2021 Max Vs 2019 S238

[Josh828]

Alright so my budget is 80k and not a cent more haha
Been searching since august and exploring the forums but finally just needing some other opinions

Went to buy cash in hand (down payment) a 2019 S238, I love the supreme almost pulled the trigger on a 2020 photoshoot boat however waited around for a mojo and it sold. Haven't yet even got a supreme on the water nor will probably have the chance due to how hard they are to find and the 2019 is already winterized.

The 2019 S238 is pretty well optioned with the 450HP motor and a massive audio factory upgrade ect original msrp was 107k
However.. the dealer just got it for trade and told me it had around 100 hours on it. When I showed up I found out it actually had 264 hours.
The price was and still is "low 70s" but the hours scared me off so I went back to the local Moomba dealer.

https://www.carolinawatersportsmarine.com/default.asp?page=xInventoryDetail&id=5895084&p=1&make=supreme%20boats&s=Year&d=D&model=s238&fr=xCustomInventory

Built a 2021 Max with limited options (got zero off and few other hard to add on laters) Absolutely no audio upgrades as I plan on doing it my self to save some cash. But the boat came out to around 78-79k. which I was stoked about. Really trying to keep the boat at $500 a month not trying to be boat poor.

This is my first boat however I want to do it right, is 264 hours to many? Will the Moomba hold its value due to low hours and 2 years newer.
I plan on keeping the boat 3-7 years. Only will be doing surfing.

Thanks for the help, just a 25 year old scared to spend money and advice is appreciated (unless its not buy a boat, tired of hearing that haha)

[Prospersigman]

As I am sure you are aware, you will receive a "somewhat" biased response on a Moomba forum, but with that said I would no doubt go for a 2 year newer boat that has 0 hours on it made by Skiers Choice over the Supreme...it is not even close. If you are good with the looks of the Max, some love it, some don't...I fall into the don't category. But if you are good with the styling/look of the Max, then go Max. It is a far superior built product and it should hold its value more than the Supreme. You should also have a much better dealer network with the Max.

[haknslash]

Which dealer do you feel will support you after the sale? That can be the deciding factor more than the boat brand. Not saying these things break just saying you want to go with the dealer that will go to bat for you if you do run into problems. Also factor in which service dept gives you the best ease of mind if they work on your boat.

As for Supreme or Moomba I also looked at Supreme when I was shopping. Some things I liked about them and other things I didn’t like. I liked the deep v hull and quick fill option but I didn’t like the interior and the boat I looked at I wasn’t impressed with the gel coat finish from the factory. That was a few years ago so things might have changed. It kind of reminded me of a boat that is one tick above an Axis boat quality which IMO is not that great. Ultimately we picked the Max over the Supreme because it seemed a slightly better all around package in terms of quality and potential. The deep storage really gets used on our boat and I once I added ballast the wave really woke up. These days the Max comes with more factory ballast so you’re set there for the most part.

It really would help you to water test both boats and go with your gut. The deep V of the supreme will handle chop a little better but it’s also going to be more weight sensitive side to side and from videos I’ve seen you’ll still need to list them more than say a Moomba. I’m not sure how high the bow rides on a Supreme vs Moomba but if Supreme hull is like Centurion it might have to ride real high. Def do a water test if you can. That all being said I think the new Max is the better boat. Trying my best to not be biased as I crawled around all of these boats a lot when shopping for years. The changes to the new Max are all of the things I wished mine would have had at the time. Get the 7” screen option for sure.

[Josh828]

Yeah I realized everyone here would be slightly biased, however that brings in the network, I have two Moomba dealers near me and obviously just this forum is a resource that should be noted. The supreme dealers are harder to come by and work with for sure. I actually thought the supreme would hold its value better its just the hours that are turning me off. However the 450HP is huge for me, I'm a big power junkie but have no idea how that will play out vs the Moombas 350hp in the real world. I have heard the 400hp supremes are "underpowered". And the 6 wet sounds speakers, 12" sub and 4 10" tower wet sounds also add some icing to the cake.

With the max I will be getting a flawless boat but not little gadgets and I will have to fork out to do my own audio, and probably under water lights down the road.

My real fear is the max won't surf as well nor have the power for massive amounts of ballast and crew

[larry_arizona]

What engine is in the supreme?


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[haknslash]

Torque is what it’s all about with these boats vs horsepower. I’m not sure where you’re t in the Carolina and what elevation but the Raptor engines are no slouch on power. Don’t let the 350 hp fool you. There is a reason why all of these engines use the torque number to round out the model number than the horsepower. There are guys that have well over 5k-6k lbs of ballast on their Max. The newer Max also has the better trans gear ratio which opens up prop options and pulling power (torque) vs rpm. What engine does that Supreme have because I don’t remember them having 450 hp?

[haknslash]

What engine is in the supreme?


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I think they come with the 409 hp PCM motor but I could be wrong. It’s been a while since I looked at them.

[Josh828]

What engine is in the supreme?


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GM 6.0 L96 I believe

[larry_arizona]

LS 6.0 is a solid engine, but I would prefer the raptor and I am technically a GM guy.


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[haknslash]

“Powered by GM Marine Crusader Engines from PCM, the S238 comes standard with the forceful EX3 engine, optimized by a 1.72 X 1 gear reduction and specific propping for instantaneous take-offs. You can upgrade to the GM Marine H5DI or H6DI by PCM with S-Force for even more pulling power. Supreme Force (S-Force) is torque optimized propping and gearing to fully utilize the extremely efficient power of a direct injection GM engine. With 5 years of warranty these engines provide as much piece of mind as they do mind-blowing performance.”

[haknslash]

Not sure if it’s the same motor as the Axis A22 I demoed once but it had a GM engine and was woefully underpowered if you had ballast full, wedge and surf gate deployed. Raptor would run circles around that thing.

[larry_arizona]

If OP said 450hp then it’s the H6DI.

450hp 465tq is legit.

Not a fan of DI and personally would prefer an iron block in a wakeboat.


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[Josh828]

I think they come with the 409 hp PCM motor but I could be wrong. It’s been a while since I looked at them.

That is the standard engine, this one does have the engine upgrade to the 450

[haknslash]

Gotcha. I’m not familiar with all the GM offerings.

[sandm]

supreme builds a great boat and since being bought by correct craft(nautique) their fit and finish along with centurion has come a long way.
the 238 hull has been around for a minute and is not their latest and greatest hull. for that you need the zs series.
I wouldn't let the gm engine push you away either. seems these boats go back and forth between ford and gm every dozen years and both make good engines. there are def. pros and cons to each and for every "I hate gm" posts there's another "I hate raptor" posts on another forum. props can make a big difference in engine performance as well.

that said if it was my monies, it would be a no brainer putting a deposit on a new build-get what you want-no hours-newer hull design moomba over a used 238. there are enough pics from hack of how the max surfs. the 238 is a beast of a boat and will hold a party of people but just remember, the more you invite, the less time you get to spend surfing :)
that you mention 2 moomba dealers locally would be the icing on the cake. local dealers are a nice to have, not need to have but if given your choices, it would seal the deal for us.
I wouldn't let a big stereo be the deal breaker. you can always add stereo. you can't add warranty, newer hull shapes, different tech, etc......

[haknslash]

Good point bringing up the warranty. 7 years on the Indmar powertrain vs 5 on the PCM. As you also pointed out having two Moomba dealers close-by helps make the decision easier as well.

[Josh828]

Thanks guys, I mean that's what I've been thinking just needed to hear it one more time.
Now I already have the dealer looking at a new Mojo for me..

$78k for the max Limited options. No audio.
$84K for the mojo with slightly more options but still no Audio and no 3.0 surf

[brad460]

Thanks guys, I mean that's what I've been thinking just needed to hear it one more time.
Now I already have the dealer looking at a new Mojo for me..

$78k for the max Limited options. No audio.
$84K for the mojo with slightly more options but still no Audio and no 3.0 surf

Are these negotiated prices? Or spec’d out prices plus freight/setup?

You should be able to get a 7 or 8+ % discount...

[jason1973]

The raptor should get the 7 year warranty. That matters. How deep are the lakes you go to? i believe Supreme has much more draft than the moomba lineup. Just something to think about. I say go with the dealer you trust. That is one of the biggest decisions.

[j.mo]

I am not brand biased to either but I’ll throw my 2 cents in for what it’s worth.

The supreme like others have said, again is going to be a centurion-esque deep v hull. Which is nice.
The S238 is also a larger boat, which IMO if you are concerned about resale is a plus. Not to mention your enjoyment with space.
The LS IMO is preferred. A more reliable power plant than the DOHC raptor from Ford. Ls are very simple, great engines.

The Moomba side- my opinion. Best brand in the “budget” space. They get more tech, better finishes, killer interiors by comparison to the rest of the budget space.
And the Supra line really trickles down into them.

The max is a pretty small boat. My vote would be to work some OT or eat some top ramen for a bit and hop into a mojo. Because that is more comparable to the 238 IMO.

However, my disclaimer is, I’m a if I’m going to do/spend X, I might as well do/spend Y and go for it. If you’re already there. Do it right.

I’ve had two 21ft boats. Wouldn’t do it again. Wouldn’t go less than 23, I now have a 24.

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[larry_arizona]

The LS IMO is preferred. A more reliable power plant than the DOHC raptor from Ford. Ls are very simple.
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Technically the raptor is a SOHC and the H6DI
is the new GM LT and very complex compared to that old LS.

Simplicity favors the raptor in this case.


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[Guppydriver]

I put an offer in on a S238 in September. I thought it was very reasonable, and was surprised when the local dealer turned it down. In hindsight I’m glad they did, but make no mistake, Supreme makes a nice boat. A lot of features and build characteristics have trickled down from Centurion, just like Supra has gifted Moomba some sweet hand me downs.

A couple of things off the top of my head about the Supreme....
Pros-
-The S238 is a big boat. It’s in the 24 foot class while the Max is more than a foot shorter (although it doesn’t feel like it).
-The HO upgraded engine is legit. It’s a more powerful engine and you will feel the difference compared to a 400 Raptor. (I agree with Hack and sandm that the standard 409 is Pepsi/Coke with the Raptor). The standard engine is moot in your case as the boat has the HO. The GM I believe is quieter, but I’m no expert.
-That sound system you speak of is called the executive package. It’s very, very rare on S238’s and also quite rare on ZS models. It’s comparable (or better) to the highest end systems you find on the Premium towboats like Supra, Malibu, and MasterCraft. It has 4 REV 10’S and 2 12” inch subs. It will completely eviscerate anything found in the other “entry level” manufacturer lines from Moomba, Axis, MB and ATX. I’ve heard it at the boat show next to high end brands and it’s legit. When I built mine on paper, I think the exec package was like 5k more than the already sweet and expensive mid level option.
-Bombshell racks (if so equipped) are some of the nicest racks available at any price point.
-Fit and finish are not the Supreme of 10 years ago. It’s well made with good materials (especially the vinyl and thread)

However.... The cons

- Sandm pointed this out. The S238 feels like a “last generation” boat. It’s like a Tundra in the half ton pickup world. It’s nice, it has some fans, but it’s old. Supreme doesn’t seem too interested in investing much into it. Supreme is pushing the Zeus hard. Check out their insta page, you don't even see them posting S238’s, everything is the ZS (which is a legit modern day design surf boat).
- The S238 requires a lot of work to surf well. Read their forums and FB pages. Many are adding 700-800 pounds of lead plus upgraded rear and side locker bags to get it to surf with push. It’s just not that heavy for how long it is. I know many change the bags in the Max, but it doesn’t require nearly the effort to get a decent wave dialed up as the S238
-Freeboard is lacking. Like I said, it looks very shallow in the water compared to most brands. (Although the interior is deep)
-Helm screen looks like it was designed as an afterthought- No slide back rear seat- Storage is shallow compared to the Max

I don’t own a SC product yet so I think I can be pretty objective since I darn near bought both of the boats you are looking at...
1. The Max is a better surf boat. I think you will be happier for your intended mission with a new Moomba designed by...well..you.
2. I would look at the S238 only if you are avid audiophile and put extra value in the sound system AND if they gave you an absolutely ridiculous offer on it .....one that really created a significant delta between the Moomba and the Supreme. Otherwise, the Moomba would be my recommendation.

Good Luck and Cograts no matter what. Heck, when I was 25, I was still trying to figure out how to pay to for cable.

[DNIXD99]

I cant really add anything, as I dont know anything about the Supreme.

If you go with the Max, get the G6 system. Its a must have for surfing, and resale IMO

[Josh828]

Well guys, lots of changes, after viewing another thread of mojo vs max I sent a mojo build over to my dealer. They not only got back to me with a great price imo but they had just got their first 2021 Mojo in that day, It wouldn't be rigged and ready for a water test for a few days but my dealer really busted butt and got it ready for me take out the next day. In fact i believe several employees worked over yesterday to make all of this happen.
All this time I had a unanswered text from the supreme dealer and the next day a last minute phone call that also went unanswered.

The 2021 Mojo is a beautiful boat so I ordered one.

Look forward to being part of the moomba family!

For the purposes of this thread I think I liked the supreme over the max however the mojo is indeed the real competitor, and then all the moomba advantages really out weighed it.

[Guppydriver]

Congrats! Amazing boat!

The Supreme shows sold anyway, which means...

“It was meant to be ...it was meant to be....baby it was meant to be”

[arsnlgunnr]

Well guys, lots of changes, after viewing another thread of mojo vs max I sent a mojo build over to my dealer. They not only got back to me with a great price imo but they had just got their first 2021 Mojo in that day, It wouldn't be rigged and ready for a water test for a few days but my dealer really busted butt and got it ready for me take out the next day. In fact i believe several employees worked over yesterday to make all of this happen.
All this time I had a unanswered text from the supreme dealer and the next day a last minute phone call that also went unanswered.

The 2021 Mojo is a beautiful boat so I ordered one.

Look forward to being part of the moomba family!

For the purposes of this thread I think I liked the supreme over the max however the mojo is indeed the real competitor, and then all the moomba advantages really out weighed it.

Congrats Josh! Thanks for letting me hop on during your demo!:D

Looking forward to seeing pics when you take delivery!

[haknslash]

Congrats!!

[Josh828]

Congrats Josh! Thanks for letting me hop on during your demo!:D

Looking forward to seeing pics when you take delivery!

Glad you came! It was nice that you had done your research and could point out all the new features!

[BigOrange]

Awesome Man! Welcome to Moomba and the forum.

[Isaguel]

Congrats to both of you. Mojo is the pearl of the Moomba line. The Mojo owners are starting to add up, and not surprising. Moomba knew well this boat was going to be a success and their best seller, that's why they took the extra time to perfect it before release.
We loved our Mojo and this new one is sooo much nicer. You wont regret it. I'm a huge Mojo fan and can't wait to see one on the water. Just hoping someone I know will buy one so I can ride it.