Supra SG/SE vs Moomba Max

[andrewd]

Hi everyone: New to the forum.

So my wife and I are looking at switching out of our 2011 VLX.
We are 50 this year, so wakeboarding for us now is around the 16 mph range to keep the potential injuries down (we are intermediate level). The VLX produces a great wake down at that speed, however while she surf's.. we've outgrown it.

So I've narrowed the search down to a Supra SG/SE (2015 driven by $$) or the 2019 Moomba Max.

We wet tested a used 15 SG450 yesterday with stock ballast but it wasn't dialed in for surfing or wake boarding.
The 2019 Max we wet tested (yesterday as well) had all the newest goodies (autowake/G6/Swell 2.0) and also round two surfing included additional 1,000 ballast or so (round 1 just stock 3K ballast).

So here's the dilemma folks and hoping I can get some honest undistorted feedback, please.

We're 50 here folks so I really don't want to go over around $90K for the boat (before taxes).
Time and ease of use are also priorities when now out on the water.. work is hard enough.. play should be as little frustrating as possible.
Everything I've read or seen online is that the 15 SG/SE's are great wakeboarding and surfing..
Unfortunately not experiencing that yesterday during the wet test (in the water with surf and wakeboards) puts a sliver of doubt in our minds especially when dropping this kind of coin.

The Max however just flat out ripped. Wakeboarding down at 16 was clean (even in less then perfect conditions) and the surfing was great (stock and extra Plug/Play)!
However the Max.. well she ain't the prettiest girl in the world. Its kinda hard moving back down from the top tier boats to the value line boats once you enjoyed all the things of the top tier ownership.

And this is the 100 million dollar question for us:
Risk going with older surf system's with some learning curve for dialing in the boat (assuming she can produce the goods - plan to upgrade rear ballast on the SG/SE to the 1,320 lb bags if we do this boat route) but have the top tier boat experience again.
Or go with the latest tech, ease of use, amazing value for the performance of the max?

It would be an easier decision if we had experienced a better wet test of a dialed in SG/SE but that didn't happen.
Can the first gen SE/SG put up the goods wakeboarding down at 16 mph and surf amazing?
Right now its really hard not to go with the proven yet not the prettiest girl of the max especially considering price/warranty/autowake/G6.
We both were really impressed with the Max.. that boat is an enigma in my opinion.
We both want however to like the SG/SE all things considered.. but performance is questionable.. especially considering the Max for substantially less money.
This is a really hard decision.

thanks again.
Andrew

[sandm]

Time and ease of use are also priorities when now out on the water.. work is hard enough.. play should be as little frustrating as possible.

Or go with the latest tech, ease of use, amazing value for the performance of the max?


I think you kind of answered your own question :)

max will get you a warranty that should anything go wrong it's fixed and no worries.
do understand the need for a wake at 16mph. that can be a tough find(and primary reason my cousin bought 2 'bu's for the boarding wake for the kiddo's-although current model quality has him looking elsewhere). if you saw a wake you like out of the max at 16 and knowing it'll surf that's where I would lean my $$ especially if the supra demo was not what you are looking for.

good luck either way and post pics once you seal the deal.

[andrewd]

Another question: It appears the max is about 12' top of tower up.
Anyone know yet of a cover with tower down like the new supra's?
Thinking I may give evolution covers a ring on Monday and see what he can do if there isn't anything available.

[sandm]

good luck on the "national" company route if one's not offered. I tried evolution and another big name in the midwest and both offered covers tower up but neither had templates for tower down and didn't want to make one. ended up using a local company and nice thing was dropping the boat off and talking through exactly what I wanted.
was somewhat pricey at $1600 but it's all sunbrella, protects boat from bow to over the swimplatform and down to the wheels on each side and local warranty for life.
once on you cannot see any hull unless your down on the ground. perfect for the summer sun.

[MJHSupra]

Where did you ride a SG - at a Dealer?

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[MJHSupra]

The 2015 SG had 3200k of are ballast and Swell 1.0. Most 15s, SGs or SEs have upgraded ballast systems if they are on the market now. Should have been able to show you something. A 15 should not be close to $90k.

2015 to 2019 had a lot of improvements. That was the start of improved surf systems each year.

Sounds like you liked what that Moomba was dealing.

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[andrewd]

Not at a Supra specific dealer. They were honest and a malibu dealer. We were rushed a bit on schedule and they not being Supra specific.. I don't think it was a great combination. Hence my question: I really want to know.. can the 15's deliver a nice clean wakeboard wake at 16 mph or at least 17?

The surfing was ok, better than our VLX but nothing that said OMG. That's not the information I've seen all over the web. They are supposed to be kick butt. So again I think it just wasn't dialed in. It was only stock ballast.

[andrewd]

What I am hoping is the 15's are good enough and from what I've digested over time.. its really incremental not revolutionary between Swell 1 thru 3.
So if Swell 1 is 90% of Swell 3 version in capabilities and clean wake.. that's good enough.
But she wasn't that impressive on that outing. I am hoping it was just not dialed in.

The max however kicked butt... what was most impressive was set and forget mentality.. mild chop and wind and wake boarding was pretty darn clean at 16. I was impressed. Surfing with stock ballast and 10'ish mph, great. Got better with a couple 500 lb'ish bags under midship seating.. She's an impressive albiet bland package.

We want the supra.. I suspect for the price we may end up with a max. What I'd really like is a SE/SG with Autowake but she gets pricey pretty darn quick going from 15 to 16 to 17's.

[KnoxMojo]

The SG will get there, they didn't know how to set it up. Just curious, if looking at a 19 Max, that's at a dealer? Did you look at the Craz Pro or Mojo. They have quite a bit more in the creature comfort category. Who told you Swell 1.0 was about 90% of Swell 3.0? The demo dealer? Swell 3 is way ahead of where Swell 1 was at, not even a close comparison. Its more than just the plates. For the money you're willing to spend, you could also be looking at lightly used Supra SA and SR with transferable warranty. Where are you demoing boats?

[MJHSupra]

Not at a Supra specific dealer. Hence my question: I really want to know.. can the 15's deliver a nice clean wakeboard wake at 16 mph or at least 17?

If you are wakeboarding at 17mph w/o ballast, you will find better Supars results from the smaller hulls - SA or SR/SC. The SG is about the same as the SA, but I have not been on one at low speeds (<20+). I agree with KnoxMojo and also looking at the Mojo or Craz.

[Prospersigman]

Seems the comparison is a little off...SG/SE compared to a Max. If you want a Supra you could easliy find a 2016-2017 SA that would be under $90k.

Here is a quick example:
https://www.onlyinboards.com/2016-SUPRA-SA-450-WORLDS-for-sale-NEW-LENOX-Illinois-96280.aspx

[KnoxMojo]

If you are wakeboarding at 17mph w/o ballast, you will find better Supars results from the smaller hulls - SA or SR/SC. The SG is about the same as the SA, but I have not been on one at low speeds (<20+). I agree with KnoxMojo and also looking at the Mojo or Craz.

Actually, the SG is almost a foot longer than the SA.

[Prospersigman]

Yes, but the Max and SA are identical.

[KnoxMojo]

Yes, but the Max and SA are identical.

Close, SA is 2" longer. And the hulls are nowhere near identical.

[larry_arizona]

Close, SA is 2" longer. And the hulls are nowhere near identical.

And the SA is 950# heavier


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[Prospersigman]

Never said the hulls were identical. And 2" overall length is pretty close...but since you want to argue this morning we can go back and forth.

The OP narrowed his search down to SE/SG and a Max. My point was the SA is a closer comparison size wise to the Max and could easily be found under his $90k cap. You and I have both owned Moombas and Supras...I prefer the Supras over the Moombas not only the wave but the creature comforts and technology. If I were in the OP's shoes I buy a 2017 SA over a 2019 Max...my 2 cents worth.

[larry_arizona]

Agree, used SA over a new max.


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[KnoxMojo]

Never said the hulls were identical. And 2" overall length is pretty close...but since you want to argue this morning we can go back and forth.

The OP narrowed his search down to SE/SG and a Max. My point was the SA is a closer comparison size wise to the Max and could easily be found under his $90k cap. You and I have both owned Moombas and Supras...I prefer the Supras over the Moombas not only the wave but the creature comforts and technology. If I were in the OP's shoes I buy a 2017 SA over a 2019 Max...my 2 cents worth.

I'm not arguing at all my dude... just didn't want the OP to think the SA and Max were the same with different features.... and 100% yes, I'd look for a lightly used SA for that money. We're on the same page.

[andrewd]

I'm not arguing at all my dude... just didn't want the OP to think the SA and Max were the same with different features.... and 100% yes, I'd look for a lightly used SA for that money. We're on the same page.


Really what this comes down to for us is:

Option 1: top tier supra boat that surfs great and wakeboards well down around the 16 or 17 mph range.
I would like to keep it under $90K before taxes for a top tier boat.
From my market research that points to a Swell V1 SG or SE, maybe a 2016 Swell V2 in these boats if I am lucky (keeping any of these boats down around <160 hrs).
I wasn't really hot on the 2016+ SA because for that money why not go with a SE or and SG?
I like the room behind the windshield more than trading off for more bow room in the SA.
Does an SA really wakeboard better? If so, am I trading off some surf potential compared to the SG/SE?

Option 2: The mad max. This takes me to near state of the art autowake/G6/Swell 2 in the mid 70's new.
From Saturday's wet test she wake boarded great down at 16 mph in less then perfect conditions.
Surfing was as good or better than the 2015 SG that we just wet tested a couple hours before.
However as I mentioned that SG was not dialed in and only had stock ballast amounts.

So really Option 1 is the gorgeous 60's muscle car that depends on driver knowledge to tweak the boats inputs for changing conditions.
However I just don't know if Option 1 really surfs that much better than a Max or can it wake board clean down at 16 or 17 mph.
If she can't wakeboard down at that speed, then that solves that.
I do suspect there was performance left on the table for surfing that we didn't experience.. I only truly know what I experienced that day.

Although I think we have pretty much decided on the Max.
She's not a looker.. but performance was great, she's new, she's easy to live with on the water with autowake/etc.
And the price is right.

However we do still have a sweet spot for an SE/SG or maybe an SA.
But its really hard to go back to a boat that doesn't have autowake etc after you've had a great positive experience with that.

The SG, the wife was doing the classic point down and clean up the drivers side wake..(just like she does on the VLX depending on conditions).
The Max.. nadda.. drama free. I think this might just be the selling features for us.. ease of use this time and repeatability.

Hope this all makes sense to everyone.

We'll probably end up getting a Mad Max as a stop gap until the 2018+ Supra SL's or something of that nature come down to a reasonable price in a 3 or 4 years.

Time will tell

I was just hoping for some input from more experienced Supra ownership before we make our final decision. Its a lot of money to make a mistake on.

[larry_arizona]

Moomba Flow and Supra Swell systems are different.


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[MJHSupra]

Have you been on a SE at 17mph? I'm not sure that big of a boat would have a clean wake.

[trayson]

That's good to know that the Max puts out a clean wake at that low of speed. I demo'd the max at normal 21mph and it had a wake that shot me into a different zipcode. I had to drain down ballast and it was still meaty and big. definitely the real deal. I enjoy an intermediate wake, I typically ride my XLV at only 1180 front ballast.

I'll probably end up with a Max eventually as my next boat. A lot of the "creature comforts" that are most valuvable (stereo, LED's, racks, etc) are things that can all be added to any boat, so I don't stress too much on those. Sure, I was on a new Supra this weekend and I was loving the tower/stern cameras on the big display. But it wasn't a MUST HAVE.

[andrewd]

Have you been on a SE at 17mph? I'm not sure that big of a boat would have a clean wake.

I have not! Good point we are moving up from a 21'6" boat of the 2011 VLX to 22 - 24 ft boats.
Didn't think of that! Maybe the sweet spot is indeed 22-23 ft??

Really surfing performance is the reason we are moving up from the VLX.
She's great at 16mph wakeboarding generally.
We can no where near use its wakeboarding potential at 50 years old to be honest if we dialed that wakeboard wake up with more speed.
Sure we jump a little.. but if we yard sale it... it takes a few days to recover now-a-days.

But we have outgrown its surfing potential without plumbing in plug and play bags (we have some but she hates manual filling them and so do I).
We also have a manual surf gate and while it works great.. we are wanting to move beyond that as well.

So that's where she's at.

Without good wakeboarding at that speed (17 is fine).. the boat is a clear cut no go regardless of its surfing performance.
Once we meet that threshold then its surfing performance as obviously from above explanation, its really the major reason why we are moving away from the VLX.

other than now autowake potentially... dang it.. its like heated seats.. once you have it... its hard to go back...

[padge]

If you need small size, I’d look at a newer sr. Awesome boat


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[andrewd]

Moomba Flow and Supra Swell systems are different.


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I think I understand most of the major differences.. however really we are not nor will we ever be top tier athletes especially at our age.
So it has become now more of what is the experience behind the boat and the rest really doesn't matter how its accomplished.

[andrewd]

If you need small size, I’d look at a newer sr. Awesome boat


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I'd like something larger than the VLX this time around if possible. 22+ would be nice.
Most days its plenty big.
Its just those few days a year it would be nice to have some more room on the boat.

[padge]

Go with a used sa in my opinion. The new moomba will be nice, but will depreciate the most being new and moomba. A used 16 or 17 sa can be had around 90 and below I’d say


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[trayson]

other than now autowake potentially... dang it.. its like heated seats.. once you have it... its hard to go back...

I hear ya on the car analogy. I am now hooked on heated seats, heated steering wheel, power liftgate, proximity key, auto headlights, auto wipers... <3

[andrewd]

Go with a used sa in my opinion. The new moomba will be nice, but will depreciate the most being new and moomba. A used 16 or 17 sa can be had around 90 and below I’d say


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Clean wake at 16 or 17?

[MJHSupra]

If you look at the 17s and like the space of the SG, those have Autowake, gen 1. But they are harder to find because they did not make that many.

SE and SA are more popular. SE was designed in 2019, SA will be on 2020. Lots of deals if you look around.

Where is your location?


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[andrewd]

If you look at the 17s and like the space of the SG, those have Autowake, gen 1. But they are harder to find because they did not make that many.

SE and SA are more popular. SE was designed in 2019, SA will be on 2020. Lots of deals if you look around.

Where is your location?


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Seattle/Olympia area.

It would be great if we could get a 17 SA... that's of course if she meets the wake board needs & $.
Compared to SG/SE surfing.. 16+ SA... blindfolded.. would I know the difference if set up apples to apples?
I am finding that once you inch up to 50 years old.. its not a matter of can you pay for it.. its do you want to pay that much and potentially work longer.

[padge]

All will surf great. Sg/Se are bigger, take more ballast to achieve same size wave. But have more room. All on what you want. I personally have a 2018 Se and have 800 pounds of lead, and I love the boat. The more room the better for me


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[andrewd]

All will surf great. Sg/Se are bigger, take more ballast to achieve same size wave. But have more room. All on what you want. I personally have a 2018 Se and have 800 pounds of lead, and I love the boat. The more room the better for me


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Ok thanks! So surfing on SA sounds like its a go!

Just need to understand wakeboarding at slower speeds... then I'll know if I have a potential option to the Mad Max.

The Max did it at 16 and and was impressive at that in the conditions it was in.

thanks again everyone so far.

Right now, I am thinking if we consider an SA we'd be looking for a 17 model year for autowake.

[sandm]

watch what years of SA you look at and water test them. some feedback that the early hull didn't surf that well and difference is night and day on the newer models.
iirc '16 was the changeover.

[KnoxMojo]

Yeah, 16 SA and up.. if you can find a 17 or 18, that's the sweet spot. I know several low hour 18s have sold for low 90s... but you can't go wrong with a brand new 19 Max and some upgraded ballast.

[Kirby]

I was in a similar situation as you for a year, realized at my age (inching closer to 50) it was time to surf. I played online looking at used Supra's but in the end I wanted to build the Max to my specifications and pick out the colors, plus warranty. It's a beautiful boat and we couldn't be happier. We bought ours at NWInboards and have been treated like royalty. Good, honest, patient people, as well as Bakes Marine.

[trayson]

Ya'all make it sound like 50 is the death of aggressive wakeboarding. I'm 47 this year and I have no intention of stopping. I never learned to do inverts, but I still love to huck me a big air into the flats with a nice grab...

[Shoebox]

Ya'all make it sound like 50 is the death of aggressive wakeboarding. I'm 47 this year and I have no intention of stopping. I never learned to do inverts, but I still love to huck me a big air into the flats with a nice grab...It is when you have double shoulder surgeries for torn labrum - from wakeboarding and slaloming crashes.

[trayson]

It is when you have double shoulder surgeries for torn labrum - from wakeboarding and slaloming crashes.

Don't get me wrong. I have medial epicondylitis and trouble with my wrists. And wear a brace to protect my ACL after a snowboarding injury... But I still love to fly... I just hope I don't have only 3 years left!!!

[sandm]

left wisconsin at 48 2 years ago and left my wakeboard at the local goodwill. never to be strapped on again...
I have not had torn acl's or shoulders or wrists BUT don't plan on having them. surfing is so much easier on the body and don't have to fight with insurance companies and doctors if I crash wrong :)

tray- you have as much time left as you want but the odds of landing in a escorted ride to visit a person in scrubs increase with each candle added to the cake.

[MJHSupra]

Anyone have pics for a new SA for wakeboarding speeds of 17mph for kids?

[andrewd]

Anyone have pics for a new SA for wakeboarding speeds of 17mph for kids?

+ that.

+ 17 SE?? Can autowake help on the beast at that speed?

[padge]

I was thinking my boat with zero ballast will clean up around 20. 18 SE


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[Kirby]

I'm 47 too, but I was never any good at wakeboarding, of course I didn't have a wakeboat either. I'll still strap in from time to time. But sucking at surfing looks a lot easier than sucking at boarding.

[andrewd]

Anyone have pics for a new SA for wakeboarding speeds of 17mph for kids?

I read one thread on another site that says the SA can do a clean wake at this speed.
Anyone with an SA out there?

[larry_arizona]

Next time I go out in the SA, I will try 17mph wakeboard and get video or pics.


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[andrewd]

Next time I go out in the SA, I will try 17mph wakeboard and get video or pics.


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You da'man. I really appreciate that. Let me know your settings etc. Thank you for your kindness and your time.

[larry_arizona]

Looking like weather will be good Monday.

Trying to think about it, figure starting at no ballast and try to even weight side to side.

Add wake plate to clean it up.

I don’t think Supra has a preset that slow


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[andrewd]

Looking like weather will be good Monday.

Trying to think about it, figure starting at no ballast and try to even weight side to side.

Add wake plate to clean it up.

I don’t think Supra has a preset that slow


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I suspect that's the ticket.
I suspect zero ballast, 100% wake plate and see what she does.
maybe add some bow ballast if needed.
you might have to walk the speed up until she cleans up.
But that's all speculation since I still have a VLX.

When we tried the 15 SG last weekend, definitely needed 100% wake plate.. but we were rushed and I wasn't driving so I truly can't tell you if we had a good setup on the SG when we tried. But it did appear to clean up around 18.. but this isn't a trustworthy statement due to the situation and chaos of the wet test.

Hence my appeal to you all for a little help so I don't screw up this major purchase. The VLX's clean wake limit is around 16 depending on water conditions. So the wife is used to that ability. So I am just trying to get her close. If we can hit 17 or so... that's what I need to educate her on before we do this next transaction.

Thank you again kind sir for taking some time out of your valuable time off on the long weekend for us.

Andrew

[padge]

Or you could just tell her it was 16mph lol. Would she really be able to tell 1 mph?


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[BigOrange]

I read the last few days comments in the thread about wakeboarding speed, and am just very curious if many adults really ride below 20 mph? I know the ideal speed mentioned by many is 21-22, but at 210 lbs, I ride a 145 cm board and feel that the water just feels soft and squishy at anything less than high 22's. I ride at 23 up to 23.2 or so. I'm maybe just too fat, but I can't fathom any real boarding at 17 or 18 mph. I may have some serious flaws in technique if you all are really able to make cuts and get any air at those slower speeds? Maybe most everyone is just more fit at say 165 lbs?

[andrewd]

Or you could just tell her it was 16mph lol. Would she really be able to tell 1 mph?


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When you're 50 and if she gets injured and finds out you miss-represented the speed.. not a good plan...

In reality its not my choice to raise the speeds, its her body at risk.

All that being said.. no I've ran both speeds and I can't perceive a difference. But see above.

A happy wife is a happy life...

[padge]

True that!


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[andrewd]

I read the last few days comments in the thread about wakeboarding speed, and am just very curious if many adults really ride below 20 mph? I know the ideal speed mentioned by many is 21-22, but at 210 lbs, I ride a 145 cm board and feel that the water just feels soft and squishy at anything less than high 22's. I ride at 23 up to 23.2 or so. I'm maybe just too fat, but I can't fathom any real boarding at 17 or 18 mph. I may have some serious flaws in technique if you all are really able to make cuts and get any air at those slower speeds? Maybe most everyone is just more fit at say 165 lbs?

I am 190 +/-. Yes I can get air and almost clear the wakes at 65 ft on the rope.
Is it soft and squishy?? I don't know.. I don't run your speeds.
Sure I'd like to pick up the pace.. but this is only our 3rd season and I've caught the front edge before and did the face plant..
Even with USCG life jacket.. I felt that in the chest for two days... neck didn't like it either.

So in reality for wakeboarding for us: its really about going out and doing it but not taking too many risks that our bodies can't cash in on.
so we live with what we feel comfortable with and feel grateful for what we have.
4 years ago I didn't even think it was possible for me to wakeboard since I never owned a wakeboard boat before.
So I guess its all situational.

[jcredible]

Its all perspective guys...the key is to have fun...whether it be at 16/17/22/23. I am only 38 and gave up wakeboarding after 2 knee surgeries! I live another day and can surf 7 days in a row if all I do is surf!

[KnoxMojo]

Yes I can get air and almost clear the wakes at 65 ft on the rope.




Just a suggestion, if you are intent on riding that slow, you both need bigger boards for more surface area and also shorten to rope to 55, at most 60, until you can comfortably to wake to wake without taking those tough diggers. Casing the wake is all about technique and using your legs an like shock absorbers.

[trayson]

I read the last few days comments in the thread about wakeboarding speed, and am just very curious if many adults really ride below 20 mph? I know the ideal speed mentioned by many is 21-22, but at 210 lbs, I ride a 145 cm board and feel that the water just feels soft and squishy at anything less than high 22's. I ride at 23 up to 23.2 or so. I'm maybe just too fat, but I can't fathom any real boarding at 17 or 18 mph. I may have some serious flaws in technique if you all are really able to make cuts and get any air at those slower speeds? Maybe most everyone is just more fit at say 165 lbs?

I'm not even that great at wakeboarding and I ride at 21 simply because that's what I have to do to get a cleaner wake on my XLV. But I'm pretty confident I could get plenty of air (especially on a clean wake) at 17. I haven't really tried because the last time I rode at that speed was with my kid when he was 10. But if I have extra time, I'd be willing to give it a shot. I'd bet I could cut just as hard at 17mph as I could at 21mph. I know to teach inverts, my coaching friend slows the boat way down to give riders more time to figure out their tricks...

[Broke Pilot]

Dunno how I missed all this thread... the 17 SA will most definitely throw a clean wakeboard wave from about 15mph and up. Just takes a little front ballast and the wake plate. My 11 year old daughter wakeboards around 17. I’m trying to find pics but my phone is usually for music. I’ll have to get some from the wife.
As far as surfing goes, SA is hard to beat to get a ridiculous wave without needing the ballast an SL or SE does.
Plus, the upside to the newer supras no one mentioned is the 102” beam. Yes you have that massive bow, but the SA is more like a 23-24’ boat on the inside. Get on one, you’ll never believe it’s only 22’8”. I’ve had 10 adults on it surfing, no one was cramped.
I have no experience with the SG/SC series, but you won’t be disappointed in the SA. I’m also slightly biased. Lol... but it will do everything you’ve asked plus give you all the creature comforts you want for about the price you want. And they’re still new enough to keep the warranty.

[andrewd]

Dunno how I missed all this thread... the 17 SA will most definitely throw a clean wakeboard wave from about 15mph and up. Just takes a little front ballast and the wake plate. My 11 year old daughter wakeboards around 17. I’m trying to find pics but my phone is usually for music. I’ll have to get some from the wife.
As far as surfing goes, SA is hard to beat to get a ridiculous wave without needing the ballast an SL or SE does.
Plus, the upside to the newer supras no one mentioned is the 102” beam. Yes you have that massive bow, but the SA is more like a 23-24’ boat on the inside. Get on one, you’ll never believe it’s only 22’8”. I’ve had 10 adults on it surfing, no one was cramped.
I have no experience with the SG/SC series, but you won’t be disappointed in the SA. I’m also slightly biased. Lol... but it will do everything you’ve asked plus give you all the creature comforts you want for about the price you want. And they’re still new enough to keep the warranty.

Sweet! Thanks that's what I was hoping.
Now we just have to decide.. wait for a reasonably priced 17 SA near us with decent colors OR order a new 2020 Max.

[larry_arizona]

Sweet! Thanks that's what I was hoping.
Now we just have to decide.. wait for a reasonably priced 17 SA near us with decent colors OR order a new 2020 Max.

Used SA>new Max


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[haknslash]

This was at 18.3 mph yesterday on our Max. 4 adults, 1 9 year old. I think our settings were 100% wake plate and about 45% bow ballast to help with the chop. We don't wakeboard but this thread popped into my head while driving yesterday. Figured I'd share what mine looked like for anyone wondering.

http://i.imgur.com/ipL8SlF.jpg

[larry_arizona]

SA 17.0mph, no ballast 50% wake plate.

I know I could clean this up if I spent some time with it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190527/16bb518d55d3c85ad40481e9b8543ecb.jpg


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[Broke Pilot]

30ish% front ballast really helps at the lower speed.
Love that Black and Tan interior btw...

[padge]

800 pounds of lead and no water ballast, 18 SE cleans up around 18.5-19mph


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[andrewd]

800 pounds of lead and no water ballast, 18 SE cleans up around 18.5-19mph


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Ok, thank you! That tells me the big girls are probably out. I appreciate your efforts kind sir.

[andrewd]

30ish% front ballast really helps at the lower speed.


Still on the radar for a test pic for me?
Right now the only thing I know for sure is the Max will do it.

Thanks again!

[padge]

I’m not a pro at dialing in wakeboard wakes. But that was plate at 50.


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[andrewd]

SA 17.0mph, no ballast 50% wake plate.

I know I could clean this up if I spent some time with it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190527/16bb518d55d3c85ad40481e9b8543ecb.jpg


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Close but no cookie... she'll be pointing down at the drivers wake like that in essence telling me to fix that..
Thanks for taking time out for us on that pic!

[andrewd]

This was at 18.3 mph yesterday on our Max. 4 adults, 1 9 year old. I think our settings were 100% wake plate and about 45% bow ballast to help with the chop. We don't wakeboard but this thread popped into my head while driving yesterday. Figured I'd share what mine looked like for anyone wondering.

http://i.imgur.com/ipL8SlF.jpg

that's what I've seen with the Max even down to 16. She's really clean down at that speed just like our VLX. The hull is pretty impressive on that boat.
My wife and I just wished we had some more options at the factory etc to spruce it up some more..
To me when you look at the available options, fit and finish etc.. it really reminds me of the original Volkswagen Bug or the Model T.
They are really keeping the costs down and there's no doubt she performs.. but she's a little spartan for our tastes.. at least at this moment until the SA is proven down at those speeds.
We are pretty sold on Autowake at this point.

Thanks again for your time!

[andrewd]

I’m not a pro at dialing in wakeboard wakes. But that was plate at 50.


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Ahh... 100% on the wake plate might have dialed'er down some more.

[andrewd]

I know I've said this to each of you this morning in my replies above.

But thanks to everyone in general for your time and efforts during your time off on your boats with family for some stranger on here.

It's a big transaction and I fear making a mistake since these boats around the Seattle area aren't that high in numbers like Malibu's.

On the positive for the site, it is good documentation for future folks as well.

[larry_arizona]

Skiers Choice as a total makes a fraction of what Malibu does. Personally that was a big reason I chose SC.


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[MJHSupra]

I know I've said this to each of you this morning in my replies above.

But thanks to everyone in general for your time and efforts during your time off on your boats with family for some stranger on here.

It's a big transaction and I fear making a mistake since these boats around the Seattle area aren't that high in numbers like Malibu's.

On the positive for the site, it is good documentation for future folks as well.

I do not live in that area, but from a nationwide perspective, you are correct. You will probably see more BU and MCs on most lakes. Public vs Private companies.

The bigger question is not the amount of boats, but how the dealer will treat you. If you are looking new, I would ask someone who purchased a boat in the past year. How was the Dealer Service? Responsiveness? Speed to get something addressed? Knowledge of the issue?

Either way, SC or BU, if you are not impressed by the dealer, why buy from them?

With either boat, you will hit an issue sooner or later, so the question is, how happy will you be with the service to get you back on the water in the summer.

Good luck with either boat.

[haknslash]

+1 I think the dealer support is what can make or break a boat no matter the manufacturer. Skiers Choice builds around 1,700 total boats a year with a little over 550 of them being a Supra. I never went on a tour at a Malibu plant but I did at Skiers Choice as ours was being built. They don’t cut corners on these boats and the Moomba and Supra boats come down the exact manufacturing line. It’s not until you get to the nicer interior and tower installs down the production line do you really start to see the difference from a Supra to a Moomba. Rather than think of the Max as spartan I like to think of it as utilitarian with some nice additions for 2019 to make it feel a bit nicer on the inside. If you want the higher end luxury appointments and style the Supras are where it’s at.

I test drove an Axis A22 when I was shopping and while it’s not a Malibu, especially on the inside, it did not ride good at all in anything other than glass. It also handled poor with the wedge and surf gate.

My best advice to you is to demo demo demo demo as many boats as you can and really get to know the dealers in the area. These are big time boat toys with big time money and the last thing you want is a nice boat that has a problem with a dealer that’s either hours away or doesn’t really show the kind of support you feel you deserve with a purchase like this and treats you as just a number. I chose SC not because of the amount of same boats on the lake but because of the dealer and small production numbers with high attention to detail in production. If you can I recommend taking a factory tour at these manufacturers and get to know dealers. You’ll feel solid about whatever boat you choose then.

[andrewd]

Thanks everyone. Just need confirmation on the SA at those speeds.

I am pretty much self sufficient. I do all my own maintenance and repairs to date on the Malibu.
So other than potential warranty work, or work beyond my skill set or tool set.. the dealer part of the equation isn't as much of a concern for me.
The good news is, our Supra dealers (both Seattle or Portland area) are good folks so I don't have any concerns there.

We have the Bu up for sale just yesterday and getting calls already as she's a good looking girl.
I'll be sad to see her go, she was a great boat. The lexus of boats.
But I just feel that they are old tech (while amazing and innovative in 2013) and resting on their laurels.. it too bad.

But autowake has me hooked... whatever boat it turns out to be.

[andrewd]

Can anyone help out this weekend on finalizing if the SA can do a clean wake at 17 or less?

Thanks again!

[MJHSupra]

Can anyone help out this weekend on finalizing if the SA can do a clean wake at 17 or less?

Thanks again!

Are you going on a dealer demo ride?

Posts 58 and 62 (pic) have a post about it. They both own that model.


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[Broke Pilot]

I’ll try to remember tomorrow, gonna go do a little surf session with a buddy before the gulf of Conroe gets destroyed this weekend lol

[larry_arizona]

I am going out tonight after work, I will try 30% front ballast @17mph tonight.


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[larry_arizona]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/8122941df601b817515a49370ee69654.jpg
17mph,50%plate,350# front ballast

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/e37eb43ae851067d258f62f852468d18.jpg
17mph,50% plate, 350# front 100# left

The video is better, it can be cleaned up, just not going to spend my whole night tuning it.

SA will do what you need.


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[andrewd]

Cool man, thanks! I really appreciate that!

Andrew

[rdlangston13]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/8122941df601b817515a49370ee69654.jpg
17mph,50%plate,350# front ballast

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190607/e37eb43ae851067d258f62f852468d18.jpg
17mph,50% plate, 350# front 100# left

The video is better, it can be cleaned up, just not going to spend my whole night tuning it.

SA will do what you need.


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Why didn't you try 100% plate?

[larry_arizona]

Why didn't you try 100% plate?

Because I simply edited a known wakeboard preset and that called for 50% plate.

Broke Pilot suggested adding some front ballast which gave a clean starboard side, so I added some port rear ballast which cleaned up the port side but dirtied up the starboard.

Maybe more wake plate would help, but honestly, just trying to help out Andrew.

I will never use a 17mph setting. My son rides at 22-23ish.




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[Broke Pilot]

Sorry, the gulf of Conroe has just been a washing machine last few days. Can’t get anything done with this west wind.

[andrewd]

I am still hanging in here guys and appreciate it! We sold our VLX last friday (two days on the market!) so we have time, we are not rushing on this.
Its a big purchase and not one that occurs yearly for us.. so getting it right is mostly my concern.
I think its probably going to be an SA when we get there, however I just wish a SE or SG could do it as well.
There just seems to be plenty of SE's around..
15 SE's are easier to swallow price wise, but I really have a sneakin suspicion that that smaller wakeplate just ain't going to lift the arse enough to have a hope in h*ll to get the the wake clean enough down at 17. Maybe the 16+ with the larger plate... but it is starting to feel like the sweet spot for a decent all around wakeboat/surf boat is 22ft'ish. little smaller side for more wakeboard focus.. a little larger for more surf focus.. but that's just a feelin.

I guess the last thing I'll throw out there: is Autowake (at least in 2017 version) really worth the chase compared to a 2016? Meaning.. I know when we demo'd the 19 Max it had the G6 ballast pump option and that all "appeared" to be smakin great (I wasn't driving and more focused out the back of the boat). But the 17's don't have the G6 option in the Supra's. So I guess what I am asking here on this point: is it worth the upcharge to upgrade to the 17's over the 16's? I guess I should also ask: is this same question worth asking for surfing vs wakeboarding? Its a really valid point to me. Because if Autowake in the 2017 version really needs the G6 ballast pumps to work great then maybe its not worth the premium and I could look at 2016's. Comments?

[rdlangston13]

So I have a 2017 Mojo with Autowake and I would say it is still a worth while feature even if you do not have G6. We only have G3 and while it may react slower to changes that occur once underway it still does a fantastic job and maybe one this to try and do is just limit changes while under way once it has achieved. I think where autowake truly shines is wakeboarding where you need that perfect ballast port to starboard. It worked well for surfing but my complains that I still ask people to move. She says what good is autowake if you still need people to move, she doesn't quite get the whole you need all the ballast possible and autowake will drain itself if people do not move to achieve its goals.

[wario]

I have a ‘17 SG and absolutely love it. We did a back to back demo with it and the SA and the choice was clear to us which one to go with. I was however lucky enough to have a good friend with an SE so I had an idea of the boats true potential with correct weight. Wakeboard wake is fantastic and the surf wake is ridiculous.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190612/7e859807c32c59d0aa913e8ab3554560.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190612/f37cc205259b22c1fafb034324f9b97a.jpg


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[padge]

I have a ‘17 SG and absolutely love it. We did a back to back demo with it and the SA and the choice was clear to us which one to go with. I was however lucky enough to have a good friend with an SE so I had an idea of the boats true potential with correct weight. Wakeboard wake is fantastic and the surf wake is ridiculous.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190612/7e859807c32c59d0aa913e8ab3554560.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190612/f37cc205259b22c1fafb034324f9b97a.jpg


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Money right there. What setup on surf wave?


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[andrewd]

I have a ‘17 SG and absolutely love it. We did a back to back demo with it and the SA and the choice was clear to us which one to go with. I was however lucky enough to have a good friend with an SE so I had an idea of the boats true potential with correct weight. Wakeboard wake is fantastic and the surf wake is ridiculous.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190612/7e859807c32c59d0aa913e8ab3554560.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190612/f37cc205259b22c1fafb034324f9b97a.jpg


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Can you get me a clean wake at 17?

[wario]

Andrew

I’ll be back down with the boat tomorrow, I’ll get you some lower speed wake pictures. To answer to your question though is yes it will clean up.

Padge

That setup was 900’s in the lockers, 1k in lead midship and 300 in the bow. Swell is 65 regular and 70 goofball. Center is always at 0 for surfing and 50 for skim. We ride anywhere from 10.8 to 12 MPH

[padge]

Andrew

I’ll be back down with the boat tomorrow, I’ll get you some lower speed wake pictures. To answer to your question though is yes it will clean up.

Padge

That setup was 900’s in the lockers, 1k in lead midship and 300 in the bow. Swell is 65 regular and 70 goofball. Center is always at 0 for surfing and 50 for skim. We ride anywhere from 10.8 to 12 MPH

Sweet I have a 18 Se and 800# lead midship. Been running 85 swell, I’ll try 65 and see what happens


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[sandm]

but it is starting to feel like the sweet spot for a decent all around wakeboat/surf boat is 22ft'ish. little smaller side for more wakeboard focus.. a little larger for more surf focus.. but that's just a feelin.


this has been exactly my experience. first boat was a 20ft supra. it surfed OK but when i traded it in, the dealership used it as their shop wakeboard boat for the rest of that season before selling it. they raved on the wake(from a tige dealer who now sells supra). second boat was 22ft and did everything well. boat now is a 23.6 and it surfs great but the couple times i've viewed the boarding wake(granted we don't at all) it's not as good as the 22ft and can't even imagine running a slalom set off the boat as at 35 it's still got a pretty decent hump to get over.

good luck in the hunt.

[andrewd]

All of you have been great! You know at 50 we can't screw up our decisions as much and have time to recover.

So I just want to say thanks to ALL that has pitched in to help Julie and I.

Right now we are boatless... the summer we may go without.. we may get something.. who knows what life brings.

But I know its gotta meet our needs.

Spending this kinda cash now for us anyways isn't a drop in the bucket.

We enjoy it.. its also good to keep up the mobility going into our 50's. But she's a pricey hobby for most folks including us.

So thanks again everyone, I am humbled by all that is pitching in to help a couple strangers on the internet.
Especially when you're out on the water with YOUR family and the limited time you have, to stop for us and check something out... I thank you all.

Andrew

[larry_arizona]

Happy shopping, let’s us know when you find your boat.


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