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Matt0520
02-01-2019, 07:56 AM
Interesting videos...I’ll just leave this one here [emoji848]

https://vimeo.com/313226090


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Whitey
02-01-2019, 09:52 AM
I believe it, but I’ve never seen an Axis ride flat the nose is always much higher.

Matt0520
02-01-2019, 09:53 AM
I believe it, but I’ve never seen an Axis ride flat the nose is always much higher.

Notice where passengers are though.

And it does say this was paid for by Malibu/Axis.


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flienlow
02-01-2019, 10:30 AM
Cant deny that Axis wake looks so much better. I wonder how long this took to stage?

Dan
02-01-2019, 10:38 AM
What I saw is Malibu/AXIS is threatened by Moomba. I could make a video showing Moomba out performing an AXIS. If they are saying a 90k boat puts out a better wave than a 95K boat right off the show room floor, I could agree to that. But as the rest of you know, add some ballast, tinker with the plates, and speed and you can have a ridiculous wave that is better than the video shows for less than the difference in money. Just my 2 cents.

Did they even mention the weight displacement between the two?

Matt0520
02-01-2019, 10:39 AM
What I saw is Malibu/AXIS is threatened by Moomba. I could make a video showing Moomba out performing an AXIS. If they are saying a 90k boat puts out a better wave than a 95K boat right off the show room floor, I could agree to that. But as the rest of you know, add some ballast, tinker with the plates, and speed and you can have a ridiculous wave that is better than the video shows for less than the difference in money. Just my 2 cents.

Right, and for the price you pay to add bags to the axis you could upgrade the bags in the Moomba as well


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sandm
02-01-2019, 10:46 AM
completely agree with dan that a few dollars in larger bags would net a much closer race and do not believe the axis wave will change as much as the mojo with the additional weight from bags and lets face it- no one is leaving these in stock form as the rating plate tie manuf. hands.

so now that we've compared waves, lets compare interior fit/finish/quality, 2 year resale value and which one will trailer at a tad better mpg due to overall gross weight.

schwan
02-01-2019, 10:52 AM
A stock mojo will never compete against a T23 with PNP bags, it's just the truth. Both boats slammed to their potential... Now that would be a close race, the T23 probably still wins, but it would be very close.

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dakota4ce
02-01-2019, 10:57 AM
A stock mojo will never compete against a T23 with PNP bags, it's just the truth. Both boats slammed to their potential... Now that would be a close race, the T23 probably still wins, but it would be very close.

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I happen to think that the ceiling is higher on a boat with tabs versus a boat with gates.


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corvette8189
02-01-2019, 11:55 AM
Funny how they disabled the comments.

haknslash
02-01-2019, 01:49 PM
Yea the wave looks nice but what about the rest of the boat and stuff that matters :D? Anyone that has ever sat or drove both will know the Moomba is a much nicer boat. The interior of a Axis has as much plastic as a 1992 Chevrolet Cavalier. With the wedge deployed those boats feel like dragging a parachute or at least that’s how the A22 I drove felt. The bow was riding sky high when I was running surf speeds with wedge deployed and the view from the seat doesn’t help visibility matters either due to windshield design.

soonerbilly
02-01-2019, 02:00 PM
Not to argue with bow rise.....but the wedge is like 1200 lbs....you add 1200 lbs to the rear of any boat without the approx. 60/40 split they will almost all ride nose high. Not saying either is better but that's just kind of a weak sauce argument. Of course Axis KNOWING this should also have them from the factory with more nose weight but hey we cant always get what we want lol.

dakota4ce
02-01-2019, 02:32 PM
Not to argue with bow rise.....but the wedge is like 1200 lbs....you add 1200 lbs to the rear of any boat without the approx. 60/40 split they will almost all ride nose high. Not saying either is better but that's just kind of a weak sauce argument. Of course Axis KNOWING this should also have them from the factory with more nose weight but hey we cant always get what we want lol.

I would rather use real weight than “wedge” weight. The increase in relative drag with the wedge is crazy high, whereas you can sink the ass of a boat with straight weight and not be pulling a parachute through the water.

And yes to the bow weight. My buds 17 23LSV needs a hideous triangle bow sac to remotely work well enough to hang with our other crew boats (SL, SE, Makai, RZX3).


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TXSurf4
02-01-2019, 02:43 PM
I would rather use real weight than “wedge” weight. The increase in relative drag with the wedge is crazy high, whereas you can sink the ass of a boat with straight weight and not be pulling a parachute through the water.

And yes to the bow weight. My buds 17 23LSV needs a hideous triangle bow sac to remotely work well enough to hang with our other crew boats (SL, SE, Makai, RZX3).


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I have always wondered that about the wedge and it's drag. It has to create a crazy amount of stress on the components and mounting locations on the hull vs just slamming the boat. I am not saying that it isn't all well engineered or up to the task but I am just not a fan of "pulling the boat down". (I know spoken like a true Moomba owner LOL!! );)

Matt0520
02-01-2019, 03:00 PM
I have always wondered that about the wedge and it's drag. It has to create a crazy amount of stress on the components and mounting locations on the hull vs just slamming the boat. I am not saying that it isn't all well engineered or up to the task but I am just not a fan of "pulling the boat down". (I know spoken like a true Moomba owner LOL!! );)

Keep it coming! LOL, the last thing I want while mine is built is to feel any buyer's remorse.

PS - spray date is today! Happy Birthday to my Craz :) Gotta pick a name for it...Batman? Bruiser? lol

dakota4ce
02-01-2019, 03:09 PM
You don’t want an Axis brother. Don’t worry about that!


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flienlow
02-01-2019, 03:10 PM
keep it coming! Lol, the last thing i want while mine is built is to feel any buyer's remorse.



what he said!!

Pound
02-01-2019, 03:17 PM
This marketing group that did this video also has one comparing a bu to a mastercraft. One thing i noticed in both videos is the axis and the bu are always closer to the camera in the "side by side" shots. so it's a bit of camera trickery that of course makes the closer wave look bigger. and from what i can tell, they used that imagery to "measure" the waive height and length and volume. and you KNOW they spent more time dialing in their boats to get a prettier wave. hells bells, i can create a TERRIBLE wave out of my boat if i choose to. It's real easy to demonstrate how BAD a wave can be on any boat.
I've never been in or behind an axis. but in 100% fairness, all i've heard is they do put out a nice surf wave stock.
I agree w/the, they're scared, comment. SC is killing it.
Zero regret/buyers remorse.... period.

Matt0520
02-01-2019, 03:17 PM
You don’t want an Axis brother. Don’t worry about that!


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For sure, the only thing it had going for it when I demo'd was the wave. And it was MAYBE a bit better but that can be tweaked. And much better GPH with the Craz.

The_Robo_Fighter
02-01-2019, 03:52 PM
My best friend has a A24 which we’ve used a fair amount. However, I just sold my LSV and bought a Makai. Just saying..........

28032

haknslash
02-01-2019, 04:05 PM
Speaking of waves, I just notified this on my YT notifications. Always admired the Centurions but $$$$ for that wave!


https://youtu.be/bez5Qx8zPXw

KnoxMojo
02-01-2019, 04:13 PM
[QUOTE=Pound;336703]I've never been in or behind an axis. but in 100% fairness, all i've heard is they do put out a nice surf wave stock.

QUOTE]

Actually, Malibu and Axis put out a terrible wave in total stock form from the factory. The plug and play option is only hoses, valves and vents, no bags. So an A22 with just small factory hard tanks and a wedge isn't going to be better that a stock Craz. That being said, like others previously, not many people leave them in stock form. The article for the video states that if pnp was an option from the factory, they used it. Well, pnp doesn't get you bags. So just like all the videos, they are full of crap.

haknslash
02-01-2019, 04:17 PM
Wow I didn’t realize they sold pnp without bags. That’s crazy. I mean I know a lot of people swap out stock bags for larger ones but still you would expect some kind of bag with a pnp option. The A22 i demoed had 850 SUMO sacs in there so I guess the dealer added them.

28033

28034

28035

Matt0520
02-01-2019, 04:19 PM
Wow I didn’t realize they sold pnp without bags. That’s crazy. I mean I know a lot of people swap out stock bags for larger ones but still you would expect some kind of bag with a pnp option.

Yeah the Axis’ are actually rated without bags. So once you add those the stated capacity of 16 (on a 22 footer) is technically only in the neighborhood of ~12.


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KnoxMojo
02-01-2019, 04:21 PM
From what I know and can remember from the couple Axis that I have had, it is a legal and safety thing. From my understanding, the Skiers Choice boats will not totally sink if submerged. I am thinking that is not the case with the Malibu/Axis boats. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in.

MLA
02-01-2019, 04:48 PM
article for the video states that if pnp was an option from the factory, they used it. Well, pnp doesn't get you bags.

Goes on to state they used the "recommended" PnP sacs. So technically not factory, like the other boats.


Wow I didn’t realize they sold pnp without bags.

Hence the PnP designation. Other wise, it would just be additional ballast option.

Shoebox
02-01-2019, 06:27 PM
Speaking of waves, I just notified this on my YT notifications. Always admired the Centurions but $$$$ for that wave!


https://youtu.be/bez5Qx8zPXwThat kid is about 100 lbs, and the board goes up to his chin. I could get 25'+ behind my boat on a board that goes to my chin, too.

dakota4ce
02-01-2019, 06:59 PM
Just watched. 12.5 mph, 120# 28” waist kid on a 4’10” skimmer. And 5’ of slack in the tape.

Really guys? C’mon. The rest of the wave blows, it’s flat and boring. These guys have to know they’re spewing total horse manure but it works on some people so they do it anyway.

Nice feedback from the kid. [emoji3061]


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FamilyMan
02-01-2019, 08:50 PM
Just got back from the DFW boat show and Malibu/Axis dealer had a tower in the middle of their section with 4 TVs....guess what was playing :rolleyes:

soonerbilly
02-01-2019, 11:03 PM
I would rather use real weight than “wedge” weight. The increase in relative drag with the wedge is crazy high, whereas you can sink the ass of a boat with straight weight and not be pulling a parachute through the water.

And yes to the bow weight. My buds 17 23LSV needs a hideous triangle bow sac to remotely work well enough to hang with our other crew boats (SL, SE, Makai, RZX3).


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Oh I don't like the axis/Malibu wedge crap either.....sucks gas. Just saying anything that rear heavy is gonna ride bow high.....I have an old ass 2002 Calabria Pro-V so ANY of these newer boats would be bad ass to me lol. But mine with a Nauticurl does OK for me and my recreational crew.

DFTR Josh
02-02-2019, 10:30 AM
Videos like these are great but fake news. This last year my Moomba took 3rd place at surf fest, side by side riding then a vote from the public. Poor Axis has broke down every year and never makes it to the end on day 2.
28037

Matt0520
02-02-2019, 10:57 AM
Videos like these are great but fake news. This last year my Moomba took 3rd place at surf fest, side by side riding then a vote from the public. Poor Axis has broke down every year and never makes it to the end on day 2.
28037

Nice! Setup on that wave? Have a port side pic?


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larry_arizona
02-02-2019, 11:04 AM
If the AXIS video was put together by AXIS, I expect bias. Of course they play it at the boat show. Marketing 101.

I shopped bu and axis and was largely unimpressed.

Axis was plain boring and frankly had never seen such poor gelcoat, fit and finish. The only worse interior fitment was Centurion’s Fi series, although had perfect gelcoat.

Bu had lots of gadgets, but felt more flash than quality. Plus everyone in my area owns a BU LSV yawn.






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schwan
02-02-2019, 11:05 AM
Oh I don't like the axis/Malibu wedge crap either.....sucks gas. Just saying anything that rear heavy is gonna ride bow high.....I have an old ass 2002 Calabria Pro-V so ANY of these newer boats would be bad ass to me lol. But mine with a Nauticurl does OK for me and my recreational crew.You know, they say the wedge provides 1200/1500 lbs of "ballast" but I would guess this is at wake speed, not surf speed. I don't know enough about foil hydrolics to guess how much "ballast" you get out of it at 11mph. The nicest thing I see with the wedge is take off mode for more lift.

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flienlow
02-02-2019, 12:37 PM
DFTR-

What boat and ballast set up do you have?

haknslash
02-02-2019, 12:45 PM
I think that's when he was testing a Max.

Edo88
02-02-2019, 06:13 PM
Just got back from the DFW boat show and Malibu/Axis dealer had a tower in the middle of their section with 4 TVs....guess what was playing :rolleyes:

I didn’t even notice it lol we looked at the blue interior axis and realized it’s still the same crap interior from last year and kept walking. Was glad to see moomba Supra was set up right there as soon as you enter.


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MJHSupra
02-02-2019, 06:42 PM
The guys on the MC and Nauti forums are also getting a laugh from the BU marketing.

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996scott
02-02-2019, 06:59 PM
This marketing group that did this video also has one comparing a bu to a mastercraft. One thing i noticed in both videos is the axis and the bu are always closer to the camera in the "side by side" shots. so it's a bit of camera trickery that of course makes the closer wave look bigger. and from what i can tell, they used that imagery to "measure" the waive height and length and volume. and you KNOW they spent more time dialing in their boats to get a prettier wave. hells bells, i can create a TERRIBLE wave out of my boat if i choose to. It's real easy to demonstrate how BAD a wave can be on any boat.
I've never been in or behind an axis. but in 100% fairness, all i've heard is they do put out a nice surf wave stock.
I agree w/the, they're scared, comment. SC is killing it.
Zero regret/buyers remorse.... period.

that's funny you said that because that was the first thing i noticed as well that the Axis is always up front. I am taking a photography class right now and just learned the principal of "forced perspective". Basically it means that if you want something to look bigger than it is, then you put it in the foreground and it will make everything else in the background look smaller.

Shoebox
02-03-2019, 02:45 AM
I didn’t even notice it lol we looked at the blue interior axis and realized it’s still the same crap interior from last year and kept walking. Was glad to see moomba Supra was set up right there as soon as you enter.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAll the issues I noticed with the 18 Axis interior have been rectified in the 19.

jcarter20
02-03-2019, 12:51 PM
It is all about set up in my opinion. I have been behind a 2015 Axis T22 and a 2017 Malibu 23LSV. The LSV has a larger, longer wave than I have been able to produce with my Craz, but it should when set up properly. It also cost $30k more. My Craz is easily as good or better than the T22 when comparing waves. Both boats had the PNP bags added, and definitely needed them to reach max potential. I have not upgraded bags in my Craz because I want the extra storage space. However, the great part about the Moomba is using the Autowake to see your potential amplitude. I can certainly notice a larger / longer wave when I have a full boat, full tank of gas and coolers full of “soda”..... That being said, I purchased some lead Wake over the winter and can’t wait to see how that helps the overall surf wave when running a light crew. Personally, I think all these boats can produce some pretty badass waves.
That being said, for me it came down to fit and finish. Moomba was far superior to Axis in my opinion. People can also say what they want about Autowake, but if you take the time to research it and understand it, it works. That helps with producing the same wave each time. I wouldn’t even consider trading my Craz for an Axis or a Malibu right now. Or any other boat for that matter....ok maybe an SE550.


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MJHSupra
02-03-2019, 02:02 PM
Or any other boat for that matter....ok maybe an SE550.

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Ha ha. Agree. I will take the SL. 450 is good for me.

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jamesthomass
02-04-2019, 04:55 AM
Sorry
Because of its privacy settings, this video cannot be played here.
Shows Error

MJHSupra
02-04-2019, 06:03 AM
Copy/Paste the link into a browser:

Another forum was reporting the website down.

https://www.guinnpartners.com/boat-testing/



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TXSurf4
02-04-2019, 10:00 AM
So if you go to the site the also review A G23 against a both 25 LSV & 24 MXZ in which the BU "wins" in both, funny how they put a 25' & 24' against a 23'.......:confused:

In fact every video on their site is a BU product vs another brand and in everyone BU "wins":roll:

dakota4ce
02-04-2019, 10:06 AM
#undefeated


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TXSurf4
02-04-2019, 10:14 AM
#undefeated


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LMAO!! I almost spit my coffee all over my desk when I saw this!!

MJHSupra
02-04-2019, 08:35 PM
BU paid for it, so I assume they will have something to play at the boat shows.

Probably looks pretty looping all day at the BU booth.




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padge
02-05-2019, 05:05 AM
Coming from a 2012 Malibu 247 I can say that boat is built pretty well. The new ones seem to lack a little fit and finish. Def good looking boat, but I think Supra is the boat to beat right now. The new SE. I would’ve went with that but too much dinero lol. Went with a used 18 se. but honestly my Malibu feels every bit as nice on the inside. Just has a different feel.

As far as wave goes, haven’t even been behind a Supra ever lol. My Malibu stock was def lack luster for an adult, but soak it with weight and look out. The wave gets huge. Hopefully I will be equally as pleased with the new boat ls wave.

Truth be told, all of them can make a nice surf wave if setup right, and you can make things look Any way you want with enough tweaking. So unless you saw both boats side by side, be hard for me to believe the waves were that much better. All that aside, surf gate works really well. I hate to thrash any brand because we all love these boats for the same reason. Everyone has their own tastes and opinions and that’s what makes the world go around!


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MJHSupra
02-06-2019, 12:05 AM
Coming from a 2012 Malibu 247 I can say that boat is built pretty well. The new ones seem to lack a little fit and finish. Def good looking boat, but I think Supra is the boat to beat right now. The new SE. I would’ve went with that but too much dinero lol. Went with a used 18 se. but honestly my Malibu feels every bit as nice on the inside. Just has a different feel.

As far as wave goes, haven’t even been behind a Supra ever lol. My Malibu stock was def lack luster for an adult, but soak it with weight and look out. The wave gets huge. Hopefully I will be equally as pleased with the new boat ls wave.

Truth be told, all of them can make a nice surf wave if setup right, and you can make things look Any way you want with enough tweaking. So unless you saw both boats side by side, be hard for me to believe the waves were that much better. All that aside, surf gate works really well. I hate to thrash any brand because we all love these boats for the same reason. Everyone has their own tastes and opinions and that’s what makes the world go around!


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Did the 12s or 13s have a Surf Gate - I think it was 13?

padge
02-07-2019, 08:19 AM
Did the 12s or 13s have a Surf Gate - I think it was 13?

13’s did


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