Since we are talking tow vehicles....3/4 and one ton differences..

[Guppydriver]

Because the current gen Tundra is so antiquated, I basically stole my 2020 last year on a zero down two year lease. It was a "Godfather offer" and a nice stop gap while things hopefully recover a bit in my industry.

That being said...

I'll be looking at a new tow rig in exactly one year. The other thread has me seriously thinking about heavy duty trucks because of payload issues. We anticipate quite a few 4+ hour drives one way during the season, as well as towing locally up some steep grades at >5000 msl weekly. I know the Tundra will be fine this summer, but I am going to buy my next truck and want it to be a nice long term solution although the thought of something that big as a daily driver isn't the most appealing.

I'm a total heavy duty nube, but I have been playing around a bit on the big three's websites. The two primary observations I have are...

1. I can't really tell the diff between the 3/4 and full ton trucks from a feature/engine/options/design aspect. They seem like exactly the same truck except the full ton gives you a sizable advantage in payload and in some configurations, towing.

2. The cost delta between the two is very marginal, especially considering the high cost of the vehicle. The full ton's cost premium is only 1-2% more than a 3/4 depending on trim line.

So here's my question...

What am I missing? Why wouldn't you spend around an extra thousand dollars on a 60-80K truck to have substantially more payload and maybe more towing capability? Why are there so many 3/4 tons on the road if this is the case and what features do they have that the 1 ton doesn't?

I mean, if you were buying a Porsche for 100K because you love fast sports cars and the dealer said for an extra $1500 bucks, I'll give you the same car but with 20% more performance, who wouldn't do it?

[j.mo]

Because the current gen Tundra is so antiquated, I basically stole my 2020 last year on a zero down two year lease. It was a "Godfather offer" and a nice stop gap while things hopefully recover a bit in my industry.

That being said...

I'll be looking at a new tow rig in exactly one year. The other thread has me seriously thinking about heavy duty trucks because of payload issues. We anticipate quite a few 4+ hour drives one way during the season, as well as towing locally up some steep grades at >5000 msl weekly. I know the Tundra will be fine this summer, but I am going to buy my next truck and want it to be a nice long term solution although the thought of something that big as a daily driver isn't the most appealing.

I'm a total heavy duty nube, but I have been playing around a bit on the big three's websites. The two primary observations I have are...

1. I can't really tell the diff between the 3/4 and full ton trucks from a feature/engine/options/design aspect. They seem like exactly the same truck except the full ton gives you a sizable advantage in payload and in some configurations, towing.

2. The cost delta between the two is very marginal, especially considering the high cost of the vehicle. The full ton's cost premium is only 1-2% more than a 3/4 depending on trim line.

So here's my question...

What am I missing? Why wouldn't you spend around an extra thousand dollars on a 60-80K truck to have substantially more payload and maybe more towing capability? Why are there so many 3/4 tons on the road if this is the case and what features do they have that the 1 ton doesn't?

I mean, if you were buying a Porsche for 100K because you love fast sports cars and the dealer said for an extra $1500 bucks, I'll give you the same car but with 20% more performance, who wouldn't do it?

Some will say ride quality.
others will say depending on state, registration cost deltas.
I can tell you my 07 f350 is a kidney beater vs the same year f250.
The difference in the f250 and f350 is rear leaf pack and available gear ratios.
However 2017 Newer I couldn’t tell you for certain, but I’d assume the same holds true.

My other truck is a fairly new ram 2500 ctd, with factory air suspension. Ram come with coil or leaf depending if 2500 or 3500. Judging by the way my folks ram 3500 dually rode when empty, again I’d say the ride quality is significantly less vs my 2500. We went to visit Hearst castle last year, we hit a bump that sent my into the headliner (and to the chiropractor [emoji1787])in the backseat.

Personally, towing what we tow id go for the 1 ton. I’d rather have a stiffer ride and possibly higher reg costs vs being under on payload. I deal with this exact issue pulling my momentum. Having enough truck is peace of mind. I will be getting a new one for that reason as soon as I see the 2022 battle of the brands shakedown.


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[hubpost]

Think you hit on the essential issue of how categories are blurring, with 1/2 tons now offering towing capacities that use to be 3/4 and 1 ton class, and so on.

There use to be sharp distinctions, clear differences, but not necessarily any longer.

Need to look at the individual VIN, how it is built, what equipment is on it, what the factory rated it as.

There are a lot of marketing reasons for doing this, as certain segments like their dressed up truck but don't want a 1 ton (and yet want the towing capacity at least on paper).

You be amazed at how they target trucks for the Work Truck crowd, the Urban Cowboy, and the Poser Girl.

[Guppydriver]

You be amazed at how they target trucks for the Work Truck crowd, the Urban Cowboy, and the Poser Girl.

I don't use my truck for work. I'm certainly not an Urban Cowboy..

Damn.. That just leaves one.

[sandm]

we have a 99 f250SD 4x4 and I can say it's ride quality is quite a bit worse than the chevy 1500 when unloaded. dump 2 tons of rock in it and it rides MUCH better :)

one thing not mentioned is insurance costs. we only carry liability on our 99. it's significantly more expensive than our chevy truck and our car. company told me this is due to it being a 3/4 and rated as a "work vehicle". said 1tons were even higher but no data to back that up.
realize insurance is apples and oranges to everyone even if we have the same company so no reason to compare but worth the call to your company to inquire.

[Surgical_ass]

J.mo nailed it. Coil spring (2500) vs leaf spring (3500) which really affects ride quality unloaded. Also, not sure how other areas are but 3500 is exempt from emissions testing in our County.

[Guppydriver]

J.mo nailed it. Coil spring (2500) vs leaf spring (3500) which really affects ride quality unloaded. Also, not sure how other areas are but 3500 is exempt from emissions testing in our County.

Is this applicable to each of the big three...the coil vs. leaf?

So mainly rear suspension? Other than that....identical right?

[Surgical_ass]

Is this applicable to each of the big three...the coil vs. leaf?

So mainly rear suspension? Other than that....identical right?

I know that was the case when I was looking at Ram. I would assume the others are the same as well. as far as motor and transmission go I think for the most part the 2500 versus 3500 is the same as long as they are both gas burners. I think once you move up to diesel the transmission changes

[Guppydriver]

I know that was the case when I was looking at Ram. I would assume the others are the same as well. as far as motor and transmission go I think for the most part the 2500 versus 3500 is the same as long as they are both gas burners. I think once you move up to diesel the transmission changes

Sounds good. TBH, if I decide to go HD, I'm going diesel. An HD without the kerosene burner is like a V6 Mustang with racing stripes.

[j.mo]

Is this applicable to each of the big three...the coil vs. leaf?

So mainly rear suspension? Other than that....identical right?

Identical drive train and front suspension on gm and Ford, pertaining to SRW trucks. Other than gear ratio options and rear leaf pack.
Ford finally moved to coil on the raptor for 2021, so I’d say the f150 is not far behind but probably not anytime soon on the super dirt line, but who knows.
Another thing that affects payload is obviously cab configuration, engine choice, and options. My ram 2500 is highly optioned, nothing left on the table for the Laramie trim. My payload is to be desired, only 2600lb. Take off all the options in a big horn say, probably gain 600-800lb.

But the only thing that will get you into another category of axles, brakes etc is going up into the 450/5500 class. Which obviously none of us are going to do, even as bad as I want those 10 lug f450 axles and the wide body flares [emoji1787]


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[Holdmybeer]

I feel qualified to answer this post after owning a couple 3/4 and now my current a 1 ton dually.

Buy diesel...hands down....so many people buy gas then wish they had the torque.
2nd..is this going to be your daily driver? That matters which I would recommend.

GM...ride quality for 2500 to 3500 is huge on the back but can be made "softer" with air bag helpers. Front independent suspension rides nice but more moving parts equals more maintenance. The duramax/allison combo is super reliable

Ford...awesome power, drives nice, again ride quality between 3/4 and ton is huge. Straight axle front is a rougher ride but less maintenance.

Ram...Cummins is just easy to work on and reliable. I won't buy the 3/4 because the 66rfe or 68rfe Trans is known for problems. The 3500 get the Aisin trans....bulletproof. again straight axle so ride can be rough...but can get factory air ride suspension and it rides like a 1/2 ton.

My next truck will be SRW....Dually is overkill for me. I'm leaning towards the Ram because I want the Megacab, but the others are catching up with their crew cab sizes.

All 3 will pull whatever you throw at it but being I'm Utah....you won't have as much rust issues as we do here in Ohio. It is my only hesitation with the Ram trucks.

[Guppydriver]

I feel qualified to answer this post after owning a couple 3/4 and now my current a 1 ton dually.

Buy diesel...hands down....so many people buy gas then wish they had the torque.
2nd..is this going to be your daily driver? That matters which I would recommend.

GM...ride quality for 2500 to 3500 is huge on the back but can be made "softer" with air bag helpers. Front independent suspension rides nice but more moving parts equals more maintenance. The duramax/allison combo is super reliable

Ford...awesome power, drives nice, again ride quality between 3/4 and ton is huge. Straight axle front is a rougher ride but less maintenance.

Ram...Cummins is just easy to work on and reliable. I won't buy the 3/4 because the 66rfe or 68rfe Trans is known for problems. The 3500 get the Aisin trans....bulletproof. again straight axle so ride can be rough...but can get factory air ride suspension and it rides like a 1/2 ton.

My next truck will be SRW....Dually is overkill for me. I'm leaning towards the Ram because I want the Megacab, but the others are catching up with their crew cab sizes.

All 3 will pull whatever you throw at it but being I'm Utah....you won't have as much rust issues as we do here in Ohio. It is my only hesitation with the Ram trucks.


Great info... Thanks. I'm having a hard time letting go of the Dodge/Mopar quality of my youth and am kind of a GM guy, but I have been in a new Ram 1500 and holy cow was I blown away. I'm sure a 2500/250 will be more than I could ever use, it just goes back to my OP though..for a few bucks more to have way more capability. What I didn't know before this thread was that the ride would be substantially stiffer with a one ton, so as a daily driver, I can see why I see a lot of 3/4 tons on the road.

[2in2out]

I configured Ford F-250 and F-350 with the new 7.2 gas engine and compared both. It seems now Ford is offering class IV hitch in the tow packages. Price was lower than I expected for loaded, but when you configure around towing, expect to lose options.

I had an 02 7.2L F250 diesel crew cab short box and loved how it towed, but had to rebuild the transmission due to a known issue. We sold our trailer, and sold the truck not long after to a coworker of mine. He still owns it 15yrs later, and has maybe spent $2500 in repairs. We keep trying to buy from him.

I also had an 06 6L F250 diesel crew cab short box. Again, loved how it towed, but after the turbo intercooler and ECU went out, wifey said “Sell it!!!”.

My buddy has a 15 Ram 2500 Laramie. It tows well and rides nice. He has had tranny problems and fuel system issues, but otherwise has been good.

My work has 18-20 Ram 2500’s. New diesel emissions requirements have ruined diesel reliability. Def is a PITA, and def heaters fail frequently in vehicles in cold climates. If you venture off-road, when the exhaust pyrolyzes it can catch grass and brush on fire.

My coworker has a GMC 2500 diesel and just replaced a def heater under warrantee. He uses it as a daily driver mall crawler. I don’t know anyone with a newer Ford diesel, so I can’t speak to them. One acquaintance had a 19 F250 6L crew cab gas, but he uses it to haul his kids around and tow his fishing boat. I can only speak to the boat as I’ve ridden in it exclusively and never been in his truck.

When looking at trucks, I look to see which trucks fire, law enforcement, and the land management agencies are using. Nevada highway patrol uses GMCs and Ford F250’s. CHP uses GMC’s and Dodge 2500 in the north. Most Local fire uses Dodge 2500, but BLM seems to use Fords. USFS I’ve seen fords and Rams. EMS has long history with Fords because of the E and F450 ambulance chassis, but I’m seeing more GM trucks with them.

[SONIC]

I'm about ready for a new one.
Currently in a 2008 Duramax 2500 SWR that I like but its extended cab and I'd like to have 4 doors.
My buddy has a 19 Ram and it's amazing inside and rides like a Mercedes, but I just don't like the exterior which sucks otherwise I'd be in one.
The Chevy/gmc interior is far worse but I like the outside lines so I'll likely end up that direction again.

I tow a lot so a diesel is a must. IMO the only time I ever regret the diesel is if I'm on road trips it can be tough to find it in some spots if you are downtown somewhere. It sucks to hit Empty in downtown ATL and have to get off on 6 exits to find any diesel.

[Holdmybeer]

Yeah....I have been a GM guy the past few years. My dually is a 2008 duramax GMC 3500. Reliable rides ok...pulls awesome. Driving with no weight bests you to death, and the back seat is worse.
The Fords I have been in are nice and not bad on the back but for maintaining myself I have never liked the thought of lifting the cab off to get to the engine. Not bad trucks, just not something I want to do.
Ram new interior is awesome. The air ride makes the 1 ton ride great. Transmission problems and run makes me scared. The new 1 tons with the Aisin transmission is the only 1 to buy IMO. I believe the last time I configured a ram 3500 Cummins/Aisin mega cab price was around $70k check a similar at dealer lot and could have got it for $64k out the door.

[cucv]

My research is a bit dated but I went through this on a past truck purchase. When it came to a SRW 3/4 or 1 ton, I was only getting extra payload capacity in the bed and actually lost capacity on the front end. I went with the 3/4 ton because they would not install the plow I wanted on the 1ton because it was too heavy. There was no increase in rated tow capacity. I had two 3/4 ton Chevy's for a while at the same time, one was a dmax the other a 6L. I love the diesel but the gas got the job done, it just sounded like it was working much harder but came at a large cost savings. I currently have a 3/4 ton dmax and a 4500 dmax, the 4500 is no fun to drive empty. If I didn't want the extra payload capacity a DRW 1 ton gets you a nice bump in towing capacity with a much better ride than the 4500.

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[Guppydriver]

I'm about ready for a new one.
Currently in a 2008 Duramax 2500 SWR that I like but its extended cab and I'd like to have 4 doors.
My buddy has a 19 Ram and it's amazing inside and rides like a Mercedes, but I just don't like the exterior which sucks otherwise I'd be in one.
The Chevy/gmc interior is far worse but I like the outside lines so I'll likely end up that direction again.

I tow a lot so a diesel is a must. IMO the only time I ever regret the diesel is if I'm on road trips it can be tough to find it in some spots if you are downtown somewhere. It sucks to hit Empty in downtown ATL and have to get off on 6 exits to find any diesel.

I assume your buddy's Ram that rides like a mercedes is 1/2 ton right?

Sounds like on the Ram, the Aisin coupled with Cummins is as bulletproof as they come. Also sounds like air springs are a must on the Ram 1 ton ($1700 dollar option..yuck).

I'll think I'll start looking at the Ram 1 ton and the GM/Ford 3/4 tons. By this time next year it's possible that GM has new interiors (like the Tahoe) and I can see Ford incorporating their brand new F150 interior into the HD's as well by this time next year. If that's the case, I'll probably just be looking for the best deal a la sandm...

[j.mo]

My ram is the best riding 3/4 ton I’ve ever had for sure. Coupled with the auto leveling air bags it tows great as well.
I know the hearsay about the 68rfe and have my doubts as well. However, I have been running a compound turbo set up since 8k miles, now at 55k. 510whp and about 1200lb ft on a tow tune. I’ve hauled my 43ft momentum about 7k of those miles weighing in dry at 17.8k.
I just had all fluids changed for my 60k service as a precautionary measure, and the fluid looked great that the shop showed me.
I do not beat on the truck or hot rod it though.

If I had to place a bet on the “best riding” 3/4 ton truck, it would be a Denali though. Like mentioned you just can’t compare IFS to solid axle. But they are hideous and seriously lack in interior flare. But their drivetrain with is 2nd to none with the L5P and 10 speed.

All depends on what you want, all have a trade off. I’m not a brand loyal guy. I’m a car guy. I hop around to whoever has the best package for what I am looking for at the time.
Exterior looks, interior feel, ride, dependability, price etc.


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[sandm]

All depends on what you want, all have a trade off. I’m not a brand loyal guy. I’m a car guy. I hop around to whoever has the best package for what I am looking for at the time.
Exterior looks, interior feel, ride, dependability, price etc.



best statement ever. it is amazing tho how many won't even look at another brand.

[larry_arizona]

best statement ever. it is amazing tho how many won't even look at another brand.

I am employee discount loyal [emoji23]


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[jph3]

The Fords I have been in are nice and not bad on the back but for maintaining myself I have never liked the thought of lifting the cab off to get to the engine. Not bad trucks, just not something I want to do.


I think that was back in 2008. I am not brand loyal... I have had all three in the past few years and actually had some cummins issues that resulted in a buyback. The duramax was a great truck but the interior options were severely lacking.

Right now I have a 19 F350... all I can say is go one ton. The price difference is minimal for a much bigger payload, and they can absolutely be used as a daily. And, with today's DEF systems, warranty is your friend.

[Guppydriver]

I am employee discount loyal [emoji23]


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OK...

Question then...You're obligated by Moomba Forum bylaws to tell the whole and complete truth so help you God.

These "Employee Discounts for Everyone" that Ram and GM seem to run from time to time. Is it total marketing BS or is that really the same discount employees get "and not a penny more"?? I'm sure employees still do better than the average Joe during these promotions, and you should!

[larry_arizona]

OK...

Question then...You're obligated by Moomba Forum bylaws to tell the whole and complete truth so help you God.

These "Employee Discounts for Everyone" that Ram and GM seem to run from time to time. Is it total marketing BS or is that really the same discount employees get "and not a penny more"?? I'm sure employees still do better than the average Joe during these promotions, and you should!

I have never purchased during those employee discount for all promotions

I am fairly confident they are legit.

Over the years, I have typically had GM and Ford employee discounts and they are model and trim level sensitive.

Ford A plan for example is significantly better for an F150 XLT versus all other trim levels.

GM discount isn’t as good as it used to be but it consistent over trim levels.


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[larry_arizona]

Here is the F150 discounts.

X plan is supplier discount
A plan is employee discount.

Then you add in all the other available regional discounts available to everyone.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210210/af0a81219c35835b4395d26c7617a675.jpg


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[sandm]

we bought a car a few birthdays ago and had access thru a friend of a friend of a cousin to the A/X plans. it ended up being cheaper for us to walk into the dealership and work our own deal than using plan pricing. granted this was a minute ago and ymmv but for us it was just another pricing level that may or may not be better than going in on your own.

it's not hard to find the pricing out there if you google. def. not a secret.

[larry_arizona]

we bought a car a few birthdays ago and had access thru a friend of a friend of a cousin to the A/X plans. it ended up being cheaper for us to walk into the dealership and work our own deal than using plan pricing. granted this was a minute ago and ymmv but for us it was just another pricing level that may or may not be better than going in on your own.

it's not hard to find the pricing out there if you google. def. not a secret.

I absolutely think you can negotiate at or near X plan, pretty hard to do better than A plan.

A plan is only for direct employees and direct family members as close as uncle/aunt niece/nephew.

A plan is already under dealer invoice.

Perhaps on a vehicle without much A plan discount and has been on dealer lot awhile you can do better.

But tough to beat A plan plus all incentives on
An F150.

I was at nearly $14k off MSRP on both my F150’s


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[Guppydriver]

Here is the F150 discounts.

X plan is supplier discount
A plan is employee discount.

Then you add in all the other available regional discounts available to everyone.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210210/af0a81219c35835b4395d26c7617a675.jpg


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Thanks for sharing. I didn't realize how trim sensitive those discounts are. Do the X/A plan incentives fluctuate month to month like most consumer incentives or do they remain pretty contant? So you take your supplier/employee discount (-) supplier incentives (-) all other national and regional promos. It would be nice to not have to play the game coming in armed like this.

I have friends who got insane prices on their F150's from getting a "custom discount code" in the mail and email (like an appreciation card worth a extra couple grand) straight from the manufacturer (not the dealer). They didn't tell their dealer about it, negotiated a heavy discount, then once they verbally finalized the deal, dropped that bad boy on them. I asked one of them what he did to get the incentive code and he said ..."Nothing, got an email with it". I'm never that lucky lol.

[larry_arizona]

X/A plans are pretty steady but do change.

Regional incentives fluctuate a lot. I still have a 2002 GMC Sierra that I keep around to get the conquest cash.

When you walk into a dealer with A plan around here, the dealer understands you can go to anyone of 20-30 local Ford dealers, so most cut right to the bottom line. My 2019 took under 30 min to sign off.

Most dealers around here list prices with maximum discounts, then tell you which ones you don’t qualify for.

Perhaps different in the motor city than other regions. 99% of people in this area have access to employee or supplier discounts.

Last I checked, Raptors get no plan pricing and Superduty plan pricing is not very good.


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[MJHSupra]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210210/af0a81219c35835b4395d26c7617a675.jpg

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Where is this screen print from?

[larry_arizona]

Where is this screen print from?

Ford plan pricing website


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[sandm]

Where is this screen print from?

go here https://www.fordpartner.com/partnerweb/login.do
and enter mc405
this gets you the xplan. they are all over the place and that discount is pretty common. a plan I know is a lot harder.

14k off an f150 is all relative to the trim and option levels. been a minute since I shopped trucks but back when I did in '16 in wisconsin top trim level f150's were being sold for almost 20k off msrp. midlevel 4x4 trims seemed to run 10-13k off msrp. this was in december.

biggest advantage larry points out is 30 minutes and done in the dealership where someone else might spend half a day and pit a couple dealers to get to similar pricing. that's a big advantage in my book....

[j.mo]

Because the current gen Tundra is so antiquated, I basically stole my 2020 last year on a zero down two year lease. It was a "Godfather offer" and a nice stop gap while things hopefully recover a bit in my industry.



If you don’t mind me asking, and it may be overstepping boundaries. If it is, feel free to decline and I apologize.
But I’d been thinking about a tundra as a daily driver, I am seeing 36mo $449 a month with $3300 down as a lease.
Is that similar to your lease payment, except with 0 down or is it lower?


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[Guppydriver]

If you don’t mind me asking, and it may be overstepping boundaries. If it is, feel free to decline and I apologize.
But I’d been thinking about a tundra as a daily driver, I am seeing 36mo $449 a month with $3300 down as a lease.
Is that similar to your lease payment, except with 0 down or is it lower?


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I don't know what I did exactly but the stars aligned for my deal. I walked in with a quote from a popular broker on Leasehackr that is in New Jersey I think. It was the last day of the month so maybe they were trying to hit a quota. The quote was like $312 a month before tax with zero down (plus TTL obviously). It was a SR5 with the TRD package. Cloth seats, but otherwise a fairly loaded 4WD with a 49k MSRP. I told them I will pay $500 down (which is what the broker charged for his fee) as well as their doc fee. There was a very high residual being offered at the time by US Bank (not TFS).

They told me to go with the broker, that we were way too far apart. I didn't expect them to accept. That was at 5pm. They called me at 8:30pm and asked if I had time to make it in before they closed. They said 800 down and $320 a month tax included. I was there in 15 mins. I was stunned. The finance guy did get me for a windshield plan that he said was important because of the adaptive cruise control, but I just paid cash for that (it was cheap). He was good, I usually am strong like bull with saying no to the men in the cage

This was for 24 months which I know a lot of people don't like, but it was a perfect stopgap for me while I wait out the uncertainty in my industry (airline). Remember the 1% rule. A good rule of thumb is zero down and 1% of MSRP is a fantastic deal. You are looking at $540 a month with zero down. If it's a Platinum or something with a high MSRP, that's pretty good. If it's a base or mid tier model, then I bet you could do better. It's all about the residuals currently offered as well as the money factor. They change by the month like any other incentive. Toyotas are typically great to lease because of their low depreciation.

I'll tell you. The Tundras are sweet, but they are a brand new 12 year old truck and definitely lack the refinement of newer gen competitors. It doesn't bother me much though and I kind of like how they "drive like a truck". The new Toyota Safety Sense system (which is standard on every trim line) is awesome and I use the adaptive cruise control all the time. It's old school engine technology, but it's bulletproof...no cylinder deactivation or turbos, just displacement and tall gearing that can really move. Here's the caveat though. I honestly get about 13mpg mixed driving (mainly city)...she's thirsty...especially when compared to every other half ton motor out there. I've enjoyed it and it's a sexy, rugged looking truck, and because of my experience with it, I will give the next gen Tundra an honest shake when I turn in my truck (If I don't go HD).

Good Luck...PM me for any more info because I'm happy to help.

[Guppydriver]

Oh and remember

NEVER EVER put lots of money down on a lease for cap cost reduction. Put minimum down and take the higher payment. Always. Gap insurance covers the lessor, not you, the lessee.

[larry_arizona]

Heads up on USBANK, they are brutal on lease turn in.


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[zabooda]

I just bought a Highlander and the Costco car program got me double what I could get from the dealer. I never used the program before and pulled it out as a final try for a better price. BTW, used trucks have high trade value. Like boats, they don't depreciation much.

[j.mo]

Oh and remember

NEVER EVER put lots of money down on a lease for cap cost reduction. Put minimum down and take the higher payment. Always. Gap insurance covers the lessor, not you, the lessee.

I’ve never leased before, but I’ve read quite a bit about it. Everyone says the same. Never any down!! If you get in an accident, or whatever have you. You don’t get that back. Negotiate with 0 down.
I’ve been considering short leases because I turn and burn vehicles every year or 2 other than my diesel trucks. The better half and I like the “flavor”. A few options is nice.
The offer is for a limited on their site. So 449 if you get them to waive the down seems pretty decent?


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[Guppydriver]

I’ve never leased before, but I’ve read quite a bit about it. Everyone says the same. Never any down!! If you get in an accident, or whatever have you. You don’t get that back. Negotiate with 0 down.
I’ve been considering short leases because I turn and burn vehicles every year or 2 other than my diesel trucks. The better half and I like the “flavor”. A few options is nice.
The offer is for a limited on their site. So 449 if you get them to waive the down seems pretty decent?


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For a limited that would be great. If you go through new cars every few years, leasing is tailor made for you!

[j.mo]

For a limited that would be great. If you go through new cars every few years, leasing is tailor made for you!

So looking at a 36mo lease on an AT4 Yukon.
Msrp 75k. Can you negotiate the msrp down like you would on a purchase, say 10k off and then 1% of that with 0 down?
The lease on the site with 0 down is wanting $996 a month.
When you say 0 down, does that literally refer to just a signature and walk out? Or still pay the tax and license.
$1000 a month for a mid level Yukon with a 5.3 is absurd. SQ8 is only a few hundred more.
But I’d go for it for $650-700 a month with nothing but a signature.


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[BizzyC]

So looking at a 36mo lease on an AT4 Yukon.
Msrp 75k. Can you negotiate the msrp down like you would on a purchase, say 10k off and then 1% of that with 0 down?
The lease on the site with 0 down is wanting $996 a month.
When you say 0 down, does that literally refer to just a signature and walk out? Or still pay the tax and license.
$1000 a month for a mid level Yukon with a 5.3 is absurd. SQ8 is only a few hundred more.
But I’d go for it for $650-700 a month with nothing but a signature.


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The 1% rule of thumb is based on MSRP, so in the above example your goal would be $750 - that’s excluding any taxes, fees, etc.

In order to get to that number you need to discount MSRP either by dealer discounts or rebates to arrive at the amount to be leased. You also need to negotiate the money factor (interest rate) since dealers will pad this number to increase profits. Residual value is set by the banks.

Lastly, $0 down is usually talking about cap cost reduction and typically doesn’t include taxes, fees, first month...so you will have to pay something day one.

With all that said, going from $1000 to $650-$700 with $0 down is probably not happening.


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[larry_arizona]

Crazy thing on the 2021 Tahoe/yukons.

The 5.3l max tow package offers more towing capacity than the 6.2l max tow package

5.3l 4x4 max tow pkg 8200lbs
6.2l 4x4 max tow pkg 8000lbs


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[sandm]

With all that said, going from $1000 to $650-$700 with $0 down is probably not happening.


I'd normally say you never know until you try but with all the news on the chip shortage I would suspect a car dealer is going to say see ya and wait for the next higher priced sale as tahoe's are not rigs that I would say sit on the lot long anyway.

that said tho we did go, back in '97, to look at a full size. ended up leasing a gmc sonoma highrider zr2. fully decked out for the time. msrp was $28 and some change. they needed/wanted to move the truck. $189/mo plus $8 tax with zero down. walked out without paying a penny. 51month lease tho and 50k mileage allowance. fast forward 50 months later and residual was 13k. that year truck depreciated like crazy for some reason. book was 9. bank offered us 7 to buy it out at lease end. tempting but I drove the truck to the auction and handed over the keys. had we bought we would have been out of pocket almost 17k for a 28k msrp truck. heard they got 5 at the auction for it from a friend. key bank bent over on that one. doesn't happen often.

[larry_arizona]

$1000 for a Yukon AT4......ouch.

For reference, 2019 F150 XLT super crew 4x4 with $56k MSRP $0 down 36 month 12k Miles per year $318 a month, “A” plan to be fair.

My 2018 F150 XLT Super crew 4x4 $58k MSRP 0 down 36 month 15k per year is $445 a month, also
a plan.

Point is, year to year things like incentives and money factor make a big difference.


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[Guppydriver]

The 1% rule of thumb is based on MSRP, so in the above example your goal would be $750 - that’s excluding any taxes, fees, etc.

In order to get to that number you need to discount MSRP either by dealer discounts or rebates to arrive at the amount to be leased. You also need to negotiate the money factor (interest rate) since dealers will pad this number to increase profits. Residual value is set by the banks.

Lastly, $0 down is usually talking about cap cost reduction and typically doesn’t include taxes, fees, first month...so you will have to pay something day one.

With all that said, going from $1000 to $650-$700 with $0 down is probably not happening.


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Agree..

Especially on a domestic vehicle. Bottom line is, domestic SUV's don't lease well compared to European and Japanese vehicles. They just have a lower residual due to higher depreciation. The really great leases are "subsidized" leases in which the manufacturer or lender artificially raises the residual to lower your payment. There are a few reasons they do this. One is that it helps them move inventory. That's why you the best leases on sedans, it's a dying segment. Second is it gets lightly used vehicles back quickly to be able to certify as CPO's. There is a hot market for CPO vehicles and the majority of them are lease returns.

I personally would never lease a domestic SUV. It's a hot market with high depreciation. With strong purchase incentives for the domestics available and interest rates so low, I'd buy before I lease.

And yes....always negotiate the lowest price possible. The dealer doesn't lease vehicles. They sell them. Either to you or a leasing company. Your payment is dependent on two things and two things only. First, the difference between what you pay and the predetermined residual value based on MSRP. 2. Money Factor
(interest rate). That's it.

Let's say we both lease the same exact car with an MSRP of 50K. Suppose the residual is 60% of MSRP (the higher % number the better) or 35K. We simply pay the difference between what we bought the car for and the residual (paying for depreciation) while adding in the rent charge. So in the above scenario, let's say you go in informed with all incentives and negotiate a price of 42K for the vehicle. Meanwhile I go in uninformed, thinking "I'm not buying I'm leasing so I guess I don't negotiate" and I pay MSRP.
Over the lease tenure, you will pay 7K in depreciation plus the rent charge (money factor) ....(42k-35k=7k)...Remember the residual is ALWAYS based off MSRP.
I will pay 15K in depreciation plus the rent charge (50k-35k=15k). Over a 36 month lease, I would pay $222 more a month for the same car, with the same interest rate (MF), with the same residual.

Negotiate like you are buying it. You are...you're just buying it for the leasing company and renting it back.

[j.mo]

Ok. That’s exactly how I understood. Thanks! @guppydriver


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[Tylerrnemt]

$1000 for a Yukon AT4......ouch.

For reference, 2019 F150 XLT super crew 4x4 with $56k MSRP $0 down 36 month 12k Miles per year $318 a month, “A” plan to be fair.

My 2018 F150 XLT Super crew 4x4 $58k MSRP 0 down 36 month 15k per year is $445 a month, also
a plan.

Point is, year to year things like incentives and money factor make a big difference.


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This is very true when it comes to lease options (or purchasing for that matter)..... Last July I leased my '20 Trail Boss Silverado..... There were essentially NO trucks in inventory at any of the local dealers..... As supply was non-existent at the time, there were absolutely zero rebates or incentives being offered. The only rebate they had available was a "Lease loyalty" which I was not currently leasing so didn't qualify for. I was in a tight spot and needed to get into something quickly. I do have a GM "A buyer" discount which took nearly $8,000 off MSRP which was somewhere around $43,000. Zero down and 36 month/ 12k year came in right at $506 per month. On the other hand earlier in the year my brother had leased a '20 2500HD duramax crew cab LTZ.... MSRP was around $76,000. He had the same 36 month/12k miles per year lease at right around $600/month...... There were rebates/incentives like crazy at the time of his lease therefore he has nearly 2x more expensive truck with only $100 more a month payment.

[SONIC]

I finally bit the bullet and traded my 08 on Friday.
Picked up a 2015 Duramax Denali SRW, super nice truck and the price was OK. They gave me more for the trade than I think it's worth so I snagged it based mostly on that.
They had a 19 on the lot as well but honestly it was essentially identical to the 15 (newer engine obviously) but everything else was essentially the same other than the price, so '15 it is!

Already Deleted so no DEF or DPF crap to deal with so overall I'm a happy camper.
Plus it's white so it matches the boat, that's always a plus :cool:

[Tylerrnemt]

I finally bit the bullet and traded my 08 on Friday.
Picked up a 2015 Duramax Denali SRW, super nice truck and the price was OK. They gave me more for the trade than I think it's worth so I snagged it based mostly on that.
They had a 19 on the lot as well but honestly it was essentially identical to the 15 (newer engine obviously) but everything else was essentially the same other than the price, so '15 it is!

Already Deleted so no DEF or DPF crap to deal with so overall I'm a happy camper.
Plus it's white so it matches the boat, that's always a plus :cool:

That sounds like a heck of a truck! Congrats I think you will love it!!

[SONIC]

3 days old and already a wreck lol. Damn Ice storm

29429

[UNSTUCK]

I can think of worse wrecks to be in than an ice storm wreck.

[2in2out]

With the 2021 F-150 you get better tow capacity and you can power your home.

https://apple.news/AcDHCqMVERKC6OA9wbeBV8w

[SONIC]

Already at work.


29442

[Guppydriver]

I was doing some research last night and was blown away to see that a 2021 Ram 2500 Limited 4X4 Crew Cab with the Cummins had a max payload of 1880 pounds. I mean, that is average payload capability for new half ton. That motor must be a heavy bugger, the payloads go up about 900 pounds by going with a gas motor. I seriously don't see the point of going with the Ram 2500 over a 3500. Sure it tows more, but you have less payload capacity than a lot of half tons that pull up next to you. Both the GM HD's and the Superduty 3/4 ton models have a substantial increase in payload from their half ton offerings, but in a Ram, not so much. I know the Ram Limited is loaded up with heavy options (the lesser trims have more payload), but when I looked at Ford and GM, I made sure to look at their higher trims too and both were in the mid to high 2000's for a 3/4, which is where I would expect them to be.

[2in2out]

Already at work.


29442

Sounds like you chose well. This article shows the Duramax would be better at pulling up the ramp. The Ram couldn’t cut it.

https://apple.news/AtQv7iWPeSpW97yFtEvzIIA

[larry_arizona]

8000#+curb weight, that’s 3000# more than an F150.


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