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210730/5ebf28d06d1948b16c384fd5e3eb7e98.jpg

[BigOrange]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210730/5fd37588449faf10f5bea866039a45d6.jpg

[Kxmoomba]

Update. At the boat today looking for the coolant leak. As the forum pointed out coolant syrup on bottom of heater pump. Most of the witness was in dead bottom where an electrical module is. I tightened both the threaded fittings and the hose clamps. Will see what changes next time out. Question- with the wetness not seeming to come from the fittings, is the actual pump known to leak? Pics below for reference

Yes its the actual pump and its know to fail. Ours did but we had trips planned and it was over 100 out so we just had to bypass the heater all together. The dealer will use die to trace and verify.

[BigOrange]

Yeah, later last weekend after tightening the clamps and fittings went out with a rag under the pump and it was soaked in coolant.

[eder10986]

I’m still out of town for another 10 days or so. I’ll update y’all once I get back if I’ve lost any more coolant or if the pump is leaking. I’m gonna place a rag underneath and run engine and heater and see what’s up.


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[JHCMondo]

https://www.indmardealersupport.com/news-letter.php

Just in case you needed this info.





I’m still out of town for another 10 days or so. I’ll update y’all once I get back if I’ve lost any more coolant or if the pump is leaking. I’m gonna place a rag underneath and run engine and heater and see what’s up.


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[larry_arizona]

https://www.indmardealersupport.com/news-letter.php

Just in case you needed this info.

Great info, thanks for this. I am assuming you just drain it into the hull and put a pan under the center hull drain, then flush hull with plenty of fresh water.


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[BigOrange]

Thanks for the Mx instructions. Does anyone have a recommendation on how to isolate the heater loop to exclude the leaking pump until the off season? Can the supply/return for the heater loop each be capped individually, or do they need to be tied together?

[JHCMondo]

Great info, thanks for this. I am assuming you just drain it into the hull and put a pan under the center hull drain, then flush hull with plenty of fresh water.


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That's exactly what I did. The whole thing was very easy to do. The only thing I screwed up was ordering twice as much coolant as I needed as it was concentrate.

[eder10986]

Alright. Finally home and able to keep working on this.

1 - impeller is perfect
2 - filled coolant again to max with engine cold
3 - ran engine on idle for ~20 minutes. Temp never went above 160.
4 - no leaks coming from heater pump that I could find, however, I did notice that it was not ever running, even when I turned heater on (should it feel like it’s running to the touch?)
5 - heater fan working but no warm air coming out
6 - no immediate leaks noticed at heater connection
7 - after ~ 20 mins coolant reservoir below min level again.

I’m at a loss….I REALLY don’t want this season to be over.

Any other ideas?


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[eder10986]

Could I have an internal leak? If so, why? And what’s worst case scenario?


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[larry_arizona]

Could I have an internal leak? If so, why? And what’s worst case scenario?


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An internal leak could be easily identified by checking plugs, but have never heard of a raptor getting a head gasket leak.

I also think you would get getting a misfire.


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[BigOrange]

Have you put enough in that you are losing it vice just the engine needing that much to get back to full after a prior loss? Although I know where my problem ended up being my thought process also went to the heat exchanger. That would be the only other place and you could lose some to the water side. I’m not sure which side would be higher pressure.

[eder10986]

An internal leak could be easily identified by checking plugs, but have never heard of a raptor getting a head gasket leak.

I also think you would get getting a misfire.


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Definitely no misfire. Running perfectly fine and idling like a champ


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[eder10986]

Have you put enough in that you are losing it vice just the engine needing that much to get back to full after a prior loss? Although I know where my problem ended up being my thought process also went to the heat exchanger. That would be the only other place and you could lose some to the water side. I’m not sure which side would be higher pressure.

When these issues began I noticed the reservoir empty so I topped it off 1x.

Ran engine (idle) on driveway up to 160deg. Reservoir went empty again.

Topped off reservoir again and ran up to 160 idling on driveway again.

Reservoir seemed to drop from max to min, which seems normal (for now) after ~20 mins but my heater isn’t blowing hot air, and the circulating heater pump may not be running.

I ordered a UV flashlight and will try to locate any other leaks with it in darker hours. Here’s to hoping!


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[Holdmybeer]

Is the factory system the same as the aftermarkets?

There is a coolant pump that is electric that runs heated liquid though a water to air heat exchanger that gives you heat, correct.
So, no heat = no coolant flow to heater box.
Added pump = more chances for leaks <--- I would check the pump

However, if the engine water pump is driving the whole system and there is not an inline heater pump, then I would be checking the lines from the engine to the heater box under the seat. Liquid would have to be bypassing the box or you have a giant air pocket in the system and the coolant is traveling least path of resistance, which is not the heater circuit.

Good news, the engine looks to be fine and is running at 160* and not misfiring.

[eder10986]

Good about the 160 making me feel much better about things.

My heater pump is exactly like the one in the picture above.

As of yesterday no heat again and I did have heat earlier this season. When I turn the heater on I don’t feel any movement or warmth on heater pump. Not sure if I should or not but I’m comparing it to a ballast pump perhaps.

If I have to get to heater core I’ll have to take a seat off. I’m hoping I can find the leak with a UV light.

I have read about an air bubble. If I do have an air bubble, how did it happen, and how can I fix the issue?


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[Holdmybeer]

160 is the thermostat setting for the engine. The smoke in your video is completely normal. I would not worry about the engine.

The heater pump not having movement or vibration means it is not working. I would look for a fuse or breaker under the helm. However, if you don't lose anymore coolant while it is not working then that answers the question about where it was going.

The pump should have vibration to it or even some slight noise (might be hard to hear over the heater fan). Something to check while waiting for your UV light.

[eder10986]

If it wasn’t raining it check on it. I’ll look for a blown fuse somewhere for the pump.


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[korey]

I am dealing with a very similar issue as you are. I'm loosing coolant at the rate of about 12oz per engine hour. This weekend I bypassed the heater (disconnected the hoses at the intake manifold of the engine and looped one into the other on the engine) and my coolant consumption stopped. I can't pinpoint a leak in the heater circuit, but coolant was showing up in my bilge before I bypassed the heater. I intend to pull the heater pump and inspect it next.

[eder10986]

I am dealing with a very similar issue as you are. I'm loosing coolant at the rate of about 12oz per engine hour. This weekend I bypassed the heater (disconnected the hoses at the intake manifold of the engine and looped one into the other on the engine) and my coolant consumption stopped. I can't pinpoint a leak in the heater circuit, but coolant was showing up in my bilge before I bypassed the heater. I intend to pull the heater pump and inspect it next.

Sent you a message brother!


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[BigOrange]

Same thing I just did this weekend. My approach was to limp through to fall with known leak in heater loop pump and top off as needed. But, a heavy wakeboard session and the boat had other thoughts. Plastic fitting on heater loop hose close to engine top failed (probably from getting too hot). Luckily, enough slack was still available to remove ~8 inch of hose and connect back to engine in order to get back to dock.

Air bubble is real - my theory is most likely exacerbated by hot engine. Took us about 5 or 6 attempts to get engine to finally “drink” new coolant added to surge tank.

Went to auto parts store and found decent choice of 5/8” molded heater hose that would “jumper” the engine heater loop supply/return and also plugged the now unused hoses to heater. Clipped wires on leaking heater pump to ensure it doesn’t run dry and will replace all this winter.

[eder10986]

Need more ideas fellas. Trailered 30miles to lake to test out for more leaks besides in driveway.

Reservoir was full before we left home and I checked once I put the boat in the water and before I cranked the engine the reservoir was empty.

There’s a faint taste of it in the bilge water (yes I tasted it, don’t judge) but it’s not just coolant in the bilge. I am lost now….

Essentially lost more coolant just driving.

Only thought I have is we were so low on coolant because of a slow leak I haven’t been able to isolate that with driving it set.

Who knows. So lost [emoji20]


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[Holdmybeer]

Driving to the lake worked out an air bubble allowing the radiator to "suck" in the reservoir liquid?

Where did water in the bilge come from to mix with the coolant? "I put the boat in the water and before I cranked the engine the reservoir was empty."

Worst case would be heat exchanger on motor. Coolant would be under higher pressure and push into heat exchanger and then dumped into the lake at the exhaust flange. But you lost coolant on a trailer so that doesn't make sense either.....:eek:

[2in2out]

A hole in the heat exchanger core with vibration and pressure changes could have put volume in the jacket, then it mixed with lake water when launching. I would have the heat exchanger core tested or replaced.

You still may have leaks at the heater pump and heat exchanger resulting in coolant in bilge.

I think it’s time to stop F’ing with it and get it in for warranty work, otherwise a catastrophic failure may occur.


Making my new SA build come true!!!

[KnoxMojo]

I agree with with 2in. You've gotten every single idea out there short of pulling and replacing parts peice by piece. The only other thing you could do is bypass the heater pump with hose barbs and hose to see if the issue goes away. You're spending more time chasing it down than if you had taken it to the dealer a couple weeks ago.

[eder10986]

I agree with all of you 100%…….

BUT! I found the fkkkkker.

Part of the issue has been that for some odd reason I cannot disengage the transmission so I can only run idle on the hose at home.

So we get to the lake today and all the above holds true.

I told my wife let’s just take it off the trailer and drive a bit to see if I can find the leak and keep an eye on engine temps (never rose above 180).

At any rate. I have noticed my heater pump hasn’t been running. My next step is to either replace it or look for why it’s not working.

So, after chasing ALL connections and ALL suggestions and possibilities, it’s the actual damn heater pump that’s leaking!

If I hadn’t driven at higher rpms today I wouldn’t have found it.

Now I’m just going to get a barb and bypass at the pump connection if I can’t get it running or a replacement ASAP.

I think this has been happening for a while since we haven’t used the heater in months and I’m REALLY low on coolant. After the bypass or fix I’m going to do continue to top off and will do a coolant exchange per protocol at end of season along with everything else.

I can’t thank y’all enough for helping me with this. If there a silver lining I hope some of you learned a few things from my troubles!

Thanks again!!

https://youtu.be/HJnOrbaaEWE


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[eder10986]

I agree with with 2in. You've gotten every single idea out there short of pulling and replacing parts peice by piece. The only other thing you could do is bypass the heater pump with hose barbs and hose to see if the issue goes away. You're spending more time chasing it down than if you had taken it to the dealer a couple weeks ago.

I’ve been out of town for 3 weeks [emoji23] but I hear ya!!!


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[SONIC]

Ha! And right on the the exhaust where it can evaporate too

[eder10986]

Ha! And right on the the exhaust where it can evaporate too

Exactly! No wonder I never had puddles!!!


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[KnoxMojo]

I’ve been out of town for 3 weeks [emoji23] but I hear ya!!!


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Go back and read comments 4 and 5 in this thread...hahaha! Glad you found it.

[HFarr]

Ouch! Hold him still while someone washes the salt out of the wound!

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[larry_arizona]

Ouch! Hold him still while someone washes the salt out of the wound!

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This is so minor compared to the guy on the Supra forum who blew up the #3 piston on his 2020 SL550 and Indmar rejected his warranty claim due to water found in fuel.

$25k-$40k to replace


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[eder10986]

You guys are killing me and a bunch of a$$holes! Hahahaha.

I appreciate the sarcasm, comedy, and above everything, all the help and support I received.


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[Holdmybeer]

You guys are killing me and a bunch of a$$holes! Hahahaha.

I appreciate the sarcasm, comedy, and above everything, all the help and support I received.


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There is a saying in manufacturing...."If they are not giving you a hard time then they do not like you!" Take it a compliment....LOL

Good to see you found it and can go back to enjoying the rest of the season. If warranty would cover it, get that done this winter.

[korey]

Reviving this... I had the same symptoms. Bypassed the heater for the end of summer and coolant loss went away so I could be fairly certain that it WAS somewhere in the heater. Get to dreaded winterization day yesterday and decide to clip the wires on the pump, pull it out, and have a closer look. There were obvious signs of dried coolant on the bottom of the heater pump. 100% the culprit, same as eder above. I decided to tear into the pump and see what I could see. They’re on backorder from what I can tell.

[[disclaimer]] Although I am a P.E. level Mechanical Engineer, with a couple of decades experience in industrial automation (including vast experience with pumps); I didn’t design this pump, and I had a beer in hand for this activity. I’m guessing at a few things and making a few more up. Following my advice could result in a voided warranty…

First some info. I hope some of this comes in handy for someone down the road. The pump is Heatercraft part number 4838-111-A65. That is a rebranded/private label Shurflo pump – Shurflo makes it exclusively for Heatercraft. The “A” in the part number says it’s for OEM applications. I believe the 4838 in the part number describes it’s temperature and fluid type specification, but not 100%. This pump has both thermal and pressure relief valves built in – as you’d want when running 200 degree engine coolant! I didn’t call my dealer, but heatercraft has a similar model (the part number does not match perfectly) for $150 – it is backordered. Bakes has another similar model, but it seems like its for a shower, NOT engine coolant.

Like I said, I took the pump apart and nearly instantly found 2 problems.

1)There was a sheared origin in the temperature relief valve (the widget on the bottom with the wires running to it.
2)The adjuster on the pressure relief valve (the other widget on the bottom with a little hex key adjuster) was adjusted all the way in, with he set screw now falling inside the housing.

I’m not too sure which one caused the leaking for me, but I fixed both for free (I had an oring kit to match the damaged ring). I wont REALLY know if it’s fixed until spring when I really get to run it, but I reassembled everything, got it up to temp on the hose and there was no fluid coming from the bottom of the pump!

I should have taken pictures, but I didn’t… beer. The pump is a diaphragm style pump with 4 pistons/diaphragms. The 12v motor turns an eccentric cam (I prefer to call it a wobbler) that moves water from the inlet to the outlet. The attached image is of a similar pump. Like I said above, my problem was likely in the relief valves, but I could also see problems occurring because the diaphragms are ruiptured (replace the main body, part 2 in the diagram), or a bad gasket between parts 2 and 4 (the gasket shows is NOT the same as the gasket on the pump on my boat).

Again, I hope my experience helps someone in the future.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211108/9c01385c7212aaebb4ccb424a001f2ce.jpg

[eder10986]

This is awesome I’ll have to check on mine.

My issue is also that I don’t actually think it’s running. At all. I do have to figure that out as well - I have two loose terminals hanging out that I haven’t figured out he’s they’re for although I don’t think they’re for the pump because I believe it used a harness?

I think I’m going to also take mine apart and see if I can figure o if wtf is up with mine.


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[parrothd]

This is awesome I’ll have to check on mine.

My issue is also that I don’t actually think it’s running. At all. I do have to figure that out as well - I have two loose terminals hanging out that I haven’t figured out he’s they’re for although I don’t think they’re for the pump because I believe it used a harness?

I think I’m going to also take mine apart and see if I can figure o if wtf is up with mine.


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The housing usually cracks and you can easily replace it.

SHURFLO 94-800-00 Model 4008 Complete Upper Housing https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00SQ4F4V2/ref=cm_sw_r_em_apa_glt_i_9JK0GJPQWVA0CR3WDGDH?_enc oding=UTF8&psc=1

[BigOrange]

So I’ve got my new heater loop pump installed and and ready to replace all coolant since I had mix of multiple fills and even water in mine due to the failures last summer. Two questions:

1) I read that pulling the ~2” Hose off block on lower starboard side is best way to drain. I’ve done that. Is there any further steps to take to get any remaining coolant out.

2) is there any tricks for filling to avoid air bubbles? I was thinking of raising the surge tank top (return) line off, holding it higher than all the engine and using a funnel to fill while the surge tank cap is off.

Thanks!

[BigOrange]

Bump to get back above the spam threads. Any thoughts? Thanks!

[parrothd]

Bump to get back above the spam threads. Any thoughts? Thanks!


Just add coolant to the resivior until it's full, then add more when needed.

[HFarr]

Yep, honestly that simple.

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[korey]

Yep, as others have said, there's nothing to it. I went a touch overboard and pulled the thermostat housing when draining to be more sure it drained completely. hat wasn't worth it, I wouldn't do that again.

I miss my boat. Snow showers forecasted Saturday morning here in KY...

[BigOrange]

Thanks everyone. Will get it filled and ready to run on the hose soon. Just have to wire up the new coolant pump.

The wx needs to warm up in a hurry. We are usually in the water in about 2 or 3 weeks from now but this year the trees are still barely budding.