Time to move on!!

[sandm]

well,
after seeing how powell and mead are going to fare this year and knowing the ramps are going to be a hot mess, we have decided to take advantage of the hot boating market and move on. SAD to say the least as other than '17 I have been on the water since '07. will miss it a TON but I don't see us moving back into boating.
I honestly think we might have put 20hrs on the boat this year. schedules for both of us have been nuts with covid and our workload has both of us working 50+ and saturday as our only shared day off.

waiting to hear confirmation of his financing but looks like our 2020 is heading to Chico Ca for a new lease on life with a mom/dad and 2 teen girls. he said the girls were told last night and are STOKED!!

could not be happier it's going to what feels like a good owner AND even tho we have only owned the boat for 9 months, it's paying off the boat(we put zero down) and my last year on the truck so good to be down to just a house payment.

4 solid leads in 36hrs on onlyinboards and we are, imo, priced at retail for what the boat is really worth.

[larry_arizona]

First off sorry to see you go, but certainly understand the decision.


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[Wdavid]

Thank you for all your thoughtful responses on the board over the years. I for one have certainly gained knowledge from them. One last question...Making a pre launch list for my 2015 Moomba Mondo (New to me) for taking the boat off of the Floe Lift. I plan to laminate it and put it in the boat...yes it might be overkill but this is the most expensive thing I have ever purchased beyond our house. Do you have any thoughts on a list or do you have a list you used long ago? Thank you, David

[j.mo]

I am in the same decision currently.
There is hardly any water around, and the lake we frequent will be bananas. So even if you have a boat, good luck.

My boat is online for sale with many bites. I will probably get back into a boat, but I don’t see it happening this summer if and when ours goes.

I live about an hour and a half from Chico, I’m not sure where the new owners plan to use that thing. Oroville is all but dry, and same for Shasta. What water is available will be over ran or less than enjoyable.
I may take the money and run also.


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[UNSTUCK]

Stick around, and if you're ever in SLC, get in touch with me for a pull.

[larry_arizona]

Is the lake conditions out west that bad?

Damn lakes here have been near record levels.


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[Chuds]

Sorry to hear you are stepping away Sandm but hearing what you are dealing with down there I can understand why you would get out especially with the market. As others have said thank you for all your posts over the years as I have read a lot of them and it is guys like you that have made this forum as great as it is today. All the best and who knows never say never.

[zabooda]

Is the lake conditions out west that bad?

Damn lakes here have been near record levels.


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Record low levels at Lake Powell and environmentalists relentless in removing 4 dams on the Snake River and that is gaining more energy. The salmon has been gone when the dams were built so all is left is barge transportation, recreation boating and clean energy but the fish is winning out. Fighting environmentalists takes time and money and environmental groups have all of that while the working stiffs get screwed.

[2in2out]

We’ve been considering a similar path. Without move to Tx indefinitely delayed, and no water on the horizon, we’ve considered selling the boat, and paying off my truck with what we get over owed on the boat.

We just boat a used 2019 Travel Trailer and were considering doing some trips out of the area since lakes are dry.

A 2022 build probably isn’t in the future since my wife won’t have income this summer while she’s going to school. And like Sandm, staffing is low in my workplace so I’m usually doing 1-2 24hr shifts outside of my usual 48. It takes me an entire day to recover, so I’m usually getting 1 day off to run errands and repair stuff.

Sandm, if we don’t sell, and can find a wet spot bigger than a piss puddle, I’ll give you a pull if you get up north. Your friends and fam in Boise should have enough water to entertain you if you visit. Don’t step away from the forum. Some of us still need your insight.


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[larry_arizona]

If there was no lake access, I would be selling immediately, too expensive to wait for water.


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[larry_arizona]

Not encouraging........

https://lakepowellchronicle.com/article/is-lake-powell-doomed


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[Surf Wagon]

Thank you for sharing and sorry to hear. Please keep an eye on us as your experience is invaluable. Hell just move to Texas with everyone else. Lol no not really jk

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[Zog]

Not encouraging........

https://lakepowellchronicle.com/article/is-lake-powell-doomed


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Not at all. We switched houseboats this year from Bullfrog to Halls which is fortunate since Halls has the deepest launch in the lake, but all marinas could be forced to close before the end of the year without a lot of new inflow. That is a loss of 5,000,000 boater days if that lake becomes inaccessible. The rest of the lakes in Utah are also in sorry shape.

[rdlangston13]

Thank you for sharing and sorry to hear. Please keep an eye on us as your experience is invaluable. Hell just move to Texas with everyone else. Lol no not really jk

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We will be in a water bind if they do that! Too many people all sucking from the same lakes out there in the desert.

[larry_arizona]

Too much population growth pulling water from Powell, so what happens when Powell and Mead run out of water?

Forget about boating....If outflow is greater than inflow.... in a desert........you are F$&ked.


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[Josh828]

Sounds like you are doing what is best for you and although getting out is never fun at least you have a great opportunity to get out!

And yeah I realize the boating is an issue however if water levels are low doesn't that mean outflow is greater which means its not sustainable.
Shouldn't they be more worried about the lake being low for idk... survival hahaha

[sandm]

they are planning on publishing a plan in august to start to take care of mead/powell. farmers in arizona have given up some water rights and know they are going to lose water likely late this year and next year but getting mead/powell fixed is a MUCH longer term prospect. they won't go dry in my lifetime and they will do what they need to keep them sustainable but recreation is not the first priority and shouldn't be-not even sure it's on the radar. water for use and power generation are the focus.

they need to (1) tax the $hit out of water to discourage new pools in ca/az/nv (2) push solar on homes hard but NV Energy wants nothing to do with that (3) swipe water rights where not needed but lawyers won't ever let that happen. feds will band aid it for years to come but the pain will be boating and ease of access.

[Zog]

Too much population growth pulling water from Powell, so what happens when Powell and Mead run out of water?

Forget about boating....If outflow is greater than inflow.... in a desert........you are F$&ked.


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This is less about people than it is about agriculture. 80% of the water from Powell and Mead is managed to support agricultural use in Arizona, California, and Mexico, though the definition of agriculture also includes watering yards. The current drought period is now over 20 years long. The Bureau of Reclamation insists that Powell and Mead are doing their job, which is ensuring stable agricultural water supplies through a drought. It does make things problematic for boaters though. There is currently a big negotiation going on between the Colorado River Users to identify total available supply and redistribute the water. It will be a 20 year legal battle. The governing documents regarding management of the lakes do consider recreation, but they are priority 15, after agriculture, culinary, cultural, wildlife, geology, international agreements, etc. The fact that there are billions of dollars of boats and recreation associated with the lakes doesn't really concern the Bureau.

[larry_arizona]

This is less about people than it is about agriculture. 80% of the water from Powell and Mead is managed to support agricultural use in Arizona, California, and Mexico, though the definition of agriculture also includes watering yards. The current drought period is now over 20 years long. The Bureau of Reclamation insists that Powell and Mead are doing their job, which is ensuring stable agricultural water supplies through a drought. It does make things problematic for boaters though. There is currently a big negotiation going on between the Colorado River Users to identify total available supply and redistribute the water. It will be a 20 year legal battle. The governing documents regarding management of the lakes do consider recreation, but they are priority 15, after agriculture, culinary, cultural, wildlife, geology, international agreements, etc. The fact that there are billions of dollars of boats and recreation associated with the lakes doesn't really concern the Bureau.

Step 1, cut off water to foreign countries.......


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[sandm]

Step 1, cut off water to foreign countries.......


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the gov't signed a deal with mexico to store part of a lake in mead. they own part of the total water. sure there are a lot of political reasons to do what they did and people much smarter than me making those decisions. or at least I tell myself they are smarter :)
zog is right in that agriculture is a big chunk but just as much is power generation and don't forget about nevada. 90% of our local vegas water comes from mead. in a town that is currently growing again by almost 1000 people a month.
recreation is simply a byproduct and they don't give 2-shits about that industry. treehuggers would like to see all of it shut down and lakes become nonmotorized.

[996scott]

Bummed to hear that Sandm, but i totally understand. It's been great having you around and your wealth of knowledge will be missed. Hopefully you will chime in from time to time. If you're ever close by drop me a line and we will get you out for a pull (if there's any water ). Good luck moving forward!

Our lakes here in Utah are in bad shape and Powell is the same. We are heading to Powell in June and again in the Fall but the Fall trip my get cancelled for sure. Could be a short year.

[2in2out]

(2) push solar on homes hard but NV Energy wants nothing to do with that

Isn’t 70%?? Of the power from Hoover dam exported?

I understand NV Energy’s disdain for solar, and we saw the failures of unregulated free market energy in California and Texas, but solar is such a convenient and manageable solution.

I know watershed issues are long standing in the west slope headwaters of the Great Basin. Nothing is going to slow development except economic collapse, but that only pushes people further away from cities for the perception of “cheaper” living.

I know others may castigate me for this statement, but the human impact to worldwide climate change need to be taken serious by each individual including myself.


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[larry_arizona]

Weren’t the solar farms in either Nevada or Cali epic failures and they finally shut them down.

Was it Ivanpah?

I recall these mirror farms meant to focus solar to towers, or something like that, but they proved costly and grossly underperforming.


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[sandm]

Isn’t 70%?? Of the power from Hoover dam exported?


yup. but we can control some of what is used here and cali/az use the rest. 2 states that are ripe for solar.

read a story a year ago or so that solar can be put on a house in australia for rough and tough 5k. it's 20+ here after you pay all the licensing/inspection and servicing fees and installation on top of it. it's a racket. sure the power grid in cali/az are fighting it as much as nvenergy.
I get it that if everyone has solar nvenergy doesn't have income to maintain the grid but if we want to conserve water for recreation something has to give.

I know they will not let the 2 lakes dry up to the point they can't provide irrigation/power but as mentioned recreation is only a byproduct that is not part of the grand scheme.
the country has changed in the last 20 years and time for some change to water issues but... lawyers and politicians will turn it into a long long long battle that in the end recreation users will get shafted and the others get rich.

and not sure on the focused solar power but if you ever come to vegas, drive out south to laughlin or north past the speedway and there are miles of solar farms running. the difference is the power company is vested in those and makes all the profits. solar on our house nets the power company nada.

[bergermaister]

Switching gears - sad to hear you're going but I'm guessing you'll checkin now and then - too hard to resist.

So aside from the whoas of the world, what's next? I'm sure you're due for a mid-life crisis machine.

Hellcat/Demon
Something with gull wing doors
Crotch Rocket
Harley

??

[Guppydriver]

I was just going over my PM’s and couldn’t help but notice multiple, very lengthy, PM’s from @sandm going out of his way to help a complete nube like me. Particularly, lots of sincere offers to help with stereo installs, invitations to meet me for a pull, and very detailed, unbiased, advice about his buying experience that I found very valuable when deciding on my purchase.

Here’s to hoping I can still take @sandm up on his offer to meet at Mead....just with my boat instead!!

[rdlangston13]

This is less about people than it is about agriculture. 80% of the water from Powell and Mead is managed to support agricultural use in Arizona, California, and Mexico, though the definition of agriculture also includes watering yards.

This also is related directly to people. The more people the more yards to water the more electricity needs to be generated (flowing water through the turbines in the dams), and the more food that needs to be grown. It is all a cause of population boom and then the drought added on top of that. Need to build a desalinization plant to ease the burden on the these lakes and increase solar and wind capacity (or maybe the only really green energy source, nuclear) to alleviate the need to constantly drain the lakes for power generation.

[Hayden]

All the best with whatever you decide to move onto next, Sandm. Always enjoyed reading your opinion on wake boat life.

[zabooda]

I know others may castigate me for this statement, but the human impact to worldwide climate change need to be taken serious by each individual including myself.


We know how that worked out wearing masks and getting vaccinated. Take away a man's gasoline things will get nasty.

[sandm]

Switching gears - sad to hear you're going but I'm guessing you'll checkin now and then - too hard to resist.

So aside from the whoas of the world, what's next? I'm sure you're due for a mid-life crisis machine.

Hellcat/Demon
Something with gull wing doors
Crotch Rocket
Harley

??

haha. thx
had 4 crotch rockets and still ride my z650 every day to work so that's covered. harleys are nice but can't stomach a 40k price for a full on touring machine.
dodge is a bad word in our house :)
really I'm past my mid life crisis. already had the divorce and had several 11sec imports in the past so not sure....
BUT that said, I see us picking up a camaro or stang in the future. something to do some road trippin with. for now tho, sit back and stuff some coin in the bank.
gf used to ride so we have talked about picking up another bike like mine and doing some weekend touring.

I appreciate the kind words from all but you can quit lying to me.. I know I can be a pompous ass sometimes and it's part of my new years resolution but for those that found value in my pointed opinions, I appreciate the thoughts :) :)

and anyone that ever comes to vegas, always a spot to crash or park the whip if you don't feel safe at the hotel with it. got a great lot with tons of room to park on.

[larry_arizona]

Sandm,

A great option is hookers and blow, way cheaper than a wakeboat.......


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[eder10986]

Sandm,

A great option is hookers and blow, way cheaper than a wakeboat.......


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Not in the long run... just sayin!


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[brad460]

I know others may castigate me for this statement, but the human impact to worldwide climate change need to be taken serious by each individual including myself.


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Yes, you should take a little beating over this..haha

My first thought when I see people make these type of statements- Ok you go first! Eliminate everything you feel causes “climate change”...:cool:

[larry_arizona]

Isn’t 70%?? Of the power from Hoover dam exported?

I understand NV Energy’s disdain for solar, and we saw the failures of unregulated free market energy in California and Texas, but solar is such a convenient and manageable solution.

I know watershed issues are long standing in the west slope headwaters of the Great Basin. Nothing is going to slow development except economic collapse, but that only pushes people further away from cities for the perception of “cheaper” living.

I know others may castigate me for this statement, but the human impact to worldwide climate change need to be taken serious by each individual including myself.


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I won’t castigate, but I believe you live currently in California and you can’t help being indoctrinated with green ideology compared to the rest of the country. Very understandable and won’t disrespect it.

Won’t say we can’t do anything to improve, we certainly have already by a large margin. But eliminating fossil fuels is not the answer. If Texas didn’t just prove this recently, wind and solar are not the full time answer.

Love the idea of nuclear, but natural gas and coal are the answers to maintaining our basic needs.


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[sandm]

stop it larry. enough of the common sense in here :)

[larry_arizona]

stop it larry. enough of the common sense in here :)

Yeah no place in this world for that anymore.....

But seriously, is it too soon to tell you how much I already miss you?


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[sandm]

Yeah no place in this world for that anymore.....

But seriously, is it too soon to tell you how much I already miss you?


I didn't know we were at that point in our bromance :)

[j.mo]

I won’t castigate, but I believe you live currently in California and you can’t help being indoctrinated with green ideology compared to the rest of the country. Very understandable and won’t disrespect it.

Won’t say we can’t do anything to improve, we certainly have already by a large margin. But eliminating fossil fuels is not the answer. If Texas didn’t just prove this recently, wind and solar are not the full time answer.

Love the idea of nuclear, but natural gas and coal are the answers to maintaining our basic needs.


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I’m an oil man in California.
License plate on my Cummins says Oilrig.

Imagine how that goes over a stones throw from the Bay Area [emoji23]


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[MJHSupra]

I’m an oil man in California.
License plate on my Cummins says Oilrig.

Imagine how that goes over a stones throw from the Bay Area [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHa ha! Do you have key-marks going down the side of your rig?

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[Bmac]

@sandm I really appreciated your help on how to boat Mead. The group I was with was way impressed at the length you went to tell us where to boat, which beaches to hit, and where to drop the boat in to miss all the chaos. You’re one of the good ones. And best of luck on the next phase.


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[haknslash]

Sorry to see you go but I understand given your situation and this market. I’ve appreciated reading your posts and replies. If you’re ever in God’s country (the Southeast) swing by Lake Martin and I’ll give ya a pull. I hope you stick around and still interact despite not having a boat.

[Isaguel]

Geez, reading some of the posts I thought you were terminal!. You're just selling your boat. Dude, there is no reason for you not to visit. You regularly offer insightful, constructive and informed opinions on various subjects. I appreciate that and hope you stick around just to offer your 2 cents every once in a while. You might want to keep your feet in the water in case you decide to join the boating game again. Otherwise, in a few years we'll be answering your posts on how to lengthen the wave and how much ballast can I add to this new boat.:cool:

[EricU]

well,
after seeing how powell and mead are going to fare this year and knowing the ramps are going to be a hot mess, we have decided to take advantage of the hot boating market and move on. SAD to say the least as other than '17 I have been on the water since '07. will miss it a TON but I don't see us moving back into boating.
I honestly think we might have put 20hrs on the boat this year. schedules for both of us have been nuts with covid and our workload has both of us working 50+ and saturday as our only shared day off...

Wow! I haven't logged onto this site in probably four years as I have had two other boats since selling my 2001 Moomba. And this is one of the first posts that I come across. Have to say that I understand as I haven't put too many hours on our latest "Glass Hunter" (a 2015 Axis T23) due to the Northern California wild fires and drought conditions. Why build new dams? That would be infrastructure. At least I'm not bitter!

Anyways thanks for the advise and comments years ago, good luck and there are plenty of other hobbies!!

[j.mo]

I learned yesterday our local reservoir that actually has water will be shutting down boating operations in 3 weeks due to low water levels.
Folsom lake which is our other reservoir has not and will not even open for boating because it is essentially empty.


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[GeorgeFell07]

the news are too sad((
I've read some of your posts, you'll be missed here for sure!