Boat Sale Climate

[flienlow]

Does anyone have any insights into the current boat sales climate out there? Are boat flying off lots, and I should be so lucky to get a build slot? -Hence shut up and buy? or.....

From my perspective, the boats are more expensive than they have ever been (Which is always the case and we all know fun ain't free) but what is more is that interest rates have gone up substantially. I am uncertain if this is going to lower the affordability index for these luxury purchases?

The Price of the Max from last year has gone up (for what I have been shopping for ) what seems to be about $5,000 . Last year, I could have got the same boat for 68K (1 only dealer owned) , and this year its up to 73K (same thing.) The payment will have gone up by $45, and total cost of loan is up $7,400 all of which are + or -. Taking this into consideration along with the financial markets dropping along with housing is making me take a pause on whether this is a good year for a new boat or not.

I could always refi if rates improve, but aside for gauging whether is the right move for us to do or not, I am also curious I what I should Really pay for a Max. My LSV what a dead give away at 50k, even with that I have still lost quite a bit in Value in it.

[rdlangston13]

Everything I’ve been hearing that interest are going to stop going up and possible start going back down this year due to a global economic slow down. But I am not expert.


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[Matt0520]

Does anyone have any insights into the current boat sales climate out there? Are boat flying off lots, and I should be so lucky to get a build slot? -Hence shut up and buy? or.....

From my perspective, the boats are more expensive than they have ever been (Which is always the case and we all know fun ain't free) but what is more is that interest rates have gone up substantially. I am uncertain if this is going to lower the affordability index for these luxury purchases?

The Price of the Max from last year has gone up (for what I have been shopping for ) what seems to be about $5,000 . Last year, I could have got the same boat for 68K (1 only dealer owned) , and this year its up to 73K (same thing.) The payment will have gone up by $45, and total cost of loan is up $7,400 all of which are + or -. Taking this into consideration along with the financial markets dropping along with housing is making me take a pause on whether this is a good year for a new boat or not.

I could always refi if rates improve, but aside for gauging whether is the right move for us to do or not, I am also curious I what I should Really pay for a Max. My LSV what a dead give away at 50k, even with that I have still lost quite a bit in Value in it.

Yellen has said that future increases have been postponed indefinitely this year so I don't see another increase imminent. Not sure if they'll go down or not but probably not going up anytime soon. If you do a build, your dealer should be able to lock your rates for 90 days so no worries there. Best I've seen were 4.75% for 15 years and 5.25% for 20. Either way, wouldn't count on a refi unless you're putting a chunk down, most banks require a given equity position to refi, 6 mos of on time payments, etc.

I will say Moomba doesn't have much of a perceived discount, 7-9% is what I've seen. Doesn't feel like a ton, but when we cross-shopped the T22, the Craz comes with much more (rear bags, sliding rearview seat, improved dash, cleats, bigger motor, etc.). So Axis and some others might have a larger discount (I personally was offered 15%) but that nets out to the same price as a Craz (mid to high $70s) since the T22 build MSRP came in at at least $9k more. No matter the model, it seems like we get the best bang for our buck.

As far as demand, still seems to be there. I closed our deal first weekend of the boat show, and there were already 50% of the build slots spoken for. I think prices will continue to go up until there is an adverse affect on demand. The annual increases are similar to what Rolex does. Sure, the boat (or watch) is expensive, but you'll always get your money back out of it thanks to the annual increases on new models. People keep paying for these things, so why not make them incrementally better and increase the MSRP? These manufacturers aren't stupid, I'd bet they have a whole list of improvements they're ready to make, and they sprinkle only a couple in year over year. Thinking of the Craz, 2016 was release, 2017 was bigger tabs, autowake, and color screen, 2018 was wetsounds options, newer autowake, and now 2019 is new dash, full wetsounds system, and autowake 3. Next year I'm sure they'll be some improvement and so on and so on.

If you're financing I look at it like this...I could save a hundred bucks a month or so and get a $50-60k boat that's almost a decade old. But I'm going to be putting a grand or two a year into it I figure. That alone makes up for the savings delta. And even if I don't have to put that much into it, I'd still rather pay a bit more for a new one and know how it was broke in, have the warranty, etc. Now if you're paying cash, different story.

[sandm]

if the economy does slow a tad I don't think it'll revert back to '09ish. if it does slow down a bit manufacturers will scale back build slots and lay a few off vs dropping prices for a year or 2. so if it was to completely tank it'll take a year or 2 before you see bargains start to show up.

we were on the hunt last fall and considered new. after looking at the prices we decided to go with a few years old model and save 35k off a new build. made sense for us. but we are also not needing or wanting the latest and greatest tech. lets face it, there are lots of 5 to 9 year old boats that throw every bit as good a surf wave as the new stuff, just doesn't switch side to side instantly or have the latest electronic tech on the dash. those were not big deals for us but are important or worth something to others. we sold our '12 in '17 only due to relocation and proximity to a lake made us realize we would not use it at all. a year later life brought us to 5 miles from lake mead. we wish we would have never sold the '12 as it did everything we needed it to. not top of the line, not latest surf system but a great wave we enjoyed for 5 years at a price we will never replicate.

as you ponder this ask yourself what is your current boat lacking and what's that price worth to get a new one. something you are truly missing or keeping up with the Jones'.

[Matt0520]

That's a true story, my neighbor's 2007 B52 with a suckgate throws a better wave than most other boats I've seen. Low speed maneuverability (with the suckgate on) and freeboard/space are a different story altogether though. But it runs like a top, only problem he's had is a few bunk bolts rusting out/breaking.

That's one thing that brought us to newer boats...they've gotten a ton bigger in terms of interior space.

[MJHSupra]

Hmmmm. I work in Finance and respect when people shell-out hard earned dollars for a boat. New or used.

If you want a new boat and you have specifics, get a build slot. If you wait, the next person in line will take it eventually. Supply and demand #s b/c Supra and Moomba do not have the output like BU and MC.

Boat shows are a great time to wheel/deal.

If you want a deal, find a 2018 hold-over, but they are hard to find b/c everything is picked over. You probably know this. Plus you deal with items like - “can I settle for that color or w/o that option”

Next year they will have another price increase.
Next year they will have better technology.
In 3-4 years they will probably phase-out that model and have the new one.
All 3 will be 100% true.

Bottom line, when you sit in the boat model for the demo, are you going to be happy for the next few years? Are you comfortable with the monthly pmt? If your payment is X, are you going to enjoy it for that amount.

I’m glad the new prices are so inflated to keep my used boat inflated. But I will be upgrading soon.

Boat are depreciable assets. The end. I would worry if I was one of those guys that bought a new boat every year.

Dwelling on the money aspect takes all the fun out of it for me.

Too much crazy stuff that can happen from month/month, qtr/qtr, year/year to worry about the world economy and if I can get better interest rates next month or year.

Rant over. Now go buy a new boat and start the countdown.


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[zabooda]

A lot of variables that affects the market. My observations on this site the last 17 years is the price of new boats kept going up irregardless of the economy. During slow times it appeared that builds were significantly reduced and those boats at the dealers were just held over to the next year and sometimes longer than that. Major design changes didn't exist during that time. I don't remember anyone mentioning getting a killer deal because of a downturn in the economy. Most dealers rode it out or went under.

The used market was a completely different as in 2008-2010 people lost their jobs and the first to go were recreational toys. Many people took big hits on boats, RVs and even SUVs. The biggest factor is not so much price speculation but job security. If you can afford a boat now will you be able continue to make payments five years from now?

[flienlow]

Where can I find these rates?
Best I've seen were 4.75% for 15 years and 5.25%

[MJHSupra]

Also amazed on how many 2019 Supra SEs are newly purchased.

Lots of posts on Facebook and those beautiful boats are popping up.


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[MJHSupra]

A lot of variables that affects the market. My observations on this site the last 17 years is the price of new boats kept going up irregardless of the economy. During slow times it appeared that builds were significantly reduced and those boats at the dealers were just held over to the next year and sometimes longer than that. Major design changes didn't exist during that time. I don't remember anyone mentioning getting a killer deal because of a downturn in the economy. Most dealers rode it out or went under.


^^^ This ^^^


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[Matt0520]

Where can I find these rates?
Best I've seen were 4.75% for 15 years and 5.25%

15 year was over the phone with Ohio Educational Credit Union. Chemical Bank of Michigan offers the same. Both lend all over.

20 year: (send this to your dealer's finance guy and have them match it) https://www.essexcredit.com/home/boat/rates/

[larry_arizona]

My take is not to stress about the payment, you all know what you can afford and what is over budget.

If you wanna keep up with the Jones’s you are a baller with FU kinda money.

This is not a poor mans hobby.


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[Matt0520]

This is not a poor mans hobby.


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True story. But unlike other high-end hobby worlds (like cars) boat people seem far more laid back, which is awesome. My wife's family breeds/reins quarterhorses and this crowd reminds me a lot of that one. Drinking bud heavy in their T shirts and Sam's club jeans as they climb into their quarter million dollar RV lol

[larry_arizona]

I think boat and fast cars are similar.

Most of the cars crowds I hang with are super laid back. But one rule is common.

Just like there will always be someone with a faster car, there will always be someone with a “badder”ass boat.....takes bank to stay out front.

I find my lane and I am very happy to stay in it.


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[jcarter20]

I don’t know how the build slots are working out this year, but I can tell you that by the end of boat show season last year you couldn’t get a Craz until late August. At least that is what my dealer told me. Luckily I had my order in in September of 2017 and got mine in February. Unless the climate changed from last year, I still perceive it as boats are flying off the show room floor.

I think what put me over the top to buy new vs used were all the options. It is very hard to find another boat with the exact options, paint scheme, and interior scheme. The way I looked at it was if I am going to spend $60k, I might as well spend $80k and make it exactly what I want. No sense in upgrading from a boat that “does the job” to another boat with things you don’t like about it.


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[jmvotto]

Yellen has said that future increases have been postponed indefinitely this year so I don't see another increase imminent. Not sure if they'll go down or not but probably not going up anytime soon. If you do a build, your dealer should be able to lock your rates for 90 days so no worries there. Best I've seen were 4.75% for 15 years and 5.25% for 20. Either way, wouldn't count on a refi unless you're putting a chunk down, most banks require a given equity position to refi, 6 mos of on time payments, etc.

I will say Moomba doesn't have much of a perceived discount, 7-9% is what I've seen. Doesn't feel like a ton, but when we cross-shopped the T22, the Craz comes with much more (rear bags, sliding rearview seat, improved dash, cleats, bigger motor, etc.). So Axis and some others might have a larger discount (I personally was offered 15%) but that nets out to the same price as a Craz (mid to high $70s) since the T22 build MSRP came in at at least $9k more. No matter the model, it seems like we get the best bang for our buck.

As far as demand, still seems to be there. I closed our deal first weekend of the boat show, and there were already 50% of the build slots spoken for. I think prices will continue to go up until there is an adverse affect on demand. The annual increases are similar to what Rolex does. Sure, the boat (or watch) is expensive, but you'll always get your money back out of it thanks to the annual increases on new models. People keep paying for these things, so why not make them incrementally better and increase the MSRP? These manufacturers aren't stupid, I'd bet they have a whole list of improvements they're ready to make, and they sprinkle only a couple in year over year. Thinking of the Craz, 2016 was release, 2017 was bigger tabs, autowake, and color screen, 2018 was wetsounds options, newer autowake, and now 2019 is new dash, full wetsounds system, and autowake 3. Next year I'm sure they'll be some improvement and so on and so on.

If you're financing I look at it like this...I could save a hundred bucks a month or so and get a $50-60k boat that's almost a decade old. But I'm going to be putting a grand or two a year into it I figure. That alone makes up for the savings delta. And even if I don't have to put that much into it, I'd still rather pay a bit more for a new one and know how it was broke in, have the warranty, etc. Now if you're paying cash, different story.

Yellen is no longer the Fed chairman. Powell is

[Matt0520]

Yellen is no longer the Fed chairman. Powell is

That’s I meant sry


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[jmvotto]

That’s I meant sry


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No worries she is out there chirping but has no control any more

[Matt0520]

No worries she is out there chirping but has no control any more

I think that’s where I got mixed up. Saw her quoted in a recent article


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