Help me pick a tow vehicle

[eder10986]

So here’s the scenario. We just bought a 2017 Supra SA 400. We have a 2020 jeep GC with v8 hemos rated at 7200 max.

I’m well aware I’m maxed out. The vehicle pulls the boat just fine. But I’m maxed out and I can definitely feel the boat pulling. I just don’t trust it and don’t feel safe with it.

We’re keeping the GC so looking at buying a dedicated tow vehicle. Here are my “parameters”

Looking at something 2012 or older. Looking to spend 15k max. It’ll be a high miles vehicle but we’re also I need of a not so nice car to throw crap in and such since both of our current cars are not suited for that.

I genuinely need advice and DO NOT want this to turn into a tow vehicle debate and fight.

These are some I’ve been glancing at

GMC Yukon Denali
Chevy Silverado 1500
Chevy Tahoe
Nissan Armada
Ford F-150 platinum
Ram 1500-2500

Any help would be appreciated. Dry weight is 6900 I believe.


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[eder10986]

Well be towing 20 miles each way to lake


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[RC_Hinojosa]

Your looking for an older model ride that you don't care if you throw stuff into it.

A denali or platinum don't fit that mold.

Just get a 3/4 ton if it's gonna be an older model and you truly don't care about it getting dirty.

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[Prospersigman]

https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=566517358&zip=75078&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D75078%26city%3D Prosper%26startYear%3D2012%26incremental%3Dall%26e ndYear%3D2013%26modelCodeList%3DF250%26makeCodeLis t%3DFORD%26listingTypes%3DUSED%26sortBy%3Dderivedp riceASC%26location%3D%255Bobject%2BObject%255D%26s tate%3DTX%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Din clude%26relevanceConfig%3Ddefault%26searchRadius%3 D50%26isNewSearch%3Dfalse&listingTypes=USED&startYear=2012&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2013&modelCodeList=F250&makeCodeList=FORD&searchRadius=50&makeCode1=FORD&modelCode1=F250&clickType=listing

Something like this 2012 F250 4wheel drive crew cab would fit the bill and tow that boat no problem.

[eder10986]

You’re right about that. But still want something “nice”. In the price range I’m looking at ¾ trucks have over 200k miles or are very old and bland... maybe I’m being too picky


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[RC_Hinojosa]

Maybe you don't know what you really want [emoji2375]

..."It’ll be a high miles vehicle but we’re also I need of a not so nice car to throw crap in"

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[eder10986]

[emoji38][emoji38] I don’t know what I really want because I wasn’t planning on having to purchase another vehicle - sure, call it poor planning.

We’re on a waitlist on a slip on the lake. Once we get in in a year or two this won’t be a problem.

Anyways. I’d like something “nice” and something I can not baby like our boat and other cars.

Priority is of course safely towing the boat, but you’re right about not knowing what I want [emoji2357]


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[sandm]

Everyone can use a truck and lots will say get 3/4 ton but if you've made it this far without i'd stick to half tons. Maintenance and likely your insurance will be cheaper and 20min to ramp doesnt dictate a HD truck imo.
For us we are not brand whores so i would shop the big3 and find the best deal for age and mileage.

Lots of opinions on which one is better but reality is they ALL have pros and cons and any when taken care of will do what you need.

See what models fit your price, do some research on common issues with each model and start shopping CL and autotrader.

[eder10986]

Great points. Been researching and pricing the ones listed above plenty.

Another one I missed was an expedition.

I agree with your half ton quarter ton comment. I think I will stick with half ton should I get a truck.


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[Guppydriver]

Do you have a minimum seating requirement? Most pickups have 5 seats with a center console, although some have a front bench that technically seat six with the middle reserved for small kids on a short rides.

If you have a big family or frequently take a child’s friend or two along, you may want that third row a large SUV provides. I think the Expedition’s can be had for the cheapest and they have the higher tow ratings than the GM family of large utes.

[eder10986]

Right now it’s just the wife and I. Future will be different. So not a huge seating requirement. Friends will come of course. But they can drive themselves should they not fit.


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[Holdmybeer]

I would say look at an older 3/4 ton.
If you can afford diesel...do it. So much easier to pull against the water out of the ramp.
If you go Ford....avoid the 6.4L 2008-2011
If you go Dodge....watch for rust, wheel bearings, and 66rfe Trans.
If you go chevy/gmc....rust, ball joints, wheel bearings, avoid LLY (LBZ is your friend)

You have an SUV so why get another? Everyone needs a truck. Once you have 1 you will use it all the time. If you don't need 4x4 that will save you some $$$.

[Holdmybeer]

Just to add....this was my 5 minute search locally around Ohio.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventorylisting/viewDetailsFilterViewInventoryListing.action?zip=4 3064&inventorySearchWidgetType=BODYSTYLE&bodyTypeGroup=bg5&maxPrice=16000&sortDir=ASC&sourceContext=carGurusHomePageBody&distance=100&minPrice=0&sortType=DEAL_SCORE#listing=289576266

[MJHSupra]

Get a fun 2nd rig to drive. I got a 2004 Excursion Ltd 6.0 Diesel 4wd. Around 150k miles that had a rebuilt trans and bullet-proofed engine. Bought from a diesel mechanic. All Black Exterior. Bigger Wheels. Tint. Leveled. No Rust. Tan Leather Interior w/Captain chairs.

Kids call it the E-Wagon. I think it looks like a Swat Mobile. Now they call my 1/2 Chevy Pickup boring.

I love to drive that rig. Yes, it costs more for maintenance and repairs. Nails got two of my tires this past summer that could not be repaired - friggin roofers. Oil and fuel filter changes were more expensive, but an easy DYI. AC started blowing warmer air at the end of the summer, but I will get that addressed once it starts to get warmer in TN.

Crap breaks on older vehicles.

[sandm]

You have an SUV so why get another? Everyone needs a truck. Once you have 1 you will use it all the time. If you don't need 4x4 that will save you some $$$.

agree. i'd shop trucks not suv's. you have one already. trucks are great to have around. don't know your location but i'd pick up a 4x4 if it was my coin. you will give up some mileage or years over a 4x2 but even here in the desert we will always have a 4x4. we have used it several times on the ramp here and it's pretty shallow. took a drive out to paddleboard one day and needed 4x4 to get thru the dirt to the lake on a secluded trail.

if you stick to the 1/2 ton, I'd try to stick with a n/a engine, not the turbo 6's that are coming in the fords. the 6's run great but where yours will likely be sitting for longer periods, it's not good on the turbo bearings and can coke up causing failure when you are lugging the engine down. was something to watch in the imports I used to run.

[eder10986]

Great points. I think I’ll look at trucks then. I do want it to be a fun vehicle and we don’t currently have the versatility of a truck.

I’ve never owned diesel and the thought of owning one is scary [emoji38]

I’ll keep looking at F150
Silverado 1500-2500

I’ll try to find something fun. Maybe lifted. Large tires. Tinted. Etc. Why not.

Thanks fellas!

We’re located in 27278


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[brad460]

As a long long time Tundra owner (2010-2019) and regularly drive relatives Chevys, Fords, GMCs.... My 2019 Ram 1500 hands down best truck I’ve ever owned/driven.

It tows like a beast and drives like a Cadillac...

[eder10986]

A bit far away but thinking something like this [emoji2369]

https://www.alphaxtremeautoplex.com/inventory/view/13875289/2009-FORD-F150-PLATINUM-SUPERCREW/


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[sandm]

I’ll try to find something fun. Maybe lifted. Large tires. Why not.


for me, I'd keep in mind that anytime you move away from factory specs there are tradeoffs.
I'm all in for modifying cars and have done tons over the years but my experience has been doing so decreases reliability and increases maintenance costs longer term. not likely what you want to do on a vehicle that will see limited use and heavy operation when being used.

[eder10986]

Great point thanks!


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[Guppydriver]

As a long long time Tundra owner (2010-2019) and regularly drive relatives Chevys, Fords, GMCs.... My 2019 Ram 1500 hands down best truck I’ve ever owned/driven.

It tows like a beast and drives like a Cadillac...

Eco or Hemi?

Like a lot of mid to upper 40's guys....It's hard to shake the Dodge/Mopar stigma of my 80's youth. I'll tell you though, the Ram 1500 interior on the Limited is on par from a fit and finish standpoint with German luxury sedans (which I suppose it should be, since they both cost in the 60's-70's lol).

I'll be getting a new tow rig soon but want to wait to see the next gen Tundra before making a move, but I am giving the Ram a strong look. I would love a to tow with a 3/4 ton, but have no desire to daily drive a HD the rest (most) of the time as a daily driver.

[Ralphy]

Eco or Hemi?

Like a lot of mid to upper 40's guys....It's hard to shake the Dodge/Mopar stigma of my 80's youth. I'll tell you though, the Ram 1500 interior on the Limited is on par from a fit and finish standpoint with German luxury sedans (which I suppose it should be, since they both cost in the 60's-70's lol).

I'll be getting a new tow rig soon but want to wait to see the next gen Tundra before making a move, but I am giving the Ram a strong look. I would love a to tow with a 3/4 ton, but have no desire to daily drive a HD the rest (most) of the time as a daily driver.

I have a 2018 F150 3.5 eco, and had a Ram with a hemi before.
F150 - legit 18.5 mpg, but 6 mph towing (expressway 80mph) bumpy ride, I would say better made
Ram - 16 mpg, 10 towing. Awesome air suspension, drives smoother and is quieter on expressway.
Both have similar tow characteristics with Ram having a slight "feel" advantage due to the suspension. IMHO.
No experience with the Tundra.

[brad460]

Eco or Hemi?

Like a lot of mid to upper 40's guys....It's hard to shake the Dodge/Mopar stigma of my 80's youth. I'll tell you though, the Ram 1500 interior on the Limited is on par from a fit and finish standpoint with German luxury sedans (which I suppose it should be, since they both cost in the 60's-70's lol).

I'll be getting a new tow rig soon but want to wait to see the next gen Tundra before making a move, but I am giving the Ram a strong look. I would love a to tow with a 3/4 ton, but have no desire to daily drive a HD the rest (most) of the time as a daily driver.


Mine is a Hemi...I too wanted a new Tundra but it just wasn’t happening with Toyota. Went to buy a new Chevy 1500 Trail Boss but the interior was so basic and the 5.3L is a major turd. The salesman convinced me to drive a new Ram 1500 ( prior to this I would have never ever considered a Ram). One drive and I knew I had to have one. Called by neighbor/friend (who owns the other Dodge dealer in my area) and told him I was finally willing to buy a Ram from him! ;) He made me a deal I couldn’t refuse!

Hands down best half ton truck on the market...IMO

[russellsmojo]

I can hardly tell difference in tundra for like last 15 years. Is the next gen rumored to be different or just a new grille?


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[Guppydriver]

I can hardly tell difference in tundra for like last 15 years. Is the next gen rumored to be different or just a new grille?


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Next Tundra will be all new ...Probably a 2022 model year with a summer to fall 2021 intro. No more 5.7 V8. Likely a modified six cylinder turbo that Lexus uses with a Hybrid option. Current gen Tundra is by far the oldest platform on the market and feels like it. Toyota has had plenty of time and they better get it right with the stiff competition that exists.

[Josh828]

Tow rig is a diesel. Just my opinion, its what they are made for haha

Now I will be using a 1500, but GMCs 6.2L and 8 speed and the truck pulls great
I think the new 6.2 is pushing 460hp and like 620 lbs of torque

However I would hate to think I have to pull the boat with a 5.3
My work truck is a f150 with the v8 5.0 and it pulls terrible
no experience with ram or tundras lately

[RC_Hinojosa]

Tow rig is a diesel. Just my opinion, its what they are made for haha

Now I will be using a 1500, but GMCs 6.2L and 8 speed and the truck pulls great
I think the new 6.2 is pushing 460hp and like 620 lbs of torque

However I would hate to think I have to pull the boat with a 5.3
My work truck is a f150 with the v8 5.0 and it pulls terrible
no experience with ram or tundras lately

Not sure where you got your stats....pearler perhaps?

"naturally aspirated 420-hp 6.2-liter V-8 that makes a stout 460 lb-ft of torque and is paired with a fresh 10-speed automatic transmission"


https://www.caranddriver.com/gmc/sierra-1500




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[Josh828]

Not sure where you got your stats....pearler perhaps?

"naturally aspirated 420-hp 6.2-liter V-8 that makes a stout 460 lb-ft of torque and is paired with a fresh 10-speed automatic transmission"


https://www.caranddriver.com/gmc/sierra-1500




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You are right, I misread completely!
"
Type: 6.2L V-8 VVT DI with Dynamic Fuel Management and Stop/Start
Torque (lb.-ft. / Nm @ rpm): 460 / 623 @ 4100 (SAE certified) "

Heard they updated the power and didn't even question when I seen 460/623 but that's ft lbs and Nm

So the Gmc still has the same 420hp/460tq but now just with a 10 speed

[larry_arizona]

You are right, I misread completely!
"
Type:6.2L V-8 VVT DI with Dynamic Fuel Management and Stop/Start
Torque (lb.-ft. / Nm @ rpm):460 / 623 @ 4100 (SAE certified) "

Heard they updated the power and didn't even question when I seen 460/623 but that's ft lbs and Nm

So the Gmc still has the same 420hp/460tq but now just with a 10 speed

The Ford 10 speed is nice in the GM trucks.

The GM 5.3 has plenty of power, just from the factory, the throttle mapping is horrible.


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[Josh828]

The Ford 10 speed is nice in the GM trucks.

The GM 5.3 has plenty of power, just from the factory, the throttle mapping is horrible.


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You know something is good when it comes from the other company haha

I actually love the f150 just next will probably go into a F250

But OPs budget is 15K so really nothing we have been talking about is anywhere near that ball park...

[sandm]

The GM 5.3 has plenty of power


agreed.
I owned a '00 ford f150 7700 and it towed our tige across the country with no issues, at 8mpg's tho. normal it was 12. it was thirsty.
bought a '16 1500 4x4 and towed tige back across to slc and again no issues. averaged 12 towing and we get 17-18 town and 20+ highway. it's a solid motor and tows our r23 just fine. imo the weak link are the factory goodyear rubber. otherwise it's a solid tow rig with the z71 pack.

I drove the ram/f150 5.0 at the same time as the chevy and the ram must have had a different rear end ratio as the tach was 1000rpm's higher than either the ford or chevy and all I saw was a truck that would out tow either and do it with a higher overall daily fuel bill. I wanted to like the ford but the chevy hands down rode better on the beat up wisconsin roads...
fast forward to today and if I was buying I'd certainly give the ram another go.
tundra? dated and leave it for my conservative old man. nissan? do they still make a full size?? :)

[larry_arizona]

Nissan does still have the titan, sells about 25k per year.

They were supposed to rebadge the new Ram and sell it as the new titan but deal fell through.


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[larry_arizona]

Used trucks are going to skyrocket in price.

ALL new vehicle production is way down due to a massive semiconductor shortage industry wide.

This shortage is thanks to the pandemic and the mass increase to online gamers/gaming.

Can’t build trucks without semiconductors.

With new trucks being limited until Q3 2021, used trucks will bring a premium.


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[Surgical_ass]

Came from an early model titan. I was content with it until i bought the boat. The model i had was geared toward hwy use. Fell on its face on any kind of incline. Searched around and upgraded to a 2019 ram 2500 6.4. They made several changes for the better in 2019 Cab/body design but the biggest imo was the change from the 6spd to the 8spd transmission. I combined that with a 4:10 rear gearing and made it a towing beast. The ride that it has is better than any of the other vehicles we own by far. Told my wife the other day that if we hit the lottery i would upgrade the boat but keep the truck. I couldn't be happier with the ram.

[mcjimmy33]

Whatever you select, look at the payload sticker on the drivers side door for whatever vehicle you are selecting. You will be shocked to find out little they can actually tow with the options installed in the vehicle from the factory. Also check the hitch rating sticker on the back of the car. Ford notoriously only installs class III hitches which are not rated to pull your boat.

My .02, get a pickup, not the large SUVs. It will be tough to get the payload you need out of any SUV.

[jason1973]

Toyota - dated, plain, gas hog but reliable
Ford - i am still not sure about the 6cyl turbo and its longevity
Chevy - used to hate chevy but own two now (tahoe and colorado) and both have bee trouble free
Nissan - haven't heard a single good thing about any of them

i would say if you can find a silverado 5.3 or seirra with the 6.2 you would be happy.

[RC_Hinojosa]

Y'all can have a pissing match.

I'll take my 6.7L with 935 lb ft of torque and call it a day. [emoji1422] [emoji41]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210209/0e7c6754611379cd8b5fb4d97bbc5671.jpg

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[Josh828]

Y'all can have a pissing match.

I'll take my 6.7L with 935 lb ft of torque and call it a day. [emoji1422] [emoji41]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210209/0e7c6754611379cd8b5fb4d97bbc5671.jpg

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Big diesel truck scary though..

If I were OP I would be finding a diesel in my price range period. No such thing as a "tow rig" that isn't a diesel imo.

[eder10986]

I’ve been looking at some f250s in my price range. We’ll see what I come up with.

It was inevitable this would turn into even a tiny pissing match [emoji38]

It isn’t that I don’t want diesel. I’ve never owned one and I just don’t want to add something else to the learning curve. Call me a pansy if you must! [emoji38]

Also. Tapatalk spellcheck is whack!

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[sandm]

It isn’t that I don’t want diesel. I’ve never owned one and I just don’t want to add something else to the learning curve. Call me a pansy if you must!


don't worry eder. never owned a diesel and not likely I ever will so you're not alone in that camp :)

[996scott]

ditto, add me to that list.

[Branden967]

Ive never owned a diesel either, but the guys on here make a point. Towing steps up a notch with a diesel and they are not making these boats any smaller....

Don't flame me....but if they made a tundra in a diesel, id be first in line...

[larry_arizona]

Ive never owned a diesel either, but the guys on here make a point. Towing steps up a notch with a diesel and they are not making these boats any smaller....

Don't flame me....but if they made a tundra in a diesel, id be first in line...

Nissan has a diesel

EDIT: Nissan had a diesel, discontinued

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[Guppydriver]

Ive never owned a diesel either, but the guys on here make a point. Towing steps up a notch with a diesel and they are not making these boats any smaller....

Don't flame me....but if they made a tundra in a diesel, id be first in line...

I'd be right behind you...

Pretty certain they are going with Hybrid instead of a diesel for the next gen.

Of course, I'm not a big fan of buying ANY vehicle in its first year after a major redesign with new powertrains (even the mighty Toyota)

[Branden967]

I'd be right behind you...

Pretty certain they are going with Hybrid instead of a diesel for the next gen.

Of course, I'm not a big fan of buying ANY vehicle in its first year after a major redesign with new powertrains (even the mighty Toyota)

Ditto here. The tundra diesel seems like a pipe dream. Ive heard they are working to revamp their engines to with turbos for better gas mileage. They need to do something. As much as I absolutely love my tundra, its dated compared to the others.

[sandm]

my guess is toyota realizes they likely won't break into the big3 so produce a truck that has a small niche following and spend your development $$ and time on the truck that you own the class with. same reason dodge doesn't spend a lot of efforts on the dakota. it'll never be as successful as the taco so spend the $$ on what is now a two time truck of the year.
I see quite a bit of tv advertising for the f150 and silverado but can't remember the last ranger or canyon commercial I saw.

[DDNorCal]

29417
I'm with RC, once I started doing the math I couldn't figure out how I could tow a big beast, 4 adults and gear for a few days without going to a diesel. 6.7l purrs like a kitten towing at highway speeds. I barely touch 2000rpm's on the steepest grades going to Tahoe.

[2in2out]

Ditto here. The tundra diesel seems like a pipe dream. Ive heard they are working to revamp their engines to with turbos for better gas mileage. They need to do something. As much as I absolutely love my tundra, its dated compared to the others.

The gas consumption is due to the 4.66 gearing. That’s also why it will tow the space shuttle, but it can’t pass a gas station.

[jph3]

Nissan has a diesel

EDIT: Nissan had a diesel, discontinued

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Yeah stay away from that truck for sure. Drove one for almost a year... it was a mess.

[RC_Hinojosa]

29417
I'm with RC, once I started doing the math I couldn't figure out how I could tow a big beast, 4 adults and gear for a few days without going to a diesel. 6.7l purrs like a kitten towing at highway speeds. I barely touch 2000rpm's on the steepest grades going to Tahoe.Is that a Tremor? Very Nice sir! [emoji1430][emoji1430]

I drove a '21 in Dec that was a black lariat ultimate with lariat black package & Tremor package.

I almost pulled the trigger but I was also in a Ford research study that same month and got to see the 2022.

Very similar body-wise but with the new f150 interior...gonna hold off for now.






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[Prospersigman]

RC you sure about below?? I have a 2019 Super Duty and I am itching to pull the trigger on a 21 Tremor with the Blackout Package/Lariat Ultimate Package but really want the new F150 interior in the Super Duty. I have read multiple forums saying that it is 2023 before the SD gets the new interior?

I almost pulled the trigger but I was also in a Ford research study that same month and got to see the 2022.

Very similar body-wise but with the new f150 interior...gonna hold off for now.






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[larry_arizona]

The new F150 interior is awesome!!!!

On par with the new Ram interior.


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[RC_Hinojosa]

RC you sure about below?? I have a 2019 Super Duty and I am itching to pull the trigger on a 21 Tremor with the Blackout Package/Lariat Ultimate Package but really want the new F150 interior in the Super Duty. I have read multiple forums saying that it is 2023 before the SD gets the new interior?

I almost pulled the trigger but I was also in a Ford research study that same month and got to see the 2022.

Very similar body-wise but with the new f150 interior...gonna hold off for now.






Sent from my Note 9 using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]I'm very certain it will be '22.

The '21 has the same exact interior as my '17... that's mostly why I couldn't do it.

Points of contention with '22....the frontend looks 'softened'....less stamped/extruded looking. It looked pretty weak sauce in regular Lariat trim but looks better with Tremor package or higher level trim. I will say the new LED headlights look pretty good.

The rear bumper has 'bumper steps' like the GM trucks....this was universally panned by everyone in the study and will not likely make production.

The truck also had box cut out steps near front of truck bed...like GMC. This was a mixed bag...some liked it, some didn't.

I did not. I told the lead researcher that if you can't innovate beyond what already exists, don't bother. I'm 6'1 and unless it's a 2wd, it's not comfortable to use. I'd rather use my tailgate step.

The other trucks on display for comparison were a Dodge Laramie, GMC AT-4 and a Chevy equivalent (LTZ?).

I wish I had some pictures to share but they put our phones in lockers and we had to go through metal detectors.

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[RC_Hinojosa]

The new F150 interior is awesome!!!!

On par with the new Ram interior.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNot if you get into them back to back.

The dodge may have the Tesla orientation but the quality and finish is much higher in the new Ford.

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[larry_arizona]

Not if you get into them back to back.

The dodge may have the Tesla orientation but the quality and finish is much higher in the new Ford.

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Perhaps I need to sit in the Ram again.


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[Guppydriver]

I'm very certain it will be '22.

The '21 has the same exact interior as my '17... that's mostly why I couldn't do it.

Points of contention with '22....the frontend looks 'softened'....less stamped/extruded looking. It looked pretty weak sauce in regular Lariat trim but looks better with Tremor package or higher level trim. I will say the new LED headlights look pretty good.

The rear bumper has 'bumper steps' like the GM trucks....this was universally panned by everyone in the study and will not likely make production.

The truck also had box cut out steps near front of truck bed...like GMC. This was a mixed bag...some liked it, some didn't.

I did not. I told the lead researcher that if you can't innovate beyond what already exists, don't bother. I'm 6'1 and unless it's a 2wd, it's not comfortable to use. I'd rather use my tailgate step.

The other trucks on display for comparison were a Dodge Laramie, GMC AT-4 and a Chevy equivalent (LTZ?).

I wish I had some pictures to share but they put our phones in lockers and we had to go through metal detectors.

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GM Bumper corner steps are brilliant! What's not to like? Simple solution... elegantly and permanently designed into the flow of the truck. I always thought they were not copied to do patents infringements.

Also...I frequently find myself jumping on the rear tire to get something that's rolled to the front of my pickup bed. With a HD bed being so long, I like the idea of having a quick step up to access the front of the bed without opening my tailgate and making the climb. I do agree that they are not aesthetically pleasing though.

I'm much more of FoMoCo fan than Dod....errrr.. Ram, but if the (interior only) F150 attention to detail and fit and finish are superior to to Ram's Limited and Longhorn trims, it will be a sight to see. My friend has a Longhorn, and the little things like the leather wrapped grab handles and saddle storage rear seat backs were unreal. The limited is more my style, but I really did appreciate that interior.

Rumor has it that GM was blindsided by the quality of the Ram interior but didn't want to delay the release of their all new half ton models when released a few years ago. That's why smart money says look for an interior update very soon similar to what you see in the GM full size SUV's. There is going to be some impressive options for buyers moving forward in both the half ton and HD markets, and to be fair, there should be with list prices soaring ever closer to six digits.

[RC_Hinojosa]

GM Bumper corner steps are brilliant! What's not to like? Simple solution... elegantly and permanently designed into the flow of the truck. I always thought they were not copied to do patents infringements.

Also...I frequently find myself jumping on the rear tire to get something that's rolled to the front of my pickup bed. With a HD bed being so long, I like the idea of having a quick step up to access the front of the bed without opening my tailgate and making the climb. I do agree that they are not aesthetically pleasing though.

I'm much more of FoMoCo fan than Dod....errrr.. Ram, but if the (interior only) F150 attention to detail and fit and finish are superior to to Ram's Limited and Longhorn trims, it will be a sight to see. My friend has a Longhorn, and the little things like the leather wrapped grab handles and saddle storage rear seat backs were unreal. The limited is more my style, but I really did appreciate that interior.

Rumor has it that GM was blindsided by the quality of the Ram interior but didn't want to delay the release of their all new half ton models when released a few years ago. That's why smart money says look for an interior update very soon similar to what you see in the GM full size SUV's. There is going to be some impressive options for buyers moving forward in both the half ton and HD markets, and to be fair, there should be with list prices soaring ever closer to six digits.

The design of the rear bumper screamed GM and did not jive with the rear of the truck. The concensus was that the steps (even if just in appearance) conveyed less strength in the bumper.

I do the tire thing occasionally myself but instead of a hideous cutout, I suggested to offer an actuated step as an option like the power running boards. Something that tucked close to the rocker panel so you didn't know it was there till you needed it.

One of the things I noticed between the Ford and Ram interiors was the Ford dash had more soft touch surfaces and hefty switchgear. The Ram dash seemed to be 'plasticky'.

I also found the landscape orientation of the main screen to be more ergo friendly.

I'm sure GM will have an interior update soon, the GMC & Chevy received the lowest marks on interior.

All of the trucks in the study were between $70-73K so the game boy size screens in the GM twins were difficult to swallow with such little price variation.

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[Tylerrnemt]

Just my .2 worth but I've towed several different sized boats with several of the vehicles you are considering.

First set up I had was a 24ft I/O with a 454 big block.... This was a pretty good sized boat and I had a 2003 Z71 Tahoe at the time with 5.3. Power wise it towed that boat "decent". Suspension wise boat little much and I ended up trading it in on what Chevrolet called a 1500HD. This was essentially a 3/4 ton truck that had the 6.0 gas engine but a slight smaller frame than the 2500HD. This was a night and day difference and handled that boat with ease..... However it got 9mpg whether I was towing or not. Moral of this story is the Tahoe (Denali, or suburban) was enough to do the job but wouldn't be my first choice for you in this situation.

Fast forward I sold that boat and had a Corvette for a while and no longer need that 3/4 ton truck so I was back in a Newer body style Tahoe (2007) still with the 5.3 V8. I ended up picking the Mobius LSV which was much smaller than the old I/O i had before. The Tahoe handled this boat very well... It was a very good match boat in power and suspension for that small LSV (21ft and small overall compared to the newer wakeboats). You're Supra on the other hand is a far bigger and heavier boat than that was.... So another vote against the Tahoe/Suburban for your situation.

While still owning the LSV I traded the Tahoe in on a 2013 F150 FX4 with the 3.5 Ecoboost. The ecoboost was PHENOMENAL compared to the 5.3 GM motor and I absolutely loved the power it had. In fact I loved everything about that truck.... At first. The Fx4 package during those years was killer.... heated and cooled seats, no chrome (fully paint matched bumpers), HID headlights, Navigation... Basically all the bells and whistles. It was an awesome overall truck.... EXCEPT the ecoboost is notorious for having MANY mechanical and expensive issues. When I first was looking for one I was sold on the Ecoboost and found a few. Of the 5 I looked at 3 had had previous work done that including timing chain replacement at around 60,000 miles based on carfax history. The one I ended up buying threw a code for turbo issues before I even got delivery and a turbo was replaced by the dealer to the tune of nearly $4,000. This was covered by them thankfully and I thought all issues were squared away..... I had the truck for about 2 years and all hell broke loose again. It started having misc. turbo underboost conditions that resulted in loss of nearly all power.(Not good when towing). I had in the meantime upgraded the LSV to a brand new MOJO and the ecoboost when working correctly towed it very well.... however it got to the point that everytime I would tow the Mojo I would get a CEL and loose all boost. Ultimately this ended up being a stretched timing chain and was nearly $6,000 dollars worth of work to replace. Sadly I ended up trading this truck in and leased a 2020 Silverado Trail Boss Custom.

Moral of this story... As much as I LOVED my Fx4 Ecoboost I would NEVER own another ecoboost that wasn't under warranty!!! I soooooo wished I would have went with the V8 non-turbo optioned FX4 instead.

I do love my Trail Boss Silverado and it does a good job of towing the Mojo but it lacks all the bell's and whistles the FX4 had. And power from the twin turbo was night and day off the line than the Silverado. However, I never feel like I don't have enough to get the job done with the Silverado.

Just my experiences with the above.
In your situation I would look very hard at:
Silverado 3/4 ton #1
Fx4 F150 V8 only #2
Silverado 1/2 ton #3

I would avoid any of the SUV's

[Tylerrnemt]

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[Guppydriver]

Just my .2 worth but I've towed several different sized boats with several of the vehicles you are considering.

First set up I had was a 24ft I/O with a 454 big block.... This was a pretty good sized boat and I had a 2003 Z71 Tahoe at the time with 5.3. Power wise it towed that boat "decent". Suspension wise boat little much and I ended up trading it in on what Chevrolet called a 1500HD. This was essentially a 3/4 ton truck that had the 6.0 gas engine but a slight smaller frame than the 2500HD. This was a night and day difference and handled that boat with ease..... However it got 9mpg whether I was towing or not. Moral of this story is the Tahoe (Denali, or suburban) was enough to do the job but wouldn't be my first choice for you in this situation.

Fast forward I sold that boat and had a Corvette for a while and no longer need that 3/4 ton truck so I was back in a Newer body style Tahoe (2007) still with the 5.3 V8. I ended up picking the Mobius LSV which was much smaller than the old I/O i had before. The Tahoe handled this boat very well... It was a very good match boat in power and suspension for that small LSV (21ft and small overall compared to the newer wakeboats). You're Supra on the other hand is a far bigger and heavier boat than that was.... So another vote against the Tahoe/Suburban for your situation.

While still owning the LSV I traded the Tahoe in on a 2013 F150 FX4 with the 3.5 Ecoboost. The ecoboost was PHENOMENAL compared to the 5.3 GM motor and I absolutely loved the power it had. In fact I loved everything about that truck.... At first. The Fx4 package during those years was killer.... heated and cooled seats, no chrome (fully paint matched bumpers), HID headlights, Navigation... Basically all the bells and whistles. It was an awesome overall truck.... EXCEPT the ecoboost is notorious for having MANY mechanical and expensive issues. When I first was looking for one I was sold on the Ecoboost and found a few. Of the 5 I looked at 3 had had previous work done that including timing chain replacement at around 60,000 miles based on carfax history. The one I ended up buying threw a code for turbo issues before I even got delivery and a turbo was replaced by the dealer to the tune of nearly $4,000. This was covered by them thankfully and I thought all issues were squared away..... I had the truck for about 2 years and all hell broke loose again. It started having misc. turbo underboost conditions that resulted in loss of nearly all power.(Not good when towing). I had in the meantime upgraded the LSV to a brand new MOJO and the ecoboost when working correctly towed it very well.... however it got to the point that everytime I would tow the Mojo I would get a CEL and loose all boost. Ultimately this ended up being a stretched timing chain and was nearly $6,000 dollars worth of work to replace. Sadly I ended up trading this truck in and leased a 2020 Silverado Trail Boss Custom.

Moral of this story... As much as I LOVED my Fx4 Ecoboost I would NEVER own another ecoboost that wasn't under warranty!!! I soooooo wished I would have went with the V8 non-turbo optioned FX4 instead.

I do love my Trail Boss Silverado and it does a good job of towing the Mojo but it lacks all the bell's and whistles the FX4 had. And power from the twin turbo was night and day off the line than the Silverado. However, I never feel like I don't have enough to get the job done with the Silverado.

Just my experiences with the above.
In your situation I would look very hard at:
Silverado 3/4 ton #1
Fx4 F150 V8 only #2
Silverado 1/2 ton #3

I would avoid any of the SUV's

That trailboss is gorgeous Tyler...

Is it a 6.2 or 5.3? I bet the 6.2L in the Silverado/Sierra would give you close to the power and pull of the Ford EcoBoost. I've also heard fabulous things about the baby duramax. Of course it doesn't have the highest tow ratings and once again we are running into payload issues with the half ton (hence my other thread).

[DDNorCal]

@RC no, I did not pull the trigger on the Tremor, they were just coming out and I did not want to reduce the tow/cargo capacity. It's a 2020 F350 Lariat with the sport package.

It is a beast with massive torque. Interesting about the new interior coming out. I'll have to keep an eye out.

[Josh828]

@RC no, I did not pull the trigger on the Tremor, they were just coming out and I did not want to reduce the tow/cargo capacity. It's a 2020 F350 Lariat with the sport package.

It is a beast with massive torque. Interesting about the new interior coming out. I'll have to keep an eye out.

I built a new "work truck" the other day F350 swb lariat with the black out package and few other options.
Dang thing ended up being almost the same price as a king ranch

but if there is a new interior about to come out might have to hold out as well.

I also think its funny all these debate over which 1500 however it seems we are all on the same page about the new Powerstrokes

[larry_arizona]

I just can’t get around daily driving a 3/4ton +,

Equipped properly, the F150 EB tows a Supra fine. Heck Wake 9 towed an SL 4300 miles on an 18 F150 3.5EB 10 speed.

I pulled my Supra with the same truck and never felt underpowered, had no fear passing people and only occasionally felt the boat push back against the truck. 3000 total miles trailering.

The 21 F150 3.5EB is now 400hp/500ft lbs, you can get your payload in the low 2100 range, new semi floating axle is heavy duty, now that I figured out you can get a proper WD hitch for a boat trailer makes me happier, also you can get the bigger brakes on the F150.

1/2 ton is doable, is 3/4 ton better? Absolutely for towing, Daily Driver? I can only answer that for me, no thanks.


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[RC_Hinojosa]

@RC no, I did not pull the trigger on the Tremor, they were just coming out and I did not want to reduce the tow/cargo capacity. It's a 2020 F350 Lariat with the sport package.

It is a beast with massive torque. Interesting about the new interior coming out. I'll have to keep an eye out.

Looks good either way. I was zooming in on your bedside and thought I could make out Tremor...but it must be an FX4 decal.

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[DDNorCal]

Yes, FX4 decal.

@Larry agree it is not a great daily driver. I am fortunate enough that it is not. I agree that you can get by with a f150 in the right circumstances. I am not trying to get into the weeds about cargo capacity, lord knows I have exceeded it earlier in life, but with a 4x4 and not wanting to push the envelope when I am towing with 4-5 adults and a weeks worth of gear, I went with overkill so I would not have to ever worry about over weighting.

[eder10986]

Just my .2 worth but I've towed several different sized boats with several of the vehicles you are considering.

First set up I had was a 24ft I/O with a 454 big block.... This was a pretty good sized boat and I had a 2003 Z71 Tahoe at the time with 5.3. Power wise it towed that boat "decent". Suspension wise boat little much and I ended up trading it in on what Chevrolet called a 1500HD. This was essentially a 3/4 ton truck that had the 6.0 gas engine but a slight smaller frame than the 2500HD. This was a night and day difference and handled that boat with ease..... However it got 9mpg whether I was towing or not. Moral of this story is the Tahoe (Denali, or suburban) was enough to do the job but wouldn't be my first choice for you in this situation.

Fast forward I sold that boat and had a Corvette for a while and no longer need that 3/4 ton truck so I was back in a Newer body style Tahoe (2007) still with the 5.3 V8. I ended up picking the Mobius LSV which was much smaller than the old I/O i had before. The Tahoe handled this boat very well... It was a very good match boat in power and suspension for that small LSV (21ft and small overall compared to the newer wakeboats). You're Supra on the other hand is a far bigger and heavier boat than that was.... So another vote against the Tahoe/Suburban for your situation.

While still owning the LSV I traded the Tahoe in on a 2013 F150 FX4 with the 3.5 Ecoboost. The ecoboost was PHENOMENAL compared to the 5.3 GM motor and I absolutely loved the power it had. In fact I loved everything about that truck.... At first. The Fx4 package during those years was killer.... heated and cooled seats, no chrome (fully paint matched bumpers), HID headlights, Navigation... Basically all the bells and whistles. It was an awesome overall truck.... EXCEPT the ecoboost is notorious for having MANY mechanical and expensive issues. When I first was looking for one I was sold on the Ecoboost and found a few. Of the 5 I looked at 3 had had previous work done that including timing chain replacement at around 60,000 miles based on carfax history. The one I ended up buying threw a code for turbo issues before I even got delivery and a turbo was replaced by the dealer to the tune of nearly $4,000. This was covered by them thankfully and I thought all issues were squared away..... I had the truck for about 2 years and all hell broke loose again. It started having misc. turbo underboost conditions that resulted in loss of nearly all power.(Not good when towing). I had in the meantime upgraded the LSV to a brand new MOJO and the ecoboost when working correctly towed it very well.... however it got to the point that everytime I would tow the Mojo I would get a CEL and loose all boost. Ultimately this ended up being a stretched timing chain and was nearly $6,000 dollars worth of work to replace. Sadly I ended up trading this truck in and leased a 2020 Silverado Trail Boss Custom.

Moral of this story... As much as I LOVED my Fx4 Ecoboost I would NEVER own another ecoboost that wasn't under warranty!!! I soooooo wished I would have went with the V8 non-turbo optioned FX4 instead.

I do love my Trail Boss Silverado and it does a good job of towing the Mojo but it lacks all the bell's and whistles the FX4 had. And power from the twin turbo was night and day off the line than the Silverado. However, I never feel like I don't have enough to get the job done with the Silverado.

Just my experiences with the above.
In your situation I would look very hard at:
Silverado 3/4 ton #1
Fx4 F150 V8 only #2
Silverado 1/2 ton #3

I would avoid any of the SUV's

Awesome info. Thanks so much!


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[rdlangston13]

While still owning the LSV I traded the Tahoe in on a 2013 F150 FX4 with the 3.5 Ecoboost. The ecoboost was PHENOMENAL compared to the 5.3 GM motor and I absolutely loved the power it had. In fact I loved everything about that truck.... At first. The Fx4 package during those years was killer.... heated and cooled seats, no chrome (fully paint matched bumpers), HID headlights, Navigation... Basically all the bells and whistles. It was an awesome overall truck.... EXCEPT the ecoboost is notorious for having MANY mechanical and expensive issues. When I first was looking for one I was sold on the Ecoboost and found a few. Of the 5 I looked at 3 had had previous work done that including timing chain replacement at around 60,000 miles based on carfax history. The one I ended up buying threw a code for turbo issues before I even got delivery and a turbo was replaced by the dealer to the tune of nearly $4,000. This was covered by them thankfully and I thought all issues were squared away..... I had the truck for about 2 years and all hell broke loose again. It started having misc. turbo underboost conditions that resulted in loss of nearly all power.(Not good when towing). I had in the meantime upgraded the LSV to a brand new MOJO and the ecoboost when working correctly towed it very well.... however it got to the point that everytime I would tow the Mojo I would get a CEL and loose all boost. Ultimately this ended up being a stretched timing chain and was nearly $6,000 dollars worth of work to replace. Sadly I ended up trading this truck in and leased a 2020 Silverado Trail Boss Custom.

Moral of this story... As much as I LOVED my Fx4 Ecoboost I would NEVER own another ecoboost that wasn't under warranty!!! I soooooo wished I would have went with the V8 non-turbo optioned FX4 instead.


The different experiences of people with ecoboosts amaze me. I have a 2015 Ford Expedition we bought brand new with the first generation 3.5 ecoboost with over 100,000 miles that was used as our primary tow vehicle for at first out LSV and later on our Mojo and the only issue we have had was a water pump leak. Other than that it has been rock solid. Oil changed every 5,000 miles with mostly Mobil 1 and a couple of times Penzoil Platinum and always with a motorcraft filter. A little over a year ago we added a 2018 F150 with the 2nd generation ecoboost and it was our primary tow vehicle all last summer with the Mojo and so far it has had 0 engine issues. It does do something funky with the memory mirrors ever once in a while but power train has been solid. It only has like 48,000 miles on it though so like I said small sample size.

My dad has a 2013 F150 ecoboost with around 100,000 miles and he did have a low boost code a couple weeks ago. Took it to the dealer in Nevada as he was there for work and they quoted him $2,000+ to replace turbos! He declined and brought it home and we found a small tear in the blow off valve diaphragm. $35 for the part and $25 over night shipping and he was back on the road for $60 bucks problem free.


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[Tylerrnemt]

The different experiences of people with ecoboosts amaze me. I have a 2015 Ford Expedition we bought brand new with the first generation 3.5 ecoboost with over 100,000 miles that was used as our primary tow vehicle for at first out LSV and later on our Mojo and the only issue we have had was a water pump leak. Other than that it has been rock solid. Oil changed every 5,000 miles with mostly Mobil 1 and a couple of times Penzoil Platinum and always with a motorcraft filter. A little over a year ago we added a 2018 F150 with the 2nd generation ecoboost and it was our primary tow vehicle all last summer with the Mojo and so far it has had 0 engine issues. It does do something funky with the memory mirrors ever once in a while but power train has been solid. It only has like 48,000 miles on it though so like I said small sample size.

My dad has a 2013 F150 ecoboost with around 100,000 miles and he did have a low boost code a couple weeks ago. Took it to the dealer in Nevada as he was there for work and they quoted him $2,000+ to replace turbos! He declined and brought it home and we found a small tear in the blow off valve diaphragm. $35 for the part and $25 over night shipping and he was back on the road for $60 bucks problem free.


That is good info for sure!

I truly wish that was the case for me though!!! I really loved my Ecoboost.... I had read all the horror stories before buying it and like you just kind of assumed they were way overrated and I wouldn't actually have any of the issues people described. So much so that I was still only seeking out Ecoboost optioned trucks.

Come to find out after a couple years of ownership I had nearly ALL of the issues I had read horror stories about.... The previous owner had drilled the hole in the IC, I installed a oil catch can (another miracle cure supposedly) I did have a rip on the BOV and replaced this just as you had mentioned with a new $25 dollar part.... Didn't fix my issues..... Also I regapped and replaced spark plugs as another miracle "fix" for all the problems listed on the forums. Still not fixed. Then after ALL of those other issues that became real life problems were addressed I still ended up with the "dreaded timing chain issue". So ultimately every single one of the "problems" you read about on the forums happened to my EB.

When the truck was running good it was absolutely my favorite vehicle I've ever owned... And the EB is fantastic at towing!!!
Maybe buying a new one and doing all the maintenance yourself and knowing the history is the only way to go EB? But my experience on the other hand has soured me to the idea of ever buying another.

[larry_arizona]

Going to say many issues were resolved on the Gen2 3.5EB.

The 2.7EB is also fast as F!!! 325/400 is a fun ride. 0-60 and 1/4 mile is within .1sec of the 3.5EB.

I drive one of each and the 2.7 feels snappier due to the hotvee configuration. Zero turbo lag.


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[Tylerrnemt]

That trailboss is gorgeous Tyler...

Is it a 6.2 or 5.3? I bet the 6.2L in the Silverado/Sierra would give you close to the power and pull of the Ford EcoBoost. I've also heard fabulous things about the baby duramax. Of course it doesn't have the highest tow ratings and once again we are running into payload issues with the half ton (hence my other thread).

Thanks!!

It's only a 5.3..... You're right this one is only a lease, but I'm thinking about buying a new one when the lease is up with the 6.2.... The 6.0 I had in my old 1500HD had a ton of power.

[Tylerrnemt]

Going to say many issues were resolved on the Gen2 3.5EB.

The 2.7EB is also fast as F!!! 325/400 is a fun ride. 0-60 and 1/4 mile is within .1sec of the 3.5EB.

I drive one of each and the 2.7 feels snappier due to the hotvee configuration. Zero turbo lag.


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I heard the same thing about the 13+ eco's being better than the 11-12s... .Supposedly all the timing chain and sticking turbos issues were fixed..... Not the case in my experience. All of those issues with less than 78,000 miles on the truck.

[larry_arizona]

2017 was when the Gen2 3.5 EB was launched.


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[rdlangston13]

I heard the same thing about the 13+ eco's being better than the 11-12s... .Supposedly all the timing chain and sticking turbos issues were fixed..... Not the case in my experience. All of those issues with less than 78,000 miles on the truck.

There are still people with gen 2 timing chain/phaser issues. Supposedly a lot of it is due to narrow oil ports that provide the oil to the phasers and chains and if you dont use quality oil or don't chain it often enough (never go off of the oil life monitor) they can get clogged with gunk and restrict the flow. This may be why there are so many repeat offenders. Adding a bit a sea foam to the crank case a few hundred miles prior to changing the oil can help clean some of this stuff out. I am warrantied for 100,000 miles so I just hope if mine rattles it does it before then.

I am also not sold on the start/stop technology, especially on turbo engines that generate a lot of heat. I just don't like the idea of shutting off the oil flow every time you come to a stop. I turn that crap off every time I get in the truck. I need to buy the auto stop eliminator but I have a hard time stomaching $100 for something I can do by pressing a button.

[larry_arizona]

You can disable the start stop a couple ways for nearly free.

Unplug this under dash. Works great, just need to plug in when you hook up a trailer.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210212/6327f0c04b8d6bf2c4e81448a4668dfb.jpg


The other low cost option is plug in a 7 to 4 pin converter into the trailer plug port. Only risk is some dbag stealing it.


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[Tylerrnemt]

There are still people with gen 2 timing chain/phaser issues. Supposedly a lot of it is due to narrow oil ports that provide the oil to the phasers and chains and if you dont use quality oil or don't chain it often enough (never go off of the oil life monitor) they can get clogged with gunk and restrict the flow. This may be why there are so many repeat offenders. Adding a bit a sea foam to the crank case a few hundred miles prior to changing the oil can help clean some of this stuff out. I am warrantied for 100,000 miles so I just hope if mine rattles it does it before then.

I am also not sold on the start/stop technology, especially on turbo engines that generate a lot of heat. I just don't like the idea of shutting off the oil flow every time you come to a stop. I turn that crap off every time I get in the truck. I need to buy the auto stop eliminator but I have a hard time stomaching $100 for something I can do by pressing a button.

The phaser thing is what I ultimately boiled down as the primary issue also...there was a lot of discussion also that there were some metal shavings left in the phasers from the manufacturing process that clogged the screens from new leading to delayed stretching of the chain as a result of low oil pressure in the phasers on startup. Makes sense that changing oil frequently would prolong the effects of this. That was another reason why I didn't want to have the ford dealer do the new timing chain install.... Also a reason why I think this was a recurring problem on some trucks....The TSB for stretched timing chains only included replacement of the chain itself and not the phasers.... Therefore leading to continued stretch on the new chain until the same problem resurfaced.

This also leads me to think that owning from new and staying on top of oil changes etc is why a lot of people never have issues with there EBs and other owners and in my case buying used may increase risk of issues if the PO wasn't diligent. Again.... I will never own an EB out of warranty especially if it was a used one.

[larry_arizona]

Sounds like the 2007+ GM DOD lifter failures right at 100k miles. This was when GM had the 100k mile warranty still.


I would rather replace chain and phasers than DOD lifters and the related damage from a failed lifter.

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[sandm]

I am also not sold on the start/stop technology, especially on turbo engines that generate a lot of heat. I just don't like the idea of shutting off the oil flow every time you come to a stop.

back in my turbo4 days, one of the first things I installed on the 3 turbo'ed motors was a turbo timer. not sure if it did anything BUT one of the worst things you can do to a turbo is shutting off while hot..
took the 2nd evo to a dyno event and it's NO JOKE how hot they get seeing them spooled up with the hood up.

[larry_arizona]

back in my turbo4 days, one of the first things I installed on the 3 turbo'ed motors was a turbo timer. not sure if it did anything BUT one of the worst things you can do to a turbo is shutting off while hot..
took the 2nd evo to a dyno event and it's NO JOKE how hot they get seeing them spooled up with the hood up.

For sure a bad idea to shut off a hot turbo. The oil will coke on the turbo.

I try and stay out of boost while idling through my neighborhood.

But I disabled the start/stop because it’s down right annoying as F!!!!


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[brad460]

The phaser thing is what I ultimately boiled down as the primary issue also...there was a lot of discussion also that there were some metal shavings left in the phasers from the manufacturing process that clogged the screens from new leading to delayed stretching of the chain as a result of low oil pressure in the phasers on startup. Makes sense that changing oil frequently would prolong the effects of this. That was another reason why I didn't want to have the ford dealer do the new timing chain install.... Also a reason why I think this was a recurring problem on some trucks....The TSB for stretched timing chains only included replacement of the chain itself and not the phasers.... Therefore leading to continued stretch on the new chain until the same problem resurfaced.

This also leads me to think that owning from new and staying on top of oil changes etc is why a lot of people never have issues with there EBs and other owners and in my case buying used may increase risk of issues if the PO wasn't diligent. Again.... I will never own an EB out of warranty especially if it was a used one.

One of my co-workers 2018 F150 had this issue with the V6 turbo- Apparently they had to lift the body off the frame to repair the cam phaser issue.

[Tylerrnemt]

One of my co-workers 2018 F150 had this issue with the V6 turbo- Apparently they had to lift the body off the frame to repair the cam phaser issue.

Hmmm sounds like maybe the Gen 2s are starting to get old enough to see the same old issues pop up

[j.mo]

I avoid turbo vehicles unless I don’t have a choice.
My diesels are obviously turbo, but I’ll take a good old fashion gas sucking 6.2 before I ever take a vehicle with turbos. Turbos are just potential issues.


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[rdlangston13]

I avoid turbo vehicles unless I don’t have a choice.
My diesels are obviously turbo, but I’ll take a good old fashion gas sucking 6.2 before I ever take a vehicle with turbos. Turbos are just potential issues.


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The main issues with the EB are cam phaser and timing chain stretch, none of which has anything to do with the turbos.

[IndySmittySurf]

I had the EXACT same dilemma last year. Had a Grand Cherokee ecodiesel that we absolutely loved, but just too dangerous towing the loaded down Craz with lead. I started off by looking at dedicated tow vehicles like you, but after driving the new Ram 1500 I had to have one. Traded the GC in and now the Ram is my daily driver. Best thing I could have done.

I’m not FCA biased, it was just a coincidence that we loved the Ram over the other options.

[eder10986]

We’re keeping the jeep because it’s my baby! But in the works at actually picking up a new tow vehicle within a week....will post updated.

All I’ve gotta say is trucks that are a great deal and good looking sell within hours. It’s nuts!


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[larry_arizona]

We’re keeping the jeep because it’s my baby! But in the works at actually picking up a new tow vehicle within a week....will post updated.

All I’ve gotta say is trucks that are a great deal and good looking sell within hours. It’s nuts!


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Used truck demand is crazy, all the people who got boats,travel trailers and ATV’s during the pandemic need a tow vehicle.

Compound that with the semi conductor shortage (thanks online gamers) and the extreme truck manufacturing slow down projected until the end of summer and it’s the perfect storm for used trucks.

I checked Carvana yesterday and my current leased 2018 F150, I was offered $1500 more than the current buyout. They will pick it up, pay off Ford credit and cut me a check for $1500


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[eder10986]

Very interesting about Carvana Larry


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[larry_arizona]

Latest 2021 F150 commercial shows it towing a black Supra SE


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[2in2out]

Latest 2021 F150 commercial shows it towing a black Supra SE


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I couldn’t tell if it was the SA or SE. I paused the commercial several times trying to figure it out. It seems Ford finally figured out the disconnect between receiver ability and vehicle ability.

[larry_arizona]

I couldn’t tell if it was the SA or SE. I paused the commercial several times trying to figure it out. It seems Ford finally figured out the disconnect between receiver ability and vehicle ability.

I assumed SE based on that SA would be a 2019??

Either way, the hitch tag is still goofy and for long hauls I am getting a WDH.

Although others have said the hitch tag is more about weight distribution than hitch strength, I agree that a WDH pushes the F150 hitch to 1100# tongue and 11600 trailer weight.

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[Isaguel]

Although others have said the hitch tag is more about weight distribution than hitch strength, I agree that a WDH pushes the F150 hitch to 1100# tongue and 11600 trailer weight.

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Yes, my opinion is you are correct. Without the WDH, the capacity is 700# tongue weight and 7k#'s towing. But that has nothing to do with the hitch strength, the hitch itself still has capacity for what they advertise, 13,200 for my 3.5 lt F150; its just that that kind of weight, say 1300 lbs downforce on the hitch, will raise the front of the truck and reduce front tire friction and grip, increasing risk of loss of control of vehicle. The WDH transfers some of the weight to the front axle.
I couldn't find a WDH setup that would work on our type of boat trailer.

[larry_arizona]

You buy a solid bar WDH and a single pole adaptor for the tongue


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[eder10986]

Alright fellas. Found a 2012 F150 Fx4 Lariat and brought it home today.

Will test tow with it this weekend but I think problem is solved!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210217/a5435f824ba58d9dd5f0fd172840bef0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210217/a34331d47cc14c332ae063c79820dd74.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210217/4c7778bae1f3674dad10561d3fbe4b33.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210217/0ce90096c7c4f7ce51e85e04d9bc9200.jpg


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[sandm]

good lookin ride.....

[brad460]

Great looking truck! What size are those tires? 35s?

[eder10986]

Yup. 35’s fury country hunter r/t on a 3” pro comp lift.

Throwing a dual exhaust on it in a few weeks.


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[larry_arizona]

New F150 commercial towing a SE on tri axle.

https://youtu.be/NH4vZccaZnU


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[Isaguel]

New F150 commercial towing a SE on tri axle.

https://youtu.be/NH4vZccaZnU


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Looks like the advertising firm did not touch base with the engineers. That truck looks small compared to that SE and no WDH. That's not good. The commercial represents Ford and it should strive for accurate representation. Their own sticker clearly says 13000 lbs with a WDH. They're not following their own recommendations.

[larry_arizona]

Not sure what tongue weight is on an SE Tri axle.


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[sandm]

Not sure what tongue weight is on an SE Tri axle.


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good question.

looking at the supra site looks like the se comes in at 7750. add options/fluids/triple axle and I would think 9k is on the high side. that isn't outside the tow ratings for a 3.5eb 4x4. not sure I would see that as any misrepresentation of the towing capacity.
that large of a boat I would think most are moving to diesel but the numbers say it pans out. would hate to be following them up a 6 or 7% mountain pass for any length of time tho.

[larry_arizona]

2018 F150 3.5 10spd 3.55 gear, 9500# 1000# tongue weight with WDH, Ike gauntlet.

https://youtu.be/_z4isefQedA


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[Tylerrnemt]

Alright fellas. Found a 2012 F150 Fx4 Lariat and brought it home today.

Will test tow with it this weekend but I think problem is solved!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210217/a5435f824ba58d9dd5f0fd172840bef0.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210217/a34331d47cc14c332ae063c79820dd74.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210217/4c7778bae1f3674dad10561d3fbe4b33.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210217/0ce90096c7c4f7ce51e85e04d9bc9200.jpg


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Good looking truck! It’s not an FX4 though someone just put the stickers on the bed...... looks to be 5.0 coyote rather than ecoboost .... good call

[KnoxMojo]

I tow with an old 5.3L Chevy. Avalanche Z71. Took off the problematic air ride, installed Timbren progressive bump stops, beefed up the hitch, top level brakes... for the few miles a year I do tow, it's admirable. If I still towed a lot, no question, a 3/4 ton gas or diesel.

[eder10986]

It is an FX4 per the vin. The cluster was swapped out at one point. Does have the 5.0 coyote which I’m stoked about. Need to fix a couple small things but she’ll be a great workhorse for some years


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[2in2out]

With the 2021 F-150 you get better tow capacity and you can power your home.

https://apple.news/AcDHCqMVERKC6OA9wbeBV8w

[larry_arizona]

With the 2021 F-150 you get better tow capacity and you can power your home.

https://apple.news/AcDHCqMVERKC6OA9wbeBV8w

The hybrid kills payload bad and reduces towing capacity.


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[2in2out]

When I was configuring the 21 f-250, you could option a 4K or 7k inverter, and I thought the f-150 EB also had 2-4K inverters.

[Isaguel]

The hybrid kills payload bad and reduces towing capacity.


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The hybrid is still rated at 12k lbs. Far more than I would want to tow with a truck that size. My F-150 is rated for 13.2k lbs, it tows the Supra with ease, but no way I would tow that much.

[larry_arizona]

The hybrid is still rated at 12k lbs. Far more than I would want to tow with a truck that size. My F-150 is rated for 13.2k lbs, it tows the Supra with ease, but no way I would tow that much.

Payload drops to 1800#, you will run out of payload long before you hit max trailer weight.


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[rdlangston13]

Payload drops to 1800#, you will run out of payload long before you hit max trailer weight.


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drops to 1800#? That still 200+ lbs more than my truck! Is that 1800# on an xlt trim with the HDPP?

[larry_arizona]

drops to 1800#? That still 200+ lbs more than my truck! Is that 1800# on an xlt trim with the HDPP?

The non hybrid 3.5EB supercrew short box 4x4 is 2640# payload.

Losing 800#+ payload is significant. The added mass of the battery packs and electric motors subtracts from payload.

Ford is using a near super duty rear axle called a “semi floating”. I don’t think you can get that with the hybrid.

Four adults, tongue weight plus hitch gear puts you around 1500# payload in a hurry. Throw some luggage, coolers and gear in the bed for a road trip and most will exceed payload capacity.

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[rdlangston13]

The non hybrid 3.5EB supercrew short box 4x4 is 2640# payload.

Losing 800#+ payload is significant. The added mass of the battery packs and electric motors subtracts from payload.

Ford is using a near super duty rear axle called a “semi floating”. I don’t think you can get that with the hybrid.

Four adults, tongue weight plus hitch gear puts you around 1500# payload in a hurry. Throw some luggage, coolers and gear in the bed for a road trip and most will exceed payload capacity.

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That 2640# HAS to be with the optional HDPP. My payload with 3.5 EB short box 4x4 is 1572#. Ford only offers HDPP in xlt trim and down, once you go lariat you can't get it. I think they would rather sell you an F250 at that point which sucks.

[UNSTUCK]

Perhaps your rear axle term is mixed up. I'm not aware of any 1/2 ton using anything but a semi floating rear end. Most 3/4 and 1 tons use a full floating rear end.

[larry_arizona]

Perhaps your rear axle term is mixed up. I'm not aware of any 1/2 ton using anything but a semi floating rear end. Most 3/4 and 1 tons use a full floating rear end.

You are correct, It’s called a “3/4 floating” on the new F150. This axle also adds bigger brakes.

It’s far stronger than traditional semi floating.

https://tfltruck.com/2020/12/news-these-2021-ford-f-150-trucks-have-a-3-4-floating-axle-it-may-be-delaying-your-truck/


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[larry_arizona]

That 2640# HAS to be with the optional HDPP. My payload with 3.5 EB short box 4x4 is 1572#. Ford only offers HDPP in xlt trim and down, once you go lariat you can't get it. I think they would rather sell you an F250 at that point which sucks.

I believe you are correct, but keep in mind, lariat and up, every added option subtracts from payload, big hitter is that massive sunroof.

According to Ford’s site the 2640 is with the regular tow package (not sure if with max tow it drops a little)


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[Guppydriver]

My payload with 3.5 EB short box 4x4 is 1572#. Ford only offers HDPP in xlt trim and down, once you go lariat you can't get it. I think they would rather sell you an F250 at that point which sucks.

I don’t even see where the HDPP is available on the XTLT? It’s not a stand alone option, and when I add the MTTP to the XLT it gives the disclaimer that the HDPP is required on the XL, but in the list of what is included in the MTTP, it doesn’t say it comes with the HDPP even on the XLT.

What am I missing?

Although I have always been a GM fan (because that’s what my Dad had TBH), I’m increasingly leaning toward Ford if I decide to stay with a half ton because of ease of daily driving.

[j.mo]

2640 is pretty big payload for a half ton.
My 2015 ram 2500 is only 2680 I believe


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[rdlangston13]

I don’t even see where the HDPP is available on the XTLT? It’s not a stand alone option, and when I add the MTTP to the XLT it gives the disclaimer that the HDPP is required on the XL, but in the list of what is included in the MTTP, it doesn’t say it comes with the HDPP even on the XLT.

What am I missing?

Although I have always been a GM fan (because that’s what my Dad had TBH), I’m increasingly leaning toward Ford if I decide to stay with a half ton because of ease of daily driving.

So I am pretty sure that MTTP does NOT include the HDPP. I just visited the Ford website and could not find the HDPP on the configuration tool which is weird because I swear I remember seeing it like two weeks ago.

[larry_arizona]

It is strange, MTTP does not include HDPP.

Getting ready to order a 2021 and thinking getting just the regular tow package and HDPP.

Ultimately I am after the big axle 9.75 3/4 floater, bigger brakes and heaviest suspension.

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[Waterworn]

So here’s the scenario. We just bought a 2017 Supra SA 400. We have a 2020 jeep GC with v8 hemos rated at 7200 max.

I’m well aware I’m maxed out. The vehicle pulls the boat just fine. But I’m maxed out and I can definitely feel the boat pulling. I just don’t trust it and don’t feel safe with it.

We’re keeping the GC so looking at buying a dedicated tow vehicle. Here are my “parameters”

Looking at something 2012 or older. Looking to spend 15k max. It’ll be a high miles vehicle but we’re also I need of a not so nice car to throw crap in and such since both of our current cars are not suited for that.

I genuinely need advice and DO NOT want this to turn into a tow vehicle debate and fight.

These are some I’ve been glancing at

GMC Yukon Denali
Chevy Silverado 1500
Chevy Tahoe
Nissan Armada
Ford F-150 platinum
Ram 1500-2500

Any help would be appreciated. Dry weight is 6900 I believe.


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Definitely get a diesel, they are by far the best for towing. I'd go with anything you can find in that price from Chevy, Ford, or Dodge.