2021 Supra SA Surf Settings, Lead Amount/Placement

[Bri49er80]

Hello,

We just got our SA and trying to dial in the surf wave for the family. I am curious on other owners surf settings for a 2020 or 2021 SA (new model)? Do you add lead? If so, how much and where are you placing it? What surf settings are you using (pitch and roll amount)? Do you use autowake or manual? Thank you in advance.

Brian

2021 Supra SA 450

[larry_arizona]

Got a killer wave using swell surf 2 preset then slightly tweak it, autowake off, 8-8.5 pitch 4 roll goofy, 8-8.5 pitch -1 roll regular wake plate 0-15%, stock ballast 100/100/100 crew was light (driver and spotter only). 10.8-11.2mph

https://youtube.com/shorts/QV6qktlDpL4?feature=share

Next time out going to try wake 9’s 20SA numbers. Also picked up 500# lead to play with.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210606/dda2f7960c18f2c544622c7452f1b84b.jpg

Also, I will be placing lead midship and rear lockers, the SA doesn’t need anymore bow weight, I couldn’t get the bow above 8.5 pitch and only had 100% bow bag. I will add midship lead and then add to rear lockers until I can hit 9-9.5 pitch.


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[svienb]

I had to put 200lbs of lead in the bow on my 2019SA to get it down to 8.5deg.
I fill all bags.
I also go up to 11.5mph to lengthen out the wave.
I plan to get 400Ilbs more to distribute evenly as I generally have a light crew.

[larry_arizona]

I had to put 200lbs of lead in the bow on my 2019SA to get it down to 8.5deg.
I fill all bags.
I also go up to 11.5mph to lengthen out the wave.
I plan to get 400Ilbs more to distribute evenly as I generally have a light crew.

Totally agree the 2016-2019 SA’s needed bow weight, The next gen 2020-2021SA’s don’t need additional bow weight.


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[2in2out]

Hello,

We just got our SA and trying to dial in the surf wave for the family. I am curious on other owners surf settings for a 2020 or 2021 SA (new model)? Do you add lead? If so, how much and where are you placing it? What surf settings are you using (pitch and roll amount)? Do you use autowake or manual? Thank you in advance.

Brian

2021 Supra SA 450

Brian,

We’ve added 950# of lead evenly distributed to our boat and we used Autowake Surf setting 2. This was only our 2nd outing on the 2020 SA. I did some mods to surf setting 2 and saved my own profile. These pics are before I saved my profile. They are hard to see. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210606/82762665280fda70c8500cd5ee6bb831.jpg


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[2in2out]

Here was the wave on those settings. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210606/2a2ab42033d92d6caf4817e999a57ebe.jpg


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[larry_arizona]

Here was the wave on those settings. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210606/2a2ab42033d92d6caf4817e999a57ebe.jpg


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That is a baller wave. So clean


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[2in2out]

That is a baller wave. So clean


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I need more lead or crew. Whenever I get out to surf, I lose 250+ of displacement, and wave gets softer. I don’t want to add pnp even though I have the space for it.


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[Bri49er80]

That is a clean wave indeed and what I am looking for. Just want to clean it up a bit. I was planning to add a 100 pounds of lead to bring me to 500 pounds. Was hoping not to add 950 pounds though as that is a ton.

[larry_arizona]

You can absolutely surf an SA stock with light crew, 500# it will throw a pro wake.


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[2in2out]

That is a clean wave indeed and what I am looking for. Just want to clean it up a bit. I was planning to add a 100 pounds of lead to bring me to 500 pounds. Was hoping not to add 950 pounds though as that is a ton.

I only went 950 because it’s usually just my wife and I. She barely weighs 2 bags worth of lead. And when I get out of the boat we lose 250+. If I had a regular crew of 4+, I’d run with 500.


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[Bri49er80]

Makes sense. We will have 4-5+ so 500 should be good. I will mess with the settings this week. If anyone finds good tweaks, would love to her it. Can’t wait to get that clean wave too! Thank you all.

[larry_arizona]

575# lead makes a big difference on the SA.

225# mid ship starboard, 100# mid ship port, 150# rear locker starboard, 100# rear locker port.

100/100/100 bags autowake off, driver, and spotter in rear seat center, wake surf 2 preset, goofy 9-9.5, -2.5 to -3.0, 10.9-11.2mph, wake plate at 15%, long fat wave.

Now, anyone know how to teach my kid to stop spinning and ride out a 360 LOL

https://youtube.com/shorts/XSvu8vfw-nU?feature=share


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[larry_arizona]

Screenshot of wave from above settings https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210611/4fb131c5c513f9416992b7d126b36d58.jpg


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[HFarr]

That's a good solid spin. What board is he on? Is it a skim style? Any fins?

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[larry_arizona]

Phase 5 key skim (one of the matrix variants)
Small center fin.


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[repomannv]

I'm running a 2021 SA 450; All of Wake9's Supra Info on youtube is *gold*, start there.

My goofy side wave was much easier to get dialed in, so I would also start on that side :-) it was absolutely clean, long and big from day one using stock settings and autowake, and got better with Wake9's recommendations (i.e. around 9 - 9.5 pitch, 3 to 4 degree's of roll, and we like the boat around 11.2mph). I have 1000lbs of lead but don't use all of it depending on how many people are on the boat. Sometimes its just two of us, so I bring all the lead. What I really struggled with was the regular side wave, I just couldn't get a consistent wave, and especially I couldn't get a clean wave. I could get a big wave depending on settings, but it was always dirty. I'd go with around 9 - 10 degrees of pitch, and about -1 degree of roll, as Wake9 suggested as a starting point, but it was dirty on my boat. I learned that not every boat is identical, you have to experiment and find what works on yours. It took me awhile to realize I needed more roll on my boat on the regular side... with about about negative 4 to 4.5 degrees of roll the regular wave got super clean! Lead really helps a lot, you can move it around and experiment to see what works, getting those ballast tanks full definitely gets a bigger wave. Once I get a wave I like, I turn off autowake and just lock everything in for that rider. Don't be afraid to experiment and take a lot of notes so you remember. Change one thing at a time, otherwise you won't know what change made a difference.

Something that I'm struggling with is speed... autowake doesn't seem to get my boat up to the right speed, I think I may have a calibration issue? If I set autowake at 11.2mph for instance, my boat will go 10.0 or something like that, if I bump up the autowake speed, say to 14, my boat my go up to 10.8 or so. My boat has no problem returning to dock at full speed so its not a prop issue, or systemic engine issue. Has anyone else experienced something like this with autowake? I'm going to call it into Supra, but thought I was mention it here to see if someone else has seen this problem.

[2in2out]

I'm running a 2021 SA 450; All of Wake9's Supra Info on youtube is *gold*, start there.

My goofy side wave was much easier to get dialed in, so I would also start on that side :-) it was absolutely clean, long and big from day one using stock settings and autowake, and got better with Wake9's recommendations (i.e. around 9 - 9.5 pitch, 3 to 4 degree's of roll, and we like the boat around 11.2mph). I have 1000lbs of lead but don't use all of it depending on how many people are on the boat. Sometimes its just two of us, so I bring all the lead. What I really struggled with was the regular side wave, I just couldn't get a consistent wave, and especially I couldn't get a clean wave. I could get a big wave depending on settings, but it was always dirty. I'd go with around 9 - 10 degrees of pitch, and about -1 degree of roll, as Wake9 suggested as a starting point, but it was dirty on my boat. I learned that not every boat is identical, you have to experiment and find what works on yours. It took me awhile to realize I needed more roll on my boat on the regular side... with about about negative 4 to 4.5 degrees of roll the regular wave got super clean! Lead really helps a lot, you can move it around and experiment to see what works, getting those ballast tanks full definitely gets a bigger wave. Once I get a wave I like, I turn off autowake and just lock everything in for that rider. Don't be afraid to experiment and take a lot of notes so you remember. Change one thing at a time, otherwise you won't know what change made a difference.

Something that I'm struggling with is speed... autowake doesn't seem to get my boat up to the right speed, I think I may have a calibration issue? If I set autowake at 11.2mph for instance, my boat will go 10.0 or something like that, if I bump up the autowake speed, say to 14, my boat my go up to 10.8 or so. My boat has no problem returning to dock at full speed so its not a prop issue, or systemic engine issue. Has anyone else experienced something like this with autowake? I'm going to call it into Supra, but thought I was mention it here to see if someone else has seen this problem.

Someone else had mentioned a possible fault with the GPS puck.

Our SA fluctuated going upwind, but was steady downwind.


Currently boatless

[repomannv]

Someone else had mentioned a possible fault with the GPS puck.

Our SA fluctuated going upwind, but was steady downwind.


Currently boatless

I'm going to gather more details on my next outing, but I think that was true, upwind it struggled to maintain correct speed, downwind not at all. I also think I didn't have any issues at all with accurate speed control prior to putting a bunch of lead mid-ship and in the stern of the boat. I think I'm running the 16x13.9 prop given its a 2021 model, I'll check that as well. I saw a note about unplugging the gps puck and seeing if that changes anything, that could be worth a try to gather more info. I'm always learning, this forum is very helpful, thank you all.

[KnoxMojo]

I'm going to gather more details on my next outing, but I think that was true, upwind it struggled to maintain correct speed, downwind not at all. I also think I didn't have any issues at all with accurate speed control prior to putting a bunch of lead mid-ship and in the stern of the boat. I think I'm running the 16x13.9 prop given its a 2021 model, I'll check that as well. I saw a note about unplugging the gps puck and seeing if that changes anything, that could be worth a try to gather more info. I'm always learning, this forum is very helpful, thank you all.

Are you boating on a body of water with current? High winds can also slow you down. Remember, GPS is speed over land, not water. It isn't going to be 100 percent accurate if in current and wind.

[2in2out]

I also noticed fluctuations when going through different temperature currents of water. When we would enter a warm current speed reduced slightly, then pick up in cold current.

It may have been current speed based on convective flow like diurnal wind changes, that I couldn’t sense, but I could sense the temp changes.


Currently boatless

[SONIC]

None of this makes any sense to me lol
The Zero-Off is gps based it doesn't care about the wind or the water current.

You could get a different speed relative to the water and therefore a different wave depending on water current but I think you guys are talking about the zero-off behavior?

[KnoxMojo]

None of this makes any sense to me lol
The Zero-Off is gps based it doesn't care about the wind or the water current.

You could get a different speed relative to the water and therefore a different wave depending on water current but I think you guys are talking about the zero-off behavior?

GPS cruise absolutely cares about wind and water current. It is speed over land, not water. Paddlewheel is actually better in bodies of water with strong current.

[SONIC]

GPS cruise absolutely cares about wind and water current. It is speed over land, not water. Paddlewheel is actually better in bodies of water with strong current.

That's my point exactly haha.

If the Zerooff is set to 11 the boat is going to go 11mph in reference to the satellites, it doesn't care about wind or current so it's not going to change the readout or cause the boat to not get to speed.
If the boat is not reaching speed it's a mechanical or electrical issue not a wind or current issue.

(that's of course assuming you aren't going straight up a raging river that is pushing back at you so hard that the boat doesn't have the power to overcome it and get to gps speed)

I suppose if you went from an area of no current or no wind and then into an area with current or wind your speed would fluctuate a bit until the zero-off catches up to the change, but that's not what repomannv was talking about I don't think. He's talking about setting the cruise at 14 and the boat goes 11, that's a mechanical or electrical issue and not a wind or current issue (again unless we're talking about extreme currents like tides)

[KnoxMojo]

That's my point exactly haha.

If the Zerooff is set to 11 the boat is going to go 11mph in reference to the satellites, it doesn't care about wind or current so it's not going to change the readout or cause the boat to not get to speed.
If the boat is not reaching speed it's a mechanical or electrical issue not a wind or current issue.

(that's of course assuming you aren't going straight up a raging river that is pushing back at you so hard that the boat doesn't have the power to overcome it and get to gps speed)

I suppose if you went from an area of no current or no wind and then into an area with current or wind your speed would fluctuate a bit until the zero-off catches up to the change, but that's not what repomannv was talking about I don't think. He's talking about setting the cruise at 14 and the boat goes 11, that's a mechanical or electrical issue and not a wind or current issue (again unless we're talking about extreme currents like tides)

I can't explain it in terms you are going to understand I guess, but speed over water is different than speed over land. That is why the different makes have or had up river or down river offset settings for gps zero off... I will google research later something that shows better than what I can articulate.

[larry_arizona]

Perhaps this will help?

https://www.myseatime.com/blog/detail/speed-over-water-or-speed-over-ground-which-one-to-use


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[larry_arizona]

My 2018 had the manual current correction, my 2021 does not, maybe the gps and paddle wheel automatically compensate?

Edit:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210629/6e3ff803dc6ed22995989ffe316a0a34.jpg


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[KnoxMojo]

My 2018 had the manual current correction, my 2021 does not, maybe the gps and paddle wheel automatically compensate?

Edit:
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210629/6e3ff803dc6ed22995989ffe316a0a34.jpg


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I asked an engineer about this. It was just too confusing for the user so they took tige function away. All I know is when I'm headed down river with current my speed needed to get my wake dialed is different than going up river against the current.

[repomannv]

Are you boating on a body of water with current? High winds can also slow you down. Remember, GPS is speed over land, not water. It isn't going to be 100 percent accurate if in current and wind.
On the day we were having trouble getting the boat to maintain autowake desired speed, there was both a stronger than normal current and higher than normal wind. This was on Lake Mead and we usually go out on very calm days.

I also just noticed my prop is a 16x17 !!! WTF ? Dealer must have spec'ed that for the boat, rather than the standard for a 2021 SA which apparently is a 16 x 13.9 now. Interesting, and I'm pretty shocked. Since we only wakesurf on the boat, I'm definitely thinking I should switch the prop down to a 16x15 or 16x13.9.

[larry_arizona]

The 16x17 is standard, 16x13.9 and 16x12.5 are optional.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210630/4183a848f46ea8b13652ac4ffcd4fcef.jpg


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[Holdmybeer]

Do an online search. Unless someone has a good lead with ACME on this site. It can be found for under $700. I know 1 just got sold here with the tool kit for a great deal.

[SONIC]

I think it's you that's not understanding here. We're on the same page.

[SONIC]

I can't explain it in terms you are going to understand I guess, but speed over water is different than speed over land. That is why the different makes have or had up river or down river offset settings for gps zero off... I will google research later something that shows better than what I can articulate.

I think it's you that's not understanding, not being rude but I am well aware that the speed over water and speed over land are different.
I was responding to this post:

"If I set autowake at 11.2mph for instance, my boat will go 10.0 or something like that, if I bump up the autowake speed, say to 14, my boat my go up to 10.8 or so."


The zero off is going to go 11.2 if it's set to 11.2. That is 11.2 over the ground, it may be 18 or 6 in reference to the water (current dependent) but it's still going to say 11.2 on the screen because it's going 11.2 in reference to the satellites, just like it's supposed to.


The post I was referring to above is a prop issue( like I said), as he already verified, a 16x17 with ballast is not going to be happy getting to speed. If he's going into the current he just doesn't have enough torque to reach the set speed because the set speed is the gps speed + the current speed when going against it.

To further clarify: if his GPS speed is 11mph and he has a 2mph current against him then he's moving 13mph over the water. His current prop just isn't capable of 13mph fully loaded so he never reaches speed.

The offset feature was so that you can calibrate it for a current so your speed relative to the water is correct, it has nothing to do with maintaining a set speed. It's function was so that you can have the same wave going up and down stream because the wave cares about speed over water not speed over land.


This is a prop issue, not a cruise issue.
Headwind causes the same problem, it's not an issue with the GPS cruise, the boat just doesn't have the power with that prop to overcome a strong headwind.

GPS cruise being crappy for places with a current is a different discussion, that's all I'm saying here.

[SONIC]

On the day we were having trouble getting the boat to maintain autowake desired speed, there was both a stronger than normal current and higher than normal wind. This was on Lake Mead and we usually go out on very calm days.

I also just noticed my prop is a 16x17 !!! WTF ? Dealer must have spec'ed that for the boat, rather than the standard for a 2021 SA which apparently is a 16 x 13.9 now. Interesting, and I'm pretty shocked. Since we only wakesurf on the boat, I'm definitely thinking I should switch the prop down to a 16x15 or 16x13.9.

Nettle prop has the best price and service:

https://www.nettleprops.com/acme-3591-propeller-4-blade-16-x-13-90-lh-1-1/8-bore-105-cup.aspx

[HFarr]

Actually, it's 11.2 relative to some satellites, which are traveling really fast relative to the earth.[emoji848][emoji38]. Yeah I know...none of what I said is relative, and I'm being a smartass! LOL!

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[KnoxMojo]

I think it's you that's not understanding here. We're on the same page.

I understand fully. Yes he needs a different prop, was just talking about that gps on the water isn't as consistent as everyone thinks for keeping the proper speed for the same wake going with and against the current. PS, OJ Props has a 16x14 that my buddy runs, it is really nice on his new SL.

[SONIC]

I understand fully. Yes he needs a different prop, was just talking about that gps on the water isn't as consistent as everyone thinks for keeping the proper speed for the same wake going with and against the current. PS, OJ Props has a 16x14 that my buddy runs, it is really nice on his new SL.

I agree completely :)

I called oj about a 16x13 but they weren't willing to match the price on the acme equivalent. I was planning on giving them a go but it was about 130 more than the acme. They do seem like great folks though. He said that they strictly enforce their MAP and acme doesn't so dealers sell acme stuff barely above cost.

[larry_arizona]

I understand fully. Yes he needs a different prop, was just talking about that gps on the water isn't as consistent as everyone thinks for keeping the proper speed for the same wake going with and against the current. PS, OJ Props has a 16x14 that my buddy runs, it is really nice on his new SL.

Wonder how close the OJ 16x14 is to the ACME 16x13.9


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[KnoxMojo]

Wonder how close the OJ 16x14 is to the ACME 16x13.9


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We will be going out on his boat today since ole Ron is at the Dr., lol. I will ask him.

[larry_arizona]

We will be going out on his boat today since ole Ron is at the Dr., lol. I will ask him.

Well, you drove a 3591 on the SA, but you would need to surf that SL to compare the 16x14.

Any word on Ron’s diagnosis?


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[KnoxMojo]

Well, you drove a 3591 on the SA, but you would need to surf that SL to compare the 16x14.

Any word on Ron’s diagnosis?


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Dealer just picked it up today, hoping to know something first of next week, being the holiday, might take a minute. It will need a new Vee drive, after that, not sure.

[Holdmybeer]

. It will need a new Vee drive, after that, not sure.

Not good! Care to share?

[KnoxMojo]

Not good! Care to share?

Not totally sure as yet to what maybe happened, somehow got water in the v drive. The bilge hasn't been submerged and put over 50 hours on it this year. Have to wait and see. Failed case or seal, hopefully under warranty.

[tarasstjean]

I'm running a 2021 SA 450; All of Wake9's Supra Info on youtube is *gold*, start there.

My goofy side wave was much easier to get dialed in, so I would also start on that side :-) it was absolutely clean, long and big from day one using stock settings and autowake, and got better with Wake9's recommendations (i.e. around 9 - 9.5 pitch, 3 to 4 degree's of roll, and we like the boat around 11.2mph). I have 1000lbs of lead but don't use all of it depending on how many people are on the boat. Sometimes its just two of us, so I bring all the lead. What I really struggled with was the regular side wave, I just couldn't get a consistent wave, and especially I couldn't get a clean wave. I could get a big wave depending on settings, but it was always dirty. I'd go with around 9 - 10 degrees of pitch, and about -1 degree of roll, as Wake9 suggested as a starting point, but it was dirty on my boat. I learned that not every boat is identical, you have to experiment and find what works on yours. It took me awhile to realize I needed more roll on my boat on the regular side... with about about negative 4 to 4.5 degrees of roll the regular wave got super clean! Lead really helps a lot, you can move it around and experiment to see what works, getting those ballast tanks full definitely gets a bigger wave. Once I get a wave I like, I turn off autowake and just lock everything in for that rider. Don't be afraid to experiment and take a lot of notes so you remember. Change one thing at a time, otherwise you won't know what change made a difference.

Something that I'm struggling with is speed... autowake doesn't seem to get my boat up to the right speed, I think I may have a calibration issue? If I set autowake at 11.2mph for instance, my boat will go 10.0 or something like that, if I bump up the autowake speed, say to 14, my boat my go up to 10.8 or so. My boat has no problem returning to dock at full speed so its not a prop issue, or systemic engine issue. Has anyone else experienced something like this with autowake? I'm going to call it into Supra, but thought I was mention it here to see if someone else has seen this problem.I couldn't spin a 14.5 x 14.25 with full ballast when I got my 2017 SA 450. I went throu 4 lol rops to try and figure it out. Brought it into the dealer and they diagnosed the fuel pump at load wasn't getting to pressure. Just an idea.

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[tarasstjean]

I couldn't spin a 14.5 x 14.25 with full ballast when I got my 2017 SA 450. I went throu 4 lol rops to try and figure it out. Brought it into the dealer and they diagnosed the fuel pump at load wasn't getting to pressure. Just an idea.

Sent from my SM-N9860 using TapatalkProp issue for sure on the boat in discussion above. Should be a 3591 on the boat. Likely not a fuel pump as I suggested above.

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[SONIC]

Got my 3591 on this weekend.
Marginal improvement over the 16x15. I was hoping for more, it's better but nothing spectacular after one days use.

That being said I then promptly hit a rock (staying at my aunt and uncles lakehouse with a shallow dock unfortunately) and had to go back to the 16x15.
I barely noticed the difference surfing after swapping back. It's probably more noticeable getting up on plane but we didn't wakeboard at all until after the rock hit.

With the 16x15 and full ballast + 5 people and 600lbs of lead the ole 400 isn't thrilled but it will get up on plane and throw an intimidatingly wake. I imagine the 3591 will get there easier.

Point of this post is just to give my impression going from the 16x15 to the 16x13.9
Doing it over I would go lower pitch for more of an impact. The 16x13.9 is a great prop and likely the sweet spot between cruising and heavy weighted performance but it's not enough of a jump to justify switching from the 16x15 if you just want more bottom end IMO.

[larry_arizona]

Thanks for the feedback Justin, the 16x13.9 replaced the 16x15 option this year on Supra builder.

Perhaps just a refinement over the 16x15?


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[SONIC]

Thanks for the feedback Justin, the 16x13.9 replaced the 16x15 option this year on Supra builder.

Perhaps just a refinement over the 16x15?


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Yep that's my take. It's better, but not a huge upgrade. Not really worth spending the 1000 bucks on unless you need a backup and just want a small upgrade over the 16x15.

I think the 16x13 is probably the way to go heavily weighted.

[larry_arizona]

Keep in mind I came from a 2018 SA400 1.5 with a 15x12.5

The 400/1.76 16x13.9 pulls like a freight train comparatively.


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[SONIC]

Oh yeah I was super impressed with mine when I got it as well. As time goes on you always want more though hahaha. With no ballast I love to slam the throttle from idle and I'm on plane in a couple seconds or less it's awesome.

My only real "issue" is surging a bit with really heavy weight surfing. With all my ballast and a boat full of people my boat will overshoot then undershoot the target speed rhythmically. A prop with a bit more bite should solve that. I didn't get a chance to test that much weight with the 13.9 but if it fixes that then all is well with the world.