2021 Used Boat Prices

[MJHSupra]

I read a post from onlyinboards and wanted to pass along:

"Just wanted to point out that it sure seems this coming season is going to be as crazy as last season. If you are going to be purchasing a bimini top, speakers, ballast, or any accessory for your boat i'd highly recommend getting your order in ASAP so you are sure that you get it by spring. Items will sell out like they did last year early and you could be stuck waiting months.

For boats, i can tell you OIB had 2750 boats listed in early Dec. and now there are about 2565 listed. That may seem like a lot but generally this time of year boat inventory goes UP, not down! Last year in March there were over 5000 new and used boats listed. I'd be shocked if we see 3300 at any point this year, which means again we'll have used boat prices that are sky high. So, if you in the market for a boat and find one at a reasonable price now, pull the trigger. Do not wait because these boats will sell immediately in the spring. I can't count how many times i had boat sellers tell me they sold their boats in 15 minutes this past season on OnlyInboards. These were not "steals" either, they were just priced reasonably and there were so many buyers that they'd get 30 leads in the first hour.

Anyway, just a friendly heads up for fellow WW'ers"

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[j.mo]

Better to have it posted here. Information will be more fruitful.

Only thing people care about on WW is orange man bad [emoji23]


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[larry_arizona]

Does not shock me at all, another crazy boat year for sure.

I know my dealer currently has plenty of Moomba inventory.

2 Makai
2 max
2 Kaiyen
1 craz
1 mojo

I think they have 2 Supra as well although I was told they may both be sold.

1 SA
1 SL

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[larry_arizona]

Forgot, they have

2 mondo


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[MJHSupra]

Better to have it posted here. Information will be more fruitful.

Only thing people care about on WW is orange man bad [emoji23]


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Ha ha!! So true. Very strange. My other one is why someone would listen to financial stock advice from the wake forum?

[larry_arizona]

I belong to a couple car forums and the stock advice is nearly comical.

Some definite holiday inn express customers.

One guy became a Teslaonaire and is now the expert on day trading.


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[mgswake]

Anyone else see boat prices following the same trend as college tuition. I've noted this before, low loan rates and longer term loans equal higher boat prices. The boats style, tech, and function has definitely improved on newer models. But, are these features improving/increasing at the same rate as the prices increase? IMHO it is not, but surely is debatable. It has allowed for a lot of new ideas and features on boats over the past couple of years.

[SONIC]

I agree, I saw on this forum a few minutes ago where someone said "it's not $1000 it's $4/month"
That thought process is a large driving factor in the increase in pricing IMO.

unpopular opinion but you shouldn't be able to finance a toy for 20 years

[larry_arizona]

I agree, I saw on this forum a few minutes ago where someone said "it's not $1000 it's $4/month"
That thought process is a large driving factor in the increase in pricing IMO.

unpopular opinion but you shouldn't be able to finance a toy for 20 years

I believe the OEMS have the pricing strategy figured out.

The only way you can sell six figure boats is long term loans

To sell a boat owner a NEW boat, the owner needs to clear his old boat loan. OEM’s therefore increase new boats to keep used boat prices high.

It’s a pricing strategy that works.

I don’t disagree that 20 year loans are questionable, but when you can finance at 3.5% you would be foolish not to take that luxury.

It gives me the flexibility to make double payments whenever I want.

Effectively a 20 year loan is a lease plan.


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[2in2out]

If the banks saw risk, they wouldn’t be giving the loans. So the valuations are holding as is supported by the current market. Inflation is occurring because of overvaluation. The bubble is going to pop, but no one can determine the mechanism.

[sandm]

our bank in green bay won't loan 20 years on boats or rv's. I chalk that up to the conservative midwest thought process but they only do 15 year max and it's not a true 15. 15 amortized out with a 5 year balloon. limits their risk in being stuck in long term loans and increases their member profits if interest rises. they push 12 year loans hard for large purchases as those are fixed. we like them as their interest rates are usually one of the lowest and how many REALLY keep boats more than 5 years but it does come with risk if you do keep long term. goes back to larrys comment on leasing.

I think msg is right in that rising prices have allowed all the new tech but this rate of increase is not sustainable over the long haul and my gut says innovation will slow in the next year as the economy as a whole blows up. there's a GLUT of rentals/houses out there that are waiting for the gov't to open up foreclosures again and if you think all this stimulus money isn't going to come due on taxes at some point... that will impact the toy market especially mb/axis/moomba/atx.

I think spring will still see strong sales as there are a ton of deposits out there for boats coming but my gut says market slows early summer.
couple dealers I watch regularly went from virtually no inventory in july when we shopped to over a dozen used units each with several showing price reductions. both dealers are tige/skiers dealers.

[SONIC]

I believe the OEMS have the pricing strategy figured out.

The only way you can sell six figure boats is long term loans

To sell a boat owner a NEW boat, the owner needs to clear his old boat loan. OEM’s therefore increase new boats to keep used boat prices high.

It’s a pricing strategy that works.

I don’t disagree that 20 year loans are questionable, but when you can finance at 3.5% you would be foolish not to take that luxury.

It gives me the flexibility to make double payments whenever I want.

Effectively a 20 year loan is a lease plan.


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I agree, I am just of the opinion that toys are a luxury and if you can't buy it you probably shouldn't have it.

Obviously everyone's opinion on this one is different but you're probably dead on with the price increase strategy.

That being said financing is the smart move, assuming you have the cash to invest elsewhere which will offset the cost of the financing.


I just hate seeing people with the attitude of "it's only this much monthly payment" because that's really not a good way to approach your finances and It just irks me that that's how the majority of people see everything today. In my opinion that's a large driving factor for the increase in cost of lots of things from cars to mortgages. People don't know, understand, or even care what the ultimate cost of the financing is they just see their monthly payment and nothing more.

[larry_arizona]

Agreed, my rule of thumb has always been, don’t pay cash for something when the interest rate is lower than what your investments are making.

I mean, yes the best thing to do financially is never buy toys and only invest. But you only live once.


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[MJHSupra]

I see all these boats flying of the shelf and I just want to find my little piece of smooth water on the lake.

Thus why we try to get out more during the week vs weekend.

[rhouse181]

This crazy price phenomenon isn't isolated to just boats... Don't know if we have any Bringatrailer.com fans here, but enthusiast / collector car prices are through the roof. I sold my e28 BMW a few years ago for what I thought was a stupid amount of money but I would have made 3x as much if I waited another year. Here in Houston, home prices are through the roof with record low inventory and bidding wars common amongst 5-10 counterparties for anything priced within the stratosphere. Credit card debt, college debt, new car loans... pick your poison and term length / outstanding balances are at historical levels.

To be honest, there is a ton of "cheap" money floating around the market right now and I can't figure out how all these people with crazy leverage will land on their feet in the end. There has to be some kind of implosion that pulls the plug on this party...

When that dust settles, then you will find yourself a cheap boat if you have some cash still left under the mattress lol

[Josh828]

I just turned 25, so I could save until I'm 40 and buy the boat or I could finance it out for literally ever and live it up while I'm young haha
This is my first toy that I haven't had the money to buy twice over in cash however. The whole thing is still terrifying to me haha
However I am looking at it as monthly payments because I just paid off a rental property which is now covering (almost) the boat payment.
So for me it all just evens out in the wash, also if y'all could steer me in the direction of 3.5% interest rate because I was told 5-6%

[larry_arizona]

I just turned 25, so I could save until I'm 40 and buy the boat or I could finance it out for literally ever and live it up while I'm young haha
This is my first toy that I haven't had the money to buy twice over in cash however. The whole thing is still terrifying to me haha
However I am looking at it as monthly payments because I just paid off a rental property which is now covering (almost) the boat payment.
So for me it all just evens out in the wash, also if y'all could steer me in the direction of 3.5% interest rate because I was told 5-6%

To get the 3.5% has some stipulation.

Actual rate is 3.99% for up to 240 months.
Must be a Michigan resident.

I earned a 0.50% rate discount from making my payments on my last boat. So technically 3.49%


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[j.mo]

Agreed, my rule of thumb has always been, don’t pay cash for something when the interest rate is lower than what your investments are making.

I mean, yes the best thing to do financially is never buy toys and only invest. But you only live once.


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My accountant jumps my case and we go rounds over this lol.
But I hate payments.
No car, toy, or house payments. Allows me to keep my mind clear and focused.
Best choice financially, no. But peace of mind is worth something


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[SONIC]

I guess ultimately my problem is people are reckless and the majority of the time they end up fine and get away with.
That bugs me from a selfish perspective because I'm not lol.

[arsnlgunnr]

To get the 3.5% has some stipulation.

Actual rate is 3.99% for up to 240 months.
Must be a Michigan resident.

I earned a 0.50% rate discount from making my payments on my last boat. So technically 3.49%


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WOW 3.5% over 240 would be awesome!

Best I'm seeing is 5.5-6% over 240 as well.

[j.mo]

WOW 3.5% over 240 would be awesome!

Best I'm seeing is 5.5-6% over 240 as well.

Heloc?

A lender friend of mine has been hounding me about a cash out refi. 2.65%
I think the majority of people buying these boats are using some form of home equity rather than an actual boat loan


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[larry_arizona]

I personally would not tie a depreciating asset to my mortgage.

But the rate is tempting and of course you can write off interest.


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[BizzyC]

Heloc?

A lender friend of mine has been hounding me about a cash out refi. 2.65%
I think the majority of people buying these boats are using some form of home equity rather than an actual boat loan


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I was quoted 3.99% for 180 months - only the boat as collateral. I have very good credit and we used 20% down on the application, but low (non-heloc) rates are out there for sure.

[j.mo]

I guess ultimately my problem is people are reckless and the majority of the time they end up fine and get away with.
That bugs me from a selfish perspective because I'm not lol.

I often think of that too.
Make the bare minimum payment with hordes of cash in the bank. If things go bad they can have whatever they want back, or you pick and choose which to save with cash on hand lol.
Anyone will give you money when times are good. It’s when times are tough..lol.

Typically from what I learned during the recession, most banks are willing to work with you when you owe 130% of what the asset is worth.
However they are licking their chops to get things back when you owe 50% [emoji23]
Play the game, make the bank take the risk


However. My mind cannot be at ease with those games.


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[larry_arizona]

I guess ultimately my problem is people are reckless and the majority of the time they end up fine and get away with.
That bugs me from a selfish perspective because I'm not lol.

Ultimately people know if they can truly afford things or are over extending.


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[sandm]

Ultimately people know if they can truly afford things or are over extending.


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if this was the case we would not have had quite the severe housing crisis back in '08. a lot of people THINK they know what they can afford BECAUSE bank approves the loan. just like buying a house when most lenders will approve you for much more than a person really should be spending...

and to add some fodder to it. boat msrp's are pretty much a joke as well and contributing to things. we bought our boat otd for low80's. msrp was 116k. most any bank out there will take that kind of ltv ratio but is the boat really worth over 100k? nope. and if we went to sell today I'd be surprised if we got much over 85 for it. as used with 20hrs.

[larry_arizona]

if this was the case we would not have had quite the severe housing crisis back in '08. a lot of people THINK they know what they can afford BECAUSE bank approves the loan. just like buying a house when most lenders will approve you for much more than a person really should be spending...

and to add some fodder to it. boat msrp's are pretty much a joke as well and contributing to things. we bought our boat otd for low80's. msrp was 116k. most any bank out there will take that kind of ltv ratio but is the boat really worth over 100k? nope. and if we went to sell today I'd be surprised if we got much over 85 for it. as used with 20hrs.

True, I guess I truly can only speak for myself lol.


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[sandm]

True, I guess I truly can only speak for myself lol.


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I hear ya. we spent quite a bit less than we were qualified for on both boat and house as we know our comfort level and sounds like you share the same belief. I do not think that is the majority of america.

[rdlangston13]

I hear ya. we spent quite a bit less than we were qualified for on both boat and house as we know our comfort level and sounds like you share the same belief. I do not think that is the majority of america.

Ever seen those HGTV shows? "I'm a volunteer fireman and my wife teaches kindergarten, we have a $700,000 budget"

[larry_arizona]

Ever seen those HGTV shows? "I'm a volunteer fireman and my wife teaches kindergarten, we have a $700,000 budget"

Back in the day when I bought my first couple houses, I recall a “rule of 2.5”, meaning 2.5x your gross income to not be house rich.

I don’t know too many teachers and firefighters having a combined income of $280k lol.

Now In very high cost regions of the country where even small bungalow homes exceed 7 figures, I get that people get longer duration loans and don’t put 10-15-20% into their retirements, and bank on their home to be their retirement plan.


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[j.mo]

Back in the day when I bought my first couple houses, I recall a “rule of 2.5”, meaning 2.5x your gross income to not be house rich.

I don’t know too many teachers and firefighters having a combined income of $280k lol.

Now In very high cost regions of the country where even small bungalow homes exceed 7 figures, I get that people get longer duration loans and don’t put 10-15-20% into their retirements, and bank on their home to be their retirement plan.


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280k sounds about right for my area. Ish.
160-180 FF, 100 for a teacher.

I would prefer a house payment not to exceed about 10% of my income personally.


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[larry_arizona]

280k sounds about right for my area. Ish.
160-180 FF, 100 for a teacher.

I would prefer a house payment not to exceed about 10% of my income personally.


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$180k for a fire fighter is baller[emoji106]


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[Josh828]

280k sounds about right for my area. Ish.
160-180 FF, 100 for a teacher.

I would prefer a house payment not to exceed about 10% of my income personally.


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Teachers where I'm at make 30-40k
Fire fighters about the same, most are actually volunteer only 1 or 2 paid guys at the station haha

And in my area a 150K house is going to be a real nice double wide or about 1400 sqft built in the 70s

[j.mo]

Teachers where I'm at make 30-40k
Fire fighters about the same, most are actually volunteer only 1 or 2 paid guys at the station haha

And in my area a 150K house is going to be a real nice double wide or about 1400 sqft built in the 70s

Where I’m at 350 is going to get you 1100sqft from the 70s, in the hood where you sleep with a gun on the nightstand lol


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[rdlangston13]

Where I’m at 350 is going to get you 1100sqft from the 70s, in the hood where you sleep with a gun on the nightstand lol


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where the heck do you live? We paid 199,000 for 2217 sqft new build in a decently nice neighbor hood. We don't follow that 2.5x rule. We are more like 1.25x rule people. I think our next house could fall into the 2.5 category but that is only because of the equity we have acquired in our current home.

350,000 will get you a nice 3,000+ sqft home relatively new in a nice neighborhood.

Where I am teachers make probably around 61k and 48.5k for fire fighters according to a quick google search.

[j.mo]

where the heck do you live? We paid 199,000 for 2217 sqft new build in a decently nice neighbor hood. We don't follow that 2.5x rule. We are more like 1.25x rule people. I think our next house could fall into the 2.5 category but that is only because of the equity we have acquired in our current home.

350,000 will get you a nice 3,000+ sqft home relatively new in a nice neighborhood.

Where I am teachers make probably around 61k and 48.5k for fire fighters according to a quick google search.

I am about smack in the middle between Silicon Valley and Lake Tahoe. At the base of the foothills.


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[SONIC]

Yeah it's always funny to me to talk about money with people from California.
We're 25-40K for a teacher and ~35-50 for a firefighter here in TN.

Interestingly though housing around here is going up fast while pay rates are not, so people are just taking bigger and bigger loans (like I mentioned earlier) that they can't really afford but there's really not another option, it's still cheaper than renting a decent apartment.

Makes that 100K boat seem a lot more expensive by comparison lol

[2in2out]

280k sounds about right for my area. Ish.
160-180 FF, 100 for a teacher.

Some context needs to be applied here. A firefighter can make $160k, but will be working twice their amount of regularly scheduled hours in overtime. Truth is, battalion chiefs and division chief make that kind of cheese and that is also including overtime.

Teachers are underpaid nationally, but also pay rates are both set by the CoL of the area.

[j.mo]

Some context needs to be applied here. A firefighter can make $160k, but will be working twice their amount of regularly scheduled hours in overtime. Truth is, battalion chiefs and division chief make that kind of cheese and that is also including overtime.

Teachers are underpaid nationally, but also pay rates are both set by the CoL of the area.

Yes. I should have added that.
Friends I know work a fair amount of OT.
I have police buddies too that are in the 180-300 range depending on department and OT.


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[larry_arizona]

Was married to a elementary school teacher for 15 years...under paid out of college but rapidly increases, once you reach tenure it’s a well paid profession with job security and a pension.

My ex was making $93k for 9.5 months work and a long summer off. Adjusted for a full year job, she was making equivalent to $116k IF teaching was a year round job. Not too shabby


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[sandm]

where the heck do you live? We paid 199,000 for 2217 sqft new build in a decently nice neighbor hood.


man...
I'd kill for a 200k house... we live in a 20+ year old neighborhood- very nice but old- and paid just south of $200/sqft for a single level that we are in the process of removing a LOT of brass :)
200k here in sin city is a decent small condo/townhouse or if you want single family, you're in the hood in a 12-1500sqft with maybe a single car garage and bars on all the windows.

[rdlangston13]

Yes. I should have added that.
Friends I know work a fair amount of OT.
I have police buddies too that are in the 180-300 range depending on department and OT.


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No wonder they are trying to tax yall to death

[j.mo]

No wonder they are trying to tax yall to death

No joke. Gas/diesel are just about $4 a gallon too lol.
Utility bills are about $500-700 a month. Sales tax 8%. All that money becomes relative in a hurry lol


Was married to a elementary school teacher for 15 years...under paid out of college but rapidly increases, once you reach tenure it’s a well paid profession with job security and a pension.

My ex was making $93k for 9.5 months work and a long summer off. Adjusted for a full year job, she was making equivalent to $116k IF teaching was a year round job. Not too shabby


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Ya, one of our friends teaches high school history and government. He’s my age, 30-31 or so. If I remember correctly he told me he only works about 180 days a year lol. 100k ain’t bad for 6 months of work.


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[MJHSupra]

Hmmm. I have several groups for friends that said they "had enough" of the CA living over the past few years. Moving out. Some to CO, AZ and TN.
And some friends from NYC area have moved. Several have been 'sticking it out' but are not enjoying it as they once did.

It mirrors what you hear on the national news in states where the population is dropping.

[j.mo]

Does anyone still feel the price spread between budget/premium brands is still relevant to what it used to be? Or has it become a runaway game.
Does anyone know a multiple factor say from Moomba/Supra in 2005 or so?
Axis/Malibu from their beginnings?
Even the NXT have seem to run away.


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[j.mo]

Hmmm. I have several groups for friends that said they "had enough" of the CA living over the past few years. Moving out. Some to CO, AZ and TN.
And some friends from NYC area have moved. Several have been 'sticking it out' but are not enjoying it as they once did.

It mirrors what you hear on the national news in states where the population is dropping.

I hear you. I am not from the land of hippies and communists, sorry, “environmentalists and progressives”
Have to make sure the thought police don’t label me a bigot.

I’ve been here 10 years and for about the last 3 I’ve really been trying to convince the big boss into Brentwood, Franklin, even Spring Hill.
The last 2 years it has gotten absolutely ridiculous here.


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[larry_arizona]

Some quick mental math tells me moombas cost 55% of a Supra based on MSRP.

2021
Base SA is $142k
Base Mojo is $79k

2018
Base SA was $121k
Base Mojo was?? $67k

Reality is nobody pays MSRP so that % probably increases to 68-70%??

I think the gap has remained steadyish

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[2in2out]

Some quick mental math tells me moombas cost 55% of a Supra based on MSRP.

2021
Base SA is $142k
Base Mojo is $79k

2018
Base SA was $121k
Base Mojo was?? $67k

Reality is nobody pays MSRP so that % probably increases to 68-70%??

I think the gap has remained steadyish

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If you based the cal a on used prices, I think the separation would narrow. More Moombas in the used market, but more demand because of lower price, which we’ve seen drives up prices, whereas the Supra price may be lower because less market to afford.

I would love to see the data on it, but I’ll admit I’m not willing to work to show it. I’m shopping for a house during a bubble again. My timing on buying everything sucks.

[MJHSupra]

The last 2 years it has gotten absolutely ridiculous here.

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Friends say the same thing word-for-word. Not just a COVID thing.

[Yzfguy06]

Friends say the same thing word-for-word. Not just a COVID thing.

The covid thing is just making the market worse. There will be a point this will all crash imo... There will be a flood of used stuff on the market so hopefully that will correct some of this.

[VA LSV]

Does anyone still feel the price spread between budget/premium brands is still relevant to what it used to be? Or has it become a runaway game.
Does anyone know a multiple factor say from Moomba/Supra in 2005 or so?
Axis/Malibu from their beginnings?
Even the NXT have seem to run away.


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Paid $38K all in for my well optioned LSV new in 05.

[sandm]

back in '07....

put in an offer on a '07 brand new lsv. pretty decently loaded but not topped out. $42k plus tax. dealer said no as they wanted 43k and told me boat was sold. dealer called back day after we wired deposit on supra and said 42 would take it. we passed.
ended up buying an '06 supra launch20ssv. it was sold as new but was brochure boat with just under 90hrs. we were first registered owner. fully loaded sans shower. paid $46k plus tax.
I don't believe based on msrp we got any break for it being a "used" boat but we were uneducated first owners that paid too much for the supra.

[sandm]

Even the NXT have seem to run away.



50k ALL DAY*


*price doesn't reflect trailer, ballast, tower, engine, upholstery, steering wheel and wiring.

[VA LSV]

Paid $38K all in for my well optioned LSV new in 05.

$38K included all taxes and title fees. Used my HELOC to purchase. Still enjoying it but not as much since the kids have grown up and moved away.

[j.mo]

Paid $38K all in for my well optioned LSV new in 05.
I was figuring and going to say 35k

50k ALL DAY*

*price doesn't reflect trailer, ballast, tower, engine, upholstery, steering wheel and wiring.

LMAO. I forgot about that.
What ever happened to that slogan!


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[larry_arizona]

Looks like it’s “70k all day” now


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[ejj]

No joke. Gas/diesel are just about $4 a gallon too lol.
Utility bills are about $500-700 a month. Sales tax 8%. All that money becomes relative in a hurry lol



Ya, one of our friends teaches high school history and government. He’s my age, 30-31 or so. If I remember correctly he told me he only works about 180 days a year lol. 100k ain’t bad for 6 months of work.


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There is more to it than that—otherwise lots of people would go for it.

[larry_arizona]

There is more to it than that—otherwise lots of people would go for it.

There is, you couldn’t pay me enough to deal with brats and their parents.

The politics is brutal.

180 class room days makes sense versus 220 calendar working days for a typical 9-5 office job.

Teachers only work 80% of the year.


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[MJHSupra]

Inventory still going down. 2,376 on onlyinboards - 02/08/2021.

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[Yzfguy06]

Inventory still going down. 2,376 on onlyinboards - 02/08/2021.

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Looks like it will be one more year til a boat is in my garage...

[sandm]

what's unknown are what the ACTUAL numbers were from prior years. when I shopped on onlyinboards in the past there were always quite a bit of ads that had been put up and never taken down. it doesn't appear that ian cleans house much on there but more relies on the seller to remove ads.
my gut is as covid started and boat sales took off, people were calling the old ads on a hope that they were still available which prompted people to remove them.

I suspect that there were never really over 5000 ads "active" in years past. go to the last page and there's some steals from early 2020 that I would bet money are not still for sale from that owner. still a hot market for sure....

[zabooda]

Do you think these people had a tough time in school staying on subject? Geeez.

[Jason1975]

Just saw someone say they were quoted $150k for an nxt 22? What has this world come too??????

[HFarr]

I'm sorry, but the nxt line is just too plain on the looks and options. Moomba beats them all day long in every way for the money! We looked at them closely before we bought our boat earlier this year.

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[WildH]

I'm sorry, but the nxt line is just too plain on the looks and options. Moomba beats them all day long in every way for the money! We looked at them closely before we bought our boat earlier this year.

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Agree! I looked closely at them both and it was significantly overpriced IMHO.

[SSurfer321]

Agree! I looked closely at them both and it was significantly overpriced IMHO.

Their pricing was almost competitive with Moomba two years ago, when I was shopping. Looked at a few and thought about ordering one. I was willing to pay what I thought was a small Mastercraft premium. Then I realized their advertised pricing did not include the trailer. Basic trailer was over $5k. Noped right out of there and so glad I did.