400 vs 450 raptor motor

[brandykn00]

I am currently building my Makai and want to know what the top speed is in the makai with the 400 vs the 450. I know conditions will dictate this so lets assume perfect conditions so that we take that out of the equation. I test drove the makai with the 400 in it and it topped out at 38 MPH with no ballast. I was surprised, I know these boats aren't designed for top end speed but I thought it would get into the mid 40s at least. We do like to whip around the lakes and rivers in our current boat at high speeds at times and it would be nive if we could have a killer surf boat that also has the ability to go a little faster than the high 30s. Does anyone know what the top end speed is in the makai with the 450? Does it have higher top end speed than the 400 or just get you to 38MPH faster? Does any one know what the top end speed of the 575 motor is in the makai? I need help making the motor decision!!!

[jsb]

I don't know about top end speed but I just went through this same deliberation and opted for the 450 to ensure enough "pull" with a relatively full crew and full ballast. From what I understand the 400 with the new 1.76 transmission is "fine" for most surfing and wakeboarding situations with a lighter crew and stock ballast but not quite enough with extra ballast and/or a fuller crew...especially at any altitude. I do know of one 2019 Makai 400 owner who traded up to the 450 because he wasn't happy with the performance at higher wakeboarding speeds with a full crew or heavy ballast.

Again, all of this is related to surfing and wakeboarding performance not top end cruising speed so not sure if it's helpful with your decision. Good luck.

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[Shoebox]

Top speed is far more prop-dependent than anything. You can get a prop to "whip around" at top speed with either motor, but it isn't going to be very good for surfing or getting on plane wakeboarding when heavily ballasted. You need to decide which is more important.

[haknslash]

I was about to saw the prop is what is going to have the biggest influence on top speed. If you plan on surfing or carrying lots of ballast you can likely forget 40 mph. These boats are meant for pulling not top speed. If you want top speed then you’re going to sacrifice pulling power so you have to decide which is more important. My last boat would do 49 mph. I don’t miss the speeds one bit and normally cruise 23-28 mph.

[larry_arizona]

Once I got a wakeboat, I simply don’t understand high speed boating anymore.




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[Prospersigman]

I think you are looking at the wrong type of boat if you are still interested in top speed and being able to cruise at 40+ mph. Not to mention these boats dont really have the hull design for top speed handling or handling any chop at high speeds.

Go buy a Nor-Tech, Skater, or Top Gun if you want to go balls to the wall.

[FamilyMan]

Reading recent boat reviews I feel like hitting 40 seems damn good for a wake boat.

Last review on centurions and some malibus in BOATING top speeds were somewhere around 33-35. I think you will will get used to it...grew up on jet boats and now I feel like 23-26 is a nice cruise and when going over 30 feel like my hair is on fire! I open her up to 38-39 every once in a while for short jaunts just for kicks.

[larry_arizona]

One of my biggest pet peeves now is WOT boat guy standing up driving in the breezeway

I did 38mph in my boat once and nobody in my crew enjoyed it. When cruising 23mph is much more enjoyable.

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[MJHSupra]

I have friends that have this. It's a dual boat setup.

Both could afford 1 really nice (upper end) wake boat, but settled for 2 nice boats.

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[haknslash]

Buy a wake boat and buy one of those used rocket PWC's for times you want to blast off 70+ mph!

[Isaguel]

MJHSupra. Let me ask you this question since you have the boat I am ordering. I ordered the SL 400. I plan to add 6-800 lb lead bags. I am still nervous about the boats ability to pull its heavier weight, ballast and 6-8 passengers. I do plan to upgrade the prop. Have you found the 400 to be needing more torque? Do u use extra ballast?. It was hard to digest having to spend and extra 8300$ for an extra 40 lb/ft torque. That's the cost of a whole engine! Just trying to reach some peace with my decision, it's too late now anyways. Which prop are u using? if you upgraded.

[Mdavfx4]

MJHSupra. Let me ask you this question since you have the boat I am ordering. I ordered the SL 400. I plan to add 6-800 lb lead bags. I am still nervous about the boats ability to pull its heavier weight, ballast and 6-8 passengers. I do plan to upgrade the prop. Have you found the 400 to be needing more torque? Do u use extra ballast?. It was hard to digest having to spend and extra 8300$ for an extra 40 lb/ft torque. That's the cost of a whole engine! Just trying to reach some peace with my decision, it's too late now anyways. Which prop are u using? if you upgraded.

You have to remember that your 400 will have the new vdrive ratio which will help it. The 2018 had the 1.5.

[Isaguel]

You have to remember that your 400 will have the new vdrive ratio which will help it. The 2018 had the 1.5.

Hmmm, did not account for that. Just went to the website and saw it, the new 1.76:1 gear ratio. Wish they offered some kind of real world metric that would give an idea of difference in torque/advantage between the new setup and the one in my Mojo. I did test drive a 2020 SL 400 last fall. With full standard ballast and 4 adult passengers it seemed to do well.

[larry_arizona]

A 400 with the right prop goes a long way even with a 1.5 transmission.

If you are at low elevation you really don’t need a 450.



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[Isaguel]

A 400 with the right prop goes a long way even with a 1.5 transmission.

If you are at low elevation you really don’t need a 450.



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Which prop are U using?

[larry_arizona]

I have a SA400 with 1.5 gear and 2775 prop at 1000-2000 feet elevation, 5-6 crew plus 500 lead and never had an issue surfing or wakeboarding.


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[larry_arizona]

In full transparency, I have not tried full ballast, 5-6 crew +500# lead at wakeboard speed.

Witnessed this exact set up riding in the PWT SA550 and I don’t have anyone in my crew with the balls to ride that wake.


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[Isaguel]

I'm at about 1000' elevaton. I will get that 2775 prop. Thx.

[larry_arizona]

I'm at about 1000' elevaton. I will get that 2775 prop. Thx.

If you ordered a 2020 SL400 you don’t want a 2775 prop. You get a choice of a 16x17 or 16x15 prop, I would opt for the 16x15 prop. You can throw a 16” prop due to the 1.76 gear.


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[Isaguel]

OK. Did some reading on propeller pitch. Now, does anyone have the 16x15 prop option on a new Supra with the 1:76 tranny gear ratio? Or know of someone who has it?. I know these boats are not built for speed and I'm not concerned about going fast, but, how much top end speed am I sacrificing by going to lower pitch. I don't mind loosing 2-4 mph but it would concern me if max speed dropped to the mid-hi 20's . Anyone have any info on this?

[Shoebox]

OK. Did some reading on propeller pitch. Now, does anyone have the 16x15 prop option on a new Supra with the 1:76 tranny gear ratio? Or know of someone who has it?. I know these boats are not built for speed and I'm not concerned about going fast, but, how much top end speed am I sacrificing by going to lower pitch. I don't mind loosing 2-4 mph but it would concern me if max speed dropped to the mid-hi 20's . Anyone have any info on this?Yes, I have the 19 SL450 with 1.76 and 16x15 prop. I'm at 2200' elevation. I'd really like to try the 16x17, because the rpms are around 3600-3700 at 11.5 ballasted and surfing. But it's not worth $700+ just to try it.

Top speed for me empty was 36.4mph at 5350rpm.

[MJHSupra]

MJHSupra. Let me ask you this question since you have the boat I am ordering. I ordered the SL 400. I plan to add 6-800 lb lead bags. I am still nervous about the boats ability to pull its heavier weight, ballast and 6-8 passengers. I do plan to upgrade the prop. Have you found the 400 to be needing more torque? Do u use extra ballast?. It was hard to digest having to spend and extra 8300$ for an extra 40 lb/ft torque. That's the cost of a whole engine! Just trying to reach some peace with my decision, it's too late now anyways. Which prop are u using? if you upgraded.

For surfing and lead, we run 500# on days with bigger crews 6-10, and 1000# on smaller crew days (3-4). The 500#s stays on the boat all the time. No crazy rpms and no issues out of the hole.

For boarding, I run the beginner autowake setting, 500#s lead, and passengers. It's more than enough for anyone on the boat. Will the boat strain with advanced settings, full ballast, and wake speeds - yes. Dealer told me it would. I have not tried it.

For the prop, not sure. I thought I had a pic on my phone to remember the model number, but it was the old prop from my last boat. Did not want to guess.

Elevation is Knoxville TN, probably 1000'.

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[NewbFam5]

OK. Did some reading on propeller pitch. Now, does anyone have the 16x15 prop option on a new Supra with the 1:76 tranny gear ratio? Or know of someone who has it?. I know these boats are not built for speed and I'm not concerned about going fast, but, how much top end speed am I sacrificing by going to lower pitch. I don't mind loosing 2-4 mph but it would concern me if max speed dropped to the mid-hi 20's . Anyone have any info on this?

I test drove several boats. Supra SA and SL both with 400's and 16x15 prop. Both maxed out at sea level at around 37-38 mph. I also drove FI23 and RI237 with the upgraded engine that compares to the 450. Maxed out top end speed about the same but RPM's were higher for those boats. Don't know what prop they were running and I believe the gear ratio is similar to the 1.76 of the newer Supra models. Bottom line is with a surf or wake board prop you can count on 35-38mph with either the 400 or the 450 depending on altitude if you are running without ballast.

[dakota4ce]

Yes, I have the 19 SL450 with 1.76 and 16x15 prop. I'm at 2200' elevation. I'd really like to try the 16x17, because the rpms are around 3600-3700 at 11.5 ballasted and surfing. But it's not worth $700+ just to try it.

Top speed for me empty was 36.4mph at 5350rpm.

At 1300’ with 1100 lead and crew of 5 my 2020 SL 450 could not pull the 16x17 consistently at 11.4 and above. Save your money. I have a 16x16.25 OJ on now and may move to the 16x15. For some reason I think the 16x15 will be the best. It’s just gonna have to be running high 3000s. That’s the way it is.


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[Shoebox]

At 1300’ with 1100 lead and crew of 5 my 2020 SL 450 could not pull the 16x17 consistently at 11.4 and above. Save your money. I have a 16x16.25 OJ on now and may move to the 16x15. For some reason I think the 16x15 will be the best. It’s just gonna have to be running high 3000s. That’s the way it is.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkGood info, thanks!

[TXSurf4]

Has anyone tried the 15.5x18 (speed/surf) prop that Moomba has as an option right now?


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[dakota4ce]

Has anyone tried the 15.5x18 (speed/surf) prop that Moomba has as an option right now?


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I sure did on my Makai. It was ALMOST doable. Could not quite consistently pull heavy surf loads. It was damn close—but if the water was a bit rough or it was really hot and humid I could not get it to hold surf speeds. I was heavy—1500 lead and Bagbusters. 1300’


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[TXSurf4]

I sure did on my Makai. It was ALMOST doable. Could not quite consistently pull heavy surf loads. It was damn close—but if the water was a bit rough or it was really hot and humid I could not get it to hold surf speeds. I was heavy—1500 lead and Bagbusters. 1300’


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So would I be better off getting another 15.5x16.5 as my spare/backup prop? I was going to try the 15.5x18 one as it was said to lower RPMs a little bit and still pull. I have no complaints with the RPMs but liked the idea of lowering them while still maintaining the same performance.

[dakota4ce]

Depends what you run for ballast. It did not do it for me, I sent it back. 2019 450 Makai.


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[dakota4ce]

I also ran a 16 X 16.25 on it for quite a while. That also works pretty darn well, I did get just a tiny bit of gel burn from it. But I am talking tiny bit. A friend of mine also has that propeller on his and has not gotten any burn. That particular propeller is an OJ, not sure what number though.


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[TXSurf4]

Depends what you run for ballast. It did not do it for me, I sent it back. 2019 450 Makai.


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I also ran a 16 X 16.25 on it for quite a while. That also works pretty darn well, I did get just a tiny bit of gel burn from it. But I am talking tiny bit. A friend of mine also has that propeller on his and has not gotten any burn. That particular propeller is an OJ, not sure what number though.


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Ya I am at 1k in lead and planning to either replace the rears with the 1300s or just add more lead lol. 2019 Makai 450 and I haven’t ever had a problem with this prop and we consistently run a larger crew. Does anyone know if Acme makes a 15.5x16.5 and if so what the # is for it? TIA


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[Isaguel]

I test drove several boats. Supra SA and SL both with 400's and 16x15 prop. Both maxed out at sea level at around 37-38 mph. I also drove FI23 and RI237 with the upgraded engine that compares to the 450. Maxed out top end speed about the same but RPM's were higher for those boats. Don't know what prop they were running and I believe the gear ratio is similar to the 1.76 of the newer Supra models. Bottom line is with a surf or wake board prop you can count on 35-38mph with either the 400 or the 450 depending on altitude if you are running without ballast.

Thanks, good to hear. Its what I needed to know. The lower pitch will mean higher RPM's and lower fuel economy but will feel more comfortable knowing the boat will not feel sluggish coming out of the hole loaded with over 4k ballast + crew. A top speed in the hi 30's is fine with me. Not using it for racing. I'll prolly call my dealer tomorrow to make a change order on the Prop. I figure that should not be an issue given the spray date is in April.

[dakota4ce]

Ya I am at 1k in lead and planning to either replace the rears with the 1300s or just add more lead lol. 2019 Makai 450 and I haven’t ever had a problem with this prop and we consistently run a larger crew. Does anyone know if Acme makes a 15.5x16.5 and if so what the # is for it? TIA


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Why would you want an ACME prop with the diameter and pitch? Just for fun? It would be on their website if they make it.

[TXSurf4]

Why would you want an ACME prop with the diameter and pitch? Just for fun? It would be on their website if they make it.

Ya basically for fun and to try a different brand. I have looked and can’t seem to find it so I wasn’t sure if anyone knew if they made one or not.


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[Isaguel]

I see some post about purchasing props with fractions sizes in their diameter, like 16.5". While I was researching online I found that Props can be either fabricated through casting or CNC methods. ACME claims the CNC method produces a much more accurate prop in dimensions/thickness, etc. One distinction is that CNC props do not use fractions in their sizes, It'll be 14, 15, 16" etc.
Anybody have a take on this. Is the extra cost of the CNC worth it? Does it really make that much a difference?

[haknslash]

I don't think that's right because OJ CNC machines their props and they make them in whole and fraction sizes. CNC is always going to allow for more precise surfaces.

[KnoxMojo]

I see some post about purchasing props with fractions sizes in their diameter, like 16.5". While I was researching online I found that Props can be either fabricated through casting or CNC methods. ACME claims the CNC method produces a much more accurate prop in dimensions/thickness, etc. One distinction is that CNC props do not use fractions in their sizes, It'll be 14, 15, 16" etc.
Anybody have a take on this. Is the extra cost of the CNC worth it? Does it really make that much a difference?

Acme carries many fraction size diameter props, go have a look on wakemakers.