Tow vehicle question

[NewbFam5]

I've got an F150 2017 V6 with twin turbo so not too worried about pulling the boat this next year but I am due to update vehicle at some point as well. I have a family of 5 so if I stay with the truck then we will always need to take 2 vehicles if one of the boys has a friend. That leads me to, what full size SUV 2017 or newer are any of you using to tow your 23' boat?

[Mwcraz]

I have used our Suburban with the heavy duty tow package but my ford with the same package and 3.5 ecoboost is MUCH stronger. I would buy the new Expedition if I were in the market.


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[larry_arizona]

I have used our Suburban with the heavy duty tow package but my ford with the same package and 3.5 ecoboost is MUCH stronger. I would buy the new Expedition if I were in the market.


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Just make sure your hitch is rated for what your towing on your Ford.


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[jason1973]

Good advice above. I have heard that ford is equip'ing vehicles designed to tow with 5000lb hitch assemblies. How stupid is that??? you need to check. I would also suggest the expedition if you can get over how stupid it looks. It is truly one of the ugliest SUV's ever. The older ones look like shoe boxes and the new ones look like station wagons not to mention the squat in the rear end when you hook up your boat.

That being said, i have a Tahoe which looks a whole lot better but i am not going to say buy a GM either. the 5.3L i have works just fine for my boat, but i don't think i would be towing a 22' or 23' boat with it anytime soon. I would opt for the 6.2 and longer wheel base of the suburban.

To be honest, i too am looking for my next tow vehicle and i am NOT impressed by ANYTHING that is out there right now. I am still not sure of the longevity of the 3.5 ECO, the AFM issues with Chevy/GMC, the poor performance and gas mileage from the Toyota 5.7 and the low reliabiltiy ratings with Nissan trucks/SUV's.

I guess if i had to choose it would be the 3.5 ECO ford. But the nice thing is i don't have too. I am waiting for someone to build something decent. There is no doubt the toyota would be reliable but its old old old tech since 2007, and we had the sequioa. Seriously poor gas mileage and lower tow ratings than its domestic competition. It was a reliable SUV but i never saw over 17 mpg on the highway (not towing, light load), towing i was under 9 mpg. The sequioa ever with tow package we had was 6600 lbs.

[Mdavfx4]

Just make sure your hitch is rated for what your towing on your Ford.


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Yeah, this is confusing because my F150 has a class IV hitch, but they slap a 5,000lb capacity sticker on it. If you look at hitch ratings class IV's are good up to 10,000 lbs.

[larry_arizona]

The hitch tag is all you need to read.

F150 in any variation of tow package or upgrades is 5000# weight carrying and 500# tongue.

Just buy the Curt 10000# weight carrying and 1000# tongue and you are good to go.


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[NewbFam5]

I looked at my hitch, I thought it is a class V hitch, looked at it briefly so I better check again. I don't mind the look of the newer Expedition and I agree that the Toyota is terrible on the mileage side.

[Mdavfx4]

I looked at my hitch, I thought it is a class V hitch, looked at it briefly so I better check again. I don't mind the look of the newer Expedition and I agree that the Toyota is terrible on the mileage side.

I bet it says 500/5,000 towing or 1,050/10,500 with weight distribution hitch. Seems like all F150's have this hitch.

[larry_arizona]

I bet it says 500/5,000 towing or 1,050/10,500 with weight distribution hitch. Seems like all F150's have this hitch.

This is what the F150 tag says.....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191213/aaeffb985bde58a56b4e87a530f5c9fe.jpg


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[jason1973]

so this is the hitch they install but advertise that the F150 can tow 13000 lbs but don't equip it to do so.

[larry_arizona]

so this is the hitch they install but advertise that the F150 can tow 13000 lbs but don't equip it to do so.

Correct.

But the F150 3.5EB with 3.55 gear pulls my 8000# rig like a champ. Plenty of balls.

One knock on the F150 is you can tell how light it is. My SA pushes it pretty good.

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[sandm]

so this is the hitch they install but advertise that the F150 can tow 13000 lbs but don't equip it to do so.

ford has been doing this for years and not just the 150. our '99 f250 super duty has the same hitch and same ratings.... on a superduty.
sad that our chevy 1500 with the z71 tow pack has a hitch that's rated at 12k.
I am going to hazzard a guess that lawyers are the reason ford doesn't put a more robust sticker on the hitch on the truck. betting there was a lawsuit in the distant past that has not been forgotten.
the reality is there are thousands of f150's running around with the 5000lb hitch regularly towing much more demanding loads and if it was causing accidents left and right, it would have made the news/interwebs. not saying to do so but just saying.....

[larry_arizona]

ford has been doing this for years and not just the 150. our '99 f250 super duty has the same hitch and same ratings.... on a superduty.
sad that our chevy 1500 with the z71 tow pack has a hitch that's rated at 12k.
I am going to hazzard a guess that lawyers are the reason ford doesn't put a more robust sticker on the hitch on the truck. betting there was a lawsuit in the distant past that has not been forgotten.
the reality is there are thousands of f150's running around with the 5000lb hitch regularly towing much more demanding loads and if it was causing accidents left and right, it would have made the news/interwebs. not saying to do so but just saying.....

My concern is simple, insurance company says boat is not covered as you pulled 8000# with a hitch that is rated for 5000#.

$180 hitch fixes that concern.

I personally can’t cover a six figure loss.


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[Mdavfx4]

My concern is simple, insurance company says boat is not covered as you pulled 8000# with a hitch that is rated for 5000#.

$180 hitch fixes that concern.

I personally can’t cover a six figure loss.


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Did you replace your hitch? It looks like it involves removing bumper and doing some cutting to the brackets so you can remount the bumper after the new hitch is installed.

[larry_arizona]

Did you replace your hitch? It looks like it involves removing bumper and doing some cutting to the brackets so you can remount the bumper after the new hitch is installed.

There are two options.

1) curt Makes one that fits around factory hitch. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191213/48603b185060e6ad121fa425f7fc9a97.jpg
C14016
Or

2) you need to either cut off factory receiver as it is integral to bumper assy. or replace with the non hitch bumper assy. Then you can install the Curt hitch without factory hitch option.
C14017

https://www.etrailer.com/hitch-2019_Ford_F-150.htm

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[haknslash]

Yup cut it and install the Curt C14017. That’s what I did and looks and performs great!

[larry_arizona]

Yup cut it and install the Curt C14017. That’s what I did and looks and performs great!

If I had to do mine again, I would cut the factory hitch off and use the C14017 too.


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[sandm]

My concern is simple, insurance company says boat is not covered as you pulled 8000# with a hitch that is rated for 5000#.

$180 hitch fixes that concern.

I personally can’t cover a six figure loss.

completely with ya larry...
just saying that there are thousands of them running around doing towing duty with that factory hitch. would think if it was a bigger issue the webs would have stories of why to replace but there isn't a lot of info out there. see a few threads like this off and on talking about replacing but not much else.

frankly I never looked into it prior to a thread on here a while back. visual comparison(and I'm not an engineer) are that both my ford and chevy are mounted the exact same, same size bolts and metal looks to be the same thickness. the only discernible difference are the chevy has 2 "arms" per side holding up the square cross tubing while the ford has a single "arm" on each side(same as the curt).
I still think this is more a case of ford lawyers and wanting to pass the buck. towing and accident ensues there are 2 things:
-your at fault for towing beyond the stickered hitch from the factory
-curt/install shop is at fault for cutting/replacing the factory hitch with something else.
either way ford is off the hook.

[larry_arizona]

Scary how many overload hitches.


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[Entersandman]

I have owned several tow vehicles from the suburban to a few different silverados (gas and diesel) 1/2 and 3/4 ton. One suburban was modified with an LS3 stock trans pulling my '14 SA350. You would never know the boat was back there. The burb weighed as much as the boat and trailer if not more, so no pushing it around. The motor putt to the ground 450hp 500tq at the wheels. It did get 20mpg pulling the boat but required 93octane.

My 1/2 Silverados were pushed around by the '14 SA350. They never felt under powered to pull the boat but felt short on braking power and the being pushed around on curvy roads while driving around the lakes never made my wife comfortable. I've never had an issue with the fuel management systems. Mileage has always been in the low teens or single digits while towing. I can only imagine a twin turbo 6 sucking gas at highway speeds.

My 3/4tons one gas great pulling and stopping but sucked gas like we were having an economic crisis. The diesel pulled and stopped great and the fuel mileage is far better than gas. My deleted / tuned Duramax pulled the 14 SA350 to the tune of 20mpg. I now have a 19 Ram 2500 and will be pulling a 19 SL400 so I have no idea what the numbers will be.

What i do know if you don't want to get the pushed around feeling you need a vehicle that weighs close to the weight of what you are towing. If you want fuel mileage i don't think a twin turbo that requires high RPMs to make its power to be your choice as its going to suck gas pulling the boat down the highway. We looked at an SUV but nothing out there has a GVCR that will allow us to pull a heavy boat and all our stuff. When you boat/trailer residual fuel are ~8k and your max tow for most SUVs are 8k theres not much out there.

Towing isn't just tongue weight and tow rating, its also the payload. You load up your vehicle and it takes away from the overall maximum towing capacity by eating into your payload capacity. Its all the same.

[larry_arizona]

The 3.5 eco has very small turbos that make 400 ft.lbs torque at 2000 rpms and stays flat.

Big advantage over a NA V8.

It’s all about torque under the curve.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191214/e6a660701159948eb8cdaf55713fa41b.jpg

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[Entersandman]

Torque gets objects moving.. HP is what makes them go fast like highway speed.

There are plenty of vidoes on YouTube showing the stock EcoBoost making 350tq at 3000rpms and roughly 290hp at 4000rpms. That torque will get you truck and boat moving, like Toyota pulling the space shuttle in the commercial. Torque will get you moving off the line it will not help you at highway speeds that takes HP and if you are making 290 at 4000 then you are going to be spending more for gas. Your truck will work harder to keep up with your requirement to run 70-80mph making only 290hp versus a V8 making well over 350hp.

In the end it doesn't really matter. If you like the ecoboost and truly if you are only pulling the boat a few times a year then you save money the rest of the year. I prefer the power and weight of the 3/4 ton. You have your preference and I have mine.

[larry_arizona]

My preference for towing would absolutely be a 3/4 ton diesel, however, I would hate it as a daily driver.

1/2 tons for towing a 7-8k wakeboat are absolutely a compromise.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191214/5936e036214bab5e9ffdea029532aaea.jpg

The EB still makes more/similar HP than NA V8 and start highway speeds and the 10speed Trans you are never over 2500rpm.

My 3.5 EB towing 8000# with 1000# of passengers and gear is right at max GVW for a half ton, I really would not want to tow more mass, and it gets 10mpg at 80mph.

Kinda pushing it I know, but a 3/4 ton is a miserable daily driver.

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[NewbFam5]

"We looked at an SUV but nothing out there has a GVCR that will allow us to pull a heavy boat and all our stuff. When you boat/trailer residual fuel are ~8k and your max tow for most SUVs are 8k theres not much out there. "

Maybe SC should get in the SUV TB market. Sell 8 seater and boat as a matched pair! Loading up our truck for a long lake weekend with camping gear will definitely push us over the top for weight. My wife probably has 1500#'s of tents, cots and crap that I pack and set up every time we go out. Now we added the boat. At least I've got some time to figure out the best option for us. Thanks for all the feedback on this.

[larry_arizona]

"We looked at an SUV but nothing out there has a GVCR that will allow us to pull a heavy boat and all our stuff. When you boat/trailer residual fuel are ~8k and your max tow for most SUVs are 8k theres not much out there. "

Maybe SC should get in the SUV TB market. Sell 8 seater and boat as a matched pair! Loading up our truck for a long lake weekend with camping gear will definitely push us over the top for weight. My wife probably has 1500#'s of tents, cots and crap that I pack and set up every time we go out. Now we added the boat. At least I've got some time to figure out the best option for us. Thanks for all the feedback on this.

You sir, understand the wakeboat dilemma.

Towing these things safely and within spec takes some thought.

As boats get heavier, half ton trucks get overloaded in a hurry.

I don’t believe any OEM makes a 3/4ton SUV anymore and zero 1/2 ton SUV’s currently can handle tow and GVW ratings for a Supra and full loaded truck. Moomba’s are still light enough though.

1/2 ton crew cabs can make it, but it’s right near the limit.

3/4 ton crew cabs are the robust option, but they ride like ass as a daily.


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[larry_arizona]

Even the Suburban 3500HD is a towing disaster. Only rated for 3000#


https://www.google.com/amp/gmauthority.com/blog/2017/07/chevy-suburban-3500hd-heavy-duty-vs-chevrolet-suburban/amp/


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[MJHSupra]

Even the Suburban 3500HD is a towing disaster. Only rated for 3000#


https://www.google.com/amp/gmauthority.com/blog/2017/07/chevy-suburban-3500hd-heavy-duty-vs-chevrolet-suburban/amp/


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I towed with an older 2500 Suburban 7.4L back in the day. Did fine. Drank a lot, but the boat I was towing was not close to the new Supras. That is all the truck was used for: pulling stuff.

[larry_arizona]

I towed with an older 2500 Suburban 7.4L back in the day. Did fine. Drank a lot, but the boat I was towing was not close to the new Supras. That is all the truck was used for: pulling stuff.

If you had the 4.10 gear they were rated at 9500# in a burban.

I had a 97 2500 pick up with 7.4 and 4.10 and it was rated for 10k.


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[KnoxMojo]

I was reading a while back that the 3.5 ecoboost engine was having timing chain and intercooler issues when constantly towing heavy. Is this still a thing? My shop says they do a few trucks a month with these issues from towing. But not sure if they are early versions or the more current iteration. Don't plan on getting rid of my 7.3 anytime soon, just curious.

[larry_arizona]

I was reading a while back that the 3.5 ecoboost engine was having timing chain and intercooler issues when constantly towing heavy. Is this still a thing? My shop says they do a few trucks a month with these issues from towing. But not sure if they are early versions or the more current iteration. Don't plan on getting rid of my 7.3 anytime soon, just curious.

I haven’t had any issues yet, but then again, it is a Ford, so you never know.


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[jason1973]

I was reading a while back that the 3.5 ecoboost engine was having timing chain and intercooler issues when constantly towing heavy. Is this still a thing? My shop says they do a few trucks a month with these issues from towing. But not sure if they are early versions or the more current iteration. Don't plan on getting rid of my 7.3 anytime soon, just curious.

This is the same thing i have heard. Not sure if its fixed in 2019/2020. But on other forums this seems to be the concern. Also heard of turbo issues after 80k miles. Not sure if this is just internet chatter but its one of the reasons i am not yet decided myself on my next tow vehicle.

[Mwcraz]

I think a couple things need cleared up. First the suburban with the heavy duty tow package comes with a hitch rated for 10,000lbs and 1000 tongue weight. It says right on the hitch. The truck is not rated that high but the hitch is. Second the F150 is more confusing. Without the weight distribution insert and bars it is 500/5000. With weight distribution it is over 1000/10000. Anyone towing a large camper would definitely want to use this setup. It does not reduce the overall pull on the hitch just places more of the trailers weight on the trailer axles. It also helps with stability. The bigger issue people miss is payload. My Tundra had just over 1200lbs. When you add 600lbs of tongue weight you only have 600 left for people and gear. This is a much larger concern as many of the trucks exceed their payload. My F150 is 1600lbs. Also a class 3 hitch is up to 8000 and a class 4 is up to 10,000. You are fine towing our boats with a class 4 just don’t overload the truck’s capacity.



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[rdlangston13]

I was reading a while back that the 3.5 ecoboost engine was having timing chain and intercooler issues when constantly towing heavy. Is this still a thing? My shop says they do a few trucks a month with these issues from towing. But not sure if they are early versions or the more current iteration. Don't plan on getting rid of my 7.3 anytime soon, just curious.

So we own 2 3.5 Ecoboost (one 1st gen in a 2015 expedition and one 2nd gen in a 2018 F150). The expedition was bought new and has a hair over 90,000 miles and probably 10,000 of those are pulling the boat. It had a water pump leak at like 50,000 miles or so but other than that it has been rock solid. No timing chain issues or inner cooler issues and engine has only has full synthetic oil used in it since new. Changed every 5,000 miles, primarily mobil 1 but I’m swapping to penzoil ultra platinum.

The 2nd gen we have only had about a month and a half and has 28,000 miles. All the prior services seem like they were done at the local ford dealer so I assume they used the motor craft synth blend. I’ll be swapping to penzoil ultra platinum at 30,000 miles and will doing 5,000 mile intervals going forward. I’ve heard of timing chain issues on the 1st and 2nd gen so if I experience anything I’ll update but so far I love both of them. The 2nd gen with the 10 speed is awesome so far.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191218/2da767bb519b7a5c1387e41809e633f4.jpg

And in previous posts, my tongue weight was so high because apparently my center ballast failed to drain last time I was out. I imagine that running 500-600 lbs lighter in the middle/front of the boat may have brought my tongue weight down to 500 or less.


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[Mdavfx4]

I think a couple things need cleared up. First the suburban with the heavy duty tow package comes with a hitch rated for 10,000lbs and 1000 tongue weight. It says right on the hitch. The truck is not rated that high but the hitch is. Second the F150 is more confusing. Without the weight distribution insert and bars it is 500/5000. With weight distribution it is over 1000/10000. Anyone towing a large camper would definitely want to use this setup. It does not reduce the overall pull on the hitch just places more of the trailers weight on the trailer axles. It also helps with stability. The bigger issue people miss is payload. My Tundra had just over 1200lbs. When you add 600lbs of tongue weight you only have 600 left for people and gear. This is a much larger concern as many of the trucks exceed their payload. My F150 is 1600lbs. Also a class 3 hitch is up to 8000 and a class 4 is up to 10,000. You are fine towing our boats with a class 4 just don’t overload the truck’s capacity.



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From what I have gathered the experts recommend 5%-7% of the boat and trailers weight for the tongue weight on a dual axle trailer. Travel trailers require a higher % in the 10%-12% range. So with a 7500lb boat that would be anywhere from 375-525lbs. Seems like it wouldn't be much of an issue if you keep it closer to the 5% to 6% range. Especially on lighter boats.

[haknslash]

From what I have gathered the experts recommend 5%-7% of the boat and trailers weight for the tongue weight on a dual axle trailer. Travel trailers require a higher % in the 10%-12% range. So with a 7500lb boat that would be anywhere from 375-525lbs. Seems like it wouldn't be much of an issue if you keep it closer to the 5% to 6% range. Especially on lighter boats.

IIRC all Boatmate trailers are designed to have a 10% tongue weight. My truck pulls my Max on a tandem axle Boatmate trailer better than it did with the Yamaha AR92 on a single axle Shorelandr trailer. Sure the weight is more but it pulls night and day better. You'll have better piece of mind doing the mod I did to install a Class IV Curt in your F150.

https://imgur.com/a/i9baupm

[Mdavfx4]

IIRC all Boatmate trailers are designed to have a 10% tongue weight. My truck pulls my Max on a tandem axle Boatmate trailer better than it did with the Yamaha AR92 on a single axle Shorelandr trailer. Sure the weight is more but it pulls night and day better. You'll have better piece of mind doing the mod I did to install a Class IV Curt in your F150.

https://imgur.com/a/i9baupm

Are the trailers adjustable? 10% could lead up to a pretty heavy tongue weight even with the class IV hitch. That's a lot of weight on the rear of the truck cutting in to payload. I know the Yamaha trailers were.

[larry_arizona]

Are the trailers adjustable? 10% could lead up to a pretty heavy tongue weight even with the class IV hitch. That's a lot of weight on the rear of the truck cutting in to payload. I know the Yamaha trailers were.

I believe the torsion axles can be lowered but not sure on that.


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[haknslash]

Are the trailers adjustable? 10% could lead up to a pretty heavy tongue weight even with the class IV hitch. That's a lot of weight on the rear of the truck cutting in to payload. I know the Yamaha trailers were.

Your truck will be fine although the SL is much heavier than my Max. My sag isn’t any greater than it was with my 192. Goes to show how far out the crappy Shorelandr trailers come. My truck only drops maybe 2-3” when I hook up the boat and that’s with original shocks at 213k miles lol.

Two different days and angles but you get the idea...

https://i.imgur.com/nAIJHfw.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/GFLneB7.jpg

[Mwcraz]

10% is recommended. Less can cause the trailer to sway. It does reduce how much you can load in the truck.


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[FamilyMan]

Crawled under my 2019 Ram 1500 with the tow package and could not find a sticker anywhere. Says class iv on the sticker sooooo will be glass half full and consider it 10k/1k.

Shoutout that the 4 corner air suspension is quite nice for towing and by far the best riding of the big three I test drove (all but tundra because been in many over it’s 13 year lifespan). Plus the Ram is the only truck with a decent interior ..... but have a feeling the newly revealed nice looking suburban interior will find its way into GM trucks in 1-2 years and give the Ram some competition in that category.


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[MJHSupra]

Read an article on the 2021 Tahoe and Suburban.
3.0 diesel option, but no real details on trans and rear end.

Nice looking ride.

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1126347_2021-chevrolet-tahoe-suburban-photos-info-specs

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[larry_arizona]

Helleva lift on that Z71 hoe.


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[Tylerrnemt]

This is what the F150 tag says.....https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191213/aaeffb985bde58a56b4e87a530f5c9fe.jpg


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You guys do realize this says 5,261 kg right?

That's something like 11,000lbs without pulling out a calculator.

I think you're all fine towing with that hitch :rolleyes:

As to the original question.... I have a 13 FX4 with the Ecoboost and it is a beast towing. It out-tows the 3/4 tone 6.0 Gas Silverado I used to have hands down and no question out towed the Tahoe 5.3 I traded in for it all the while it gets well over 13mpg doing it. Besides it is loaded to the gills with heated/cooled seats, backup camera etc and in my opinion looks fantastic with the all painted bumpers etc. No chrome = Cool in 2019.

If I needed something to fit more passengers I would be all over a new Expedition with the Ecoboost. I am however interested in some of these new diesel options available on some of the half ton trucks out there!

https://i.vgy.me/VOkRZw.jpg




-Tyler

[larry_arizona]

You guys do realize this says 5,261 kg right?

That's something like 11,000lbs without pulling out a calculator.

I think you're all fine towing with that hitch :rolleyes:

As to the original question.... I have a 13 FX4 with the Ecoboost and it is a beast towing. It out-tows the 3/4 tone 6.0 Gas Silverado I used to have hands down and no question out towed the Tahoe 5.3 I traded in for it all the while it gets well over 13mpg doing it. Besides it is loaded to the gills with heated/cooled seats, backup camera etc and in my opinion looks fantastic with the all painted bumpers etc. No chrome = Cool in 2019.

If I needed something to fit more passengers I would be all over a new Expedition with the Ecoboost. I am however interested in some of these new diesel options available on some of the half ton trucks out there!

https://i.vgy.me/VOkRZw.jpg




-Tyler

You might want to read that tag a little closer.

When towing a boat, you use the “Weight Carrying” rating.

Using “weight distributing” gear on a boat would be impossible.


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[Tylerrnemt]

You might want to read that tag a little closer.

When towing a boat, you use the “Weight Carrying” rating.

Using “weight distributing” gear on a boat would be impossible.


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Ohhh you’re totally right..... I did read that incorrectly! Thanks for clarifying!!

-Tyler

[Mwcraz]

The new Z71 Tahoe and Suburban look great but will not come with the diesel. The lift is done with a new air ride system and an independent rear suspension. The non Z71 will be available with the diesel.


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[KnoxMojo]

You guys do realize this says 5,261 kg right?

That's something like 11,000lbs without pulling out a calculator.

I think you're all fine towing with that hitch :rolleyes:

As to the original question.... I have a 13 FX4 with the Ecoboost and it is a beast towing. It out-tows the 3/4 tone 6.0 Gas Silverado I used to have hands down and no question out towed the Tahoe 5.3 I traded in for it all the while it gets well over 13mpg doing it. Besides it is loaded to the gills with heated/cooled seats, backup camera etc and in my opinion looks fantastic with the all painted bumpers etc. No chrome = Cool in 2019.

If I needed something to fit more passengers I would be all over a new Expedition with the Ecoboost. I am however interested in some of these new diesel options available on some of the half ton trucks out there!

https://i.vgy.me/VOkRZw.jpg




-Tyler

Is it me, or after the KG number, doesn't it literally says the weight in pounds? lol

[Tylerrnemt]

Is it me, or after the KG number, doesn't it literally says the weight in pounds? lol

It sure does! .... see post #45 lol

I may have been drunk.... or tired .... or both when I first posted that! ;)

[KnoxMojo]

It sure does! .... see post #45 lol

I may have been drunk.... or tired .... or both when I first posted that! ;)

Hahaha.. was just wondering why you thought you needed a calculator, it was right there.. all good. This thread is good for people's knowledge.

[Broke Pilot]

Sorry I’m late to this one!
Don’t forget about the ol Excursion! I just bought my wife an 05 6.0 Limited to replace my ‘17 2500 Cummins (long story)... it’s rated to tow 11k, and has a good payload if you remember it’s basically an F250 underneath. The GVWR was neutered for soccer mom duties back in the day for insurance purposes.
They’re still out there, lots of lower mileage ones with decent prices, and creature comfort wise they’re not far off newer trucks. It checked all the boxes for us. Now I’ve just gotta learn how to work on a Powerstroke lol

[Broke Pilot]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200103/d6ffdd68ef08d7daceda07d3e26d93e5.jpg
Anybody want some 22x12’s?!? Lol


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[larry_arizona]

Big wheels/tires are a tow rating killer too.


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[rdlangston13]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200103/d6ffdd68ef08d7daceda07d3e26d93e5.jpg
Anybody want some 22x12’s?!? Lol


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Love the excursion! Wish they still made them with the newer generation body styles and interiors. That one looks decent and i bet it will
only get better once you’re done with it.


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[MJHSupra]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200103/d6ffdd68ef08d7daceda07d3e26d93e5.jpg
Anybody want some 22x12’s?!? Lol

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Been looking at these. Did you buy a 6.0 with the motor work done? The internet has stories about once they are 'bullet-proofed' it is one of the best motors out there.

You are right - funny wheels.

Cool ride Broke, the Limited and Eddie have the nice interiors.

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[Broke Pilot]

So this one has 190k on factory head gaskets and bolts. I have the full service history, it was only worked on by Tomball ford it’s whole life. We’re the 2nd owner.
Yes, once they’re bullet proofed, it’s a great engine. Tuning back in the day was the big 6.0 killer, advanced timing is what lifted the heads. There’s much better stand alone tuning nowadays for factory 6.0’s. But this one has never been tuned, the HPOP and injectors were changed a few back and it’s got a coolant filtration system on it with the EGR deleted. I figure if it’s never had major surgery by now, I’m not gonna do anything to hurt it.
However, I do have $5k standing by just incase! Lol
Just change the oil every 5k miles, coolant every 2 years and it should run forever. The 6.0 was one of the best towing engines of all time.


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[MJHSupra]

2nd owner on a 2005 with all service recs? Awesome.

I need to do some research on the prices depending on what work has been done. There is an 2004 6.0 Eddie near me asking 16k. Interior and exterior look good, not sure about the service, maintenance, or number of owners. Need to get more info.

Appears on the higher-end, but you get what you pay for. My thoughts were the same, buy it at a price knowing I might take the add'l 5k hit.

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[Broke Pilot]

Exactly... for the shape this one was in I paid almost $20k. All new interior, it’s super clean. One of the few that didn’t have over 300k miles in my area. Most of the other ones I was looking at were closer to $30k. No way I was gonna pay that for a used vehicle lol

[rdlangston13]

Got a couple shots of the new tow pig with the boat. Also got a BW adjustable hitch for Christmas to get the trailer just right. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200108/b73ac51cdc43471f5b960e2c05737bf4.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200108/020839673c659c7dc0d8be722795cc85.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200108/aea659b7e5c2f719a7edef0e618c03fd.jpg


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[sandm]

Sorry I’m late to this one!
Don’t forget about the ol Excursion!

funny everyone mentions the excursion. bored at home the other day and caught an episode of diesel brothers. they can't say enough about the excursions. their recommendation tho was pre-04 to get the 7.3 powerstroke. said it's one of the best motors around. not a diesel guy so I really don't know a lot about them but they are not the first ones to say that. episode I picked up on had the excursion was their yearly contest giveaway rig. cali car they paid 22k for with big wheels/tires(like brokes), fox shox and a solid interior. didn't talk mileage but they didn't do much to the engine so assuming it was lower mile. sounds like broke is on the right path to have a stash in the event of some needed maintenance.

on an unrelated note they also had in the same episode turning a dual diesel vietnam era bridge building boat into a wakesurf boat. was pretty interesting to watch. wake was meh but fun to see all the work. brigade wakesurf bought the boat for 55k. most of the water shots had a pavati in it. surfing utah lakes.

just sold the f250 the guy that owned my house prior left me. he moved to cali and couldn't take the rig with him so he told me to sell it. cars here in vegas sure do depreciate a ton. '95 f250 excab long bed. decent shape. 100,275 on the clock. all stock. 460v8 and 2wd. needs a rear main but otherwise runs great and is clean-bed only ever had rainwater in it :) all I could get out of it was $1700. took over a month to sell and only 2 lookers. towed his 30ft bayliner sleepaboard fine.

[Isaguel]

Got a couple shots of the new tow pig with the boat. Also got a BW adjustable hitch for Christmas to get the trailer just right. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200108/b73ac51cdc43471f5b960e2c05737bf4.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200108/020839673c659c7dc0d8be722795cc85.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200108/aea659b7e5c2f719a7edef0e618c03fd.jpg


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Love the colors of the rig. May I suggest black and blue stripes along the side of the F-150 to tie it all together! It would look even sweeter. I got my truck to match my boat, now upgrading to a supra SL and had to order the same colors as the Mojo to make sure it matched the truck.

BTW, I sometimes tow my Mojo with our Suburban and it tows just fine. Mainly when we have some of the kids friends and need the extra seats.

[Matt0520]

Will be interesting to see how the new Yukon and XL tow with that new duramax 3L diesel they’re offering.

Also of note, the shorter tongue and folding tower on the Supras make a huge difference when towing. I got 14 mpg towing a friends 2020 SA from Cincinnati to Columbus. That same route with my Craz is about 11mpg. Yukon handled it like a champ though, nowhere near the squat I expected.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/7834884afd253771395d7b647e947a7a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/0397b108df2cc4a8e67ca042dcf9a965.jpg

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[rdlangston13]

Will be interesting to see how the new Yukon and XL tow with that new duramax 3L diesel they’re offering.

Also of note, the shorter tongue and folding tower on the Supras make a huge difference when towing. I got 14 mpg towing a friends 2020 SA from Cincinnati to Columbus. That same route with my Craz is about 11mpg. Yukon handled it like a champ though, nowhere near the squat I expected.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/7834884afd253771395d7b647e947a7a.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/0397b108df2cc4a8e67ca042dcf9a965.jpg

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Shorter tongue help mileage by keeping the boat in the slip stream better? The longer tongues are good for reducing tongue weight.


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[MJHSupra]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200119/7834884afd253771395d7b647e947a7a.jpg

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Pat’s boat? Good looking setup right there!


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[NewbFam5]

OK, about to pull the trigger on a 2019 Expedition. I have several options but I have a question, I'm not a wheels and tires guy so what is the performance difference between 18's and 22's. The two that I have locked in on have this as one of several option package differences. I know most of you will say the 22's look better and I agree but from a towing point of view any difference?

[Matt0520]

Pat’s boat? Good looking setup right there!


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Yes sir! I think he should sell it to me next year :)


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[Matt0520]

OK, about to pull the trigger on a 2019 Expedition. I have several options but I have a question, I'm not a wheels and tires guy so what is the performance difference between 18's and 22's. The two that I have locked in on have this as one of several option package differences. I know most of you will say the 22's look better and I agree but from a towing point of view any difference?

22s do look better but ride like crap IMO. I’d also check the load rating on them. You may have to swap to a stiffer sidewall and then they’ll really ride like poop haha


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[rdlangston13]

OK, about to pull the trigger on a 2019 Expedition. I have several options but I have a question, I'm not a wheels and tires guy so what is the performance difference between 18's and 22's. The two that I have locked in on have this as one of several option package differences. I know most of you will say the 22's look better and I agree but from a towing point of view any difference?

20s are probably the best towing option. The smaller the rim the more side wall flex you will get which can contribute to an unstable feeling in the rear end. 22s dont provide enough side wall when the tire is compressed due to the extra load. 20s to me are the best bet, more side wall than a 22 for more cushion between the road and rim and less sidewall than an 18 to help the rear end feel more planted.

[svienb]

Anyone considering a Land Rover Defender 110 as a tow vehicle? It has a 8200 Ilbs tow capacity.
I'm really struggling to find a family vehicle that can be used to tow my newlfy purchased 2019 SA. The tow to the lake is only 5 miles so will probably not do any road trips with it. My wife does not like Ford so has limited my options.

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[larry_arizona]

Anyone considering a Land Rover Defender 110 as a tow vehicle? It has a 8200 Ilbs tow capacity.
I'm really struggling to find a family vehicle that can be used to tow my newlfy purchased 2019 SA. The tow to the lake is only 5 miles so will probably not do any road trips with it. My wife does not like Ford so has limited my options.

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LR Defender didn’t do too bad in the gold standard Ike gauntlet towing test.

Should do just fine for your SA

https://youtu.be/poSHjxhDDaE


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[2in2out]

Anyone towed an SA with 2016-2020 tundra. I have a 2017 1794 with a 3” leveling kit, 33x12.5r20. It strained with my travel trailer off the start and on grades, but was otherwise fine.

CFO and I went to look at an SA this weekend and she has concerns. She gave the ok to trade her car for a larger truck. I don’t want to deal with diesel issues, so looking at ram 2500 gas, but I don’t think I’ll need it. Opinions?

[larry_arizona]

What gear ratio in that tundra, 33” tires are going to hurt ya, absolutely kills gear ratio.


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[rdlangston13]

What gear ratio in that tundra, 33” tires are going to hurt ya, absolutely kills gear ratio.


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What does the tundra come with? Can’t be much smaller than a 33. F150s come with 32s and goin up one in is not going to make that big of a difference.


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[larry_arizona]

What does the tundra come with? Can’t be much smaller than a 33. F150s come with 32s and goin up one in is not going to make that big of a difference.


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1” isn’t bad unless you are already borderline on ratio, it does reduce ratio, 2” in tire for example is significant.

3.55 on a 32, 33 drops to a 3.44, not that they make a 34, but it would 3.34.


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[Jaimeteddy]

Does anyone know how much weight you can pull with a Ford F-250 Super Duty? I saw a very neat hidden trailer hitch and am thinking of towing some things.

[sandm]

apparently jaimetedddy must be from china where google is banned :)

[parrothd]

Did you check out the Nissan Titan, stock towing capacity is 9300lbs, works great for my Craz with extra lead and gear.

[2in2out]

What gear ratio in that tundra, 33” tires are going to hurt ya, absolutely kills gear ratio.


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The axle ratio is 4.30. Stock tire size was 275/55R20. Pavement queen tires. I haven't noticed a tremendous reduction when towing my trailer. Transmission ratio between 4 and 7th is bad.

My trailer was 8500 loaded, but it had weight distribution and much more tongue weight because of the generator placement.

[rdlangston13]

1” isn’t bad unless you are already borderline on ratio, it does reduce ratio, 2” in tire for example is significant.

3.55 on a 32, 33 drops to a 3.44, not that they make a 34, but it would 3.34.


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They do make 34s. 275/65R20 is a 34


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[rdlangston13]

Does anyone know how much weight you can pull with a Ford F-250 Super Duty? I saw a very neat hidden trailer hitch and am thinking of towing some things.

Depending on year and how it’s equipped I would imagine it would be north of 15,000 lbs


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[larry_arizona]

The axle ratio is 4.30. Stock tire size was 275/55R20. Pavement queen tires. I haven't noticed a tremendous reduction when towing my trailer. Transmission ratio between 4 and 7th is bad.

My trailer was 8500 loaded, but it had weight distribution and much more tongue weight because of the generator placement.

Dang 4.30 is an impressive factory axle ratio with a 7 speed trans


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[2in2out]

Dang 4.30 is an impressive factory axle ratio with a 7 speed trans


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I guess if it can pull the space shuttle it can pull an SA. At least it's not like the Fords having an under-rated hitch.

[larry_arizona]

I guess if it can pull the space shuttle it can pull an SA. At least it's not like the Fords having an under-rated hitch.

Amen to that.


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[Surgical_ass]

Anyone towed an SA with 2016-2020 tundra. I have a 2017 1794 with a 3” leveling kit, 33x12.5r20. It strained with my travel trailer off the start and on grades, but was otherwise fine.

CFO and I went to look at an SA this weekend and she has concerns. She gave the ok to trade her car for a larger truck. I don’t want to deal with diesel issues, so looking at ram 2500 gas, but I don’t think I’ll need it. Opinions?

We just picked up a 19' 2500 ram 4x4 6.4L with the 8 speed transmission and 4.10 gearing. I am very pleased with the performance. Coming from a nissan titan its night and day difference. We definitely have room to grow with this truck. Most of the complaints pre 2019 were that the 6 speed transmission shift points were off. Not having driven a pre 2019 model I can not attest to this but I am pleased with the 8 speed. We looked at the f250 6.2 but could not find one with the gearing I wanted (4.30) I know the 3.73 would have been just fine for the mojo but if we ever got a camper I knew I would have wanted the towing gears. The base model ram (tradesman) is actually decently equipped compared to the ford XL. There were several changes to the ram line up in 2019 all of which I think really helped the trucks stand out. Wouldnt hesitate to buy one again

[Surgical_ass]

2019 ram 2500https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200914/87d10f302475d77af06451665817dcd1.jpg

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[2in2out]

The RAM 2500 mega cab with the 6.4 bed would be my upgrade option. My friend has a 2015 2500 diesel and wishes he'd gone gas, but is glad he doesn't have to deal with DEF.

[Surgical_ass]

The RAM 2500 mega cab with the 6.4 bed would be my upgrade option. My friend has a 2015 2500 diesel and wishes he'd gone gas, but is glad he doesn't have to deal with DEF.

One thing I was assuming before I bought the truck was that the backseat legroom would be one sacrifice made. My Titan had lots of room in the backseat and was something I really liked about the truck. After digging a little more the rear legroom was exactly the same in the 2019 Ram as it was in my Titan. I have been in a mega cab RAM and it is nice but I don't feel at all the need to have that over the legroom I have now. Plus I can still pull the truck and boat in my barn and shut the door without having to unhitch

[larry_arizona]

I guess if it can pull the space shuttle it can pull an SA. At least it's not like the Fords having an under-rated hitch.

Just curious, what does the Toyota hitch tag say for “weight carrying” rating?


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[sandm]

Just curious, what does the Toyota hitch tag say for “weight carrying” rating?


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and here we go again..... :)

[2in2out]

29032
9500 weight distributing trailer weight
9500 dead weight hitch trailer weight
950 weight distributing tongue weight
950 dead weight tongue weight
9500 max trailering capacity

[rdlangston13]

One thing I was assuming before I bought the truck was that the backseat legroom would be one sacrifice made. My Titan had lots of room in the backseat and was something I really liked about the truck. After digging a little more the rear legroom was exactly the same in the 2019 Ram as it was in my Titan. I have been in a mega cab RAM and it is nice but I don't feel at all the need to have that over the legroom I have now. Plus I can still pull the truck and boat in my barn and shut the door without having to unhitch

With the DEF systems and particulate filters and EGRs now a days if I ever bought a HD truck I would go gas too. I’ve been keeping an eye on the new Ford 7.3 Godzilla. Seems the goal was to go with tried and true simple technology for longevity.


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[Surgical_ass]

With the DEF systems and particulate filters and EGRs now a days if I ever bought a HD truck I would go gas too. I’ve been keeping an eye on the new Ford 7.3 Godzilla. Seems the goal was to go with tried and true simple technology for longevity.


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The 7.3 was in consideration. I would love to have one I was just nervous about it being a 1st year new model. I'm sure they will be just fine ford does a great job with their trucks. I agree with the hesitation on the new diesels. I know they can be deleated but I want a truck that can do everything I want it to do the way I want it to do it straight from the factory. I don't like doing modifications post production

[KnoxMojo]

If not needing or wanting new, or just don't tow very much, a used Chevy Avalanche could be the ticket. My old 04 Z71 tows 8000 pounds and gets 17 mpg highway. It is very comfortable around town and toddler approved, lol. I did upgrade the shocks and brakes and added Timbren progressive bump stops.... But for 5k all in, it is everything I need. The 09 and up LTZ are very nice, and the Cadillac EXT is amazing and tows even more. There is also an Avalanche 2500 option with an 8.1L that can tow about anything you put behind it.

[player1986]

The new Z71 Tahoe and Suburban look great

[Magnum]

I have a 2017 Ram 2500, but will need to upgrade my wife's SUV at some point if we want to pull the trailer as well.
Also - I noticed that without a drop hitch I've maxed the OEM trailer jack out. My truck is factory height with self levelling airbags.


https://i.ibb.co/xXhZwHk/hgf.jpg



And - barely fitting in my 8' garage door.
https://i.ibb.co/Xkh5ZKy/sdfsdf.jpg