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MGX
08-30-2018, 10:30 AM
Do you have your fill/drain hose towards the front or rear on your bags? Updated the pumps to reversible and plumbed the hoses to the front, thinking the rear would be better.

mmandley
08-30-2018, 11:13 PM
I have the Fill / drain to the back, the pump has no problem pushing water in, having the inlet in the rear allows the bag to drain better as it gets lower. If the pumps loose prime during draining the bag wont drain all the way.

I have the Vent on the top opposite the fill side because as the bags fill that corner is highest in relation to how the boat sits.

chwags69
09-22-2018, 05:11 PM
Having a hard time getting the back ballast bags to drain all the way. It isn't a timing issue. I thought I read on a previous post (can't find), that people added something to the pump or line to help drain the bags. Suggestions?

Shoebox
09-23-2018, 12:17 PM
Having a hard time getting the back ballast bags to drain all the way. It isn't a timing issue. I thought I read on a previous post (can't find), that people added something to the pump or line to help drain the bags. Suggestions?I put ball valves in the vent line, open when filling til they spill out the port, then close them. Keeps them from continuing to siphon out the vent, and when draining they drain completely with no air at all in the bag.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180923/4961ad3f253146dbb45a38e2508f15d8.jpg

chwags69
09-23-2018, 03:30 PM
Thanks Shoebox! Do you recall where you got them?

MLA
09-23-2018, 04:16 PM
A quality marine check valve in the vent line will aid on a more complete drain. Totally passive, no opening locker to do anything for fill or drain.

996scott
09-23-2018, 06:47 PM
check valves work great.

Shoebox
09-23-2018, 06:58 PM
A quality marine check valve in the vent line will aid on a more complete drain. Totally passive, no opening locker to do anything for fill or drain.I have check valves from Wakemakers. They work very marginally. And they don't stop the bag continuing to siphon water over the side.

I open the locker to verify the bags are full anyway. Easy to turn a valve when they are.

Shoebox
09-23-2018, 06:58 PM
Thanks Shoebox! Do you recall where you got them?Home Depot

https://www.homedepot.com/p/LEGEND-VALVE-1-in-PVC-Threaded-FPT-x-FPT-Ball-Valve-T-601/203581023

https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-in-Blue-Twister-Polypropylene-Insert-x-MPT-ABTMA1/300823617

MLA
09-23-2018, 07:37 PM
I have check valves from Wakemakers. They work very marginally. And they don't stop the bag continuing to siphon water over the side.

I open the locker to verify the bags are full anyway. Easy to turn a valve when they are.

Sorry to hear, my customers do not experience this with our check valves.

Birdman
09-25-2018, 09:05 PM
I have check valves from Wakemakers. They work very marginally. And they don't stop the bag continuing to siphon water over the side.

I open the locker to verify the bags are full anyway. Easy to turn a valve when they are.

Double this for the price I could have gotten a few from the local hardware store that worked as well


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Shoebox
09-25-2018, 09:13 PM
Sorry to hear, my customers do not experience this with our check valves.Which check valves do you use?

MLA
09-25-2018, 09:32 PM
The Bosworth (sold by wake makers) check valves are a rubber flapper style. They are prone to staying open because the rubber flapper learns some muscle memory. If there is direct positive flow against it, it will seat the flapper. if we are trying to just stop some passive drain pressure, it will flow right past that slightly cracked open rubber flapper.

MLA
09-25-2018, 09:42 PM
They are not flapper or plunger type. Ive tested ever marine and many non-marine valves over the past 12 years.

Shoebox
09-25-2018, 11:29 PM
They won't stop passive drain, regardless of which check valve it is, because the flow direction is from the bag out the vent. However, they don't do much when emptying the bag to keep air from flowing back into it from the vent. I still got a lot of air back into the bag - until I installed the ball valves.

And you still didn't say which valves you use that work so well.

dakota4ce
09-26-2018, 08:25 AM
Perhaps you’re mounting them backward? I don’t understand your comment. I am not sure why you want zero air back into the bag on draining...

I think he is saying that they will stop passive drain.....or there would be no reason to use them.

I believe Mike has a valve that is working for him. Mike has a crapload of experience more than any one of us yokels in this department, therefore I am inclined to believe what he says. He would have no incentive to make a false claim in this arena, since he installs ballast and sound for a living....

What valve it is? Not sure. Mike can answer that.

As far as the WM valves, I know some folks have good luck. I found them a little inconsistent on their release, so I just removed them to be safe. Certainly not a complete indictment of them, just what I decided to do.


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Shoebox
09-26-2018, 08:59 AM
Perhaps you’re mounting them backward? I don’t understand your comment. I am not sure why you want zero air back into the bag on draining...

I think he is saying that they will stop passive drain.....or there would be no reason to use them.If you are mounting them such that they stop passive draining, you are also not allowing them to vent, and may as well just cap the vent port on the bag and not use it. They should be mounted to allow flow overboard, or they are useless. The only reason to use one at all is to stop the air from backfilling the bag and allow a more complete drain.


I believe Mike has a valve that is working for him. Mike has a crapload of experience more than any one of us yokels in this department, therefore I am inclined to believe what he says. He would have no incentive to make a false claim in this arena, since he installs ballast and sound for a living....

What valve it is? Not sure. Mike can answer that.I didn't accuse him of lying. He implied he used a superior valve, and I asked what valve that was. He didn't answer the first time, so I asked again.

dakota4ce
09-26-2018, 09:09 AM
Huh.......ok. I personally would primarily use check valves to prevent passive draining of a full bag. Since it directly impacts the surf experience in a negative way.

I don’t think anyone ever used them back in the day before bags got so big?

I get the best drain possible by running the drain pumps while the boat is nose high.

I guess Mike can speak for himself! He knows his doo doo.


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Shoebox
09-26-2018, 09:15 AM
Huh.......ok. I personally would primarily use check valves to prevent passive draining of a full bag. Since it directly impacts the surf experience in a negative way.

I don’t think anyone ever used them back in the day before bags got so big?

I get the best drain possible by running the drain pumps while the boat is nose high.

I guess Mike can speak for himself! He knows his doo doo.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHow do your bags vent then?

dakota4ce
09-26-2018, 09:28 AM
The check valves are designed to release at a little bit higher pressure point than the water exerts. From what I understand. So they’ll release with air but they will not release with water.

I guess I’m wrong possibly?


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MLA
09-26-2018, 09:39 AM
However, they don't do much when emptying the bag to keep air from flowing back into it from the vent. I still got a lot of air back into the bag -

This is the exact scenario I described earlier, that some experience with the Bosworth (again, sold by wake makers) one way check valve.


They won't stop passive drain, regardless of which check valve it is, because the flow direction is from the bag out the vent.

Absolutely correct, with a flapper style like the Bosworth valve. However, we have had great success stopping passive drain in the vent line. We have even had good results using them in the drain line on aerator system, so reduce passive draining from a pour to a trickle.

@ Shoebox,

You still got some season left? What size is your vent line? Ill send you a couple to try if you like. PM me your address.

Shoebox
09-26-2018, 09:43 AM
The check valves are designed to release at a little bit higher pressure point than the water exerts. From what I understand. So they’ll release with air but they will not release with water.

I guess I’m wrong possibly?


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Air may be able to escape a bit against a closed valve because air molecules are smaller than water, but regardless, you could pop a bag or fitting if you had check valves installed to stop water flowing overboard.

If the valve is spring-loaded, I guess it could stop passive drain once the bag is no longer completely full (i.e., under pressure). I'm fairly certain my check valves are not spring-loaded. That's why I ask which valves MLA uses.

Even with that type of valve, the bag won't remain completely full, because there is quite a bit of pressure in a truly full bag, and would drain overboard until pressure equalizes.

Shoebox
09-26-2018, 09:45 AM
@ Shoebox,

You still got some season left? What size is your vent line? Ill send you a couple to try if you like. PM me your address.We have dry suits, so we'll be hitting it through October. [emoji106] I'd be interested to try them. I'll send you a PM.

dakota4ce
09-26-2018, 09:47 AM
I’m just telling you what the stated purpose of the wakemakers check valve is. I believe they are spring-loaded in some capacity. And are inserted to prevent passive draining during a surfing session.

I think a check valve to you is more about draining after a session then it is preventing passive draining while the bag is full.

Nevertheless, I did find some inconsistency in their ability to release and removed them.

Again, I could be dead wrong!


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dakota4ce
09-26-2018, 09:51 AM
And, by the way, if I am dead wrong I apologize! [emoji51]


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Shoebox
09-26-2018, 09:59 AM
I’m just telling you what the stated purpose of the wakemakers check valve is. I believe they are spring-loaded in some capacity. And are inserted to prevent passive draining during a surfing session.

I think a check valve to you is more about draining after a session then it is preventing passive draining while the bag is full.

Nevertheless, I did find some inconsistency in their ability to release and removed them.

Again, I could be dead wrong!


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI was curious, because I had never read the Wakemakers description of their valves. Interestingly, anti-siphoning via the vent is not listed as a possible application. They have an anti-siphoning loop for that, but you have to have room in your locker above the bag for those to work.

I'm going to have to take one apart when I get home to see how they're designed to work.

Shoebox
09-26-2018, 10:00 AM
And, by the way, if I am dead wrong I apologize! [emoji51]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSame here. I'm actually enjoying the discussion.

dakota4ce
09-26-2018, 10:18 AM
I was curious, because I had never read the Wakemakers description of their valves. Interestingly, anti-siphoning via the vent is not listed as a possible application. They have an anti-siphoning loop for that, but you have to have room in your locker above the bag for those to work.

I'm going to have to take one apart when I get home to see how they're designed to work.

The valves that were included with my hoses aren’t listed online as a separate item.....interestingly. They came with the vent line upgrade kit.

So we have an apples to oranges dealio going as well...


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Shoebox
09-26-2018, 10:24 AM
The valves that were included with my hoses aren’t listed online as a separate item.....interestingly. They came with the vent line upgrade kit.

So we have an apples to oranges dealio going as well...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[emoji23] Do you have a pic of your valves?

This is the mess that was attached to my IBS system when I bought the boat, the kit that the prior owners got from Wakemakers. I cut most of that crap out and moved the check valves to the locker vent lines. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180926/520dd737e018cc27047b74a8cc00819c.jpg

MLA
09-26-2018, 10:57 AM
Could not put my hands on an actual Bosworth, even though im sure I have one here somewhere. I do have one that works on the same principal. 2 plastic halves with a rubber gasket between them, with a flapper cut about 90% around. No mechanical parts at all in them. They simply work when there is a back pressure against the flapper.

These flapper types can close under vacuum, closing off the sac vent while draining. However, over time and use, the flapper can get a little muscle memory so to speak, and hang slightly open. When this happens, a slight vacuum when draining, may not be enough to seat the valve, allowing air in to the sac.

27696

27697

Shoebox
09-26-2018, 11:00 AM
I'm sure that's what's happening with mine. So essentially they're worthless, hence the ball valves.

MLA
09-26-2018, 11:06 AM
Interestingly, anti-siphoning via the vent is not listed as a possible application.

With any check valve, it would be an unconventional application. We tried it and have been using them for this. So not only do we get a more complete drain, we have addresses some passive draining.

MLA
09-26-2018, 11:06 AM
I'm sure that's what's happening with mine. So essentially they're worthless, hence the ball valves.

If you take then apart, flip the gasket 180 and they will work again, for awhile.

Shoebox
09-29-2018, 01:33 PM
MLA sent me a couple of his check valves. They are very slick, and work much better than the Wakemakers valves. The WM valves require quite a bit of pressure to close the valve and prevent backflow. MLA's do not. I'll be giving them a test next week hopefully.

MLA
10-02-2018, 09:18 AM
Looking forward to hearing your experience with them. let us know after you get a few trips with them.

MLA
10-30-2018, 09:48 AM
Any update on the check valves?

Shoebox
10-30-2018, 10:33 AM
I didn't get them installed before the end of the season. They'll be on before the spring though.

MLA
03-16-2019, 10:54 AM
@Shoebox

Has the ice thawed?

Shoebox
03-16-2019, 12:08 PM
@Shoebox

Has the ice thawed?Hmm... Nope. [emoji24]https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190316/0c7e1e338a83950b95f1f00d0e8b007b.jpg