Brand new Makai died on the water

[Max20]

Been a rough weekend. 2nd log strike in 3 outings but the purpose of this post is to talk about the boat quitting while underway.

Anyway, while pulling a boarder last night the boat shut off...like I turned the key off. Had power to everything except the ignition switch. Cycled the battery switch nothing. Turn the key backward to accessory...nothing. Turn it forward, nothing. Monkey around with wiring...nothing. I pulled the panel, unplugged the ignition switch, plug it back it (battery switch off), turn batteries back on...nothing but everything else still works.

No boats on the water at all, so I called a buddy who said he would be right there, lives 30 min away.

While waiting, tried 50 times before giving up and just waiting. My patience got the best of me and tried one more time and it fired up like nothing was wrong. Head straight to the ramp, got it on the trailer, turn it off. Tried turning it back on....nothing - same problem as on the water.

Pull it home, put it in the barn and cycle the key and it works again...what gives???? Bad ignition switch???

I wrote about the same in a different post about smacking my second log this weekend, but it was a lengthy post and a different topic so I decided to post another thread....

[DFTR Josh]

Safety switch, I've delt with this and was an easy fix. Found turning my seat it would hit the switch and knock the clip loose. Well lets hope it's an easy fix.

[Max20]

I thought about the safety switch but that would just prevent it from starting, not kill all power when the key is turned to accessory, right?

I pulled the lanyard off, and put back on 15 times and it didn’t solve the problem on the water. Only after sitting 30 minutes, untouched did it decide to work again

[RUGER761]

How many batteries do you have? If just 1 I’ve seen new batteries with dead cells do exactly what you are describing.


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[Max20]

2 batteries. Was running on both at the time. I tried everything on each battery and both after it died.

As those familiar know, when you turn the key backwards the stereo plays. When you cycle it forward to run the screen initializes and goes through it’s checks, the stereo also comes on. In any position I had the key, nothing came on. On a couple occasions, the stereo screen would flash on for a split second and go back off.

All other electrical devices on the boat worked just fine so clearly I had power

[larry_arizona]

I don’t think you are supposed to run both batteries at the same time.

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[Kirby]

Larry, I've seen that diagram and info and always wondered. The predominant advice is to run both, and switch to 1 or 2 while chillin'. Both my dealers have recommended this. Yet that's in the manual. Of course, some people will go with what you posted. I do that sometimes if I think about it, but mostly run both while underway. Never really understood that.

[larry_arizona]

It’s interesting that most run in the position that SC doesn’t recommend.

Not sure what the advantage is to run both batteries.


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[Isaguel]

That makes sense. I have been using one battery but was under the impression the alternator was charging both at the same time, even if I was using 1. But now I stand corrected. Only the battery being used is being charged. Hence, it seems that we should switch to use battery one or 2 every other outing to ensure both always remained juiced.

[larry_arizona]

I alternate battery 1 and 2 each time we go out and plug in smart charger after each outing.

Smart charger charges both batteries so each battery is fully charged at each launch.


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[Morganleemaster]

I don’t think you are supposed to run both batteries at the same time.

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Good to know. Always ran both for the last 4 years but I’ll change that now.


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[zabooda]

The owners manual may restrict charging all banks when the engine is running due to the uncertainty of battery conditions that may overload the alternator.

[Shoebox]

I don’t think you are supposed to run both batteries at the same time.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200628/a16199d812ffcc7728958571587e8c27.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHuh. I guess I'll be changing how I do things. Thanks!

[yearround]

I am no help to the OP and dying on the lake. But i am interested to find out the resolution. and this battery stuff posted now is great too. My salesman was very definitive that we should run the batteries on 1 & 2, stating the system needs the extra power from both batteries. I have never thought, just followed. now i will change, maybe check their opinion/recommendation now also.

[larry_arizona]

I am no help to the OP and dying on the lake. But i am interested to find out the resolution. and this battery stuff posted now is great too. My salesman was very definitive that we should run the batteries on 1 & 2, stating the system needs the extra power from both batteries. I have never thought, just followed. now i will change, maybe check their opinion/recommendation now also.

Strange advice from a dealer when SC says otherwise, but it sounds common. Maybe on a different boat or system?

I can sit engine off for nearly 2 hours with audio system playing and still restart fine on the same battery, but also knowing I have a fully charged back up.

No issues at all running just 1 battery, alternator cranks 14v no issue. Not sure what system would starve or require two batteries while engine is running.


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[haknslash]

I am no help to the OP and dying on the lake. But i am interested to find out the resolution. and this battery stuff posted now is great too. My salesman was very definitive that we should run the batteries on 1 & 2, stating the system needs the extra power from both batteries. I have never thought, just followed. now i will change, maybe check their opinion/recommendation now also.

Never heard of such. I believe the whole reason for combining 1+2 banks is for emergency use only (in the rare case when both batteries may not be fully charged enough to start the engine). My dealer has suggested we use the onboard charger when the boat is not in use and to alternate battery 1 or 2 each outing just to allow both to charge off the engine and get some use). Been using that method and all seems fine.

[korey]

I typically run on "both" when i put the boat in the water for the weekend. My thinking is to "top off" both batteries. As a guy who has written a lot of instruction manuals and warranty cards in his career, I understand why they say not to, but I'm usually reasonably sure that neither of my batteries are completely drained - which is the case that may damage an alternator... After the first run out, I'll switch to either 1 or 2 when i get ropes out the first time, and run on that all weekend knowing that the opposite is charged as a backup. I have never used the onboard charger. I pull the batteries and keep them in my climate controlled garage in winter.

Back to the OP; the very first time I got to surf behind my brand new boat, it died on plane and I ran into the transom.. We were baffled. I had my buddy - an avid "why the hell would you spend that much money on a new boat you idiot" guy - in the driver's seat... It turned out that the back of the seat will press on the kill switch when swiveled just right. You had to pull the lanyard and reinsert it to re-set it. I do not remember if my symptoms matched yours or not, but if you haven;t verified that I'd start there!

Are you the same guy who was talking about 2 prop hits on Lake Cumberland? Did you buy from Denney? Hopefully they can help - they tend to get overwhelmed right before a holiday weekend...

[MJHSupra]

There was some info that came out to run BOTH to avoid that 'popping' sound on the stereo system when starting up.

I think that was the 19s? Could be in the 20s too? I do not have that on my 2018.

[trace]

I run 1&2 on mine while running, and switch to 1 or 2 while chillin. The reason I do this is because on my '19 SE, while starting the motor in 1 or 2 I get a nasty pop through the speakers that's likely to do more expensive damage than running the switch in 1&2 can. I kill the motor when we switch riders so they aren't climbing in and out with their head in the exhaust.

[DDNorCal]

If you watch one of the Matt Brown (sorry can't remember which one) he says he always runs in 1&2. Even acknowledged that the manual say only 1 or only 2.

[Max20]

Are you the same guy who was talking about 2 prop hits on Lake Cumberland? Did you buy from Denney? Hopefully they can help - they tend to get overwhelmed right before a holiday weekend...[/QUOTE]

I’m the same guy who had 2 prop hits and am headed to Lake Cumberland in a week. Yeah, 2nd prop hit on Friday night, swapped to spare prop to run on Saturday and the boat died on the water....that’s lucky me!

Monday Update: I was at Delta prop when they opened this morning. Said there is a hairline crack in one of the blades so they can’t fix it - liability thing, so bought another new one.

Moomba dealer was very sympathetic and said to drop it off tonight and they will do everything in their power to get it fixed this week for our trip next week. The tech obviously needs to look at it, but initial thought based on my description of events is bad ignition switch.

[haknslash]

Hopefully they get you taken care of in time for your trip. Let us know the cause but I agree with others it sounds ignition switch related.

[Max20]

I know it’s been a minute however wanted to get back to everyone. There is a fuse block mounted on the engine which contains a 40a main fuse. Apparently it wasn’t seated well or the holder itself wasn’t holding the fuse blades tight enough. So the ignition switch was fine as were all the normal connections.

I got the boat the morning we planned to take off and have been at Lake Cumberland since Tuesday afternoon this week without issue.

[Isaguel]

Great to hear. Sometimes its the simplest things that stump us.

[Judge92du]

Interesting to hear this resolution. The same thing happened to me this past weekend. 2020 Makai with 30 hours. Running fine and then just died in the water. We pulled and pushed back in all fuses thinking that might be the case, but no luck. The ignition switch also seemed to not be working properly. The engine would try to crank over when we switch the key to the run position without turning all the way to 'start'. The boat is at the dealer now for review and fix. I'll be curious to see what they come up with. BTW, i was also told to run in the 1+2 position....interesting.

[TXSurf4]

So not to add to the battery confusion but...... here is the discussion that some people were referring to. It is all from 2017 in the "Autowake Questions" thread.
I am curious, do either of you have dual batteries in your boat and if so, where do you run your switch? Also, do you recharge your batteries often? I personally always run my switch in the "both" position and we keep the R&D boats batteries charged fairly often. Even if filling with engine off (which you can't do in 2018 ), it gives me a little extra battery bank to hold a slightly higher voltage.


This is interesting, as my dealer specifically advised never to run on both, always choose 1 or 2.


Well, the battery switch and recommended switch location has been a point of controversy over the years and internally we probably all don't see it the same way. The most conservative approach is to recommend the consumer leave the switch in the 1 or 2 position. IF you do that, and IF you charge your batteries often, then IF you were to be sitting on the lake all day listening to the stereo and the battery went dead, then you could theoretically switch it to the other battery, start your engine and go merrily on your way.

However, what I have found is most consumers do NOT charge their batteries often. And many consumers leave the switch in 1 position forever, never turning it off. If you leave the switch in the 1 position, then you would never be charging the 2nd battery as the alternator is completely separated from the 2nd battery. If you left it that all way all season without charging it, it is likely that if you ever did need the 2nd battery, it might be dead. In addition to that, running the engine and all accessories off 1 battery only will draw that battery down very quickly. Then discharging and charging that one battery often will then make that battery fail prematurely. Worst case is you end up having 1 battery that dies premature or doesn't hold a change very long, only to find out the other battery is also dead from not being charged.

That is why I personally always run my battery switch in both and charge often. One of the highest premature failures of deep cycle batteries is not charging them often enough or leaving them in a lower voltage situation for long times. In addition to that as I said before, if you are in the both position, then you have a true dual battery bank and it will not draw down your voltage near as quick when running ballast or stereo. In addition to that, the alternator will always be charging BOTH batteries when switch is in both. Granted, it can charge one battery at a time faster than 2, but I currently trailer my boat and I almost always end up having a decent run back to the dock at the end of the day when I am finished. Running the boat at a higher RPM increases the alternator output and seems to do a decent job of recharging the batteries. And like I said, we try and plug up the R&D boats very regularly which again tops off the charge to the batteries.

As a side note, I personally think some of the low voltage codes seen in some of the newer boats are also because most people are running the battery switch in 1 position and not charging the batteries enough. If you were to fill the ballast for 15 minutes, while listening to the stereo with key off, I could definitely see the one battery getting into the 11 volts or less range. That is when we start seeing "low voltage" and this amplifies the possibility of seeing the O2 sensor codes when you start back up. That is another reason we changed the 2018 ballast to only filling when the engine is running. While some people may not like it, with the 6 pumps running, it can drain the battery fairly quickly, especially with the battery in 1 position and key off. IF you do decide to run with the battery switch in "both" but want to sit and listen to the stereo for long times, then you can still move the switch to 1 battery only while you are sitting there. If you did that, then you would probably have a good backup battery if you run the 1 battery dead. Just remember to switch it back to both after you get started and then recharge the battery when you get home.

Hope that makes sense. Sorry about change in topic, but thought it might be helpful as some of you might want to try running the battery in the "both" switch and I hope that everyone will try and charge the batteries more often. Trust me, it will help!


Goose - not to completely hijack this AutoWake thread (which is awesome BTW) but I think maybe now you can see why there is some confusion on the battery setting. If I'm following along correctly, you have said you personally use the battery "1 + 2" setting all the time on the R&D boats and that is what you recommend. That being said, it contradicts what we are told in the Owner's Manual (quoted in the other thread).

Is the Owner's Manual being overly cautious in advising that the "1+2" setting only be used in emergency situations? What about the ground differentiation mentioned in respect to sensitive electronics onboard?

TIA for any clarification!
That is a good question and I will try to answer it as best as I can....

The guy that wrote that sits in the office next to mine. His job is customer service. As many of you know, they deal with problems all day because most of you happy customers never call him to tell him how much you love your boat. Because of that, they sometimes come across a little on the conservative side and especially conservative when we have prior issues with items. As the boats have gotten more electronically advanced, we have had issues with sensitive electronics. Some of that is our fault, some has been vendor issues, but truth is we have also had some issues that could have been avoided IF people would have used a little more common sense to start with. Again, that is when we really get overly conservative on the owners manual side. It reminds me of the warning on the coffee cup that says the liquid inside is hot. Granted, that was probably because of a stupid lawsuit, but I think you get my point.

Anyways, IF you use 2 different style batteries that have different voltages, then you could absolutely get ground differentiation. And having ground differentiation can cause ground loops and other issues. So, part of that statement is true. However, the way it currently reads, it sounds like it will definitely happen all the time and that part is not true. As I and others have said, we highly recommend you use 2 of the exact same style batteries that are sized appropriately and keep them properly charged. If you do that, then you should not have ground differentiation and in fact running them on the both switch location would probably help keep them from having ground differentiation to start with.

Hope that helps clear up the confusion. We are actually planning to change how we word that for the 2018 owners manuals.

I doesn't look like they changed the wording in my 2019 manual and I can't see the 2020 manual online so not sure about it there.

I have always run mine on "1+2" and if my boat is not on the water then the charger is plugged in. I guess it is just a good habit that I carried over from my fishing boat.