Raptor 400 6.2 L

[jason1973]

Getting ready to order a new Mondo. Any issues with the Raptor motor? I have had mastercrafts in the past all using the 350 mcx which is a chevy motor. NO issues and its been pretty good.

I heard something about O2 sensors, but also heard they can flash the computer as it was set a bit touchy out of the gate.

Anything to be scared of with this motor?

[PuraVida]

Been running one for 3 years. Almost 400 hours. Yes they had some issues with the O2 sensors but there is finally a recall/service to fix this under warranty. Overall I am happy with mine.


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[parrothd]

Anything to be scared of with this motor?

Yes, the power.. Lol

[jason1973]

Yes, the power.. Lol

NOW that is what i want to hear!!!!

[larry_arizona]

Being a lifelong GM small block and LS engine user, I have been very impressed with the blue oval 6.2.

Power, quiet, excellent fuel economy.


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[dakota4ce]

NOW that is what i want to hear!!!!

Except it’s not super accurate from my experience...


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[Ryann]

2018 SL with 400 has been fantastic. Tons of power. We can go fully ballasted plus lead and still make it to wakeboard speeds. No issue for surf speeds at all.

Zero issues but only 55 hours so far.

[parrothd]

2018 SL with 400 has been fantastic. Tons of power. We can go fully ballasted plus lead and still make it to wakeboard speeds. No issue for surf speeds at all.

Zero issues but only 55 hours so far.

My only complaint is its loud even with a fresh air exhaust compared to the older models.

[dakota4ce]

My only complaint is its loud even with a fresh air exhaust compared to the older models.

I have discovered a half hour, $100 worth of Dynamat hood liner, and this problem gets largely solved.


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[parrothd]

I have discovered a half hour, $100 worth of Dynamat hood liner, and this problem gets largely solved.


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Thanks, I was thinking of something along those lines. Did you cover all sides or just the top?

[jason1973]

what is dynamat and where would you put it?

[larry_arizona]

Although it could be louder than an LS, in a 18Supra SA with surf pipe, the noise is quiet enough to hold a conversation from driver to passenger seats at WOT.

I don’t hear much engine noise at all, mostly hull hitting water.

Certainly noise is not even a concern if you can talk within the cabin and your surf and wake riders can hear the tunes good.

My understanding is the Supra engine walls are much thicker plus carpeted. Trust me, my wife would bitch if it was loud.


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[parrothd]

Although it could be louder than an LS, in a 18Supra SA with surf pipe, the noise is quiet enough to hold a conversation from driver to passenger seats at WOT.

I don’t hear much engine noise at all, mostly hull hitting water.

Certainly noise is not even a concern if you can talk within the cabin and your surf and wake riders can hear the tunes good.


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Amazon Dynamat, self stick noise insulation sheets. Probably just under the engine cover and if you install some between the engine and bench seat.

[dakota4ce]

I put it on the side locker walls and I put it on the bottom side of the top cover. Also another key area —pull up the transmission and Vdrive cover panel and do the underside of that. In my 2016 there was room to put it on the forward firewall, but in my new one that is all carpeted already.

I used the “hoodliner” product.


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[dakota4ce]

My understanding is the Supra engine walls are much thicker plus carpeted. Trust me, my wife would bitch if it was loud.


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There really is no difference in the “wall thickness” of anything—my Moomba and Supra have nearly identical construction.


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[KnoxMojo]

There really is no difference in the “wall thickness” of anything—my Moomba and Supra have nearly identical construction.


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Your Makai is built more like the Supra as far as the engine bay and panels are concerned. Get inside the Mojo and all the other models and you'll notice that the divider panels and the such are thinner. But I still had no issue with our Mojo running an FAE, the Supra is even better. And I agree, a bit of Amazon peel and stick sound deadening will go a long way, plus it's extra ballast, lol.

[PuraVida]

I was in a makai last week and it seemed quieter than my 16 mojo. They must have made some improvements somewhere.


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[dakota4ce]

For one thing it’s a lot deeper boat. It’s built just like the max. The motor is clear down below the top deck of the boat. I think that contributes a lot to the noise reduction?


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[PuraVida]

For one thing it’s a lot deeper boat. It’s built just like the max. The motor is clear down below the top deck of the boat. I think that contributes a lot to the noise reduction?


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Do you have a new makai? Or did you just test one?


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[dakota4ce]

Have-


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[PuraVida]

Congrats! They are sick.

How much ballast are you running? I was underwhelmed with the surf wave at full stock ballast and 925lbs of people/lead. We messed around a lot with speed and tab settings but couldn’t get much push beyond 10.7mph, plate all the way up, and the surf tab at 40%. I am hoping someone knows how much weight is needed to get a “great” wave. Don’t get me wrong, the wave was surf-able, but I need to go faster and have more push to get decent airs. The makai is huge and I suspect it will need a lot of weight.


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[dakota4ce]

Most I have had is full factory and 2100# lead with 4 adults. That was very very good. I am awaiting the wakemakers 1500-1600 upgrade sacks. They will be perfect. I think then I can leave 1000# in the boat all the time.

The 460 doesn’t care at all about the weight. Ridiculous motor with reduction. 16x16.25 prop on it now.


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[PuraVida]

Most I have had is full factory and 2100# lead with 4 adults. That was very very good. I am awaiting the wakemakers 1500-1600 upgrade sacks. They will be perfect. I think then I can leave 1000# in the boat all the time.

The 460 doesn’t care at all about the weight. Ridiculous motor with reduction. 16x16.25 prop on it now.


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This gets me excited! Thanks for the info.


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[Rjaeger13]

Most I have had is full factory and 2100# lead with 4 adults. That was very very good. I am awaiting the wakemakers 1500-1600 upgrade sacks. They will be perfect. I think then I can leave 1000# in the boat all the time.

The 460 doesn’t care at all about the weight. Ridiculous motor with reduction. 16x16.25 prop on it now.


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I have demo'd the Makai with 400 and 450 Raptors. i didn't see much of a performance difference.... the 400 actually seemed to perform better running lower RPMs. My question is how will it run with 6k ballast?? I can't justify spending 7k for the motor upgrade, but it's insane to me that i need 6k+ to get a good surf wave out of that boat. LOT'S of modifying to get it to function the way you want..... Did you move all the lead to the rear? what RPMs are you running with that much weight? The upgraded bags from wakemakers will require the removal of the rear locker trays. what will you do for this?

[dakota4ce]

I have demo'd the Makai with 400 and 450 Raptors. i didn't see much of a performance difference.... the 400 actually seemed to perform better running lower RPMs. My question is how will it run with 6k ballast?? I can't justify spending 7k for the motor upgrade, but it's insane to me that i need 6k+ to get a good surf wave out of that boat. LOT'S of modifying to get it to function the way you want..... Did you move all the lead to the rear? what RPMs are you running with that much weight? The upgraded bags from wakemakers will require the removal of the rear locker trays. what will you do for this?

They probably had different props on them....for starters. Of course you could make them behave like that. Don’t forget the 400 has 1.5:1 trans too. It’s not a one variable situation.

Lots of modifying? It needs more weight. Can you surf it stock? Sure. Have at it. But I want it to be massive. I am coming from a slammed 2016 SE. Also added weight to that one. Lots of weight.

I don’t give a rip of the rear lockers are gone personally. In every boat they’re gone if you’re slamming it. The Makai still has silly storage with its hidden side bags and underfloor belly bag. I also had thought of shortening my stock locker tubs after the new sacks go in, to make more of a tray configuration. For ropes or whatnot. I kept nothing but lead in the stock tubs anyway. I will just see.

Most of the lead will rest rearish-midship with the WM bags.

460 ran 3700 or so RPM with 2100# of lead and 3 adults w/ a 16-16.25 prop. The 400 would not even sniff getting that to surf speed. The 460 with the 1.76 pulls an incredible amount harder than the 400/1.5 would. I had a 2016SE with a 440/1.5 for comparison. That motor had a definite and frustrating limit at times with a big crew. Small crew it was fine—maxed but fine at 1300’.

Physics are physics. There are NO magic shortcuts. In a Makai you have an SE-sized floating hull that weighs 1000# less than an SE. it’s a light, huge, relatively hollow boat. If you’re going to sink that to awesome surf depths, it’s gonna take weight. Weight weight weight.

It’s easier to get a great surf wave out of a shorter boat. They’re easier to sink. See the Max as an example. BUT, if you go to measures to sink a bigger boat similarly deep, the end result will be better (longer wave). But it can only be achieved with weight. Makai is light for its size. That has to be made up for.


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[dakota4ce]

If should also be stated that you could throw a 1000# lead into a stock Makai with a 400 and have a riot. The wave will be very good. It won’t be incredible, but will be very good. If that’s ok for you, then you’re in business.

But if you’re looking for top 3% stuff, the 460 is necessary equipment to go with the weight.

You will have a damn near 2019 SE surf experience on 2/3 the spend. And nothing at the 100k price point will touch it.


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[MJHSupra]

What’s the upgrade price on the 460?

All the boats I see online are the smaller motor.


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[dakota4ce]

6-7k I think? Unsure exactly. It also has the 1.72:1 trans and that’s really the key ingredient.


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[larry_arizona]

What’s the upgrade price on the 460?

All the boats I see online are the smaller motor.


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Moomba $7150
Supra $8400

The Supra tax is strong......lol


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[TXSurf4]

So I am in the process of ordering my Makai (have to lock everything in before the end of the year for the Febuary build date) and I have had this very concern about the 400 vs the 450. I brought this point up with my dealer and they suggested that we hit the water again with the boat and load it up. Their boat has the 400 with the wake prop upgrade (OJ 945 15x13). We ran the boat with 6545# of total ballast/displacement, I was wanting to go to 7500# to see how it would handle it but we didn't have access to any additional ballast in the time frame we had to get it done in and apparently I need more friends ;) LOL.

Our ballast/displacement was as follows: 4,000# standard ballast, 1100# lead, and 7 people @ 1445# = Total 6545#

Also to be noted we are in Houston, Texas so elevation is a non factor


To test the motor we ran the boat with Autowake OFF so that we would retain all of the ballast and not dump any. We ran the boat from 10.5 MPH to 12.5 MPH to see if there was any change in RPMs and @ 10.5 MPH the RPMs were 3400 steady!!! @ 12.5 MPH the RPM gauge flickered to 3500 twice but ran 3400 98% of the time so I called it 3450 RPMs (since the display does not show 50s).

If I am being honest I was pleasantly surprised at how the 400 performed with the weight. I would have loved to have seen how much the RPMs changed and how the 400 would have handled another 1K but I was happy to be able to get out and see how it did with that weight.

Now all of this being said if we were to keep throwing ballast in the boat there will definitely come a point where the 400 will not be able to over come the load and the 450 should be able to. The question is what is that limit and is it even worth considering? Unfortunately I wasn't able to find that limit on my trip but it is definitely not 6,545#.

So for the time being I have my boat spec'd with the 400 and feel good about it but I would be lying if I said I still don't have a little voice inside me saying "spring for the 450!!" LOL. I have asked my dealer what the cost is to upgrade and they said $6,321. While that is less than 10% of the overall cost for a Makai that money could go a long way in boards and mods!

[larry_arizona]

I would say at low altitudes, you would be hard pressed to run out of engine with the 400,

High altitudes is where the 450 might be required and the option of the SC575 starts to shine.


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[dakota4ce]

I would say at low altitudes, you would be hard pressed to run out of engine with the 400,

High altitudes is where the 450 might be required and the option of the SC575 starts to shine.


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There’s no 575 option.




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[dakota4ce]

So I am in the process of ordering my Makai (have to lock everything in before the end of the year for the Febuary build date) and I have had this very concern about the 400 vs the 450. I brought this point up with my dealer and they suggested that we hit the water again with the boat and load it up. Their boat has the 400 with the wake prop upgrade (OJ 945 15x13). We ran the boat with 6545# of total ballast/displacement, I was wanting to go to 7500# to see how it would handle it but we didn't have access to any additional ballast in the time frame we had to get it done in and apparently I need more friends ;) LOL.

Our ballast/displacement was as follows: 4,000# standard ballast, 1100# lead, and 7 people @ 1445# = Total 6545#

Also to be noted we are in Houston, Texas so elevation is a non factor


To test the motor we ran the boat with Autowake OFF so that we would retain all of the ballast and not dump any. We ran the boat from 10.5 MPH to 12.5 MPH to see if there was any change in RPMs and @ 10.5 MPH the RPMs were 3400 steady!!! @ 12.5 MPH the RPM gauge flickered to 3500 twice but ran 3400 98% of the time so I called it 3450 RPMs (since the display does not show 50s).

If I am being honest I was pleasantly surprised at how the 400 performed with the weight. I would have loved to have seen how much the RPMs changed and how the 400 would have handled another 1K but I was happy to be able to get out and see how it did with that weight.

Now all of this being said if we were to keep throwing ballast in the boat there will definitely come a point where the 400 will not be able to over come the load and the 450 should be able to. The question is what is that limit and is it even worth considering? Unfortunately I wasn't able to find that limit on my trip but it is definitely not 6,545#.

So for the time being I have my boat spec'd with the 400 and feel good about it but I would be lying if I said I still don't have a little voice inside me saying "spring for the 450!!" LOL. I have asked my dealer what the cost is to upgrade and they said $6,321. While that is less than 10% of the overall cost for a Makai that money could go a long way in boards and mods!

That’s great news. Worth the time to test. I have absolutely no idea how the RPMS would stay the same from 10.5-12.5 mph. Did I read that right?


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[dakota4ce]

I haven’t counted people weight before. I have run 2100 lbs of additional ballast plus 4 people on the 450 and it runs 3700 or so rpm. And it’s starting to work hard. I suppose we were someplace around 7000 total weight.

One thing to note and consider—to make the primo surf wave, the boat has to be at 9.5 degrees nose high and 3-4 degrees list with 20 or less of center plate(preferably zero), and 50 or so of surf plate (40-50 seems ideal).

Depending on how you have that weight in the boat, what attitude/angles you’re running at, and how much center plate/surf plate you’re using , the load on the motor can vary drastically at the same loading.

In other words, I could probably put 8000# in a boat and get it to run “easy” if the weight and plates were arranged as such to allow that.

If you were able to get these results under ideal pitch/roll/plates for primo surfing, then you’re golden. But I still have no idea how the RPMS would not change in 2 mph? That’s wild.


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[TXSurf4]

That’s great news. Worth the time to test. I have absolutely no idea how the RPMS would stay the same from 10.5-12.5 mph. Did I read that right?


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They didn't stay the same as it did flicker to 3500 a few times @ 12.5 but never stayed there where as @ 10.5 it stayed at 3400 the entire time. Due to the lack of precision of the RPM Gauge (showing increments of 100 vs 50) I assumed it to be 3450 but I guess it could have been 3499 the whole time.... There was no way to really tell unless there is another screen that shows it more precisely that i missed which is very possible.

[dakota4ce]

I would consider 3400-3499 for all practical purposes “no change.”


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[dakota4ce]

They didn't stay the same as it did flicker to 3500 a few times @ 12.5 but never stayed there where as @ 10.5 it stayed at 3400 the entire time. Due to the lack of precision of the RPM Gauge (showing increments of 100 vs 50) I assumed it to be 3450 but I guess it could have been 3499 the whole time.... There was no way to really tell unless there is another screen that shows it more precisely that i missed which is very possible.

By the way I have not found that screen. I think you’re just stuck with a rough guess on the RPMs.


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[TXSurf4]

One thing to note and consider—to make the primo surf wave, the boat has to be at 9.5 degrees nose high and 3-4 degrees list with 20 or less of center plate(preferably zero), and 50 or so of surf plate (40-50 seems ideal).

Depending on how you have that weight in the boat, what attitude/angles you’re running at, and how much center plate/surf plate you’re using , the load on the motor can vary drastically at the same loading.

In other words, I could probably put 8000# in a boat and get it to run “easy” if the weight and plates were arranged as such to allow that.


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So when we did the "loaded" test we did use Flow 2.0 set to port side surfing. Then we did turn Autowake on with Flow 2.0 and I jumped in the nippy 55Deg water to give it a go and the boat did pump off a little ballast (less than 10% @ the bow & starboard side) to achieve Ideal pitch and roll. Me jumping out also took 230# out of the stern on the port side. With the speed set to 10.8 the boat was running 3400 RPM as well. Now I wasn't behind the wheel so I am not sure if it was bouncing to 35 or 33 at any point in the runs but my buddy said everything he saw was 3400.

I do understand and completely agree with your point that a boat can be manipulated to run "easier" due to ballast placement moving the CG. I was doing my best to put the weight (my friends) in place so that the boat would retain as much ballast as possible and still achieve the right angles.

[parrothd]

Don't forget you can reprop too, your demo may have had the standard prop or the upgraded prop. I only surf so I don't care about top end.

[dakota4ce]

His motor is actually turning at very very low rpm given the situation. His prop is potentially too good....[emoji1743]*[emoji3603]


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[parrothd]

His motor is actually turning at very very low rpm given the situation. His prop is potentially too good....[emoji1743]*[emoji3603]


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Until he adds another 1000+lbs.. :)

[TXSurf4]

So after a few days of discussing my demo off line with dakota4ce and sending him some footage from it I do agree that something was off with my test in the RPMs showing very little change between speeds. The only things that make sense are that the boat had the smart plate at or near 100% or we lost a good bit of ballast none of which I feel was done on purpose. That being said the smart plate seems most likely to me as we did take to the boat to wake board speeds and i know it took a lot of smart plate to make that happen. Not being behind the wheel at the time I am not sure where the smart plate was as far as percentages go and that seems to be the one variable that I did not think to control and was simply just an oversight on my part. I have tried to edit/delete my previous post as I do not want to mislead anyone but for some reason I am unable to. So if you read this thread and make it this far please take my previous post with a grain of salt knowing that there was one variable that I was not monitoring and it most likely had a huge impact on the load placed on the motor and how it acted.

Full discolure I have placed my order for my Makai and ended up spec'ing it with the 450 not because I think the 400 wouldn't do the job, that motor is awesome, but purely because I have a large family that all love to be on the boat at once and I feel like the 1.76:1 transmission will be a huge asset to me over the long haul with this boat. A big thanks to dakota4ce for all his knowledge and help!

[RC_Hinojosa]

So after a few days of discussing my demo off line with dakota4ce and sending him some footage from it I do agree that something was off with my test in the RPMs showing very little change between speeds. The only things that make sense are that the boat had the smart plate at or near 100% or we lost a good bit of ballast none of which I feel was done on purpose. That being said the smart plate seems most likely to me as we did take to the boat to wake board speeds and i know it took a lot of smart plate to make that happen. Not being behind the wheel at the time I am not sure where the smart plate was as far as percentages go and that seems to be the one variable that I did not think to control and was simply just an oversight on my part. I have tried to edit/delete my previous post as I do not want to mislead anyone but for some reason I am unable to. So if you read this thread and make it this far please take my previous post with a grain of salt knowing that there was one variable that I was not monitoring and it most likely had a huge impact on the load placed on the motor and how it acted.

Full discolure I have placed my order for my Makai and ended up spec'ing it with the 450 not because I think the 400 wouldn't do the job, that motor is awesome, but purely because I have a large family that all love to be on the boat at once and I feel like the 1.76:1 transmission will be a huge asset to me over the long haul with this boat. A big thanks to dakota4ce for all his knowledge and help!

Congrats on your order and welcome to the SC family!! Share a rendering if ya got one!

***David/Dusty, spill the beans....do we have dates yet for the 2019 Texas Jam??

[dakota4ce]

This boat will be sick! It will be almost impossible to overload, and will just keep giving you more wave.

I know at 2100# additional over stock and 4 people it had PLENTY of power left. It would be epic to fill that hog up with folks and make a tsunami.

Maybe bring your credit card for some more gas at that point but worth every penny. [emoji1787]

Concerts on the boat. It’s such a damn good solid machine!


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[TXSurf4]

Thanks fellas! And thanks again for all of your help dakota4ce!

My family and I are really looking forward to it! It is going to be a long 3 months! hahaha

Here she is!

https://i.imgur.com/AWSZ4pM.jpg

[RC_Hinojosa]

Thanks fellas! And thanks again for all of your help dakota4ce!

My family and I are really looking forward to it! It is going to be a long 3 months! hahaha

Here she is!

https://i.imgur.com/AWSZ4pM.jpg

She'll be a sexy bae! I'd get that Raspberry Flake on the REV cans and have Rinker's do the tint through Solar Reflections (They take the glass out and do it the right way). Congrats again!

[Prospersigman]

***David/Dusty, spill the beans....do we have dates yet for the 2019 Texas Jam??[/QUOTE]

Who is Dusty...is he even still around?:confused:

[TXSurf4]

She'll be a sexy bae! I'd get that Raspberry Flake on the REV cans and have Rinker's do the tint through Solar Reflections (They take the glass out and do it the right way). Congrats again!

Ya I am seriously considering matching the Rev10s. Can they match with the flake?

I think I am going to do the motor break in and run it for a day or 2 and then when I put it in for the 20hr service if I want the tint do it then. How did it turn out on yours? I have seen the pictures of how it looks and it is sweet but nothing up close to show how well they went back in with the glass.

[RC_Hinojosa]

Ya I am seriously considering matching the Rev10s. Can they match with the flake?

I think I am going to do the motor break in and run it for a day or 2 and then when I put it in for the 20hr service if I want the tint do it then. How did it turn out on yours? I have seen the pictures of how it looks and it is sweet but nothing up close to show how well they went back in with the glass.

They can match the flake. I wanna say Rinker's put the Ultra Blue flake accents on David's wheels.

Check out Solar Reflections on Instagram, they just did a black & red SE for Rinker's and posted vids of the before, during and after process. Rinker's trusts them with removed curved glass on six figure boats, go for it bruh.

[TXSurf4]

They can match the flake. I wanna say Rinker's put the Ultra Blue flake accents on David's wheels.

Check out Solar Reflections on Instagram, they just did a black & red SE for Rinker's and posted vids of the before, during and after process. Rinker's trusts them with removed curved glass on six figure boats, go for it bruh.

I will have to talk to them about matching them then.

Wow the tint looks great!! I am assuming that they can do different percentages? I am just not sure how dark I will want to go but I know on all Black the darker the better lol I am going to start a thread in the Pride and Joy are as I am not trying to High Jack this thread more than we have lol. Ill post the boat there and do any update. If you want fee free to reply over here https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?32287-2019-Moomba-Makai&p=334832#post334832

[Matt0520]

I put it on the side locker walls and I put it on the bottom side of the top cover. Also another key area —pull up the transmission and Vdrive cover panel and do the underside of that. In my 2016 there was room to put it on the forward firewall, but in my new one that is all carpeted already.

I used the “hoodliner” product.


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Do you guys have any pics of this done? Wondering how you applied it and left the edges to keep it looking clean?

Thx!

[RC_Hinojosa]

Do you guys have any pics of this done? Wondering how you applied it and left the edges to keep it looking clean?

Thx!Someone with a Max recently posted photos of them lining some pieces. Boonejeepin or MurderMax??

I have done the underside of my helm with Kilmat and plan on doing the Vdrive hump and engine compartment.

I used a hard plastic roller to apply. They sell a tape to cover the seams if appearance is a concern.



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[dakota4ce]

Do you guys have any pics of this done? Wondering how you applied it and left the edges to keep it looking clean?

Thx!

I really don’t. She’s deep in storage. Sorry! It’s not beautiful per se. Functional though!


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[Matt0520]

I really don’t. She’s deep in storage. Sorry! It’s not beautiful per se. Functional though!


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No worries I'm sure one will be posted up at some point. "Not beautiful" is what I usually yield when working on something lol, but yeah in this case its hidden and would serve its purpose either way. Wondering how long that adhesive will hold, I assume the underside of the compartments (where the adhesive sheets go) is fabric?