Makai hitch question

[1967-mustang]

Looking at a 21 Makai. The dry weight of the boat is 5,200. I have a 2019 Expedition max with the HD tow package. Looking at the sticker on the hitch the max trailer weight is 6,600 and 9,000 with weight distribution. DO any of the Moomba owners use a weight distribution hitch on their boats?

[larry_arizona]

WD hitches are typically not capable of backing up which is obviously required for a boat.

Boatmate trailers does not recommend WD hitching.

Don’t forget to add the weight of the trailer to the boat, looks like total weight is 6400.


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[1967-mustang]

I did see that boat and trailer weight was 6,400. So with fuel and gear I would be over the weight carrying limit on my truck. What have others done to work past this issue.

[Josh828]

I did see that boat and trailer weight was 6,400. So with fuel and gear I would be over the weight carrying limit on my truck. What have others done to work past this issue.

Send it, wait that's probably not the best answer..

But wow ford is advertising 9000lbs with no mention of having to have a WD hitch, that's a little sly

How far are you planning on going? Every weekend towing 100 miles or?

[larry_arizona]

Welcome to the wakeboat towing dilemma.

1/2 ton pickups are pushing the limits to tow these boats. 1/2 ton SUV’s even worse.

The trucks will pull it but research your hitch gear, brakes and payload limits.

Obviously a 3/4 ton pick up all day but understand that they are not ideal for daily drivers and family applications.


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[That Guy]

I believe the big difference with boat trailers is the lower than average tongue weight for the size of load being towed. I've never used nor known anyone to use a WD hitch for towing these boats with a half ton truck or SUV and I've been doing it for years. I do use a WD hitch for my enclosed car trailer on the same truck however.

YMMV.

[1967-mustang]

from what I can see reading my owners manual my only issue is the weight carrying setup on the hitch. My GCRW is 15,500 vehicle weight now is 5,800. I was looking at getting the optional electric over hydraulic breaks on the trailer.

Most of the time I would tow about between 55 and 120 miles depending on what lake we are going to. However once or twice a year we would take the boat from where we live in Missouri to Texas I have grown kids that live in Texas about 640 miles.

[1967-mustang]

I believe the big difference with boat trailers is the lower than average tongue weight for the size of load being towed. I've never used nor known anyone to use a WD hitch for towing these boats with a half ton truck or SUV and I've been doing it for years. I do use a WD hitch for my enclosed car trailer on the same truck however.

YMMV.

Yes with our older expedition had a 2003 model when all the kids were still home and a travel trailer I had a WD setup.

[2in2out]

I did see that boat and trailer weight was 6,400. So with fuel and gear I would be over the weight carrying limit on my truck. What have others done to work past this issue.

Options depend on what you are hoping to accomplish.

Option #1 - Find a friend who has a 3/4 ton you can swap vehicles with. Tow my boat to the lake, friend rides free. Buy their fuel.

Option #2 - If you are dead set on using your vehicle, and are trying to stay legal, tow the boat empty of fuel and gear. Put the gear in your tow vehicle or second vehicle. This is a PITA especially if you have lead.

Option #3 - If you are trying to avoid warranty issues with your vehicle, don't tow with it. See option #1, #5, or #6.

Option #4 - If you are trying to stay safe, don't tow with it. See option #1, #5, or #6.

Option #5 - Find a cheap used 3/4 ton truck to tow with.

Option #6 - Check with equipment / truck rental companies. I'm not sure if Home Depot trucks have towing exclusions in their agreement, but most car rental places do.

Option #7 - Rent a slip with a lift. This may not even be an option. See option #1, #5, or #6.

Option #8 - Buy a Kaiyen. This gives you 900# margin, and is very similar. Money saved can help you get a 3/4 ton truck.

None of this is meant to be tongue-in-cheek. They are all viable, and reasonable options to ensuring towing safety and legally, while protecting your interests.

[2in2out]

Some Ford owners have had a second class V hitch installed that is rated for more weight. The problem is you start to exceed the braking capacity and steering friction when you go above designed weight limits. Upgrading calipers and rotors may give you more margin, but your altering a designed system, and there is so much interplay between those systems. Plus, the investment to do such might be cost prohibitive as well.

My Tundra will safely tow my SA loaded. I know this, and have done the research. But, even though it will tow the boat, should it? Every time I tow I fear the transmission is going to grenade. Towing in fear is not fun, especially for a long trip.

[MJHSupra]

To answer the question of "what have others done to work past this issue", for towing my SL to the lake, I went out and purchased a Ford 6.0 Excursion.

I have used my 1/2 ton Chevy, but it does not stop well. If I'm at a steep ramp, the 4x4 helps, but the truck is REALLY straining. I'm killing it.

[dakota4ce]

EOH brakes. Changes everything. The rules Nazis will cite numbers, talk about warranties, talk about insurance liability etc;....but really you’re looking to be safe and practical, no?

Keep tongue weight appropriate and use EOH brakes. That’s as good as it gets.


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[brad460]

Welcome to the wakeboat towing dilemma.

1/2 ton pickups are pushing the limits to tow these boats. 1/2 ton SUV’s even worse.

The trucks will pull it but research your hitch gear, brakes and payload limits.

Obviously a 3/4 ton pick up all day but understand that they are not ideal for daily drivers and family applications.


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No Moomba is even coming close to pushing the limits of a 1/2 ton pick-up...Current 1/2 ton trucks are very capable of safely pulling heavy loads...(given your a capable driver)..

I’ve pulled a lot of heavy trailers in my life (my skid steer, boats, enclosed trailers, etc.) and it’s all about driving smart...

If your an idiot driver it won’t matter how big a truck your driving.

[sandm]

No Moomba is even coming close to pushing the limits of a 1/2 ton pick-up...Current 1/2 ton trucks are very capable of safely pulling heavy loads...(given your a capable driver)..


not sure where else you have lived but my f150 with 7700(3/4 ton pack) and tow pack didn't like pulling my old tige up and down 6% grades out west. when we moved to Green Bay it towed around that area like a dream. had we stayed in idaho, that truck would have been worn out years before it did in WI.

just food for thought. location matters as much as the actual payload and driver.

[Tommy2slow]

My 2013 F150 with the V6 Ecoboost pulls my Mojo with electric brakes without braking a sweat. Tried towing it with my son’s GMC 1500 with the 5.3 V8 and it was working really hard. Only you will know how your truck handles the pull.

[Josh828]

My 18 Gmc Denali 1500 is rated for 12,500 lbs apparently, 6.2 V8 with 420hp and 460tq 8 speed transmission.

I agree a new 1/2 ton should be more than capable, the new diesel trucks are rated for so much more than you would ever need

That being said I'm currently actively looking for another diesel truck because more pwr is always better

[cucv]

What type of distance, frequency and roads are you hauling on? How much towing experience do you have?
I'd start off finding out what the tough weight is of the boat and trailer.

I've towed alot with a WD hitch and have no problems backing up. Interesting that boatmate recommends not using WD hitches, I'd dig into that as well.

2005 Tige 22v

[larry_arizona]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210121/b11a0e7295e8e3d355ad0b9b52bd5319.jpg

Also I see some of the modern WDH set ups allow for backing up. That was not always an option.


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[MJHSupra]

1/2 or 3/4 ton, I could give a crap about the number. I just want to be able to stop and feel save hauling the boat to other lakes around the area. I will say the new tranny packages in some of those 1/2s are nice, just need the bigger brakes.

I agree with @dakota4ce on those trailer brakes.

[russellsmojo]

Airbags help a bunch. Even 3/4 ton guys using them.


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[2in2out]

I think the difference in tongue design between heavy load trailers and boat trailers would make properly installing a WDH problematic. The triangle of the tongue anchors the pitman arms, whereas boat trailers do not have that triangle. The angle between pitman arms is a necessary component of the system as it provides flex and rigidity, as well as steering angle.

Add to the problem the swing-tongue weak point are the hinge and keeper pin eyes. I think a WDH set up would put too much strain on those components.

[cucv]

I do get the concern Boatmate has with surge brakes but I have not had a problem with that on multiple trailers with surge brakes. Electric over hydraulic solves that problem anyway. They have WD adapters for straight tongue trailers.

2005 Tige 22v

[larry_arizona]

Perhaps air springs help keep weight on the front axle.


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[1967-mustang]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210121/b11a0e7295e8e3d355ad0b9b52bd5319.jpg

Also I see some of the modern WDH set ups allow for backing up. That was not always an option.


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If the only reason not to have a WDH is the surge brakes then the EOH brake system should eliminate that issue. I have pulled several enclosed trailers and flat bed trailers with 10K+ loads with WDH and never had an issue with backing up. On the enclosed trailer you did have to disengage the sway control to backup. Did not have sway control on the flat bed trailer. Was not planning on adding a sway bar to the boat trailer.

[1967-mustang]

I think the difference in tongue design between heavy load trailers and boat trailers would make properly installing a WDH problematic. The triangle of the tongue anchors the pitman arms, whereas boat trailers do not have that triangle. The angle between pitman arms is a necessary component of the system as it provides flex and rigidity, as well as steering angle.

Add to the problem the swing-tongue weak point are the hinge and keeper pin eyes. I think a WDH set up would put too much strain on those components.

I was not going to get the swing away option on the trialer I do not need it to make it fit in my storage building. Was planning on the EoH brake system. I have more experience with electric brakes than surge brakes.

[larry_arizona]

EOH is new to boatmate as an available option for Supra/Moomba, I think it started 2020 or 2021


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[2in2out]

I was not going to get the swing away option on the trialer I do not need it to make it fit in my storage building. Was planning on the EoH brake system. I have more experience with electric brakes than surge brakes.

My next boat trailer will have EOH brakes. I’ve had hell putting backing my boat into my driveway and at one certain ramp because they are both uphill, and the surge brakes engage. I have a lockout tool, but it only stays on about half the time. I’d much rather have EOH with the grades I pull. Similar to what Sandm describes.

[russellsmojo]

Perhaps air springs help keep weight on the front axle.


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I think that would be true making front brakes more effective. Also better for night driving.

I had a bicyclist whip out in front of me this past season. I was running about 40mph. Was really impressed with how quickly everything stopped. I have a 1/2 ton with air bags pulling an SA. Scared the hell out of me. Bicyclist never looked up or heard 8 tires locked up. Guess music was good.


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[Tommy2slow]

My next boat trailer will have EOH brakes. I’ve had hell putting backing my boat into my driveway and at one certain ramp because they are both uphill, and the surge brakes engage. I have a lockout tool, but it only stays on about half the time. I’d much rather have EOH with the grades I pull. Similar to what Sandm describes.
There may be a problem with your tow vehicle wiring to the hitch. The surge brakes should disengage when your reverse lights come on. Backing up hills and over speed bumps/ curbs etc. should be no problem.

[rdlangston13]

Coming from someone who pulls with an expedition and has done the drive from Missouri to Texas and back before I think you will be fine. Granted my mojo is not has heavy as a makai, we are at 6940 lbs with 560 lb tongue weight loaded for the lake and were more than that on out way to missouri due to all the luggage for the trip being in the boat. We also had 6 people in the expedition. Main thing is just watch your speed and give yourself plenty of space for stopping. You may want to look into sumo springs for the expedition to help with the load. And like it has been mentioned, if you want a WDH then they are available for pole tongue trailers.

In regards to air bags, the weight transferred back to the front axle via air bags i would think it negligible. You're still using the rear axle a fulcrum for all the weight, air bags do not change that like a WDH does.

I have a 2018 F150 that has the same power train as your expedition so one thing I do recommend is locking out 9th and 10th gear while towing. Maybe 8th too depending on hills and such.

[SONIC]

My next boat trailer will have EOH brakes. I’ve had hell putting backing my boat into my driveway and at one certain ramp because they are both uphill, and the surge brakes engage. I have a lockout tool, but it only stays on about half the time. I’d much rather have EOH with the grades I pull. Similar to what Sandm describes.

Check your truck wiring as when you go in reverse the surge brakes should lock themselves out. I have no issue backing my SA up any hill when it's hooked to the truck.
When I move it with the forklift however it's impossible to go uphill without the lockout tool.

[2in2out]

Check your truck wiring as when you go in reverse the surge brakes should lock themselves out. I have no issue backing my SA up any hill when it's hooked to the truck.
When I move it with the forklift however it's impossible to go uphill without the lockout tool.

I haven’t experienced it with the boatmate trailer yet, but the VM trailer I had with the Sanger, if you got into certain positions the brakes would lock out. I can’t fit the Supra in my driveway, so I haven’t even given it a go.

[1967-mustang]

Coming from someone who pulls with an expedition and has done the drive from Missouri to Texas and back before I think you will be fine. Granted my mojo is not has heavy as a makai, we are at 6940 lbs with 560 lb tongue weight loaded for the lake and were more than that on out way to missouri due to all the luggage for the trip being in the boat. We also had 6 people in the expedition. Main thing is just watch your speed and give yourself plenty of space for stopping. You may want to look into sumo springs for the expedition to help with the load. And like it has been mentioned, if you want a WDH then they are available for pole tongue trailers.

In regards to air bags, the weight transferred back to the front axle via air bags i would think it negligible. You're still using the rear axle a fulcrum for all the weight, air bags do not change that like a WDH does.

I have a 2018 F150 that has the same power train as your expedition so one thing I do recommend is locking out 9th and 10th gear while towing. Maybe 8th too depending on hills and such.

Thanks for the advice. When you engage the tow function on the truck does it lock out the higher gears?
So far the heaviest load I have pulled with this new truck is my 67 mustang. Did pull a 32ft travel trailer with the old truck with the 5.4 and only 5 gears you could defiantly tell it was back there.

[larry_arizona]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210122/271e142a4ca40c2d9029ee1814a617a8.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210122/436e28476108e9bd88fe62e0688fdbbf.jpg
Looks like a solid option


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[SONIC]

Go big or go home:

29356

[rdlangston13]

Thanks for the advice. When you engage the tow function on the truck does it lock out the higher gears?
So far the heaviest load I have pulled with this new truck is my 67 mustang. Did pull a 32ft travel trailer with the old truck with the 5.4 and only 5 gears you could defiantly tell it was back there.

No you have to do it manually. when youre in drive press the - on the shifter and the all 1 though 10 should show up on the cluster, pressing the - again will make the 10 disappear, and so on. Main problem is after you put it in park you have to redo it.

[UNSTUCK]

I've always been impressed with SC showing weights of the boat and trailer in their advertising. I'm not sure if any other company does. However, taking boat weights from Tige and MB as well as trailer weights from Boatmate, in my experience the numbers are always way low. On paper, my boat weighs 6000 and the trailer is 1400. However, on the scales together (loaded for a day at the lake) the total weight is 8540. No lead. Once cooler full of ice and drinks. Surfboards and jackets. Medium box anchor. That's it. Maybe 200 in extras. So where is the extra weight coming from that Tige or Boatmate forgot to mention? Just fuel?

Has anyone found SC to have more accurate numbers?

My point is to not rely on advertising numbers when you decide if your rig call pull/stop your new boat. If you haven't scaled your boat/trailer you should.

[Chuds]

The boat weight advertised would be the dry weight of the base model so yes all the gear you add, if you added any options beyond stock would add to the weight and of course fluids (tranny, oil, coolant etc.) and yes fuel is a large portion of the added weight.

[sandm]

maybe tige never changed their weighting practices. back in the day they advertised a boat weight as just that. the hull, engine and interior.
since tower was an "option", albeit one that was always checked, boat weight was sans tower. I would bet the alpha z is easily 500lbs.

[Isaguel]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210122/271e142a4ca40c2d9029ee1814a617a8.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210122/436e28476108e9bd88fe62e0688fdbbf.jpg
Looks like a solid option


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Interesting, I did not know you can use a WDH on one of these trailers with a tongue. Good to know. Never seen one of those "adapters". Learn something new every. day.

[dakota4ce]

I've always been impressed with SC showing weights of the boat and trailer in their advertising. I'm not sure if any other company does. However, taking boat weights from Tige and MB as well as trailer weights from Boatmate, in my experience the numbers are always way low. On paper, my boat weighs 6000 and the trailer is 1400. However, on the scales together (loaded for a day at the lake) the total weight is 8540. No lead. Once cooler full of ice and drinks. Surfboards and jackets. Medium box anchor. That's it. Maybe 200 in extras. So where is the extra weight coming from that Tige or Boatmate forgot to mention? Just fuel?

Has anyone found SC to have more accurate numbers?

My point is to not rely on advertising numbers when you decide if your rig call pull/stop your new boat. If you haven't scaled your boat/trailer you should.

You easily could have 500# of fluids.


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[rdlangston13]

Interesting, I did not know you can use a WDH on one of these trailers with a tongue. Good to know. Never seen one of those "adapters". Learn something new every. day.

I'm not sure if it is different from the adapter shown but they also make a WDH designed for use on a pole tongue trailer WITH surge brakes. I think it looks more fit for purpose than this one does with the adapter.

[UNSTUCK]

You easily could have 500# of fluids.


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Yes, I know. Took owning a boat or two to fully realize it. Again, my point is that anyone thinking they can tow a boat based on the manufactures listed weights may be in for a surprise. If you think you might be over your tow rigs limits, put the boat on a scale and find out, before you commit to purchasing.

[larry_arizona]

I'm not sure if it is different from the adapter shown but they also make a WDH designed for use on a pole tongue trailer WITH surge brakes. I think it looks more fit for purpose than this one does with the adapter.

Link to single pole specific WDH? I have only found the adapter style so far


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[larry_arizona]

Decent explanation of airbags vs WDH.

https://youtu.be/XBZu39pQ8Gg


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[rockymtnsurfer]

My next boat trailer will have EOH brakes. I’ve had hell putting backing my boat into my driveway and at one certain ramp because they are both uphill, and the surge brakes engage. I have a lockout tool, but it only stays on about half the time. I’d much rather have EOH with the grades I pull. Similar to what Sandm describes.

I have a terrible time with the surge brakes.....to the point where I just put my key in every time I am going to launch ( which is every time we boat) I even have the key attached to a tether so its always there. I had Marine products test it (they said its fine and works well) Tried it on my F250 ...locked up, Tundra...Locked up. Now it does work if I go 1/16th of a mph....literally the slowest crawl you can do, and even then it locks up. Check tow hook ups, breakers everything. I tow all the time (not with surge) and have no towing issues except with this trailer.

Any thoughts? Adjustments on the surge? No one at Marine. products could help me, not did they have a solution except it works when they tested it.

I have a system now with the key, but its annoying and frustrating.

[SONIC]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.vmboattrailers.com/images/Reverse_Lockout_Troubleshooting.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiRht2Bp7LuAhUlrVkKHcOiAEwQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3MOggNZ2_4Casge3CLC5e9

Some troubleshooting for surge brakes.
They should not engage at all in reverse.

[2in2out]

Any thoughts? Adjustments on the surge? No one at Marine. products could help me, not did they have a solution except it works when they tested it.

I have a system now with the key, but its annoying and frustrating.

The VM trailer only did it when backing uphill. I would have to put it in 4lo to back into my driveway. I had to do the slow creep as well. At the ramp, the slope from the ready line to the turnout, along with the angle I was at would occasionally cause a lock up when I’d start backing. It was a matter of pulling forward and changing the angle.

I haven’t had a problem with the boatmate trailer yet. But, it won’t fit in my driveway, so I won’t get to test it. Depending on what house we buy when we relocate, then it may become an issue.

I never had a problem with out travel trailer, but they were EOH. My buddy’s UTV trailer backed fine and it has a surge system on it.

[larry_arizona]

No issues backing my previous boatmate uphill. My driveway has a decent incline.


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[Isaguel]

Surge brakes should not lock up when backing up. Mine never do on an incline. You have a bad connection somewhere, likely at the 7 pin plug/ hitch receiver end. I had a malfunction with the plug receiver on my F-150, it was finnicky and would connect and disconnect, lights would not work either, the whole plug receiver was malfunctioning. Sometimes had to get out of truck walk to the back and pull it out and reconnect or wiggle it to get power flowing. Brought it into Ford and was replaced under warranty. No problems since.

[2in2out]

Any thoughts? Adjustments on the surge? No one at Marine. products could help me, not did they have a solution except it works when they tested it.

I have a system now with the key, but its annoying and frustrating.

After thinking about it a bit, I remember reading about issues when auto headlights were set. There is an issue with remote start systems where if auto headlight is on the remote start would cause issue with a lighting relay if it wasn’t wired correctly. I know these are separate issues, but it could stand to some reason why it happens. Similar issue occurs with aftermarket tow mirrors that have a reverse spotlight incorporated. Some users cannot get the spotlight to shut off if auto headlights is on. I always run with auto headlights, so that may have caused my issue. I came to this thought after Sonic provided the VM troubleshooting instructions.

So, it’s a no-cost troubleshooting idea. Nothing to lose right?

[sandm]

my 16 chevy has auto headlights. last boatmate was '14 and current is '20. no issues with surge on either trailer.
now our prior '12 trailer from metalcraft didn't have surge. EVERY time we backed that thing up we had to use the lockout. piss poor design for sure......

[rockymtnsurfer]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.vmboattrailers.com/images/Reverse_Lockout_Troubleshooting.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiRht2Bp7LuAhUlrVkKHcOiAEwQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3MOggNZ2_4Casge3CLC5e9

Some troubleshooting for surge brakes.
They should not engage at all in reverse.

Google...haha....perfect thank you....I am going to go through this in my shop next week. I have to get this solved