A VERY bad day on the lake!

[996scott]

First off, and most importantly, no one was hurt and everyone is just fine who was involved in this. We were at Lake Powell over the weekend down a canyon having lunch and chilling. We were getting ready to start heading back up the canyon to the main channel when a nice Mastercraft came past us (6-7 guys in it ). Within 1-2 minutes of passing us I gave it some gas and started heading off. Immediately someone in my boat yelled and pointed up about 500 yards and all we could see was a huge ball of fire and black smoke everywhere. I booked it as fast as i could go up canyon. There were 3 guys swimming away from the boat and a few more swimming to the rocks. They immediately said that everyone was ok and no one was hurt. They climbed on our boat and we checked everyone out. They said that they all of the sudden heard a loud bang and turned around to see the whole engine compartment engulfed in flames. They grabbed life vests and jumped off and started swimming as fast as they could. Absolutely incredible to see this entire boat engulfed in flames and burning. The tower completely melted and the fiberglass just burned and burned and burned. It was unbelievable to see this happen in person. BE SAFE OUT THERE EVERYONE!!!!

[larry_arizona]

Wow that is unreal, glad everyone was ok and kudos for the fast response your crew provided.

Fuel leak or threw a rod?


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[Isaguel]

Fuel fumes in the engine compartment?
Man, that is crazy. Newer Supra's turn on the blower automatically when starting the engine. Always wondered if I should run the blower periodically during a long day on the lake.

[larry_arizona]

Blower won’t fix a sudden fuel leak on a fuel injected boat.

High pressure fuel pump would flood that hull in a hurry causing a large fire.


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[996scott]

The guy said he believed it was a fuel leak. He said that when they filled up the last time one of the guys said he thought he smelled gas but that they didn't think much of it since "you always get a gas smell when filling up". With 90 gallons of gas on board there was a lot of fuel to burn.

[larry_arizona]

Only place you should smell fuel in a boat is near the gas tank vent.

Even a small leak on a fuel injected boat is a huge problem. Rail pressures are 50-60psi, that will move a lot of fuel into the engine bay if there is a leak.

I check for leaks randomly throughout the season. Just follow the fuels lines with a flashlight.

Right in the manual #5 on checklist.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201014/6e336c92d51fee4fbe818c926c6d1a18.jpg


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[dewey.elsik]

Fuel fumes in the engine compartment?
Man, that is crazy. Newer Supra's turn on the blower automatically when starting the engine. Always wondered if I should run the blower periodically during a long day on the lake.

I believe he said they were under way!


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[Guppydriver]

That must have been incredibly intense to witness. Glad you were there to offer assistance.

[z28ke]

Must have gone up in flames very fast as it appears they didn’t even have time to get the boards out of the racks! Crazy

[zabooda]

Price of these boats you would think they would have a hazardous environment interlock as they cannot make the engine compartment intrinsically safe. Boat manufacturers need to wise up.

[larry_arizona]

Price of these boats you would think they would have a hazardous environment interlock as they cannot make the engine compartment intrinsically safe. Boat manufacturers need to wise up.

That would be extremely challenging.

Fuel injection on a boat has been a significant challenge since boat makers started using it.

Carb engines hold zero fuel line pressure when engine is off, EFI holds 40-60psi when off. That is challenge #1.

My theory on this incident was simply a pinhole leak at a fitting or worn fuel line. Underway at speed fuel pressure would be at 60psi spraying a piss stream of raw fuel into the hull until hot exhaust caused a flame.

Perhaps an automatic fire suppression system would have been the solution, especially if it was a halon system.

I believe Supra offers an automatic fire suppression system.


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[yearround]

Hey Scott! where were you for this? we were in LP last weekend also. not near as eventful as you, but we did observe a Supreme pulling a wakeboarder strike a submerged rock (about rm 83) stopped the boat. launched a passenger over the bow in the water. they started taking on lots of water. we helped escort the boat to a shallow shelf to let it sink/stabilize in a recoverable condition. shuttled the passengers to their HB in Annies. The group had just arrived that day. nobody injured. the thrown guy was very rattled. our Supreme people at first thanked us off saying no need for help, but quickly called us back.

Glad you could help the people. pretty exciting to see such a thing, safely.

[sandm]

sucks for those involved and glad you were there to assist.

looking at that tower and graphics, that boat is a good 10 years old easily. lots of things could have caused that. no one will ever know.....

[zabooda]

That would be extremely challenging.

Fuel injection on a boat has been a significant challenge since boat makers started using it.

Carb engines hold zero fuel line pressure when engine is off, EFI holds 40-60psi when off. That is challenge #1.

My theory on this incident was simply a pinhole leak at a fitting or worn fuel line. Underway at speed fuel pressure would be at 60psi spraying a piss stream of raw fuel into the hull until hot exhaust caused a flame.

Perhaps an automatic fire suppression system would have been the solution, especially if it was a halon system.

I believe Supra offers an automatic fire suppression system.


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It may not be too difficult as OSHA requires detection in certain applications and the sensors are low voltage by design. It would be better to sense prior to the 25% of the LFL and operate the fan and send a warning message. In most cases opening the engine compartment, airing it out and keeping the engine cover open may be all that is needed to limp back. Pitching safety systems on sales works.

[Branden967]

Im always surprised at how quickly fires roar on boats. I've seen 3 boats burn on the water and all of them have burnt to the water level in 10-15 minutes tops....I told the family if there's ever a fire on board, grab a life jacket if possible and jump out.... Scary stuff, glad everyone's Ok.

[larry_arizona]

Fiberglass is interesting.

The glass fibers are not flammable but will melt, but the resin is highly flammable.

After seeing this fire, I am starting to consider the Supra optional automatic fire suppression system, it’s only $570


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[Branden967]

Ive always considered putting something like this in my engine compartment. I dont think it would completely put out a major fire, but it may buy the occupants some time.

https://www.amazon.com/BlazeCut-Automatic-Suppression-Automotive-Extinguisher/dp/B019ZZMXAA?th=1

[larry_arizona]

This might work too.

AFG FIREBALL MINI-Fire Extinguisher Ball, Red | Automatic Fire Extinguisher Ball with Hanging Loop and Glow-in-the-Dark Safety Sign Sticker | Ideal for Home, RV, Car, Boat and more https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07XV7H1GJ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_Ri0HFbE7S72K0


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[996scott]

Hey Scott! where were you for this? we were in LP last weekend also. not near as eventful as you, but we did observe a Supreme pulling a wakeboarder strike a submerged rock (about rm 83) stopped the boat. launched a passenger over the bow in the water. they started taking on lots of water. we helped escort the boat to a shallow shelf to let it sink/stabilize in a recoverable condition. shuttled the passengers to their HB in Annies. The group had just arrived that day. nobody injured. the thrown guy was very rattled. our Supreme people at first thanked us off saying no need for help, but quickly called us back.

Glad you could help the people. pretty exciting to see such a thing, safely.

We were in 7 Mile Canyon up towards Good Hope Bay. Glad you guys were able to help out the Supreme, that can be scary running into something underwater. I absolutely love Powell, but i am always a little nervous out there on the water for fear of submerged rocks. Can be very sketchy out there.

[smitty75]

It may not be too difficult as OSHA requires detection in certain applications and the sensors are low voltage by design. It would be better to sense prior to the 25% of the LFL and operate the fan and send a warning message. In most cases opening the engine compartment, airing it out and keeping the engine cover open may be all that is needed to limp back. Pitching safety systems on sales works.

Speaking my language lol. Have to quote NFPA 497 on a daily basis with chemical safety design. We work with a lot of chemical and industrial equipment manufacturers doing installation and design oversight. We always alarm and increase ventilation at 10-15%, then start disabling ignition sources at 25%. At 75%, time to jump off the boat...

Sucks the boat went up but glad everyone is ok.


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[larry_arizona]

Is anyone familiar with the Supra automatic fire suppression?

I think newer master crafts come standard with fire suppression

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[larry_arizona]

The auto fire suppression is a 2.7% take rate for Supras, some lakes and or countries require them.

That’s about 10-12 boats per year.


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[Guppydriver]

The auto fire suppression is a 2.7% take rate for Supras, some lakes and or countries require them.

That’s about 10-12 boats per year.


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I'm sure because the percentage of boats that actually need them is, thankfully, far less. I imagine the Moomba take rate is even less. I think it will require government regulation to get them in boats. Too many other options to spend your money on for most boaters. I think the the manufacturers should step up and make them standard, it would be good marketing to claim to be the "only brand that that doesn't make safety optional" or something to that effect. It's just a fire loop attached to a bottle, I don't think it would cost much at all.

The other thing is, with the rise in surfing popularity, many of the boat owners who traditionally stayed at the helm and knew more about their boat and it's safety features now find themselves in the water, with a less experienced "co-captain" at the controls. I think the auto fire suppression is a great idea, BUT...that being said..as someone on a pretty tight budget...I'm not sure I would order one. I don't know why I just typed that...I know I wouldn't order it.

[larry_arizona]

If they were standard the MSRP would reflect it, so the option makes more sense to me.


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[dakota4ce]

I checked that box on the Max. Auto extinguisher in the motor compartment.


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[larry_arizona]

I checked that box on the Max. Auto extinguisher in the motor compartment.


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Can you snap a couple pics of the system, I would like to see it before I check the box


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[zabooda]

Get a separate module. Integrate into the display would have been best..

https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xing-1b-r-xintex-gasoline-fume-detector--alarm-wplastic.html?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Shopping%20-%20All%20Products&utm_term=1100200315462&utm_content=Shopping%20-%20All%20Products

[sandm]

in a bad fire or explosion that supression system is not going to do any good to extingush the fire but it might buy you additional time to vacate the boat. imo it's a feature that someone grabbed from the yacht/go fast industry and if they get 10% of the owners to invest in, it's likely putting another 5-8k in skiers choice pockets so someone got employee of the month for suggesting the add....

house odds would favor that $700ish being money you will never see back at resale time and IF there is a fire that it saves, you are now left with a salvage boat to argue with insurance over vs a total and a new boat being ordered.

I know it's safety and you can't put a price on life or limb but as guppy mentioned, if it was common, just like surfpipes, our nanny state would have already passed legislation and Larry's msrp would be $1800 more..

[larry_arizona]

Automatic fire suppression system is $570 MSRP, so with discount about $450.

Aftermarket manual systems are $400+ just for parts.


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[dakota4ce]

in a bad fire or explosion that supression system is not going to do any good to extingush the fire but it might buy you additional time to vacate the boat. imo it's a feature that someone grabbed from the yacht/go fast industry and if they get 10% of the owners to invest in, it's likely putting another 5-8k in skiers choice pockets so someone got employee of the month for suggesting the add....

house odds would favor that $700ish being money you will never see back at resale time and IF there is a fire that it saves, you are now left with a salvage boat to argue with insurance over vs a total and a new boat being ordered.

I know it's safety and you can't put a price on life or limb but as guppy mentioned, if it was common, just like surfpipes, our nanny state would have already passed legislation and Larry's msrp would be $1800 more..

Pretty dramatic assessment of a system that could help you survive a fire, maybe save your boat in a minor situation, enable you to grab life vests for all passengers before bailing....and costs a few hundred bucks.

I could not give a rat’s ass about recouping my fire extinguisher cost on resale. Or my electric trailer brakes cost for that matter, another item that makes towing just a bit safer. These are personal choices to add some safety.

But I am a crazy one, I also get the good fire and smoke detectors for my house, and have multiple CO detectors. Probably not gonna recoup those costs when I sell my house.


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[larry_arizona]

$500 option is not the issue, it’s cheap, and I don’t care about resale factor at all.

My only question is how the Skiers choice option compares to an aftermarket variant I would install myself.

If the S.C. option is nicely packaged and integrated it’s a no brainer.

This thread just opened my eyes to how fast these boats can go up in flames, not expecting an auto system to save the boat, frankly if the boat catches fire, I want a new one.

If it buys me 60 more seconds to safely
grab a vest and get the crew off the boat, it’s well worth it.

Its a suppression system, suppression indicates to me it only works for so long.

This does not replace inspecting fuel lines, running the blower motor and opening engine hatch pre start. A suppression system would not prevent an engine bay explosion.

It really would only protect against a fuel line leak and a resulting fire.


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[sandm]

not necessarily dramatic dakota. the odds of something happening are extremely small and NO guarantee that this system is going to do anything to buy extra time nor save a boat. heck. I bet factoring in the odds of having a fire AND the odds that this system either buys extra time or saves part of the boat are less than 1%.
the system MIGHT buy you extra time, or nor. it MIGHT save part of the boat, or not. it MIGHT go off, or not.

too many variables to say that the monies are well spent but great thing about 'merica is you can spend monies on whatever you like. the $500 is not a ton of cash when talking about 100k boats but I just try to get people to think about the ROI before handing cash over and not recouping it.
to remember some lines from Sam Walton, as soon as you stop watching the pennies, money doesn't matter anymore. 20yr note it's only $3 but as soon as you stop minding the $3, pretty soon you're broke.

[dakota4ce]

Pretty dramatic. And pretty cynical to think that it doesn’t help whatsoever.

I don’t give a flying butthole about 500 bucks when it comes to my boat. That may make me different from you.

Let me play devils advocate and say that by your logic you should just go ahead and skip smoke detectors and carbon monoxide detectors in your home. Very low chance of your home burning, and there’s no guarantee that they will work.

Also, skip the helmet. Probably not going to crash your motorcycle. And will it help? Who knows.

To illustrate the logic. And extrapolate it.

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[2in2out]

Another factor is the maintenance on the system.

Dry chem fire extinguishers are supposed to be checked every 2 years, valve removed, powder uncaked, and recharged. Marine ABC systems should have the same maintenance interval.

A halon system, once the gas is spent, becomes ineffective unless you are in an airtight confined space. A marine dry chem ABC system has the best chance of working and buying the greatest time, but has a higher maintenance need.

I would say any system that is over 5 years without maintenance will be mostly ineffective.

[larry_arizona]

I believe halon is banned now.

I am sure there is a replacement for halon.


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[larry_arizona]

I can tell you the system S.C. uses is not cheaper in the aftermarket.

Best deal is checking the box when ordering, 3 year warranty before tank needs to be checked.


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[dakota4ce]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201016/b39e17dfad4b33a755be64e0d8091530.jpg


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[larry_arizona]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201016/b39e17dfad4b33a755be64e0d8091530.jpg


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Thank you!!!


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