Question for the Stereoheads

[Sssprf4471]

Working with a good local audio shop, but still have some questions for those on here with experience. I currently have 2 Rev 10's and 6 in boat Kicker 6.5". They are underpowered from factory. So this is what changes I want to make and would like feedback.

Keep 6 Kicker 6.5's
Add 2 Rev 10's for a total of 4.
Add Fosgate P2D4-12 Sub in ported and Rhino lined custom box.
Add Fosgate Punch 1000x2 for 4 Rev 10's
Add Fosgate Punch 1000x5 for 6.5's and Sub
Add Fosgate Sub Knob Control

I am not asking for pricing feedback. I really want feedback if amps listed are adequate for speakers listed. Audio shop says yes. I still want feedback before pulling the trigger.

[MLA]

Nothing at all wrong those pairings. However, Id go with the D2 12" so you get the amp's 500W potential from the woofer chnl.

[KG's Supra24]

It's pretty light for what the zones could handle.

250w being on the lowest end of the Revs recommended power and 300w being a low powered 12".
Ideally you would be around 300-400w per Rev and 600w sub zone .... to come close to keeping pace with 4 Revs.

As far as I know, though, that requires going from 2 amps to 3, which may seem like a lot.

In regards to adequacy, it will work and be enjoyable but there is definitely lots of room on the table.

[Jeepers]

You can under power the kicker 6.5’s and they’ll still sound great. The REV 10’s will sound like shit if you under power them. The sub can be underpowered a little.

I think as stated above you’d be better off going with 3 amps. You can run all 6 of the kickers off a 400 watt amp. You won’t gain anything by running more watts than that. Going with 3 amps will be more efficient. No offense; but I’m not a big fan of Fosgate. They made great products in the early 90’s. I guarantee those Fosgate amps don’t produce the watts they’re advertising and they’re expensive.

Take a look at Exile Audio. Their equipment is as good if not better than wetsounds and their prices are very reasonable.
I’d run the REV 10’s off an EXILE XM30.2
They always have demo amps available at a discount. If they don’t list any demo’s on their website, give them a call and they’ll get you one. If want one hell of a sub, check out exile’s Big 12 DVC 2000 watt RMS, 4000 peak. I’m pretty the technology for that subwoofer was created by the Soviet Union during the Cold War for use as a weapon of mass destruction! [emoji23]

Just make sure you run min 12awg speaker to to the REV’s and Sub. The kicker’s you can use the stock wire that was run at factory. Run 0awg power and ground wire from the battery to the amps. And good quality RCA’s.

Many stereo shops like selling their customer on “mega” amps ~ i.e bragging rights: “mine’s bigger than yours.” The reality is; it limits your ability to expand, adapt or modify the system overtime. Most of those “mega” amps are power hogs and will clip if your really pushing them. In addition, they produce a lot of heat which is not good for the longevity of the Amp. Wetsounds and Exile are the exception when it comes to big amps. But again you loose the adaptability.

Just my 2 cents.

Keep us posted and share the final install pics!


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[MLA]

The REV 10’s will sound like shit if you under power them.


I’d run the REV 10’s off an EXILE XM30.2

@jeepers,

You do realize that the amp you just recommended, will only deliver 210W rms to each of the tower speakers? And the OP's original amp choice will deliver 250W rms to each tower speakers. Sadly, your suggestion is a step back.

And to KG's post about needing 3 amps. As noted already, the 1000.5 will deliver up to 500W rms to the correct woofer. There is no audible difference between 500 and 600 watt rms.

[KG's Supra24]

And to KG's post about needing 3 amps. As noted already, the 1000.5 will deliver up to 500W rms to the correct woofer. There is no audible difference between 500 and 600 watt rms.

Sure, but is it not a leap to think you will get a consistent 500w at 1 ohm and at varying voltage levels, on that amp?

I'd certainly defer to your experience as I have very little. It has been my understanding, though, it is tough to compare a 5th channel to a dedicated 600w amp for sub power. I've always seen the sub zone options in the following tiers:

1. Use a 5th channel and lower power handling sub (300-500)
2. Use a dedicated mid power level amp and sub (600-750)
3. Use a dedicated big power level amp and sub (1000-1500)

[MLA]

Sure, but is it not a leap to think you will get a consistent 500w at 1 ohm and at varying voltage levels, on that amp?

This would be applied equally to any amp at any safe/rated operating impedance, would you agree? In other words, if the 500W amp is going to not be constant for the above stated, then a 600W will also not be constant.


It has been my understanding, though, it is tough to compare a 5th channel to a dedicated 600w amp for sub power.

Most every 5 chnl amps are 2 amps in one chassis. A mono low-pass woofer amp and a 4 chnl full range amp. Absolutely no reason you can compare for example, a 500W rms mono to the 500W woofer chnl of a 5 chnl amp. Take another 5 chnl amp that delivers 400W and you can safely compare it to a 400W rms mono. As long as the company is known to be reliable with the rated specs, and I have never known Rockford to NOT be credible in the their advertised rated specs.

Since the woofer he is looking at is a 400 rms/800 peak, with a 500W amp, we are at 25% above the woofer's RMS. Nothing wrong with that at all.

Now, are there advantages to going with a higher output amp? Sure! More headroom always means the amp can be run a little more Conservative.

[KG's Supra24]

Agreed but does ohm load come into play?

500w at 1ohm is same as 500w at 4ohm? It's certainly possible that 500w is 500w but i thought it was a touch more complicated than that.

Put another way .... Are you saying that throughout a day on the lake i can get 500w consistently and as reliably at 1ohm in a 5 channel as i can running at 4ohms in a stand alone?

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[RC_Hinojosa]

I've always seen the sub zone options in the following tiers:

1. Use a 5th channel and lower power handling sub (300-500)
2. Use a dedicated mid power level amp and sub (600-750)
3. Use a dedicated big power level amp and sub (1000-1500)

Sssprf4471 , pony up for option 3 and don't look back. I have a REVO 12 XXX being pushed by a SYN-DX2.3 HP and this combo slams in my Craz.

[Jeepers]

@jeepers,

You do realize that the amp you just recommended, will only deliver 210W rms to each of the tower speakers? And the OP's original amp choice will deliver 250W rms to each tower speakers. Sadly, your suggestion is a step back.

And to KG's post about needing 3 amps. As noted already, the 1000.5 will deliver up to 500W rms to the correct woofer. There is no audible difference between 500 and 600 watt rms.


Not sure where you came up with 210W? Is he running 4 REV 10’s? The XM30.2 delivers 300W rms x 2 @ 4ohms which is conservative. Each exile amp is bench tested individually and comes with a certification stating the amps true output; which is always higher than their advertised output. If I missed that he is running 4 Rev10’s then you’re correct. In addition, I’d recommend he swap 2 of the REV 10’s out for a pair of icons. It’ll sound a hell of a lot better while surfing.

I guarantee the true output of any Fosgate amp is no more 75-80% of what they advertise. If you run that thing for any length of time close to max output; It will clip and over heat.

The point of running three amps is efficiency, power output consistency and heat reduction. In addition, you’ll get better tunability (if that’s a word)

I’ve got no stake in this horse race. I was providing an educated opinion on how I would build this system. At the end of the day the guy sitting in the captains chair is what’s important. My opinion is just that; my opinion.

If the goal is bragging rights: “I’ve got 1000W Amp!” Then that’s the way to go. If the goal is a great sounding system that will last a very long time and can be easily adapted to future expansion or modifications; then the 3 amp system is the way to go.

I just want the individual who asked for our input to be happy with final build.


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[KG's Supra24]

Not sure where you came up with 210W? Is he running 4 REV 10’s?


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Add 2 Rev 10's for a total of 4.



In addition, I’d recommend he swap 2 of the REV 10’s out for a pair of icons. It’ll sound a hell of a lot better while surfing.


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This certainly isn't the consensus on the forum to date.

Would the revs not completely drown the icons?



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[Jeepers]

If you surf the majority of the time; definitely go 2 Icons and 2 Rev10’s.

I sold my 4 REV10’s this Spring and replaced them with 4 Exile SXT9Q Surf speakers. Much happier with the sound quality. As they are not loud speakers, they’re not as loud at wake boarding distance or across the lake, but they sound 100% better while in and behind the boat surfing. Going 2x2 gives you the best of both worlds.

Just my opinion.


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[trayson]

I would echo KG's concerns. Going with a mis-match of HLCD's and surf speakers is something that the audio gurus on the forums have addressed before. Similar to going with something like a combo of rev8 and rev10. The bigger, louder speaker drowns out the other. You end up having the biggest HLCD walk all over whatever you're trying to pair it with.

In the case of Jeepers, going from all HLCD's to all Surf speakers is great, as it's maintaining a balance. But the mix and match approach tends not to be recommended from my understanding.

[MLA]

Agreed but does ohm load come into play?

500w at 1ohm is same as 500w at 4ohm? It's certainly possible that 500w is 500w but i thought it was a touch more complicated than that.

Put another way .... Are you saying that throughout a day on the lake i can get 500w consistently and as reliably at 1ohm in a 5 channel as i can running at 4ohms in a stand alone?

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Yes, ohms, or the woofer's impedance plays into it. Thats why I suggested the OP go with the dual 2 ohm over the dual 4 ohm he first listed. This gets him from 3ooW rms @ 2 ohm to 500W rms @ 1 ohm.

Keep in mind though, we are talking about an amp that designed as a 1 ohm stable amp. We not talking about strapping just any amp with any random woofer load. Rockford built the amp to be 1 ohm stable, so why not take the same woofer, just in a different coil configuration, and gain 200W rms.

As long as the amp is driving a safe impedance, then 500W is 500W. Put another way, 500W from a 1 ohm stable amp to a 1 ohm woofer is the same 500W to a 4 ohm woofer from an amp thats rated to deliver 500W @ 4 ohm. Now, thats the simple answer. We can dig deeper and say that a mono amp running at 4 ohm is running at a lesser load then a mono running at 1 ohm. Bust as noted earlier, we already have 25% rms headroom in there at 1 ohm.

[MLA]

Not sure where you came up with 210W? Is he running 4 REV 10’s? The XM30.2 delivers 300W rms x 2 @ 4ohms which is conservative.

Yes, he's running 2 pair. Boat currently has one pair, he's adding a 2nd. So each chnl will "see" a 2 ohm load. The amp's specs are 420 x 2 @ 2 ohm, so each speaker nets 210W rms.



I’d recommend he swap 2 of the REV 10’s out for a pair of icons.

Mixing HLCD and coaxials is smoke and mirros used by some, to tone down their harsh 8" HLCD. With a 10" HLCD and proper tuning, coaxials are not needed. Besides, its takes 2 additional amp chnls, additional speaker wire through the tower, etc. Then we get into the fact that an HLCD and coaxial do not play the same frequencies at the same amplitude, not to mention a 10" HLCD is just going to DOMINATE an 8" coaxial.

[KnoxMojo]

1 set of Rev 10s is more than enough for just about every application other than winning the who is loudest contest at a tie up. Revs sound great for wakeboarding or turn them down for surfing and enjoy the bass from the killer sub on the boat. My last boat had 2 XM9s, not a Rev10, but could not imagine 4 of them pounding me in the face while surfing. At any rate, these guys know their stuff, listen to them, have your system tuned and enjoy the jams.

[Jeepers]

I would echo KG's concerns. Going with a mis-match of HLCD's and surf speakers is something that the audio gurus on the forums have addressed before. Similar to going with something like a combo of rev8 and rev10. The bigger, louder speaker drowns out the other. You end up having the biggest HLCD walk all over whatever you're trying to pair it with.

In the case of Jeepers, going from all HLCD's to all Surf speakers is great, as it's maintaining a balance. But the mix and match approach tends not to be recommended from my understanding.

You have the ability to turn down/off the Loud speakers for surfing and turn up / on for wakeboarding or dj-ing boat party. Nothing gets drowned out. The right tool for the job at your fingertips.


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[KG's Supra24]

Yes, ohms, or the woofer's impedance plays into it. Thats why I suggested the OP go with the dual 2 ohm over the dual 4 ohm he first listed. This gets him from 3ooW rms @ 2 ohm to 500W rms @ 1 ohm.

If I didn't say it earlier, this was a very nice catch. Simple change for big improvement.

^^^ That should be the take away ... a benefit of getting free professional forum advice.


We can dig deeper and say that a mono amp running at 4 ohm is running at a lesser load then a mono running at 1 ohm. Bust as noted earlier, we already have 25% rms headroom in there at 1 ohm.

Clearly what I was after ... and could play into how the system plays throughout the day on the lake.

Ohm matching is key and getting him setup up at 1 ohm was a solid save. Gets out of Tier 1 but with a 400w RMS sub I'm not sure it gets to Tier 2, in the above scenarios.

[KG's Supra24]

1 set of Rev 10s is more than enough for just about every application

Properly powered, I agree 100%.

4+ properly powered Revs become overpowering if there isn't similar wattage coming from in-boat.

[Sssprf4471]

I appreciate the open feedback from each of you. I will be staying with just the 2 rev 10's I currently have and running them on the p1000x2. Changed the 12" to the 2ohm and will stick with the p1000x5 for that and 6.5's. Will see how I like them for the next year and make changes if I think I need more. Really just looking for a good clean sound in boat, floating and surf/wakeboard. No interest in competing. Can use that $ many other places. Dropping the boat off Monday morning for changes and will update when it is done.

[jmvotto]

If you surf the majority of the time; definitely go 2 Icons and 2 Rev10’s.

I sold my 4 REV10’s this Spring and replaced them with 4 Exile SXT9Q Surf speakers. Much happier with the sound quality. As they are not loud speakers, they’re not as loud at wake boarding distance or across the lake, but they sound 100% better while in and behind the boat surfing. Going 2x2 gives you the best of both worlds.

Just my opinion.


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You cant mix and match unless you have indiv speaker controls on the tower and separate amps.

2 Rev 10s are plenty but 4 look way cooler

[Jeepers]

True, true


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[russellsmojo]

4 rev 10’s look awesome. I have 2 and have been very happy with them. Get a surf pipe and turn down the set of 2 and you will be golden. Side note I have never banged my head on set of 2. Cannot say the same for set of 4.

And revo6 are the best surf speakers out there!


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[Sssprf4471]

Quick update. Went by stereo shop to work on tuning for my liking. Shop changed the amps from the fosgate punch series to the power series. Going to keep one of the existing amps and install circuit breaker in place of fuses. Box was built amazing and incorporated matching white vinyl over the rhino lining for an appealing look with sub in middle. Still have a few minor changes to make based on my feedback. I am looking forward to picking it up tomorrow and hitting the lake Saturday. It has been a great experience working with a very reputable shop that wants me 100% satisfied. I will post update with pics when done.

[Sssprf4471]

27710 Picked up the boat and it sounds great. Much cleaner and more powerful sound. Can't wait to hear it in the water. Pic is of the sub under helm.