HELP!!! I bought new tower speakers and an amp...now what?

[Moomba Dad]

I have a 2005 Moomba Möbius LSV. My son just got a summer internship working for Harman just in time to qualify for their bi-annual sale at some ridiculous prices. Harman has access to quite a few companies that sell sound hardware. One of which is JBL. So, I decided to purchase a pair of tower speakers and an amp for my Moomba. Let me say that I have very little stereo knowledge and now feel that I might have bit off more than I can chew.

They’re all by JBL products as follows:

Speakers - 8” 150Wrms, 450W peak, 4 ohms
Amp - 5 channel, 1800W peak

I’m hoping it’s enough for a decent system.


Now the problem. I didn’t realize what I was getting myself into. LOL. After receiving the goods I started looking into how to install them and came up with a bunch of questions. Some of which are:
1) Can I connect this amp to my existing speakers and my new tower speakers? If not, how would the sound be if I only used the tower speakers? Or do I need a 2nd amp for my existing speakers?
2) I need to purchase a new stereo unit that has blue tooth capability...and recommendations? I have a lot of CD’s also and wouldn’t mind being able to play them also. (I know, I know...old school here. LOL.)
3) Can I do all this on one battery, or should I really have two? And it so, this will create a whole new list of questions like how to wire, switch/link, location, etc.
4) What wire gauge for the speakers? I bought some 16 gauge, but after multiple searches it looks like I might need something heavier like 12 gauge?
5) How and wear to mount the amp(s)?

Anything you all can do to help guide me to completion will be greatly appreciated. And warm weather is due here in Michigan soon!

Thanx!

[Stazi]

Where are you in MI? I might be able to help.


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[Moomba Dad]

Where are you in MI? I might be able to help.


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I live in Novi, but my Moomba is up North by Hale.

[Stazi]

I’m in Commerce Twp. So super close.


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[Moomba Dad]

I’m in Commerce Twp. So super close.


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Any advice would be appreciated.

[Stazi]

Do you know what model amp it is?
Sounds like it might have 4 channels and a sub channel which would be good for in boats and a sub. But it might work for towers.


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[Moomba Dad]

It’s a JBL Marine amp MA4505 w/ 5 channels.

[Stazi]

Looks like you could run it bridges at 4Ωx2 and get 130W per channel. Should work.

It’s really meant for the in boats and a sub but you could use it for the towers. Personally I’d use it for the in boats, add a sub and buy another amp to run the towers. Then you would have a fully kick ass sound system.


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[Moomba Dad]

Looks like you could run it bridges at 4Ωx2 and get 130W per channel. Should work.

It’s really meant for the in boats and a sub but you could use it for the towers. Personally I’d use it for the in boats, add a sub and buy another amp to run the towers. Then you would have a fully kick ass sound system.


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I’m not what “bridges at 4 x 2” means. I would prefer not to dump more money into it if I can. I would think these speakers and amp would be a HUGE improvement over what I have now...would you agree?

[Stazi]

You could make it work. You just need someone who knows how to wire it up.

If you get the boat back to Novi, let me know.


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[MLA]

Bridging the amp into to 3 chnl mode would leave the in-boats out of the mix, as it would be driving a woofer and a single pair of tower speakers.

[Stazi]

Bridging the amp into to 3 chnl mode would leave the in-boats out of the mix, as it would be driving a woofer and a single pair of tower speakers.

Yep.

I think he’d be better off with one of these:
https://www.jbl.com/marine-audio/JBL+MARINE+MA704.html?dwvar_JBL%20MARINE%20MA704_c olor=White%20Matte-GLOBAL-Current

He’d have to buy a sub in a box like this:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-VJ5NDRi8BcB/p_109STAGE21/JBL-Stage-1200B.html?XVINQ=SWK&XVVER=002&awkw=293946777986&awat=showcase_product&awnw=g&awcr=298688432816&awmt=&awdv=m&awug=1019316&gclid=Cj0KEQjw3PLnBRCpo8PCoaGM99MBEiQAppRuC7o7f_wg UP2ey1___IkZPYj5t0lvvdgKn3QWI2esLhAaAhK68P8HAQ
but you could have the whole system up and running and sounding way better.


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[Moomba Dad]

Looks like you could run it bridges at 4Ωx2 and get 130W per channel. Should work.


It’s really meant for the in boats and a sub but you could use it for the towers. Personally I’d use it for the in boats, add a sub and buy another amp to run the towers. Then you would have a fully kick ass sound system.


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Thank you for your responses.

So are you suggesting I bridge four channels into two, and then use those to power the two new tower speakers? If so, how would I power the existing in boat speakers? Or do I just run them direct to the receiver?

Again, thank you for your help.

[Moomba Dad]

Yep.

I think he’d be better off with one of these:
https://www.jbl.com/marine-audio/JBL+MARINE+MA704.html?dwvar_JBL%20MARINE%20MA704_c olor=White%20Matte-GLOBAL-Current

He’d have to buy a sub in a box like this:
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-VJ5NDRi8BcB/p_109STAGE21/JBL-Stage-1200B.html?XVINQ=SWK&XVVER=002&awkw=293946777986&awat=showcase_product&awnw=g&awcr=298688432816&awmt=&awdv=m&awug=1019316&gclid=Cj0KEQjw3PLnBRCpo8PCoaGM99MBEiQAppRuC7o7f_wg UP2ey1___IkZPYj5t0lvvdgKn3QWI2esLhAaAhK68P8HAQ
but you could have the whole system up and running and sounding way better.


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Are you suggesting I add this amp for my current in-boat speakers, and bridge the amp I already have for my new tower speakers?

Would I then have to upgrade my current in-boat speakers also?

[Moomba Dad]

Bridging the amp into to 3 chnl mode would leave the in-boats out of the mix, as it would be driving a woofer and a single pair of tower speakers.


That’s what I thought. Thank you for clarifying for me.

[Stazi]

Are you suggesting I add this amp for my current in-boat speakers, and bridge the amp I already have for my new tower speakers?

Would I then have to upgrade my current in-boat speakers also?

No...the other way around. The amp you bought is meant for the in boats (cabin speakers) and a sub. Hence why it has 5 channels. 4 regular full range speakers and 1 sub (low freq only). You can run 6 in boaters on it and sub, too (the 2 bow speakers on 2 of the channels and the 4 from the cockpit area, bridged, and running on the remaining 2 channels). That is what I am doing with my 5-channel Kicker amp (Kicker KX800.5)

Then I said to get a second amp, which I posted a link for, to be dedicated JUST for the towers. The amp I posted also has more power for those 2 tower speakers, then the amp you already have, AND it will produce a cleaner more power sound from the towers.


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[Moomba Dad]

No...the other way around. The amp you bought is meant for the in boats (cabin speakers) and a sub. Hence why it has 5 channels. 4 regular full range speakers and 1 sub (low freq only). You can run 6 in boaters on it and sub, too (the 2 bow speakers on 2 of the channels and the 4 from the cockpit area, bridged, and running on the remaining 2 channels). That is what I am doing with my 5-channel Kicker amp (Kicker KX800.5)

Then I said to get a second amp, which I posted a link for, to be dedicated JUST for the towers. The amp I posted also has more power for those 2 tower speakers, then the amp you already have, AND it will produce a cleaner more power sound from the towers.


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OOOOkay. Gotcha!

So will this amp for my existing in-boat speakers be overpowering for them? Could they blow?

Also, is there a way to adjust the volume of the in-boat speakers and volume of the tower speakers independently? I would think this is a common concern.

Thank you again for your help! I really appreciate it.

[Stazi]

It’s better to have more power than needed, than not enough. Also you always want to look at RMS power, not peak. And that amp you have now is designed with a regular boat setup in mind.

When you run too small an amp and then try to crank up the volume, your amp with start to clip the signal and that’s what destroys speakers.

Yes, you can set up the gains on each of the amps to set the volume separately to the tower and the in boats and that will keep that ratio the same.

Now, if you want to be able to constantly adjust the volume from the towers or the in boats, then you would need to get a zone controller. If you don’t care and can live with the towers always louder than the inboats then you can skip the zone controller.




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[Moomba Dad]

It’s better to have more power than needed, than not enough. Also you always want to look at RMS power, not peak. And that amp you have now is designed with a regular boat setup in mind.

When you run too small an amp and then try to crank up the volume, your amp with start to clip the signal and that’s what destroys speakers.

Yes, you can set up the gains on each of the amps to set the volume separately to the tower and the in boats and that will keep that ratio the same.

Now, if you want to be able to constantly adjust the volume from the towers or the in boats, then you would need to get a zone controller. If you don’t care and can live with the towers always louder than the inboats then you can skip the zone controller.




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I think I'll try it without a zone controller first to see how it performs. I'll have to look into how to set up the gains on the amps. It looks like there are some "Gains" dials that will need adjusting.

Thank you again for all of your guidance It's very helpful.

A couple more quick items (1) can I run all of this on one battery, or should I consider two?; (2) If two, could you suggest the type of battery and link/shut off hardware that I'll need please; and (3) what type of fuses/breakers work best for my amps? (It looks like I'll need a 100A and a 60A.)

Thanx again for your time & your help!

[Shoebox]

Definitely get a zone controller. Best thing I did for my sound system. Every song is different, I'm constantly adjusting my sub output, and turning down the towers when nobody is behind the boat is nice.

[Moomba Dad]

Definitely get a zone controller. Best thing I did for my sound system. Every song is different, I'm constantly adjusting my sub output, and turning down the towers when nobody is behind the boat is nice.

Sounds like it might be a good idea. Any suggestions on the hardware? What make/model did you install?

[Shoebox]

Sounds like it might be a good idea. Any suggestions on the hardware? What make/model did you install?I have the Exile ZLD, and added their Bluetooth module. I never use my head unit anymore. Wet Sounds has a good one, too, the WS-420.

[Moomba Dad]

I have the Exile ZLD, and added their Bluetooth module. I never use my head unit anymore. Wet Sounds has a good one, too, the WS-420.

Cool, Thanx!

[Moomba Dad]

Stazi,

I have a couple more questions for you if you don't mind addressing them.

I think I'll try it without a zone controller first to see how it performs. I'll have to look into how to set up the gains on the amps. It looks like there are some "Gains" dials that will need adjusting.

A couple more quick items (1) can I run all of this on one battery, or should I consider two?; (2) If two, could you suggest the type of battery and link/shut off hardware that I'll need please; and (3) what type of fuses/breakers work best for my amps? (It looks like I'll need a 100A and a 60A.)

Thanx again for your time & your help!

[Stazi]

You CAN run off one battery, but I wouldn’t recommend it. Especially if you want to spend any time just sitting with the engine off and the stereo on. The last thing you want to do is drain the one and only battery you have and not be able to start the boat.

Go buy another 24 series “deep cycle” marine battery and use that for just the stereo components.

I use a battery doctor to connect the two batteries together so that they can both be charged by the alternator, but only the secondary battery is used for the stereo and it preserves the primary battery for the boat and those main necessities. With this you do NOT need any extra switches etc. just follow the wiring diagram included with it. It works awesome and you never have to worry about what battery is switched on or off like you do with Perko switches.
WirthCo 20092 Battery Doctor 125 Amp/150 Amp Battery Isolator https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0058SGDFK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_QY..Cb98TWVZE

You will also need a set of wires and fuses etc. for connecting up the 2 Amps to the stereo and speakers etc. Check out the links I provided.
KnuKonceptz KCA Complete 4 Gauge Amp Installation Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0050I6KII/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_A4..CbA8HBMNR this kit is for ONE amp.

Also you need a set of RCA splitters to split you signal from your stereo to the two amps if your head unit only has one set of RCA outputs.
4 Pack 1 Female to 2 Male RCA Y Adapter Connector and 1 Male to 2 Female RCA Speaker Splitter Shielding Cable Adapter 1ft https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07KBVDBL3/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_l7..Cb2EDW1VW

Again if you get you boat down to Novi, I can show you the way.



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[Moomba Dad]

I'm looking into a zone controller (equalizer) and keep hearing about the Wet Sounds WS-420BT - Marie Audio Multi Zone Equalizer with Integrated Bluetooth.

But the price on my project just keeps escalating. Is there anything out there similar to the Wet Sounds that's not so expensive?

Thank you in advance.

[Shoebox]

I'm looking into a zone controller (equalizer) and keep hearing about the Wet Sounds WS-420BT - Marie Audio Multi Zone Equalizer with Integrated Bluetooth.

But the price on my project just keeps escalating. Is there anything out there similar to the Wet Sounds that's not so expensive?

Thank you in advance.Exile ZLD. No mic but works great and cheaper than Wet Sounds.

[rdlangston13]

I'm looking into a zone controller (equalizer) and keep hearing about the Wet Sounds WS-420BT - Marie Audio Multi Zone Equalizer with Integrated Bluetooth.

But the price on my project just keeps escalating. Is there anything out there similar to the Wet Sounds that's not so expensive?

Thank you in advance.

Like Shoebox mentioned, the ZLD is you next best option but you do lose some key features such as the mic, the ability to adjust the eq on each zone independently, and the BT function. Exile also sells a tower volume knob by itself for like $60 so that may be a good budget option.

[Moomba Dad]

Shoebox & rdlangston3,

First, thank you both for responding! I really appreciate it.

I guess I should explain my wishes/needs to help clarify what I want. I will have (a) the existing in-boat speakers, (b) two new JBL 8" tower speakers, and (c) a new 12" JBL sub woofer. I would like to adjust the volume each of the three separately. If I want to take a mellow cruise around the lake at sunset and listen to some music I want to be able to do it without blasting my tower speakers and subwoofer. But, I do have two sons (ages 23 & 21) that will love to do the opposite. LOL. I would think this is a common idea?

I'm not sure if I need a simple 3-zone volume control (or if they even are available). Do I need to be able to adjust the eq on each zone indepenently? Keep in mind I am "not" an audiophile...at least net yet, I might be though if I ever complete this project. LOL.

So, based on that which hardware do you think will fit my needs?

Thank you again!

[Shoebox]

Get the ZLD and Bluetooth adapter. Works great, can control all zones independently, and cheaper than WS.

[Moomba Dad]

Get the ZLD and Bluetooth adapter. Works great, can control all zones independently, and cheaper than WS.

It looks like the ZLD goes for about $300. Where do you suggest I buy from?

Thank you!

[BigOrange]

Contact Exile direct via their website. They might even have some demo deals for you.

[Moomba Dad]

Contact Exile direct via their website. They might even have some demo deals for you.

I see they sell it with a kit, but are back ordered for 2-3 weeks.

[BigOrange]

Call their number from the website and speak to Brian or Donovan direct. They might have one in stock.

[Moomba Dad]

I have some questions regarding the Exile ZLD. I'm only planning on having two amps: one for the tower, and one for the cabin/subwoofer. The exile ZLD has three zones: one for the tower, one for the cabin and one for the subwoofer. How would I connect this considering I only have two amps? Do I really need this since I only have two amps? Is there a decent zone controller out there that's designed for only two zones that might work better with my application and maybe cost less $?

Thank you.

[Shoebox]

I have some questions regarding the Exile ZLD. I'm only planning on having two amps: one for the tower, and one for the cabin/subwoofer. The exile ZLD has three zones: one for the tower, one for the cabin and one for the subwoofer. How would I connect this considering I only have two amps? Do I really need this since I only have two amps? Is there a decent zone controller out there that's designed for only two zones that might work better with my application and maybe cost less $?

Thank you.What amp do you have for the cabins/sub? This assumes you have a 5-channel amp with separate inputs/outputs for cabins and sub.

You have one output from the stereo into the ZLD, and one input from the Bluetooth adapter. You have 3 outputs, one to tower amp, one to cabin input on the 5-channel amp and one to the sub input.

[Moomba Dad]

What amp do you have for the cabins/sub? This assumes you have a 5-channel amp with separate inputs/outputs for cabins and sub.

You have one output from the stereo into the ZLD, and one input from the Bluetooth adapter. You have 3 outputs, one to tower amp, one to cabin input on the 5-channel amp and one to the sub input.

This is what I have:

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-GUAUj2858Qj/p_109MA4505/JBL-MA4505.html?XVINQ=GLX&awkw=452739201026&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=273365039965&awdv=t&awug=9017001&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9JzoBRDjARIsAGcdIDVFj-WYnKRFVkdLLwFfWNgkg4cTuEb9cY0nQ06PnY3T-8nR3I11WKcaAofmEALw_wcB

It’s a JBL 5 channel amp.

[Shoebox]

This is what I have:

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-GUAUj2858Qj/p_109MA4505/JBL-MA4505.html?XVINQ=GLX&awkw=452739201026&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=273365039965&awdv=t&awug=9017001&gclid=Cj0KCQjw9JzoBRDjARIsAGcdIDVFj-WYnKRFVkdLLwFfWNgkg4cTuEb9cY0nQ06PnY3T-8nR3I11WKcaAofmEALw_wcB

It’s a JBL 5 channel amp.Perfect, so you wire it into 3 zones, with the tower amp.

[Kirby]

ZLD is awesome! Being able to adjust the independent zones to your musical liking is fantastic.

[Moomba Dad]

Perfect, so you wire it into 3 zones, with the tower amp.


ZLD is awesome! Being able to adjust the independent zones to your musical liking is fantastic.

Great! I'm excited about getting what it'll sound like when I'm done. But getting to that point is going to be a struggle. LOL.

[Moomba Dad]

I ordered the Exile ZLD w/ the blue tooth adaptor last night from Bakes. Withing three hours I received an email that it had already shipped! Crazy fast.

[Kirby]

You'll love it. Make sure you get that extra battery too. I admire your willingness to install yourself!

[Shoebox]

I ordered the Exile ZLD w/ the blue tooth adaptor last night from Bakes. Withing three hours I received an email that it had already shipped! Crazy fast.That's great! You'll need 4 sets of RC cables. 1 from head unit to zld, 3 from zld to amps.

[Moomba Dad]

That's great! You'll need 4 sets of RC cables. 1 from head unit to zld, 3 from zld to amps.

Understood. Any idea what length I'll need? I'll be running them from the port side battery storage area to the starboard dash area.

Also, I'm not sure what gauge wire I should run from the batteries to the Perko Battery Selector Switch, and from that Switch to my amps?

Thanks to everybody who's contributed!

[Moomba Dad]

You'll love it. Make sure you get that extra battery too. I admire your willingness to install yourself!

HA! Thanks...I think. I can usually figure complicated things out, if I have enough time. Boy is this taking a "lot" of time. LOL. I'll let you know how it goes.

[Stazi]

I’ll try and help where I can.


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[Moomba Dad]

I’ll try and help where I can.


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Thanks Stazi! You've already been helping.

[Moomba Dad]

Well I’m about to start my install of my two amps. Would anybody have any pics of how they installed their amp(s) to give me some ideas?

Thank you.

[Shoebox]

Well I’m about to start my install of my two amps. Would anybody have any pics of how they installed their amp(s) to give me some ideas?

Thank you.These are the pics I have. I can get more in a couple of hours.

Top amp is 5 channel, 4 to cabins, 1 to sub. Bottom is towers. Wiring pics are the tower amp. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190624/8424be99e7c481ed33c8e15fbbb8f8aa.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190624/2f53bdf9f24626c5e8d0e482779fdb06.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190624/aaf148e1810f42a2eb097d900d861cb0.jpg

[Moomba Dad]

These are the pics I have. I can get more in a couple of hours.

Top amp is 5 channel, 4 to cabins, 1 to sub. Bottom is towers. Wiring pics are the tower amp. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190624/8424be99e7c481ed33c8e15fbbb8f8aa.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190624/2f53bdf9f24626c5e8d0e482779fdb06.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190624/aaf148e1810f42a2eb097d900d861cb0.jpg

Shoebox,

Thanx for the pics. Nice looking install!

How/what did you mount the amps to? It looks like you installed another board or something and covered it with carpeting? How did you attach this to the hull/boat? Pics of your method of attachment would be very much appreciated.

Thank you again!

[Shoebox]

Shoebox,

Thanx for the pics. Nice looking install!

How/what did you mount the amps to? It looks like you installed another board or something and covered it with carpeting? How did you attach this to the hull/boat? Pics of your method of attachment would be very much appreciated.

Thank you again!That board was in the boat, I'm guessing from the factory. Most boats have the amps mounted there now. It's 1/2" hdpe. If I were going to install it, I wouldn't bother carpeting it, just more stuff to hold water, and makes it harder to cool the amps. Epoxy doesn't stick to hdpe very well, so you could epoxy a couple pieces of marine ply to the fiberglass hull, and screw the hdpe to that.

[Moomba Dad]

HDPE...hmmm. I'll have to investigate that.

Thank you.

[Stazi]

I used MDF and covered it with the same carpet that the factory uses. So long as you sit the board up off the floor it should not get wet, especially in that cubby. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190624/cb9d0a84b5e87852ce6d0ac56b97b083.jpg


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[Moomba Dad]

I used MDF and covered it with the same carpet that the factory uses. So long as you sit the board up off the floor it should not get wet, especially in that cubby. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190624/cb9d0a84b5e87852ce6d0ac56b97b083.jpg


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Stazi,

Nice and clean!

How did you attache your MDF? Looks like you screwed it in place. I'm nervous about doing that. I don't want to screw through the hull!

[Shoebox]

Mdf is about the worst thing to use in a boat. It will disintegrate if it gets wet. Wet stuff still finds its way in that compartment on occasion, and it's also where the end of the bow bag sits, and wet kid butts sit right above that in the bow, so water does find its way in there. At least use marine ply.

[Stazi]

Mdf is about the worst thing to use in a boat. It will disintegrate if it gets wet. Wet stuff still finds its way in that compartment on occasion, and it's also where the end of the bow bag sits, and wet kid butts sit right above that in the bow, so water does find its way in there. At least use marine ply.

Actually now I remember it was marine ply, not MDF. D’oh!

I screwed it into the two “bolsters” from the factory that ate there for that exact thing!

On the older boats they didn’t put those bolsters in, so a lot of the older boats have the amp rack screwed into the backrest of the front seat. Just use the right sized screws to be long enough, but not too long that they protrude into the cushion.


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[Moomba Dad]

Ok, so I’m trying to wire my Perko switch now and have a question. I currently have two wires going to positive and two to negative. Each has a large gauge and a small gauge wire. How do I wire the two positive wires? I’m sure the large gauge goes to the Perko. Does the small gauge go there too?

[Moomba Dad]

Next question(s). I have received advice to install a circuit breaker (I bought a 200 amp), and also advice to install fuses on each amp (100 amp and 60 amp). Should I do all of the above? If so, where in my circuitry should I install the 200 amp circuit breaker.

Also, I have a 50 amp circuit breaker from the boat originally. Do I install that also? And if so where in my circuitry should this go?

Thank you all in advance for your help!

I’m trying to finalize this by Tuesday night to take if up North for the long 4th of July weekend. It would great to have some New Tunes to play. Keeping my fingers crossed!!!

[Moomba Dad]

One more question (sorry). Where do I find the power to turn on my Amps and Pre Amp so they don’t drain my battery(s)? Thank you all again!

Can you tell I’m right in the thick of the wiring phase? LOL.

[MLA]

Also, I have a 50 amp circuit breaker from the boat originally. Do I install that also? And if so where in my circuitry should this go?

Curious how you ended up with an extra breaker.

[Stazi]

One more question (sorry). Where do I find the power to turn on my Amps and Pre Amp so they don’t drain my battery(s)? Thank you all again!

Can you tell I’m right in the thick of the wiring phase? LOL.

There should be a “remote” wire coming off your head unit. It is almost always blue. This wire can be connected to each of the remote connections on each amp.


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[Moomba Dad]

Curious how you ended up with an extra breaker.

The 50 amp is what was on the boat originally.

With my two new amplifiers I required more (100 amp & 60 amp) I purchased a 200 amp to run both through.

From what I've read lately I believe I leave the 50 amp in place for the in original boat wiring and install the 200 amp for the amplifier circuit. Would you agree?

[Stazi]

Yes. The batteries for the amps should be on their own circuit.


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[Moomba Dad]

There should be a “remote” wire coming off your head unit. It is almost always blue. This wire can be connected to each of the remote connections on each amp.


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Stazi,

Thank you. Should I connect this to the pre-amp (Exile) too? What gauge wire should I use?

Thank you for your help!

[Stazi]

Yes anything that needs a “turn on signal“. You can daisy chain this from one device to the other.

The voltage is minimal I think like round about 5 V and very little current, so a 16 gauge wire is more than enough. Usually with most of the amplifier installation kits you get they have a huge spool of this blue wire included for this exact use.



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[Moomba Dad]

Yes anything that needs a “turn on signal“. You can daisy chain this from one device to the other.

The voltage is minimal I think like round about 5 V and very little current, so a 16 gauge wire is more than enough. Usually with most of the amplifier installation kits you get they have a huge spool of this blue wire included for this exact use.



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Cool, thanx!

[Moomba Dad]

Stazi,

For my amp battery circuit what are your thoughts about using a 200 amp circuit breaker and then install separate fuses for each amp?

Thanx!

[Shoebox]

Stazi,

For my amp battery circuit what are your thoughts about using a 200 amp circuit breaker and then install separate fuses for each amp?

Thanx!Seems like overkill. You'll never trip the breaker with the lower amperage of the fuses.

[Stazi]

Exactly.

All you need is a 50A fuse to each amp.

There’s no realistic way on earth that 200A breaker will ever trip.


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[Shoebox]

Exactly.

All you need is a 50A fuse to each amp.

There’s no realistic way on earth that 200A breaker will ever trip.


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkLol right? That's whole-house amperage. My welder is on a 40A breaker. Whole shop is 60A.

[Moomba Dad]

My large amp states that it requires a 100 amp fuse and my small amp requires a 60 amp fuse. I read on this forum that I should add the two together and I can be up to 50% high than that total. It seemed like a lot to me too.

So do you think I can ditch the 200 amp breaker, and run two 4 gauge lines from the same battery terminal to each fuse and then to the respective amps?

[Stazi]

Exactly what you should do. Each amp needs its own power supply wire and fuse. The positive and negatives can both be run back to the same positive and negative terminals on your dedicated stereo battery.


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[MLA]

The 50 amp is what was on the boat originally.

With my two new amplifiers I required more (100 amp & 60 amp) I purchased a 200 amp to run both through.

From what I've read lately I believe I leave the 50 amp in place for the in original boat wiring and install the 200 amp for the amplifier circuit. Would you agree?

Yes, I understand is was in the boat originally, but was it protection and why is it now extra? I ask, because I do not read that an old amp was removed. My concern is that some circuit is now unprotected.

The max amperage your amps should ever pull cumulatively, is 160W based on their onboard fusing or the manufacture's spec. Its never safe, not needed, to fuse above that potential load. 200A is about 30% over rated. Now, the real problem is the focus put on circuit protection capacity, but can the cable support a 200A breaker? If not, then cable becomes the weak link and if there is a short, becomes a hot flaming molten rope of death, long before that 200W breaker might trip.

I would suggest a trunk/branch setup over individual amp supply runs. And I do not suggest automotive amp install kits. They rarely work well for boats. Buy the incidentals a-la-carte in the proper lengths and amp ratings for fuses or breakers.

[Stazi]

MLA I sent him links to Knu Konceptz individual cables. Those are quality wires that I have seen.


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[MLA]

Not all they sell is quality.

[Moomba Dad]

Yes, I understand is was in the boat originally, but was it protection and why is it now extra? I ask, because I do not read that an old amp was removed. My concern is that some circuit is now unprotected.

The max amperage your amps should ever pull cumulatively, is 160W based on their onboard fusing or the manufacture's spec. Its never safe, not needed, to fuse above that potential load. 200A is about 30% over rated. Now, the real problem is the focus put on circuit protection capacity, but can the cable support a 200A breaker? If not, then cable becomes the weak link and if there is a short, becomes a hot flaming molten rope of death, long before that 200W breaker might trip.

I would suggest a trunk/branch setup over individual amp supply runs. And I do not suggest automotive amp install kits. They rarely work well for boats. Buy the incidentals a-la-carte in the proper lengths and amp ratings for fuses or breakers.

Below is why I was using a 200 amp circuit breaker. I'm not saying I'm right, but this is why I was planning on using it.



philwsailz


Join Date
Nov 2009
Location
Stillwater, Oklahoma
Posts
397

Default

Quote Originally Posted by Hydrofoiljunky View Post
Ok, I have a couple questions. I finally got my other amplifier in so I'm ready to hook them both up. I'll be running a Kicker 700.5 and Kicker 550.2. Since my amps have fuses in them do I need to run inline fuses between the distribution block and the amps? Also, will running 4 gauge power from battery to the distribution block and then 4 gauge wire out to the two amps be alright? If not what kind/size of distribution block do you guys recommend and what kind of power wire off the battery to the block and out to the two amps? Thanks in advance.

P.S. Been trying to read up on Capacitors, do any of you guys run one? Did it help? Seems like from what I read that the first time the sub/s need that power it takes it all and then it can never catch back up making it...well pretty much useless, what do you guys think? This audio stuff is fun but man there is a lot of info Guess I should have been installing systems in my car back in high school instead of chasing women LOL


Chad
Chad-

Each amp has its own fuses, to protect the amps. You DO NOT need fuses between the distribution block and the amps. Adding extra fuses between the distribution blocks and amps only adds more individual electrical connections, increasing the chance of failed contacts, corrosion, and other problems associated with open metal-on-metal connections in a marine environment.

You DO need a fuse or a curcuit breaker on your primary power wire between your battery and your distribution blocks, right next to the battery, equal to the sum of the fuse values recommended in the amplifier's owners manuals.
The ZX700.5 has 90 amps of fuses, and the ZZX550.2 has 70 amps of fuses, so you want AT LEAST 160 amps of over-current protection right at the battery on the primary power lead going to the amp distribution blocks. A 200 amp fuse or circuit breaker will do the job, and is safe, as Coast Guard law for new boat production allows overcurrent protection up to 1.5 times the max current draw of the electrical components on the circuit. Coast Guard law also mandates that the fuse or circuit breaker have no more than 7" of wire between the battery and the fuse or breaker. For your own use, you can go further; sometimes it is impossible to really get the fuse or breaker that close to the battery, but try to be within a foot or so... The reason for providing a fuse right at the battery is to prevent an accidental short circuit of your primary power wire, resulting in a very hot hunk of copper, burning insulation and a fire or explosion on your boat.
So starting at the battery positive terminal: You have a short piece of LARGE wire, (I recomment 2 ga or 1/0 ga, NOT 4 ga as you suggested), then a fuse holder with a 200A fuse, (or a circuit breaker if you can find one that big) then you have another LARGE wire, (2 ga or 1/0 ga) going to the positive distribution block near the amps. From the positive distribution block you have 4 ga wires going to each amp.

For the negative side of the equation, us a similarly large ground wire going from the battery to a distribution block, and then 4 ga wires to the ground terminals of both amps. No fuses needed on the ground side...



There are lots of theories on capacitors, and very few facts. Some people use them with good results; I will tell you those folks probably have inadequate charging systems and insufficient amounts of copper between their batteris and their amps. The caps cover up the voltage sag that shows up as a result of poor system design like a band-aid covers up a cold sore.
Proper systems, with alternators, batteries and wiring sized properly for the system do not need caps.


I have attached a very crude schematic showing my preferred wiring method for a dual amplifier setup. It shows the relatve locations of the big fuse, the distribution blocks, and the amps. In this schematic I also show a wiring scheme that moves the radio's power out of the dash wiring, (noisy) and onto the amplifier power wiring, (lots quieter). The relay shown takes advantage of the boats accessory ignition switch position, (like in an older car, where you turn the key backwards). If you have a dash rocker switch for your stereo, you can use it instead of the relay. I have attached that pic, even though it only shows a single amp.

Anyway, if you have further questions, let us know. good luck and have fun!

Phil
Kicker

[Moomba Dad]

Yes, I understand is was in the boat originally, but was it protection and why is it now extra? I ask, because I do not read that an old amp was removed. My concern is that some circuit is now unprotected.

The max amperage your amps should ever pull cumulatively, is 160W based on their onboard fusing or the manufacture's spec. Its never safe, not needed, to fuse above that potential load. 200A is about 30% over rated. Now, the real problem is the focus put on circuit protection capacity, but can the cable support a 200A breaker? If not, then cable becomes the weak link and if there is a short, becomes a hot flaming molten rope of death, long before that 200W breaker might trip.

I would suggest a trunk/branch setup over individual amp supply runs. And I do not suggest automotive amp install kits. They rarely work well for boats. Buy the incidentals a-la-carte in the proper lengths and amp ratings for fuses or breakers.

MLA,

The 50 amp that I was referring to is a circuit breaker. The boat originally did NOT have an amplifier.

Sorry for the confusion.

For the record-I will be using this circuit breaker and connecting it to terminal No. 1 of my Perko battery switch which if for the boat (not the sound system).

[MLA]

LOL, Phil is the last guy id ever say is wrong. If he posts, it correct. But, I have no worries about having a different opinion. In reality, I doubt you would ever see your two amps spike above a cumulative 100A draw. This is why is do not see the need to grossly over-fuse. But as stated, equality important, is the cable side paring with the circuit protection value.


The 50 amp that I was referring to is a circuit breaker.

Yes, I completely understand its a fifty amp breaker and that it was mounted in the boat. Again, what was this breaker breaking for? Its a 50A breaker for some circuit, what is that circuit? Was it mounted but not connected?


For the record-I will be using this circuit breaker and connecting it to terminal No. 1 of my Perko battery switch which if for the boat

FYI, this circumvents the switch.

[Stazi]

MLA I think that’s the standard 50A breaker that then feed the factory distribution block and fuses under the helm. It doesn’t even need to be messed with in this situation as all the main power demands for the running of the boat stay as they are and run on the main battery and then the additional new battery should just be for the stereo components.


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[MLA]

MLA I think that’s the standard 50A breaker that then feed the factory distribution block and fuses under the helm. It doesn’t even need to be messed with in this situation as all the main power demands for the running of the boat stay as they are and run on the main battery and then the additional new battery should just be for the stereo components.


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Thats why im trying to figure how its now an extra.

[Moomba Dad]

MLA I think that’s the standard 50A breaker that then feed the factory distribution block and fuses under the helm. It doesn’t even need to be messed with in this situation as all the main power demands for the running of the boat stay as they are and run on the main battery and then the additional new battery should just be for the stereo components.


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Correct, it came with the boat and does feed the factory distribution block.

Thank you.

[Stazi]

Ok. You should NOT even be messing with that entire circuit.

All your stereo stuff needs to be on your second battery. So each amp has it’s on +ve feed and fuse. And then the -ve from each amp also needs to go back to that second battery.

If you bought a Battery Doctor like I recommend then it will tie in the secondary d battery to the charging system.

WirthCo 20092 Battery Doctor 125 Amp/150 Amp Battery Isolator https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0058SGDFK/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_a.0gDb49B982Z

You don’t need any other Perko switches or extra BS with the Battery Doctor. Takes all the guess work
Out of switching between batteries

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190702/38a75ac1b4013c9e78acdecd2e944480.jpg


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[Moomba Dad]

Stazi,

I purchased a Perko switch. The original battery has a 50 amp circuit breaker attached to the positive terminal of the original battery along with the positive wire that feeds the boat power. So now that I'm connecting the positive wire from the boat to the Perko switch (instead of the direct to the battery) I think I need to do the same with the 50 amp circuit breaker wire. If I connect it direct to the battery then I would be by passing the Perko switch which I don't think is a good idea. (I believe it's similar to the fused terminal your diagram shows between the battery and the battery doctor.)

Do you agree?

[MLA]

All your stereo stuff needs to be on your second battery

Not with a dual bank battery switch in the scheme.

[Moomba Dad]

Not with a dual bank battery switch in the scheme.

Ok, now I'm really confused. Please elaborate.

Right now I was planning on having all stereo equipment connected to the second battery. Come to think of it, I think I'll have to disconnect my existing stereo head from the original battery and power it from the second battery.

[Stazi]

Perko switch changes what I said. The wire coming out of the existing breaker needs to b wired into the battery one position and the battery 2 potision will be connected to your new auxiliary battery for your stereo.

Maybe MLA has a wiring diagram for that.

I have never liked the Perko switches. Too much BS around switching them to “right” setting which is another debate all on its own.


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[Moomba Dad]

Stazi,

Thank you for all of your help. Sorry if I caused any confusion. Your previous post confirms how I intend to wire it. I purchased the Perko because it seems to be very popular, and my cost for this "little" project is spiraling out control. LOL.

[MLA]

Ok, now I'm really confused. Please elaborate.

Right now I was planning on having all stereo equipment connected to the second battery. Come to think of it, I think I'll have to disconnect my existing stereo head from the original battery and power it from the second battery.

The wiring and operation of a 1/2/BOTH switch is simple, just takes a little discipline when on the water.

The switch has a common output. Every load, except the auto-bilge, gets wired through the common output. Switch off means BOAT IS OFF. Nothing left with voltage to it.

Anything wired to the 1 or 2 position is electrically the same as wiring direct to the battery post, and circumvents the switch. This is what complicates the use of the switch IMO.