2019 SE push?

[ChuckB]

I was ready to order a 2020 SL450 after my wife tore it up behind a 2019 SL450. I didn’t surf, however. Earlier this week I went out on a 2019 SE550 and it was me, a driver and a 245 pound buddy. The wave was not super long AND the push was much less than a G23 I was on this past weekend. I’m not a huge G23 fan because for me, the wave is really tall and tough for my kids and wife. The driver used autowake and he also manually dialed it in. My 245 pound buddy had the same opinion as me with the lack of push. The dealer sold all their SL boats, so the SE was my only choice. From what I have read, the SE should have a better wave than the SL. Any thoughts? Also, meant to mention that the driver was a salesperson who is very knowledgeable and easily did a 360 while I was driving.

I got a price on a G23 and about fell out of my work chair. Needless to say, I want the Supra SL to work out for the price.

Any thoughts?

[sandm]

have dealer find an SL since you liked them. if you buy an se and it takes a little longer to get the wave dialed, my gut is you will have regrets in the back of the brain.

SL would be a stellar boat...

[ChuckB]

The main problem is that the dealer doesn’t have any in stock and it may be a while until the 2020’s arrive. Also, I never surfed the SL. I drove while my wife surfed and she loved it. I assumed I would but maybe since I weigh 200 pounds it may not be as good as it was for her.

Anybody have experience with both a G23 and an SL with firsthand experience?

[Arcadyus]

Are you and your buddy good surfers?

[ChuckB]

Sorry, I should have mentioned that. We are by no means pros, but my buddy is really good...not doing 360’s or anything but he can carve away for 10 minutes without the rope until he gets tired. I’m not nearly as good as him, but can easily ditch the rope behind the G23. I can also have my 6 year old on the board and ditch the rope too. I’ve surfed behind my nautique 230 for 2 summers and my friend’s G23 for two summers as well so I’m decent. The Malibu MXZ has a bunch of push and was a long wave BUT it had a TON of bow rise.

Once again, I love the Supra SL, love the stereo, love everything about it except possibly not the surf wave which is most of what we do. Once again, I haven’t surfed behind the SL, only an SE which I have been told is even better.

[sandm]

take it with a grain of salt as he does webwork for skiers choice BUT having met him and knowing what he did for the tige brand he works and works at a boat until it has a good wave. you can get this out of it if you spend a little time dialing it in...
http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=809067

[Arcadyus]

Did you have extra lead in the boat?

[ChuckB]

No lead. It was a bone stock demo boat driven by the salesman at the boat dealership. But 4000 lbs of ballast is a bunch, right?

How much would some lead change things?

[RUGER761]

We demoed a 19SE 550 and I was super impressed with just a driver and my wife. Granted I’m coming from a small wave on a longer board, so I’ve learned to ride a minimal wake. But I had no issues at all with push at 190lbs on the SE and my board. Few more guys in the boat or little lead it would be a monster especially with the correct board to match the wave I think. Either way I don’t think you can go wrong. It’s a big investment so better get what you want and have no regrets

[RUGER761]

On your demo, what was the fuel level as 80 gal of gas adds a lot of weight. Our dealer filled it all the way up.

[Arcadyus]

No lead. It was a bone stock demo boat driven by the salesman at the boat dealership. But 4000 lbs of ballast is a bunch, right?

How much would some lead change things?

That boat holds 2800lbs over stock ballast, so no 400lbs is not a lot for a boat that size. 1000lbs of lead will make a very big difference.

[MJHSupra]

With most posts I've read on the SL and SE, people appear to be adding 800 or 1000# with a smaller crew.

Wake9 just did a video (part 1 of 2, not sure if they made part 2) of their new SE550 for this year. They had a SL550 as their previous model (last year). The summary was, they loved the SL, but once they rode the SE, they claim that exceeded the SL. SL had a more smooth transition, but the SE had more power, speed, and firmness.

The guy can really dial in a Supra Boat.

Plus they also have some good discussions on:
* Autowake On vs Autowake Off.
* Stock vs 1000# ballast
* Where they placed the ballast

Their kids ride really well. Plus they have some bigger people riding.

https://wake9.com/featured-videos/

[ChuckB]

Ok, thanks for all the help. Maybe the boat wasn't set up the best way or something too. G23 with just 4 total adults (including the driver) and no additional lead or anything has a powerful wave and I didn't experience that with the SE and just 3 of us. He did autowake for a little bit and then took it off. Who knows.

[Prospersigman]

I have 1st hand experience on my 2018 SL550, my buddies 2019 SL450 and my other buddies 2019 G23. I have not surfed a 2018 or newer SE.

I can tell you that you will not be disappointed in the SL wave!! It is as long and tall as you want it to be with 100% full ballast and 650-800 lbs of lead.

The wave is longer than a G23 wave, much smoother and cleaner.

[moombacraze]

I too have first hand experience with my 2019 SL550 and my friends have a G23 and G25. I prefer my SL wave over both of those waves. It is smoother and longer. I still can’t wipe the grin of my face every time I surf behind it.




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[ChuckB]

Thanks for the info. After my SE ride this week, I had ruled out the SL all together. Thanks for keeping it alive for me!

[Prospersigman]

Honestly, you would be making a giant mistake if you left off the SL! Not to mention storage galore, power tower, all sub floor ballast with 6 pumps, chill-tech vinyl, I could go on and on.

Hands down the best deal for the money that is out there in the upper level surf boats.

[ChuckB]

Okay, thanks. I will test out an SL as soon as the dealer gets one.

[trace]

We've got 100+ hours on our '19 SE 450 and we have NO lack of push. That said, setup and displacement are everything. We didn't like the factory preset numbers, they felt like they are really setup for a decent wave on both sides for switching, but not necessarily the best wave available on either side. We run 8.5 deg pitch and 4.5 deg of roll at 11.6-12.0. 3 people in an SE with no additional ballast means you left a whole lot of wave sitting on the table. We run a 3 person crew frequently, but we added 1000lbs of lead to it too and hardly ever run the fuel tank below 1/2. The SE will typically run at a lower bow angle than the SL will. We've ridden a stock G23 with 7 people aboard and our SE setup is sooooo much better.

[ChuckB]

Okay. But would you think that a stock G23 and your Supra SE without lead have a similar length wave and similar push? I’m just trying to see if this SE was maybe totally jacked up on the setup. I know that he had it autowake at first and then changed to full ballasts on a preset setting of some sort. My 245 pound buddy barely had enough push to throw the rope and the wave was considerably shorter than his stock (non lead added) G23. The last thing I want to do is pay that kind of money for a boat and my wife and son don’t even like the steepness.

[ChuckB]

Oops. For some reason I can’t edit from my phone. Meant to say at end that wife and son hate the steepness of G23 and I don’t want to pay that much either.

[tre]

ChuckB, please let me know how the SL compares.

trace, do you add any lead or just use stock ballast. do you wakeboard? curious how long it takes for the boat to plane both will ballast full and ballast empty. I saw a youtube review that said 18 seconds to plane with full ballast which would make it the slowest planing boat on the market so I'm thinking they had the wrong prop or were not using the launch system with all the rear plates down. curious what your experience is.

[trace]

Sorry Tre, we don't wakeboard so I can't answer your time to plane loaded question. I have put it on plane fully loaded and the wake looked HUGE all the way up to 25mph.

ChuckB, no I wouldn't expect the waves to be similar with no lead. The G23 surf system has limited growth capability, just like the surfgate systems, meaning you start adding ballast and you'll hit a knee in the curve where the wave won't continue to grow in size while you keep adding more weight, the supra system just keeps growing in size as you throw more weight at it.

I will say one thing that seems to get overlooked is every boat has a different wave shape and the riders skill and technique to max utilize each of those waves is different, meaning your surfing technique can have a big impact on your perception of a particular wave unless you spend a lot of time on it. I'm not surprised your 245 lb friend used to riding his steep faced G23 wave had trouble on a stock SE wave.

[ChuckB]

Trace, how much lead are you talking? Would you suggest 1000 lbs or something?

[MJHSupra]

I was in a 2020 SE last night for a demo ride. It had 800# of lead and a crew of 8-10 people. It was not that steep faced wave as a G, but the push of the wave made me align my stance/feet a little different the board. Push was sending me to the back of the boat depending how I rode down the wave. I'm 235# and it did take a few pulls to start to understand how to ride it - just different from what I used to. Wish I had more time.

Also got to ride a 2018 SL that afternoon (good day for me) Very clean wave with 3 people and 1000# of lead.

The SE is great but just too big for me. With that 8-10 crew, there will still plenty of room and nobody was cramped.
With 100% weight, they do take some time to plane out.

I also got to ride in the 2019 Fi25 Centurion that day - not surfing. That is a longer wave and adjustable, but I it was also running 5K ballast. The SE was much nicer overall.

[Shoebox]

Fi wave is incredible, but the bow rise was a deal killer for me.

[MJHSupra]

Fi wave is incredible, but the bow rise was a deal killer for me.

Good point. Once the boat started moving, I was too busy looking back at that wave action, Ha Ha.
The dealer did all the driving and controls, I was just along for the ride.

[ChuckB]

So I know this is a Supra/Moomba forum, but the $1,000,000 question...................given the choice between Nautique G23 or Supra SL loaded with the 450 motor for at least $25,000 less (with adequate lead). We surf 90% and throw kids around on the tube the rest of the time. Never wakeboard, at least not so far. I did a demo behind a Malibu 23 MXZ and the wave was great, but the finish out was "okay-ish" but nothing like the G23 or Supra. I didn't like the Mastercraft at all. So it's down to the Supra SL or G23. I honestly can't decide and don't have a way to demo an SL with lead.....1) I don't have lead and 2) No SL's in stock at the dealer here in Austin.

[larry_arizona]

I know kids love to tube, but I cringe at the idea of using a SL or G for tubing...


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[MJHSupra]

Tubes - many on here will complain about them and the gas consumption they use, but the kids love them.

I forgot my tube the last time out (really did) and there were some frowns on the little faces.


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[NWTyler]

We've got 100+ hours on our '19 SE 450 and we have NO lack of push. That said, setup and displacement are everything. We didn't like the factory preset numbers, they felt like they are really setup for a decent wave on both sides for switching, but not necessarily the best wave available on either side. We run 8.5 deg pitch and 4.5 deg of roll at 11.6-12.0. 3 people in an SE with no additional ballast means you left a whole lot of wave sitting on the table. We run a 3 person crew frequently, but we added 1000lbs of lead to it too and hardly ever run the fuel tank below 1/2. The SE will typically run at a lower bow angle than the SL will. We've ridden a stock G23 with 7 people aboard and our SE setup is sooooo much better.

How do you distribute you lead out....I’m going to dema a se soon and would like to bring some lead along

[NewbFam5]

So I know this is a Supra/Moomba forum, but the $1,000,000 question...................given the choice between Nautique G23 or Supra SL loaded with the 450 motor for at least $25,000 less (with adequate lead). We surf 90% and throw kids around on the tube the rest of the time. Never wakeboard, at least not so far. I did a demo behind a Malibu 23 MXZ and the wave was great, but the finish out was "okay-ish" but nothing like the G23 or Supra. I didn't like the Mastercraft at all. So it's down to the Supra SL or G23. I honestly can't decide and don't have a way to demo an SL with lead.....1) I don't have lead and 2) No SL's in stock at the dealer here in Austin.

ChuckB,
I am not a boat owner yet, have been shopping for the past 2 years and have demoed a few boats including the a 2019 G23 and a 2019 SL400. The SL had 800# of lead if I remember correctly, #250 each rear locker and 150# each mid-cabin, weighted evenly both sides. The G rep said there was no lead but I'm very certain I saw lead under the seats when he was showing me the hinged seat cushions. What I can tell you is that the G surf wave was big and steep. I'm new to this and my kids are young so I will tell you I will not be getting that boat based on the wave alone. It is way too steep for novice riders in my opinion. I think kids would find it scary. The G wake board wave at 22.8 was way too big for me, again novice rider but just sharing. The SL we demoed was great. I didn't feel like I was in an "inferior" boat based on build quality, fit and finish. The SL rocks and I have been dead set on that is the boat I want until I sat in a 2020 SA. Now I'm starting all over again. The SA groupies on here swear by their SA and are super stoked about sub-floor ballast, etc. I like the lines of the SA because it looks meaner than the SL but the mid-cabin of the SL is really nice and the surf wave was really good. I had never surfed so didn't drop the rope but was up and carving against a wave that was waist high or better and I'm 6'1. I was more focused on staying upright so not a great surf review but personally after being in both boats I am Supra 100%.

[Mobius22]

Robert Garcia with Wake 9 would be a great guy to contact regarding setup. Or just watch his reviews of the SL and SE. Should have a new one soon on the SA.

If anyone questions the push of the Supra wave, his videos will definitely show you that it has push for days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWFu5q3mUj4

[jcredible]

I will second that, I rode Robert's SL at Polar Bear last year and that wave is smooth, consistent push, and long! If money was no object I would be into an SL :)

Interested to see the 2020 SA review from the Wake9 team!

[haknslash]

I love his videos. Just wished he posted more of them!

I’m glad they moved to TN and plan to have the Polar Bear event on Norris this year. I’ll finally be able to drive to and attend!

[trace]

How do you distribute you lead out....I’m going to dema a se soon and would like to bring some lead along

My lead is mostly mid-ship and biased about 100-150 lbs to the port side. The important part, is place the lead and people in the boat so that you keep the ballast maxed out at your desired pitch and roll. We typically have a 3 person crew, driver, passenger, surfer. 11.6-12 mph, pitch 8.5+, roll 4.5 center plate at 0, surfplate opposite the surfer 80-85 for surfing port side, 90 for surfing starboard side. Will typically run about .2 mph faster on the starboard side.