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NickWray
03-01-2019, 10:54 PM
So my buddy just bought a 2015 Supra SE550 and itís weighted out pretty good, so the surf wave is good...but the tabs look a little small compared to the new boats (even compared to the moombas). My question is has anyone ever upgraded to larger tabs? Whether it be newer factory tabs or home made ones? I searched for this, but didnít see anything. If Iíve overlooked the discussion please point me in the right direction.



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Stazi
03-01-2019, 10:58 PM
Larger tabs will NOT make the wave bigger. You actually want as little tab interaction in the water as possible so as to delay the wake convergence, but NOT start lifting the stern out of the water.

The tabs on the 2015 are fine.

You want a bigger wave - add more weight!!


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MJHSupra
03-01-2019, 11:28 PM
That was first question. How much weight?


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NickWray
03-01-2019, 11:46 PM
That was first question. How much weight?


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It has the enzo bags in the rear plus crew. This might not be enough weight for a SE?


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MJHSupra
03-02-2019, 01:02 PM
With bigger bags, you should have a really good surf wake.

With an addíl 500-750# in the middle of the boat, it probably would be great.

Do you run a big crew?


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MJHSupra
03-02-2019, 01:08 PM
GSA tabs are a different design, so you might get different results. The company probably put a lot of R&D into them.

When I go over the MC forum, those tabs work well on the big, heavy X45.

Have not seen people put them on the SE.


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MJHSupra
03-02-2019, 01:34 PM
Not sure if this relates, I installed Wakeland Tabs on my 2007 Supra ?3-4? years ago.

Then 1-2 years after my install, Moomba came out with a newer surf system and bigger tabs. I was able to retro fit and install them on my Supra.

The owner of the company warned me I might not see that much difference.

Results: they were better, but not that big of a difference. I was not thinking this would happen b/c I excepted easier and more with bigger tabs.

I also found ďless is moreĒ on running the tabs. One would think that you can crank down the one side and get better results. Nope.

Finding the right pitch, roll, and weight (more is always better) was always the secret.

That is why I think Autowake is great and gets you to those magic numbers. My crew size changes a lot, sometimes small, sometimes large, sometime on the middle. So I had to learn to adjust I that manually.

Just my observations . . .


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MJHSupra
03-02-2019, 01:45 PM
Here is the difference. Never mind the discoloring on the orig ones.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190302/c4b2e8ad24a6423a1630f5b9e103980a.jpg


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MJHSupra
03-02-2019, 01:49 PM
There is also a thread on here my Shoebox on Homemade Tabs. Good read. It has some results on smaller vs bigger. Plus there are a version of tabs that were made to look like the GSA design.


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Shoebox
03-02-2019, 02:13 PM
There was not a huge difference in the wave between the GSA-style tabs at 21" long vs shorter, simpler tabs at 15" long.

What blew me away is how little downward deflection was required for the best wave. About 5į down (compared to the bottom of the hull) for both.

dakota4ce
03-02-2019, 03:04 PM
I agree; no there would not be a -huge- difference. The differences would be minor, and would be further back in the wave. The channeling action of GSA Tab will manifest itself further back with more strength. 90% of the wave would be identical. And on that note, 90% of surfers arenít going to notice and/or ride that far back regularly.

For a very discerning 10% of riders, the difference is noticeable.

I think perhaps the biggest benefit to the newer tab system is the fact that the center plate was made to be a lot bigger.


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KnoxMojo
03-02-2019, 03:15 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but part of the magic of Swell 3 on the Supra is they have basically extended the running surface with the tab and mount, thus creating a longer path for the divergence of water. Take a look at Swell 1 and 2 vs 3. That, and the angled are to clean the face up that mimics Moomba Flow 3.0. But as others have said, add weight, either to the surf side and or bow to sink that big hull more.

MJHSupra
03-02-2019, 03:34 PM
Supra is they have basically extended the running surface with the tab and mount, thus creating a longer path for the divergence of water. Take a look at Swell 1 and 2 vs 3. .

Agree with this. SC is not making them longer b/c they are not working.

Those center plates look a lot bigger.



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dakota4ce
03-02-2019, 03:52 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but part of the magic of Swell 3 on the Supra is they have basically extended the running surface with the tab and mount, thus creating a longer path for the divergence of water. Take a look at Swell 1 and 2 vs 3. That, and the angled are to clean the face up that mimics Moomba Flow 3.0. But as others have said, add weight, either to the surf side and or bow to sink that big hull more.

Tab on 2 vs 3 is identical. The angle is the big differentiator. The extended part doesnít deflect; the part that deflects is identical.

That angle creates the yaw that cleans the wave more easily. Size, strength etc; is very similar, but the need to list to clean up goes away.

Unfortunately Flow 3.0 is not quite as efficient as Swell 3.0. I would imagine itís because the yaw-creating-part is not as large and this not as powerful.

Swell 3.0 is the cats ass!


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KnoxMojo
03-02-2019, 04:09 PM
Tab on 2 vs 3 is identical. The angle is the big differentiator. The extended part doesnít deflect; the part that deflects is identical.



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Doing a quick Google image search, the plates and mounts on 2.0 are very different than 3.0. Take a look at a few photos side by side. They have moved the hinge away from the boat in 3.0 and the tab is shaped different. For reference, I was looking at 2017 and 2018.

dakota4ce
03-02-2019, 04:28 PM
Doing a quick Google image search, the plates and mounts on 2.0 are very different than 3.0. Take a look at a few photos side by side. They have moved the hinge away from the boat in 3.0 and the tab is shaped different. For reference, I was looking at 2017 and 2018.

The tab is the same. I have overlaid the 2, live, in person. One small corner is cut down on 3.0 to clear the hull when deployed. The mount plate is the differing part. As you state, the hinge is out and away. In order to give it an angled deployment.

I was 2 seconds from making my 2.0 into 3.0 on my 16. Had real plates at the fabricator shop seeing how hard it would be.


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dakota4ce
03-02-2019, 04:29 PM
Ultimately decided to keep it original instead of making a fake.
Mainly because the upright actuator mount part is quite a bit different.

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KnoxMojo
03-02-2019, 04:30 PM
Right on. I guess there is something to that mount angle as you stated to make it easier to have even weight and a cleaner face. I figured you had look at changing them over on your SE, lol.

dakota4ce
03-02-2019, 04:32 PM
Itís the yaw that the angle creates. Itís the magical ingredient. If you altered Flow 2.0 to mimic swell 3.0 and have an angled mount like that it would do the same thing.


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dakota4ce
03-02-2019, 04:35 PM
By the way it would be a lot easier on a Moomba. Mainly because the actuator mount part is a simple little hull bracket.


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dakota4ce
03-02-2019, 04:36 PM
And for that matter, flow 3.0 is simply a 2.0 system with the corner cut off of the plate and another actuator added. Converting 2.0 to a homemade 3.0 would be super easy. With very light fabrication. And purchasing a couple actuators and switches.

My winter time stressed brain has thought hard about this.


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Shoebox
03-02-2019, 04:42 PM
And for that matter, flow 3.0 is simply a 2.0 system with the corner cut off of the plate and another actuator added. Converting 2.0 to a homemade 3.0 would be super easy. With very light fabrication. And purchasing a couple actuators and switches.

My winter time stressed brain has thought hard about this.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI've been kicking around trying that.

dakota4ce
03-02-2019, 04:52 PM
DO IT!! I spoke a little bit with a guy that has 3.0 on April. He didnít give me a whole lot of feedback leaving me to believe that it is far superior. But even if itís a little bit superior, it would be so easy, and would be worth it.


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Shoebox
03-02-2019, 04:54 PM
Not quite as easy for me, considering how the actuators mount to the tabs. It would actually be easier to make a set that mimics Swell.

TXSurf4
03-02-2019, 11:23 PM
On Flow 3.0 does the actuator push the hinged corner down into the water stream or lift it up the clean the wave up?


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dakota4ce
03-03-2019, 12:34 AM
On Flow 3.0 does the actuator push the hinged corner down into the water stream or lift it up the clean the wave up?


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Down....




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TXSurf4
03-03-2019, 01:11 PM
I am guessing that since it is done with the actuator that it changes the % of deployment depending on a certain variable or set of variables.... but could the same be achieved to some level with the 2.0 tabs by removing them and taking to a shop with a press break or other forming tools and having the corner presses down to a certain angle?


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dakota4ce
03-03-2019, 02:45 PM
I would say....you could cut the corner, hinge it, use a SS turnbuckle with a couple heim ends and have a semi adjustable version.

How you left them set would depend on how far down they could be left and not interfere with flow of water when in the up position. I think I have a pic someplace...

I actually had caught wind at some point that there could be a reverse compatible kit like this available sometime in the future. I think surf tab design is a legal subject right now, so some things have to wait for some dust to settle.


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Shoebox
03-03-2019, 03:01 PM
I would say....you could cut the corner, hinge it, use a SS turnbuckle with a couple heim ends and have a semi adjustable version.This is what I'm kicking around doing. The turnbuckle would take up much less space than an actuator, so it would be feasible on my setup. Easier on the Flow 2.0 system, because the actuator mounts so close to the hinge. It would be very easy to make a new set of tabs for flow 2.0, I'd go with a hinged/turnbuckle setup before a simple bend with a big flap.


How you left them set would depend on how far down they could be left and not interfere with flow of water when in the up position. I think I have a pic someplace...With Flow 2.0, the tabs aren't up very far, so you couldn't leave a lot of down angle on the flap. That said, the Flow 3.0 flap doesn't extend down very far at max extension.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190303/58e50d7dace59258838b83912eccfa24.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190303/599eb4a4dcdbf15bd3af4283f351c746.jpg

MJHSupra
03-06-2019, 12:04 AM
Bigger and better??

Has anyone seen this model installed on a SC boat?

https://www.infinitywave.net/collections/water-sport-trim-tabs-surf-wakeboard-ski-and-cruise




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Shoebox
03-06-2019, 12:07 AM
Bigger and better??

Has anyone seen this model installed on a SC boat?

https://www.infinitywave.net/collections/water-sport-trim-tabs-surf-wakeboard-ski-and-cruise




Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLooks quite similar to my smaller silver tabs.

dakota4ce
03-06-2019, 12:20 AM
Looks quite similar to my smaller silver tabs.

Also look very similar to the tabs on the centurion FI series.


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jason1973
03-06-2019, 09:28 AM
DO IT!! I spoke a little bit with a guy that has 3.0 on April. He didnít give me a whole lot of feedback leaving me to believe that it is far superior. But even if itís a little bit superior, it would be so easy, and would be worth it.


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Has anyone heard if Flow 3 is better? when i bought my boat i talked to the dealer about this and they had a craz pro in the fall that they ran. He said their team didn't notice anything better than flow 2 on a similar craz. Didn't sound like it was that much better or made a huge difference. Only thing he said was its supposed to make the wave a little more adjustable.

MJHSupra
03-06-2019, 09:29 AM
The back of the Centurion boats are interesting: curved center plate and curved tabs. Almost across the back of transom.

Looking to get a ride in a 23 this summer. Local dealer does surf demo rides on Thursday nights at one of the marinas.

dakota4ce
03-06-2019, 10:01 AM
Has anyone heard if Flow 3 is better? when i bought my boat i talked to the dealer about this and they had a craz pro in the fall that they ran. He said their team didn't notice anything better than flow 2 on a similar craz. Didn't sound like it was that much better or made a huge difference. Only thing he said was its supposed to make the wave a little more adjustable.

I spoke at length with a guy who owns one. He thought the difference was marginal.


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dakota4ce
03-06-2019, 10:18 AM
The back of the Centurion boats are interesting: curved center plate and curved tabs. Almost across the back of transom.

Looking to get a ride in a 23 this summer. Local dealer does surf demo rides on Thursday nights at one of the marinas.

You in MN?


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MJHSupra
03-06-2019, 02:48 PM
You in MN?


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TN. There is a dealer on Norris Lake. They did a lot of talking at the boat show.

Only time I get to MN is when I work at Mayo. Then I freeze my azz off . . . at least I am this winter.


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dakota4ce
03-06-2019, 02:54 PM
TN. There is a dealer on Norris Lake. They did a lot of talking at the boat show.

Only time I get to MN is when I work at Mayo. Then I freeze my azz off . . . at least I am this winter.


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Roger that. Maybe that is a common thing among centurion dealers. Thursday night demo nights.


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MJHSupra
03-06-2019, 10:03 PM
I think it is. Good idea is they can get more people interested in the boats . . . if people can get past the interiors. back-flow issues, and that funky exhaust setup.