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View Full Version : Mojo vs Axis T-23



GW@vineyardlake
02-19-2019, 01:41 PM
Has anyone else seen the video comparing the Mojo to Axis T-23 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE2-5fZ5ySs)? Not sure if it's apples-to-apples, they say stock ballast for both.

larry_arizona
02-19-2019, 01:47 PM
Has anyone else seen the video comparing the Mojo to Axis T-23 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE2-5fZ5ySs)? Not sure if it's apples-to-apples, they say stock ballast for both.

Axis paid for that marketing, so take it with a grain of salt.


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dakota4ce
02-19-2019, 01:49 PM
Oh boy....yes lots have seen. FAKE NEWS.

T23 is a fine surfer, but the vid is garbage.


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sandm
02-19-2019, 02:26 PM
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/dc/dcc6c074569bd39866f43364a26ff021571f79c8b2fc184613 5f598b850fab2d.jpg

jason1973
02-19-2019, 02:28 PM
The T23 is a good surf boat. Probably easier to set up for surfing but the negatives out weigh the positives. I truly love all boats and every mfg that is out there, but we looked at Axis because that's what i wanted. Again, until i started looking at them.

dakota4ce
02-19-2019, 03:02 PM
The T23 is a good surf boat. Probably easier to set up for surfing but the negatives out weigh the positives. I truly love all boats and every mfg that is out there, but we looked at Axis because that's what i wanted. Again, until i started looking at them.

I agree. I have genuine interest in 24 until I took a good hard look at it.

But I know it surfs really well.


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Matt0520
02-19-2019, 04:02 PM
Has anyone else seen the video comparing the Mojo to Axis T-23 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE2-5fZ5ySs)? Not sure if it's apples-to-apples, they say stock ballast for both.

Stock ballast in both, but I'm sure they were tweaking the power wedge to yield best results in the wave height and length segments. Doubt they were doing anything to help the mojo. I've demo'd both and here's my thoughts:

-T23 is the superior surf boat out of the box. BUT I wouldn't touch ANY Axis unless it has the Power Wedge. The T22 and T23 I demo'd had the manual wedge and you had the choice of no bowrise and normal wave, vs allll the bowrise and a taller wave. But not very long. Seriously I'm 6'1 and had to stand to see over the bow, forget the bolster. I needed a step stool.

-I LOVE the 2019 Axis helm seat, not super comfortable but really cool looking. Also really like their helm cutout, like the Max has where the sub is more exposed and the footwell there isn't enclosed with a solid wall like in the Mojo/Craz. To me that huge wall without an upholstery pad on it just looks unfinished. And I'm sure will scratch a ton.

-Axis I believe has more cupholders (14 vs 16 when I compared the Craz to T22).

-The Moomba can be just as good with some added weight. Keep in mind that a buyer would have to pay to add plug and play plumbing to the Axis, and then pay again to add rear bags. For this money in the Moomba you can easily add 1200s or Enzo's and have a great wave, and the engine will be working less as our standard displacement is a bit higher and surf system is creating less resistance.

-A and T series interiors are better in 2019 but I still think Mooomba wins in fit/finish and some interior appointments/thoughtfulness. For example, Axis is crowing about adding a cell phone holder to their dash. It's screwed in with like 2 screws and looks like an afterthought but it's metal at least. Anyway, the input for the radio is on the OPPOSITE side of the dash...so you have to snake a cord all the way over. Unlike on Malibu's where the input is right under the cell phone holder and you can buy a small cable to connect your phone to the boat. Stupid decision if you ask me, again makes phone holder seem like a real last minute add on.

-Seating comfort is better in the Moomba. If you look at an Axis cockpit, they have those cool new billet handles, but no seatback cushions under them. Just big sections of open decking with a speaker below and a handle up top. To me, this effectively reduces some of the capacity in the boat, as nobody is gonna want to sit in that spot. The handles are also super cool looking on the 2019 Axis' but they are super blunt and really hurt if you knock an ankle, knee, or elbow against them. Ask me how I know. :(

-Dash is infinitely better in the Moomba. Looks better and great visibility with the offset screen. I also like how all the controls are in one place. Axis splits them up into 3 places, one pad on either side of the steering wheel and a third smaller pad for cruise control, wedge, and surf system.

Just some random thoughts! Hereís an interior comparison to illustrate what I was saying about the handles and seating. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190219/38ef32978cd003b3f7e1bae9a83db15b.jpg

jason1973
02-19-2019, 04:36 PM
Don't forget Axis has fancy plastic cup holders that fly out when trailering. At my local boat show they were missing from most of the axis boats. People probably swiped them. They need to be glued in. But that's the thing about Axis, the quality was certainly lacking and The fit and finish is terrible. Fiberglass stings hanging under the seats. They are NOT Bu quality as much as some like to think.

Bow rise is nuts when surfing, and you need to add more than 500 lbs in the front to control that. 500lb just isn't enough IMO. It has 2 things going for it..

1. looks
2. easy to setup surf wave (surf gate)

But with surf gate you have to fight the steering to keep in on track. RPM's jump up when using the wedge, and its a gas hog using the gate. Here is a pic of the interior on the Axis i was looking at.. notice how the stitching doesn't even line up on the seats. This one looks like a 4th grade art project. 28071

I will ride in any boat, and they all do their thing. But for the prices we pay i expect more than axis can offer.

Matt0520
02-19-2019, 04:48 PM
Don't forget Axis has fancy plastic cup holders that fly out when trailering. At my local boat show they were missing from most of the axis boats. People probably swiped them. They need to be glued in. But that's the thing about Axis, the quality was certainly lacking and The fit and finish is terrible. Fiberglass stings hanging under the seats. They are NOT Bu quality as much as some like to think.

Bow rise is nuts when surfing, and you need to add more than 500 lbs in the front to control that. 500lb just isn't enough IMO. It has 2 things going for it..

1. looks
2. easy to setup surf wave (surf gate)

But with surf gate you have to fight the steering to keep in on track. RPM's jump up when using the wedge, and its a gas hog using the gate. Here is a pic of the interior on the Axis i was looking at.. notice how the stitching doesn't even line up on the seats. This one looks like a 4th grade art project. 28071

I will ride in any boat, and they all do their thing. But for the prices we pay i expect more than axis can offer.

Good points. Axis makes you add the cleats, stainless cup holders, etc little things that are standard in Moomba. But they do discount way more so the net price ends up being about the same model for model from what Iíve seen.

Which model is in your pic. Weird that it had the updated helm seat but the un-recessed glove box.


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jason1973
02-19-2019, 04:55 PM
it was listed as a 2019. I got a price on it, and it came in $4000 more than my loaded 2019 mondo i just bought. Heard Axis was raising prices 9% this year and that others are lowering specifically MC and the NXT line up to better line up in the budget market.

Matt0520
02-19-2019, 04:56 PM
it was listed as a 2019. I got a price on it, and it came in $4000 more than my loaded 2019 mondo i just bought. Heard Axis was raising prices 9% this year and that others are lowering specifically MC and the NXT line up to better line up in the budget market.

Yeah the NXT needs to be the cheapest in the category I think. Meh interior and wave


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dakota4ce
02-19-2019, 05:07 PM
I am heavily betting the Axis in the vid has the 750s rear PnP.....does it say it doesnít? If I recall they used some clever wording to make it unclear.


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KnoxMojo
02-19-2019, 08:18 PM
I am heavily betting the Axis in the vid has the 750s rear PnP.....does it say it doesn’t? If I recall they used some clever wording to make it unclear.


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Said something about if came with plug and play from the factory that they used the recommended bags for ballast.. blah blah blah

dakota4ce
02-19-2019, 08:37 PM
Said something about if came with plug and play from the factory that they used the recommended bags for ballast.. blah blah blah

Yeah there you goóit was really sly but indicated there was weight in there. Good call Knox.


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elevatedconcept
02-20-2019, 03:16 PM
A malibu or Axis is not even worthy of toweling the sweat off of a supra or moomba in regard to fit and finish. The boats are starting to have a pretty wide gap between the 2.

As much of an innovator malibu was to the sport, they have softened. Still make a nice ride but most majors have pushed past them in terms of technology, wave and layout.

jason1973
02-20-2019, 03:32 PM
I do agree with this, but their pricing doesn't. Its always nice to visit a boat show where you can hop between brands and really see the differences up close and all at the same time.

Malibu to me at least has also dropped in quality. They used to be the brand to have, but not so much anymore when you have SC, MC and even Tige in the mix now. I was luck enough to have Moomba/Supra right next to Malibu/Axis at our boat show. Just made me realize how much happier i am ordering a new moomba this year instead of the Axis. I went right from a mondo to an A20 and the differences where quite noticable immediately.

schwan
02-20-2019, 09:11 PM
You know, I agree with these sentiments, but up here in MN there's huge Malibu loyalty... At our boat show you had to throw elbows to get a look at the '19 Malibu/Axis boats, Moomba/Supra was empty. My buddies all ride axis a couple T23s even, I'm looked at like the black sheep in my mojo, that's why I troll these forums... Looking for people who agree with me who are states away!

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dakota4ce
02-20-2019, 11:24 PM
You know, I agree with these sentiments, but up here in MN there's huge Malibu loyalty... At our boat show you had to throw elbows to get a look at the '19 Malibu/Axis boats, Moomba/Supra was empty. My buddies all ride axis a couple T23s even, I'm looked at like the black sheep in my mojo, that's why I troll these forums... Looking for people who agree with me who are states away!

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Itís a lot of dealer loyalty. MN Inboard does a killer job selling and servicing. They have strong relationships and a good presence. Then by default, the hype around those lines is strong.

The boats are actually the weak part!


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Boonejeepin
02-21-2019, 01:10 AM
Malibu quality seems to have degraded. My neighbor has (had) a 2019 24MXZ and it has been in and out of the shop with all kinds of issues both cosmetically and mechanically. I say ďhadĒ because his boat is being shipped back to the plant in TN to fix some major concerns with the new Malibu marinized motor. What a shame considering this is a $140k boat. If it was me I would be demanding a replacement boat. He has 15 hours on the boat at most. At least they are trying to fix the issues.


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jason1973
02-21-2019, 09:11 AM
He was able to get the new Malibu motor? Wasn't aware that was available yet in the states.

Boonejeepin
02-21-2019, 09:43 AM
He was able to get the new Malibu motor? Wasn't aware that was available yet in the states.

It definitely has the new motor. It had to be one of the first. He took delivery around Halloween and itís been in the possession of dealer or repair shop almost the entire time since then.

This is a picture of his motor.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190221/8b6f90139c279361e31c1e38d245c420.jpg


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larry_arizona
02-21-2019, 09:49 AM
It definitely has the new motor. It had to be one of the first. He took delivery around Halloween and itís been in the possession of dealer or repair shop almost the entire time since then.

This is a picture of his motor.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190221/8b6f90139c279361e31c1e38d245c420.jpg


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Never been a fan of first year production on anything. Far too many issues need to be resolved.


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jason1973
02-21-2019, 10:54 AM
agreed, especially this motor for a boat. Guys on the BU side have been raving about this motor but wasn't aware you could get one yet. Good to know. I would not have done a first year buy either. I think Bu is doing this to control costs and pump up shareholders. Kind of like they did with their trailers. Save money, charge just as much. I have no hate for bu, just seem to be going a tad backwards on fit and finish and reliability. Love the look of their boats however.

if this motor actually ends up doing what they claim, it will be a hard one to beat in the future.

rdlangston13
02-21-2019, 12:26 PM
agreed, especially this motor for a boat. Guys on the BU side have been raving about this motor but wasn't aware you could get one yet. Good to know. I would not have done a first year buy either. I think Bu is doing this to control costs and pump up shareholders. Kind of like they did with their trailers. Save money, charge just as much. I have no hate for bu, just seem to be going a tad backwards on fit and finish and reliability. Love the look of their boats however.

if this motor actually ends up doing what they claim, it will be a hard one to beat in the future.

what are they claiming it will do exactly?

larry_arizona
02-21-2019, 12:41 PM
what are they claiming it will do exactly?

Exactly this, what is Malibu claiming they can do with the GM engines that PCM hasnít already been doing with the LS and LT? ďClaim 10 more HP with the same exact engine with nothing proving it makes 10hp moreĒ?? Lol

Engine marinizers typically get what the OEMís give them. They simply make the boat ready.

My take is bu is massive and simply bringing engine marinizing in house to try and capture the profit. Time will tell if this works out or they simply go back to Indmar or pcm suppliers.

Not always better to bring everything in house, that is for bean counters to figure out.




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jason1973
02-21-2019, 01:47 PM
They are claiming best in class HP and torque, and significant increase in GPH using DI technology. Also claiming easy access to service just about anything including impeller and oil changes. oh and significantly quieter operation.

larry_arizona
02-21-2019, 02:13 PM
They are claiming best in class HP and torque, and significant increase in GPH using DI technology. Also claiming easy access to service just about anything including impeller and oil changes. oh and significantly quieter operation.

But PCM already has the same GM engines claiming the same.

Is Bu claiming higher hp/torque/GPH than PCM GM DI engines?


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jason1973
02-21-2019, 02:26 PM
But PCM already has the same GM engines claiming the same.

Is Bu claiming higher hp/torque/GPH than PCM GM DI engines?


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from what some have said, the answer is yes. The marketing behind it was Bu was bringing this in house and making these improvements. But you can't always believe what you hear on the internet.

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/manufacturers/ibex-2018-malibu-introduces-new-engines

larry_arizona
02-21-2019, 02:54 PM
PCM claims 450hp/465ft lbs for its GM 6.2l DI

Malibu 400hp/??? Ft lbs. for same 6.2l

Interesting.


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Boonejeepin
02-21-2019, 03:07 PM
They are claiming best in class HP and torque, and significant increase in GPH using DI technology. Also claiming easy access to service just about anything including impeller and oil changes. oh and significantly quieter operation.

The GPH killer on the Malibu/Axis line is the drag of the surf gates while surfing. A motor does not address that.

There is just too much marketing hype but that sells boats to those willing to take the word of others as fact.


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jwl019
02-21-2019, 05:19 PM
The GPH killer on the Malibu/Axis line is the drag of the surf gates while surfing. A motor does not address that.

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In my experience, it's using the wedge and not the surfgates. You can see the rpm difference between a surf/wakeboard set without the wedge vs the next set using the wedge.

Boonejeepin
02-21-2019, 08:56 PM
In my experience, it's using the wedge and not the surfgates. You can see the rpm difference between a surf/wakeboard set without the wedge vs the next set using the wedge.

That makes sense.


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patrick232
02-22-2019, 10:22 AM
From what I heard at the boat show from some engine people is Malibu is having a tough time with their engine building and have been begging some of the engine builders to help or sell them engines. PCM was bought by Correct Craft a few years ago and this was the main reason for them wanting their own motor.

larry_arizona
02-22-2019, 10:25 AM
Maybe they should contact mercury marine and use their new 6.2l

I donít know why Malibu bailed on Indmar Raptor, but itís not the first time Bu has screwed over a engine supplier.

https://boatingindustry.com/news/2016/09/19/jury-orders-malibu-boats-to-pay-3-1-million-to-marine-power-for-breach-of-contract/


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