SL vs SE

[Rush]

Going to be ordering a new boat shortly. Torn between SE and SL. Beyond the obvious of the SE being a foot longer, and the bow/cockpit configuration, are there any differences?

[larry_arizona]

A few things.....

SE is deeper and won’t fit in an 8 foot garage door.

SE has 600# more stock ballast but also needs it due to being bigger.

SE has 2x12” subs, SL has 2x10’s

SE base engine is 450, SL base is 400.


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[larry_arizona]

Only $3860 price difference. My opinion is it truly boils down to which one you think looks better. Both will provide pro level wave.


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[Isaguel]

You can build them both pretty much the same. There's the obvious difference in hull design. You can save 8k by choosing the SL and getting the 400 engine with upgraded prop, which is more than sufficient for that boat. The wave is user dependent. You can make a great wave with the SL.
If you're not hauling and you're leaving it at a lake property, the extra room of the SE would be very useful. IMO, if you're leaving it in place, the SE is the way to go.
Both boats are great though.

[Rush]

You can build them both pretty much the same. There's the obvious difference in hull design. You can save 8k by choosing the SL and getting the 400 engine with upgraded prop, which is more than sufficient for that boat. The wave is user dependent. You can make a great wave with the SL.
If you're not hauling and you're leaving it at a lake property, the extra room of the SE would be very useful. IMO, if you're leaving it in place, the SE is the way to go.
Both boats are great though.

It sits on a lift most of the summer. Leaning toward the SE. thanks

[2in2out]

It sits on a lift most of the summer. Leaning toward the SE. thanks

A properly ballasted (with lead) and equipped SE will tip the scales at 8000+ lbs. make sure your lift can accommodate the additional weight. Multiple posts about lifts exist in the forum. 1500lb residual on lift capacity to equipped boat weight seems the usual system-safety factor. Hate to see a new $200k boat under a collapsed lift.

[larry_arizona]

Both are incredible boats, post pics of your build[emoji106]


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[MJHSupra]

Having surfed both and owning a SL, the SE has a more powerful wave. You can make the SE steep.

SL has a smoother transition.

The 450 package and new transmission package is more than powerful enough if you run a large crew or want to toss in the add'l 1k ballast.


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[Rush]

Both are incredible boats, post pics of your build[emoji106]


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What we’re thinking

[Isaguel]

What we’re thinking

Love the colors. I wanted the black and red interior in our SL until I was over ruled by the wife and daughter. I think it looks great.
Only one thought on an otherwise awesome build, consider the clamping racks. The clamping racks from PTM are great. I had the bungie on my Mojo and replaced the bungies as they shred and weaken. It is far more expensive to buy the clamping ones later if you decide you want to upgrade. Plus, on such an awesome boat, why not!. But otherwise, the bungie racks are good, they work, and the replacement bungies only run about 40-50 bucks I think.

[Prospersigman]

Colors will look incredible on the water, I have the Gunmetal flake and it is amazing, it changes colors depending on the lighting.

Only change I would make is lose the Supra roost decal and save yourself a grand...put that toward the PTM clampers or 1000lbs of lead. Decals show the age of the boat very rapidly and do not wear well...you have all the beautiful gunmetal flake why cover it up with a flat black sticker.

[larry_arizona]

Love the color combo!!!!

Gunmetal pops on the water.


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[MJHSupra]

I like the clamping racks too. So much, I found a set of upper board racks from a dealer online that had them discounted.

[larry_arizona]

Yes, the clamping board racks are awesome.

For sure add the 4 JL tower speakers, they are a PITA to add after the fact.


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[Rush]

Colors will look incredible on the water, I have the Gunmetal flake and it is amazing, it changes colors depending on the lighting.

Only change I would make is lose the Supra roost decal and save yourself a grand...put that toward the PTM clampers or 1000lbs of lead. Decals show the age of the boat very rapidly and do not wear well...you have all the beautiful gunmetal flake why cover it up with a flat black sticker.

I was debating on the decal. I’ll leave it off. On my build the dealer has I have the clamping racks, and 4 tower speakers. Only thing I’m debating now is which engine.

[2in2out]

I would opt for the 450 for resale value. Because of the altitude we boat at, I completely excluded 400’s from my search. A number of people say the 400 has plenty of pull, but I wasn’t willing to chance it.

[larry_arizona]

I would say engine choice is all about your elevation.

Low elevation buyers likely won’t want to spend the extra $8500 in the used market.

But at high elevation, used buyers won’t want a 400.


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[Prospersigman]

550 is a badass...I have it and love it. Most on here will tell you its overkill, I think it's a no brainer on a SE to go 550.

[Rush]

I would opt for the 450 for resale value. Because of the altitude we boat at, I completely excluded 400’s from my search. A number of people say the 400 has plenty of pull, but I wasn’t willing to chance it.

Is there really noticeable difference between the 400 and the 450? I’m at 2300 feet, and my max surfs fine with the 400 with 6500 lbs of ballast. I’m thinking if I go 450, I’m going to just take the leap to 550

[larry_arizona]

Is there really noticeable difference between the 400 and the 450? I’m at 2300 feet, and my max surfs fine with the 400 with 6500 lbs of ballast. I’m thinking if I go 450, I’m going to just take the leap to 550

2300 feet should be fine with the 400 with 1.76 trans and the 16x13.9 prop.

450 just gives you some more wiggle room and if money is no object, 550 it is.


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[Prospersigman]

I thought the OP was building an SE? 400 is not an option on the SE, it's 450 or 550.

[larry_arizona]

Op’s build pictures are an SL


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[2in2out]

Is there really noticeable difference between the 400 and the 450? I’m at 2300 feet, and my max surfs fine with the 400 with 6500 lbs of ballast. I’m thinking if I go 450, I’m going to just take the leap to 550

If elevation isn’t an issue, I would go with the 400. If money isn’t an issue, go full baller and get the 550. My wife and I considered an SA 550, but it came down to coloring and a $8500 difference, and resale value based on our current local.

The addition of extra components adds the issues of complexity and opportunity for failure. I ride consistently in the shadow of a black cloud, so I have to take those things into consideration. I’m also 3 hrs away from a service center, so I didn’t need any additional opportunity for failure.

[Rush]

I thought the OP was building an SE? 400 is not an option on the SE, it's 450 or 550.
Was debating SL or SE, was leaning towards SL, and my dealer didn’t have any SE build slots, only SL and SA. Made the decision for me

[MJHSupra]

I have the 400 and the 2018 SL with the 1.5 trans package. I do not have trouble surfing and do carry a bunch of people.
I cannot run full ballast at wakeboard speeds. Boat will struggle to get on plane. But I DO NOT need to run full ballast when wakeboarding. I use about 7 to 7.5 of pitch and usually 1/3 ballast - plenty for me.

If I were to design one new, it would be the SL450. But I would also be keeping the boat for awhile.

For people that turn-over boats each year, they have told me you do not get your money back from motor upgrades - 400 to 450.

if I had the SE, it would be hard to choose between the 450 and 550. 550 dollars are steep.

[larry_arizona]

If you can wakeboard full ballast, you are badass.....lol

But I can concur the 400/1.5 not pulling full ballast at 24mph in an SA.

But 1/2 ballast is insane already to wakeboard.


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[MJHSupra]

But 1/2 ballast is insane already to wakeboard.

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For Sure . . .

[Isaguel]

Dude, since its your money and not mine, I say 550 all---day---long baby!!!! Yeah!!

[larry_arizona]

Yep 550!!! Full Send!


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[larry_arizona]

Rush,

I took the liberty of tweaking some things on your build to add a little more detail.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210109/8777db66842caf2327e0f7f3a669111e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210109/8227e84467e7d681b8a76e8b7ef6ee79.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210109/46b3725c19bd159bc3704d148045d194.jpg


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[Rush]

Rush,

I took the liberty of tweaking some things on your build to add a little more detail.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210109/8777db66842caf2327e0f7f3a669111e.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210109/8227e84467e7d681b8a76e8b7ef6ee79.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210109/46b3725c19bd159bc3704d148045d194.jpg


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Thank you. Looks good

[Isaguel]

That interior is killer.

[larry_arizona]

I am telling you that tricolor gatorstep is TITS!!!


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[Isaguel]

Ok, my opinion, delete the 4 tower speakers for 2. Its pretty loud. Instead use that money towards the integrated thruster. You can always add the speakers later but you cant add an integrated thruster. Maybe you can get it discounted if its in the build. Its the one thing I would get if I was building one today.

[larry_arizona]

You can add the 2 speakers later, but the cost is prohibitive.

Requires an amp upgrade $$ and the factory speaker mounts are not available aftermarket.

You can use JL pipe mounts, but it offsets the speakers, not a bad thing exactly, just not factory.

It’s also not 100% plug and play but not too bad if you source the connectors.


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[2in2out]

I would opt for the 400, keep the 4 tower speakers and get the thruster option. Of all options I wish I could add, the thruster is #1

[larry_arizona]

I would opt for the 400, keep the 4 tower speakers and get the thruster option. Of all options I wish I could add, the thruster is #1

I agree with this


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[Rush]

I’m going to do 4 tower speakers, clamping racks, 450, debating thrusters, I’ve never needed them, but would my wife a much more useful driver

[larry_arizona]

I’m going to do 4 tower speakers, clamping racks, 450, debating thrusters, I’ve never needed them, but would my wife a much more useful driver

Going to be a sweet build.


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[2in2out]

I’m going to do 4 tower speakers, clamping racks, 450, debating thrusters, I’ve never needed them, but would my wife a much more useful driver

When I showed my wife (the primary boat driver) the video on the thrusters, she asked if we could add that. She almost gave authorization for a new build. Get her the thrusters.

[larry_arizona]

My understanding is the supplier of the Supra Thrusters will be offering an aftermarket kit for pre 2021 Supras.

It may not include the twist throttle integration.


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[Isaguel]

OK, I get it, but at least you can upgrade. The thruster though, is quite practical and although you may be able to add one aftermarket later, it wont be integrated into the vision system and wont be operated on the throttle lever. I think Supra has the best integration for the thruster controller on the throttle lever knob, everyone else has a knob on the dash. You can throttle and use the thruster at same time with one hand, excellent application.

[2in2out]

My understanding is the supplier of the Supra Thrusters will be offering an aftermarket kit for pre 2021 Supras.

It may not include the twist throttle integration.


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Not having the throttle integration causes it to have lackluster appeal. Thrusters are great, but the control is what set it apart. If it’s like other thruster options, it seems more of a distraction.

[larry_arizona]

I agree that Supras thruster integration is the best of the available systems.

Hence why I ordered the option on my build.


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[Isaguel]

Good, I'm glad this is settled.
Now Rush, as a concerned fellow boater, I want to share an advise. Dump the 450 and put that money towards the thruster. I think you said you're at 2500ft elevation. You will not see a significant difference between the two engines. It only costs 80$ for the upgraded prop, you'll need it.
If you go for the 400, you will not find yourself regretting getting it. But if you don't get the thruster, one day when you're pulling up to a busy lakeside restaurant and you're maneuvering in between other boats and tight dock spots, having your boat mates stand in the four corners of your boat to keep from hitting the boat parked next you you or that one sharp edge of the dock, or when you're loading your boat on a windy day and you have to go back and forth because because the wind keeps pushing your tail end sideways, you WILL wish you had that thruster, and when you get that nice scratch on the gelcoat, you will kick yourself in the A**.
That is why one cannot look at the 8k for the thruster as overpriced, you are NOT paying for the device, you are paying for the tremendous convenience and the ability to preserve your gelcoat which itself is very expensive to repair.
I just built my boat a year ago so it is very hard to try to justify doing it again. But I still have one more boat in me. I planned to keep it for at least 5 yrs, but, if at any time my better financial judgement fails and I decide to upgrade sooner, it'll be because of the thruster, nothing else. I have never missed not having the 450 engine.

Now, if cost is not a barrier, then do both, I would.

[larry_arizona]

I love spending other people’s money......that said in order.

1) thrusters $8770 MSRP, but we know nobody pays MSRP.

2)450 $8740, see MSRP disclaimer above....

3) both 1&2 if you have the means.


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[Rush]

So, I’m still debating the 550. How much more fuel does it use? It’s not really a cost thing, more it’s a pain in the ass to fuel boats on our lake as everything has to be walked down by gerry can.

[j.mo]

I love spending other people’s money......that said in order.

1) thrusters $8770 MSRP, but we know nobody pays MSRP.

2)450 $8740, see MSRP disclaimer above....

3) both 1&2 if you have the means.


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It’s not 8 grand..it’s 25 bucks a month [emoji23]
It’s not that no one pays msrp, it’s that no one looks [emoji1787]


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[2in2out]

Get the SE with the extra 10 gal. of fuel capacity, and the 550, and don’t worry about it. I bet you can pull all day and not empty the tank.

[larry_arizona]

I could not imagine burning 60-70 gallons in a day......lol


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