Cant drop the rope with upgraded 1140s

[Karl]

Just upgraded my rear bags to 1140s. Still have factory bow tank, manual surf tabs. Tried various speeds, wake plate adjustments, still can drop the rope. Any suggestions? Shouldnt this be enough weight?
Thanks

[Stazi]

What speed are you running? Are you able to surf ropeless on any other boat?

If not and you are still learning to surf, I can tell you that foot placement on the board is HUGELY important. Your front foot, especially, should be placed close to the toe side edge of the board. Also your weight should be over your front knee.

Most new riders ride a surfboard like a wakeboard with their weight on their back foot and depend entirely on being pulled by the rope.

You need to be able to ride by the push of the wave only,

Would help to have pics and video (especially) of your wave both with and without you riding on it.

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[fordbrent1]

I run 1140s in the back I also do a bow bag with 1000 lbs in the front and a 750 under the surf side. It works well if I have 1 or 2 ppl sit on that side as well. When I added bow weight I was able to drop the rope, prior to that it was pretty tough.

We surf with the manual tab in the lowest position, 11.4-11.7 gives me the most push. A lot of ppl run slower than that. I clean up the face with the trim.



2015
Moomba
Mojo

[Karl]

Ive varied speed from about 10 to 11.5. Have not surfed before, but have friend that has and he has issues too. Im in the sweet spot, as rope gets slack briefly, but quickly loose the slack. Do I really need another 1k lbs to surf? No pics, sorry.

[fordbrent1]

I was thinking the same way you were. I tried everything until I added more bow weight and it was like bam right away.

I wished I had done it sooner. I got the tip from a guy on here.

2015
Moomba
Mojo

[crazy888smokey]

what board are you using ?
I thought weight was the answer & I tried "another board" -& it is ALOT faster , which in turn gave me a lot of push
I am 6'2 230

[Karl]

My board is on the larger end, its a Cwb ride, 5'2. Im about 190lbs. Really didnt want bags on seat, floor. Guess thats gonna be the only option though.

[Stazi]

That CWB board sux. Sorry but it’s the truth. You should look at another more buoyant (surf style) and faster board.

I’m 6’2” and 210 and the CWB Ride is a board I would basically need to hang 5 on to stay in the pocket.

Look for a large sleek surf board something like a Phase 5 Aku or a Inland Surfer Red Rocket. Something with fast lines, hard rails and some good rocker on it.

The board makes a huge difference especially when you a big guy like me. The Aku for me is like a Ferrari and one of my favorites. It is quite loose and very responsive, so it will be a big difference to what you have now.

If you can get pics at some point post them, otherwise it’s a crap shoot.




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[fordbrent1]

You ever ride the ronix powertail?

2015
Moomba
Mojo

[Stazi]

You ever ride the ronix powertail?

2015
Moomba
Mojo

My son has the kids version and he likes it. I haven’t ridden the adult one myself. It looks like it should be decent, but the Ronix Technora Lunatic looks like an exact copy of the Inland Surfer James Walker, and that board (the IS) that my buddy has, kicks ass!


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[KnoxMojo]

My board is on the larger end, its a Cwb ride, 5'2. Im about 190lbs. Really didnt want bags on seat, floor. Guess thats gonna be the only option though.

There is a reason most all the new boats in the Moomba line are coming with plumbed in bow bags. Do this, invite 6 to 8 adults out, sit 3 of them in the bow and the rest to the surf side. Fill your rears to about 3/4. Verify your speed using gps and use the bottom position on the surf tab, trim all the way up then tap down to clean it up, but not much. You will have a good wave. These boats are not meant to surf with 2 or 3 people, but if that is what you want to do, you have to add the ballast to even the boat out. All the other advice is good with boards and foot placement, but really, build your wave first then play with boards. Even my slowest Liquid Force Fish is fast on a powerful wave. Good luck!!

[fordbrent1]

There is a reason most all the new boats in the Moomba line are coming with plumbed in bow bags. Do this, invite 6 to 8 adults out, sit 3 of them in the bow and the rest to the surf side. Fill your rears to about 3/4. Verify your speed using gps and use the bottom position on the surf tab, trim all the way up then tap down to clean it up, but not much. You will have a good wave. These boats are not meant to surf with 2 or 3 people, but if that is what you want to do, you have to add the ballast to even the boat out. All the other advice is good with boards and foot placement, but really, build your wave first then play with boards. Even my slowest Liquid Force Fish is fast on a powerful wave. Good luck!!Karl, this is the guy that got me setup, he knows his stuff.

2015
Moomba
Mojo

[KnoxMojo]

Karl, this is the guy that got me setup, he knows his stuff.

2015
Moomba
Mojo

I am glad we got you figured out. It is a lot more fun when you're not struggling every time out to find that perfect wave. It is all a formula, the key is replicating it, and it sounds like you have done that.

[Karl]

Thanks for advice guys. We usually just have 3 of us, one being s kid. So we are running light. I will consider it all. Sounds like more bow weight best place to start. Just really didnt want bag on floor or seat....guess i could put under seat, but still gotta buy pump. Thanks again.

[KnoxMojo]

Thanks for advice guys. We usually just have 3 of us, one being s kid. So we are running light. I will consider it all. Sounds like more bow weight best place to start. Just really didnt want bag on floor or seat....guess i could put under seat, but still gotta buy pump. Thanks again.

Wakemakers has what is called an ibs, integrated bow sack. It goes under the bow seats. Call them, they will get you set up that it piggy backs off of your center tank and runs on the same switch. The tank fills, then the bag. Makes life so much easier.

[Sp8]

Another thing to check before spending more $$$ is the water depth. I didn’t think I saw it in your post. For us 10-12 feet we lose the push. 15 feet or deeper is preferred.


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[jcarter20]

Wakemakers has what is called an ibs, integrated bow sack. It goes under the bow seats. Call them, they will get you set up that it piggy backs off of your center tank and runs on the same switch. The tank fills, then the bag. Makes life so much easier.

Yep, this option is the only way to go. No bags on the seat or floor. Wakemakers is awesome to work with. They have all the goods to get you set up.


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[Stazi]

Another thing to check before spending more $$$ is the water depth. I didn’t think I saw it in your post. For us 10-12 feet we lose the push. 15 feet or deeper is preferred.


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Yes!!! Great point. Under 15’ and the wave is basically nonexistent.


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[Isaguel]

I have to second Stazi, I have the IS James Walker and its a great board.
One thing to mention when surfing is when wanting to get forward push, you need to lean forward, meaning, shift your hips forward, not just piush down on your front foot. Many people lean back and push down on the forward foot and complain they cant get push. I was surfing with my brother in law in his Mastercraft a couple days ago and the same thing. I could see him in the rear view mirror, his body and hips were leaning back but he kept telling me he was pushing down on front foot, could not let go of rope. No matter how many times I told him to shift his hips forward, he just could not do it. He is a snowboarder and naturally going down hill your instinct is to lean back and he just could not get it.

Maintain an erect athletic comfortable stance, no need to squat, slight comfortable bend of the knees, shift your hips/pelvis forward and you'll get it.

[SorryCharlie]

I have a 2015 Mojo and thanks to Knox I was able to dial it in. I fill port full, bow bag about 50% (fill the middle full) and starboard 50%. I also bought some 500lb bags, one full on port seat (rear) and one full in the floor port. That adds another 1000lbs. The Mojo needs weight. You have to list the boat some. It took me 1 full season to get it dialed in. Weight, weight, weight. When we have extra people, they sit port rear to list some more. We all surf regular not goofy.

I didn't add any lead weights because I have to trailer my boat and boatmate didn't recommend it.

[crazy888smokey]

I ride this

https://www.evo.com/wakesurf-boards/ronix-potbelly-rocket-naked-board



https://vimeo.com/246350361

get it from EVO ,now at $519.oo
It has the push you need

[Karl]

Sounds like it simply comes down to weight...so ill look into the ibs. Was hoping not to dtop more money since i just upgraded, but seems like only way. Weve been trying in about 30ft of water. And im putting weight on front foot, had friend try to that surfs. Id like smaller board like those mentioned, but feel like its weight issue. Figured 2700 lbs would do it.....
Thanks again guys for the advise.

[Shoebox]

I ride this

https://www.evo.com/wakesurf-boards/ronix-potbelly-rocket-naked-board



https://vimeo.com/246350361

get it from EVO ,now at $519.oo
It has the push you needI have the same board. VERY fast.

[KnoxMojo]

Sounds like it simply comes down to weight...so ill look into the ibs. Was hoping not to dtop more money since i just upgraded, but seems like only way. Weve been trying in about 30ft of water. And im putting weight on front foot, had friend try to that surfs. Id like smaller board like those mentioned, but feel like its weight issue. Figured 2700 lbs would do it.....
Thanks again guys for the advise.

2700 pounds will do it. The problem is that you have overloaded the back of the boat with not much up front to even it out. Try this, fill your surf side rear around 80%, off side to around 50-60%, sit your cooler and any extra weight and one of your crew up front to the surf side, the other couple people to the rear to the surf side, middle position on the tab. Speed at 10.6, trim all the way up then a hair down. I will bet that you will have a very surf-able wave at that point. More weight in the front will lengthen it out while maintaining power. Its is all a numbers game. You can't just throw huge weight at the back, more than some people run in their 15s with the bigger hull, and expect a killer wave. You should have went bow bag first, upgrade rear second. We will get you fixed up.

[Karl]

Thanks man. Problem is theres usually just two adults, one kid, most of the time. We have friends out, but not all the time. Trying to find solution for some bow weight, what about this ? https://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-integrated-bow-sac.html
Still learning, but if i understood previous comment this can be plumed into bow bag so all on same switch?

[Stazi]

2700 pounds will do it. The problem is that you have overloaded the back of the boat with not much up front to even it out. Try this, fill your surf side rear around 80%, off side to around 50-60%, sit your cooler and any extra weight and one of your crew up front to the surf side, the other couple people to the rear to the surf side, middle position on the tab. Speed at 10.6, trim all the way up then a hair down. I will bet that you will have a very surf-able wave at that point. More weight in the front will lengthen it out while maintaining power. Its is all a numbers game. You can't just throw huge weight at the back, more than some people run in their 15s with the bigger hull, and expect a killer wave. You should have went bow bag first, upgrade rear second. We will get you fixed up.

I agree with the above, but would suggest you go 100% on the surf side and try and get a stand alone bag up into the walkway in the bow.

What KnoxMojo suggest will work, but it will be a scaled down wave, which I think is an issue here.

You can easily pick up a single bag of 400lbs or more from the classifieds here, with an external pump. This will get you up and running quickly, if you don’t want to go ahead and get a proper under seat bow bag right off the bat.

With my boat I also run into the same issue at times if it’s just me, my wife and kids. Whenever that the case, I add an extra 400 on the surf side seat (we all ride goofy) and fill everything up to 100%. This usually makes for a really good surf wave with tons of push, especially when I’m driving and my son surfs. My wife typically seats on the rear seat near the starboard side, right next to the bag. When it is my turn to ride, I switch on Autowake to get the same pitch and roll for me, as the subtraction of my 210lb from the drivers seat makes quite a difference with a small crew. When I do this Autowake usually take about 30% out of the non surfside to compensate.

It is also important to note that because of weight difference of the rider, speed makes a huge difference. My son can surf at 11.7-12mph, but when I’m up, I have to go down to 10.8-11mph.

When me crew includes a couple more guys, we can surf faster, and if enough are aboard, we can eliminate the bag on the seat entirely.



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[KnoxMojo]

Thanks man. Problem is theres usually just two adults, one kid, most of the time. We have friends out, but not all the time. Trying to find solution for some bow weight, what about this ? https://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-integrated-bow-sac.html
Still learning, but if i understood previous comment this can be plumed into bow bag so all on same switch?

Karl, my best recommendation is to call Wakemakers, they will get you exactly what you need without any of the guess work, and it will come with all needed hoses and hardware. Also let them know you are a forum member for a discount. And I completely agree with Stazi, look on here and the facebook pages, pick up a 400 bag and pump to run either on or under your surf side seat for all the times its just your small crew. Take these steps, and the next time you ride, you will be grinning and laughing from ear to ear. When you have that puppy fully loaded, 3rd position down on the tab is money!

[trayson]

Thanks for advice guys. We usually just have 3 of us, one being s kid. So we are running light. I will consider it all. Sounds like more bow weight best place to start. Just really didnt want bag on floor or seat....guess i could put under seat, but still gotta buy pump. Thanks again.


Sounds like it simply comes down to weight...so ill look into the ibs. Was hoping not to dtop more money since i just upgraded, but seems like only way. Weve been trying in about 30ft of water. And im putting weight on front foot, had friend try to that surfs. Id like smaller board like those mentioned, but feel like its weight issue. Figured 2700 lbs would do it.....
Thanks again guys for the advise.

Karl, you really aren't listening to some of the advice you're being given.

There are THREE elements to being successful at riding ropeless:

Wave (affected by weight, speed, etc)
Board
Rider Skill


You've had people comment on the board you're riding and comment on rider skill (foot placement, etc) yet all you're hearing is wave/weight.

I can guarantee you that I could take my fast Doomswell board, and a number of years of riding experience and surf your wave with the weight you have ropeless all day long and carve the snot out of it. Just to prove I could I put my 85 pound 12 y/o son in the driver seat and my little 5'2" wife in the rear corner and was able to surf my 23' XLV with ZERO ballast. I couldn't do it very long freeriding, but with the right board/rider you don't even need ballast.

Of course all three elements are important. and typically 1 or 2 of them can compensate for being lacking in the 3rd. I'm sure that your weight setup could certainly be improved. But don't ignore the other two elements. If you're coming here asking us for help, don't ignore valid suggestions.

[Karl]

Not ignoring advice, just seems like the majority are saying its weight/weight placement. And i hate to drop 900 on the board mentioned only to find out that wasnt the issue. I called wakemakers and explained my issue. They said they dont have an IBS for my boat, and didnt think bow weight was the issue. He said they did have sumo bag and pump for bow though. I get that one or more factors need to be changed, just trying to decide where to start.

[KnoxMojo]

My buddy ran that bag and a pump in his lsv, just fill it while filling your rears and drain the same way. It will help a lot. Also, keep inviting that friend out that can surf and have him get back there while you get the speed and settings dialed in. Pick up a sumo bag for your surf side while you are at it, I know it seems like a lot, but it will make all the difference in the world if only going out with 3 people. You may also ask your dealer if they have any boards that you can demo.

[Karl]

Trayson, which board would you recomend, thats affordable. About 190lbs. Still learning the boards too. My buddy brought a Ronix marshmellow, was the same as mine. He surfs and swore he could go ropeless behind mine, but couldnt either. I can carve, jump, slower, faster, etc but not enough push to drop it.
Thanks

[trayson]

Well, I like surf style and like the light/fast EPS foam core boards. I ride a Doomswell Nubstep 4'6". The Doomswells are affordable in comparison to some other higher end EPS boards, but compared to mass produced compression molded boards they're expensive.

I've been riding and loving my Doomswell for the last 4 years and really lost interest in board shopping once I found mine. So I'd defer to others recommendations on what board might be a good match for you. Some of the boards in my past weren't awe inspiring, which is why I've left them in the past.

I did ride a Phase 5 Swell at Demo Days this spring and honestly it's the most fun I've had on a mass produced board in a long time. So that's worth a look. it's not cheap by any measure, but there's a last year's one at Evo that is a little better. https://www.evo.com/outlet/wakesurf-boards/phase-five-the-swell-board-2017

Of course for that kinda money I'd be looking at a Doomswell, Soulcraft, Chaos, or Parker Surfcraft…
Wakesurfing is definitely not a sport where 1 board can accommodate everyone on your boat. at any given time, I've got about 7 different surf boards at my disposal for various friends/family...

[Shoebox]

Trayson, which board would you recomend, thats affordable. About 190lbs. Still learning the boards too. My buddy brought a Ronix marshmellow, was the same as mine. He surfs and swore he could go ropeless behind mine, but couldnt either. I can carve, jump, slower, faster, etc but not enough push to drop it.
ThanksGet a used or prior year model Ronix Blender, Powertail, or Potbelly Rocket. Great, fast boards, and relatively inexpensive, especially used.

[fordbrent1]

I took a lesson with a professional boarder, he had a ronix powertail. I was able to surf without the wave. First thing I did when I got home was buy a ronix. I still couldn't drop the rope until I got my weight right. I ended up buying 1000 bow and 750 for under the seat surf side and now I can ride with my ronix and my cheap 200$ one oneil I had before, admittedly with a little more work. I'm 6'2 230.

2015
Moomba
Mojo

[Shoebox]

Not ignoring advice, just seems like the majority are saying its weight/weight placement. And i hate to drop 900 on the board mentioned only to find out that wasnt the issue. I called wakemakers and explained my issue. They said they dont have an IBS for my boat, and didnt think bow weight was the issue. He said they did have sumo bag and pump for bow though. I get that one or more factors need to be changed, just trying to decide where to start.I don't know who you talked to at Wakemakers, but their website says they have an IBS for your boat - it's the same one I have in my Mondo.

https://www.wakemakers.com/moomba-piggyback-front-ballast-system-upgrade.html

[Karl]

Yeah, guess i got the wrong guy.....i was surprised too. Said they were working on one for thst boat, but didnt have yet. You go 500 or 750?
Thks man.

[Karl]

What about ronix koal powertail? That big diff than the powerfish?

[Shoebox]

Yeah, guess i got the wrong guy.....i was surprised too. Said they were working on one for thst boat, but didnt have yet. You go 500 or 750?
Thks man.750. Get the biggest bags you can fit. You don't need to fill it all the way. Also, people are always selling smaller bags here or on the Moomba/Supra FB page. You can pick them up cheap, for bags to move around when you have a smaller crew.

[Shoebox]

What about ronix koal powertail? That big diff than the powerfish?Powertail is a good board. If I had it to do over again, I'd get the Blender or Powertail over the Potbelly Rocket. The Rocket is faster/more push, but the rocker shape limits what you can do on it.

[Karl]

Or koal classic fish? Those good ones too? Found good deals on them, cool graphics

[Shoebox]

Or koal classic fish? Those good ones too? Found good deals on them, cool graphicsI'd get the Powertail.

[fordbrent1]

The 2017 powertail is really nice. A lot like the 2018. Great prices!https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180830/bdf51dc2c8684c07be7bcb78379f7c39.jpg

2015
Moomba
Mojo

[Karl]

Thanks man. WM guy said 750 too big, I prob couldnt fill 500 all the way, yet link you sent says 750 for mine. I clearly got the wrong guy....

[Shoebox]

Thanks man. WM guy said 750 too big, I prob couldnt fill 500 all the way, yet link you sent says 750 for mine. I clearly got the wrong guy....

I have the 750. It fills completely. Your boat is bigger than mine. You must have gotten the janitor. [emoji23]

[Moombamarc]

I have 2017 mooba helix
I upgraded the rear bags to 1280 my surf side and 1140 other side. I haven’t done anything to the bow. I am 5’9 200. I tried the board my son uses a Waterloo surf style. It was not fast enough to keep my in the pocket. Once I bought a skim 2 fin style board I can ride no problem in the wave no rope. That’s with 3 in the boat and me riding. I didn’t believe my boat would work so I had lessons with a pro (Ashley Kidd)and she was able to ride no problem. So I knew it was my ridding ability. Good luck


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[Karl]

27597

Tried to attach pic, but not sure if it worked.
So I ordered an IBS of 750 and a Ronix powertail, just waiting for them to come in. I did make a wakeshaper and it seemed better than using the surf tabs. Dropped the rope for about 20secs.....couldn't stay in the pocket. Also, the actual pocket is really close to the boat, about 5-6 off the deck. 27597

[Stazi]

That wave has zero curl and is all mush. It’s pretty crappy. Just looks flat as hell with no real wave face. What surfgate deployment amount are you using?
Jus reread that you have the manual tabs. Those suck.

Just get a good stick on wake shaper and it will make a massive difference.

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[Shoebox]

27597

Tried to attach pic, but not sure if it worked.
So I ordered an IBS of 750 and a Ronix powertail, just waiting for them to come in. I did make a wakeshaper and it seemed better than using the surf tabs. Dropped the rope for about 20secs.....couldn't stay in the pocket. Also, the actual pocket is really close to the boat, about 5-6 off the deck. 27597Where did you put the shaper? That wave is crap, and should be far better with a shaper.

[Karl]

Shaper in right spot, at back lowest portion of non surf side. I will say I was little off on speed in that pic and was able to get it better with speed, just didnt get pic. The shaper was a little better thg han surf tab, could tell small diff.

[fordbrent1]

I use the manual tabs and wr do just fine. I have a swell wakeshaper too, but I dont notice a big difference.

2015
Moomba
Mojo

[Shoebox]

Shaper in right spot, at back lowest portion of non surf side. I will say I was little off on speed in that pic and was able to get it better with speed, just didnt get pic. The shaper was a little better thg han surf tab, could tell small diff.When you say "lowest portion", do you mean just above the bottom of the boat, or just above the body line at the back of the boat? https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180903/bd85862811d41ee89a9a1a42ff90f6a9.jpg

[Karl]

Lowest portion of the boat, just above the bottom. It was fully submerged. Like I said, I think my speed was a little slow when I took the pic, which is my fault. It did get better, but its still weak. I think its the 500lb bow weight like most mentioned(and board prob too). Hopefully the 750 IBS will fix it up. I did notice my speed was off when I checked with a GPS, but honestly we have played with the speed a lot to find the ideal speed, regardless of how fast/slow it may be.

[mpbanskie]

Can't help on the wave shape, but can second Moombamarc's comment about the board -

"Once I bought a skim 2 fin style board I can ride no problem in the wave no rope."

I have tried a few boards behind my Outback V, the skim style board I have settled on is much faster than the others meaning I don't need to rearrange everyone on the boat to get a wave I can stay on, it gets the best out of whatever wave we get on the day.

Try and borrow a very flat skim style board with sharp rather than rounded edges and small fins. I am still very much a beginner but find it much easier to hold the pocket and recover even on waves well below knee height.

If you find a 2 minute video 'Moomba outback v, wakesurf progress' that's me finally getting the hang of bouncing with my weight on the front foot to recover on a very modest (mid calf) wake.

Whilst I don't have huge experience, the surf style boards seem to need a more refined pumping technique than the basic 'lean on the front and bounce up and down' that will recover a skim style board.

Also the few surf style boards I have tried have a lot more fin surface which generates so much drag it feels like the brakes are on - no doubt in the right hands they work, but for instant smiles, try a super flat, sharp edged skim style board - just don't leave it black side up in the sun ;-(

Duane.

[Shoebox]

Lowest portion of the boat, just above the bottom. It was fully submerged. Like I said, I think my speed was a little slow when I took the pic, which is my fault. It did get better, but its still weak. I think its the 500lb bow weight like most mentioned(and board prob too). Hopefully the 750 IBS will fix it up. I did notice my speed was off when I checked with a GPS, but honestly we have played with the speed a lot to find the ideal speed, regardless of how fast/slow it may be.That's too low. Put it basically where mine is in the pic, with the blade somewhere around the M or O in Mojo, just above the step body line.

[jcarter20]

That's too low. Put it basically where mine is in the pic, with the blade somewhere around the M or O in Mojo, just above the step body line.

Yep....that would be a problem. I had one on my 05. Not only did the wake change, but I had issues with it popping off. Fill the boat, then put it about 2” above the water line. Bow weight is also going to make a difference.


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[Sp8]

I have a different model, but for reference, we get our best wave at this location. Pretty much under rear cleat and just below hull ridge

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180904/5bed4b88ae41a422085a39b7372f895a.jpg


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[SorryCharlie]

Sounds like it simply comes down to weight...so ill look into the ibs. Was hoping not to dtop more money since i just upgraded, but seems like only way. Weve been trying in about 30ft of water. And im putting weight on front foot, had friend try to that surfs. Id like smaller board like those mentioned, but feel like its weight issue. Figured 2700 lbs would do it.....
Thanks again guys for the advise.

I waited until Black Friday and I think Wakemakers had 25% off on the bags. That's when I purchased.

[Shoebox]

Powertail is a good board. If I had it to do over again, I'd get the Blender or Powertail over the Potbelly Rocket. The Rocket is faster/more push, but the rocker shape limits what you can do on it.Ok so I'm going to revise my opinion here. I removed the center fin on the Rocket, and it's a different board. Able to spin it too, which I didn't think was possible with the rocker shape. Super fun, and by far the fastest board I've ridden.

Also had a chance to ride a buddy's Doomswell Nubstep 4'8". What a fun board! Not for beginners, but damn that thing was fun to ride.

[Shoebox]

Lowest portion of the boat, just above the bottom. It was fully submerged. Like I said, I think my speed was a little slow when I took the pic, which is my fault. It did get better, but its still weak. I think its the 500lb bow weight like most mentioned(and board prob too). Hopefully the 750 IBS will fix it up. I did notice my speed was off when I checked with a GPS, but honestly we have played with the speed a lot to find the ideal speed, regardless of how fast/slow it may be.FYI there's a Tsunami pump for sale on the Moomba/Supra FB page for $100 shipped obo.

[pat6969]

Koal Classic Fish is what I use. Almost surfs itself and I'm 225.

[KG's Supra24]

Just upgraded my rear bags to 1140s. Still have factory bow tank, manual surf tabs. Tried various speeds, wake plate adjustments, still can drop the rope. Any suggestions? Shouldnt this be enough weight?
Thanks

Yes, that should be plenty of weight. Are you surfing correctly? Go through the August pictures and take note of how all the people are standing that are rope less. I snagged a pic from trayson .......

https://i.imgur.com/pNwFxJ9.jpg


Are your toes that close to the wave or are your heels closer to the edge of the board than your toes?

Are you leaning forward like she is or back like every other watersport?

Her hips are a little open to the boat in this pic ... but ideally she would be able to touch the top of the wave with her left hand.

I think bc it looks so easy, and it's moving so slow, a lot of new people expect the boat and board to do all the work. That's no fun!

[Pound]

^^^^ This.
Rider ability is way under rated. People are quick to point to ballast 1st, then board 2nd. I can tell you that I too was frustrated w/short ropeless runs even after upgrading ballast AND board. Then started paying more attention to my foot position and how I ride. Moving your lead foot closer to the inside rail helps a lot and get out of the habit of trying to ride stationary in a pocket. Work on carving and as you become more proficient at it you'll find that your ability to ride w/o the rope will improve dramatically. Then you can find a pocket (there are usually at least 2 of them) and cruise there if you choose to. Ballast and board selection are important but rider skill is equally (and in some cases more) important. I have a doomswell neo and a cwb ride. and can ride either board as long as I wish now where before I'd get frustrated w/the cwb board. I actually kinda like the board now.

Oh, and a tip for boat setup for those of us w/o autowake that did help for me... (assuming you have an iphone available) The compass app has an inclinometer. find a flat spot on your boat and use this app to check for your pitch and roll. I try to target a 10deg pitch and 4deg roll for goofy and -2deg roll for regular. This may not apply for a boat w/o surf tabs, and you may need more roll w/o them, but i'd guess if you're running much more pitch than 10deg you need more bow weight or less rear weight.

[trayson]

Yes, that should be plenty of weight. Are you surfing correctly? Go through the August pictures and take note of how all the people are standing that are rope less. I snagged a pic from trayson .......

https://i.imgur.com/pNwFxJ9.jpg


Are your toes that close to the wave or are your heels closer to the edge of the board than your toes?

Are you leaning forward like she is or back like every other watersport?

Her hips are a little open to the boat in this pic ... but ideally she would be able to touch the top of the wave with her left hand.

I think bc it looks so easy, and it's moving so slow, a lot of new people expect the boat and board to do all the work. That's no fun!

Completely agree. That's not to say that a wave can't suck, because ironically in this pic we were riding the wave of a Moomba Max and I think they had their tabs deployed too far and it was lifting the stern and creating a clean wave with no push. In this picture, she was doing everything she could to stay in the wave before getting dropped. So it is certainly possible to be doing about everything right and have a weaksauce wave. (I don't think that's the case with the OP though). I was finally able to stay in the wave (with great effort) by carving it to generate my own speed, but my rider ability was certainly about the only thing that even gave me a fighting chance.

[Stazi]

Completely agree. That's not to say that a wave can't suck, because ironically in this pic we were riding the wave of a Moomba Max and I think they had their tabs deployed too far and it was lifting the stern and creating a clean wave with no push. In this picture, she was doing everything she could to stay in the wave before getting dropped. So it is certainly possible to be doing about everything right and have a weaksauce wave. (I don't think that's the case with the OP though). I was finally able to stay in the wave (with great effort) by carving it to generate my own speed, but my rider ability was certainly about the only thing that even gave me a fighting chance.

Looks like they probably cranked to tabs to 100% thinking that give the biggest wave which is definitely not the case. You can tell by how flat the wave is right behind the boat.


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[trayson]

Looks like they probably cranked to tabs to 100% thinking that give the biggest wave which is definitely not the case. You can tell by how flat the wave is right behind the boat.


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Yeah, as far as I know they told Autowake 100% ballast, 100% amplitude. It was underwhelming and frustrating to say the least. I might get out on another Max at somepoint. I'd like to see if it can produce a decent wave with just 3k ballast.

[MJHSupra]

Yeah, as far as I know they told Autowake 100% ballast, 100% amplitude. It was underwhelming and frustrating to say the least. I might get out on another Max at somepoint. I'd like to see if it can produce a decent wave with just 3k ballast.Following this.

One would think 3k would be enough.
I'm all in for max ballast, but 3k is a lot for a decent size wake.

Was that a demo ride or a friend's boat?

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[trayson]

Following this.

One would think 3k would be enough.
I'm all in for max ballast, but 3k is a lot for a decent size wake.

Was that a demo ride or a friend's boat?

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It was a couple local guys that own a Max that have it up for sale. I chatted him up a bit but said that it probably wasn't realistic for me to pull the trigger on their Max, but that I'd love to get out with them sometime and learn a bit about the boat. The one owner seems like he felt it was more of a demo though.

That said, the wakeboard wake on the Max delivered. No complaints there.

The sales guy at AWS might get me out again on another Max, so of course I'll report back if/when that happens.

[dakota4ce]

Following this.

One would think 3k would be enough.
I'm all in for max ballast, but 3k is a lot for a decent size wake.

Was that a demo ride or a friend's boat?

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An almost 23’ boat with 3000#? I would say that’s never going to deliver an amazing wave. That is not enough weight. There’s no cheating physics.


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[trayson]

An almost 23’ boat with 3000#? I would say that’s never going to deliver an amazing wave. That is not enough weight. There’s no cheating physics.


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I regularly run 3000 - 3500 in my 23' XLV and get a wave I've been really happy with. So I expected the Max to put out at least similar with 3k. It was half the height and no push the way they had it setup.

[pslitty]

That CWB board sux. Sorry but it’s the truth. You should look at another more buoyant (surf style) and faster board.

I’m 6’2” and 210 and the CWB Ride is a board I would basically need to hang 5 on to stay in the pocket.

Look for a large sleek surf board something like a Phase 5 Aku or a Inland Surfer Red Rocket. Something with fast lines, hard rails and some good rocker on it.

The board makes a huge difference especially when you a big guy like me. The Aku for me is like a Ferrari and one of my favorites. It is quite loose and very responsive, so it will be a big difference to what you have now.

If you can get pics at some point post them, otherwise it’s a crap shoot.




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Leave my Ferrari alone Stazi! I’m gonna have to start locking it up!


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[Stazi]

Leave my Ferrari alone Stazi! I’m gonna have to start locking it up!


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I have the Marshmallow as hostage!


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[dakota4ce]

I regularly run 3000 - 3500 in my 23' XLV and get a wave I've been really happy with. So I expected the Max to put out at least similar with 3k. It was half the height and no push the way they had it setup.

You have no surf system. Different formula. Remove Flow from that max and list it like your XLV and you’ll have what you’re used to.


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[trayson]

You have no surf system. Different formula. Remove Flow from that max and list it like your XLV and you’ll have what you’re used to.


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But I use the suck gate. That's basically a surf system...

[dakota4ce]

But I use the suck gate. That's basically a surf system...

Well then never mind.

How does the bottom side surface area of the Max compared to your boat?

Did you say the boat was set up correctly? Setting the tabs incorrectly can make it terrible.

Have you done much riding behind a newer bigger heavy boat with a correctly set up surf system and been happy? That would be a good comparison test.


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[dakota4ce]

But I use the suck gate. That's basically a surf system...

Do you still list, or weight even? (With suckgate)


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[trayson]

Well then never mind.

How does the bottom side surface area of the Max compared to your boat?

Did you say the boat was set up correctly? Setting the tabs incorrectly can make it terrible.

Have you done much riding behind a newer bigger heavy boat with a correctly set up surf system and been happy? That would be a good comparison test.


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They put autowake on 100% ballast, 100% amplitude and surf left. My guess is that they had the tabs deployed too much and that lifted the stern and killed the push.

Obviously most the time is on my boat, but I've spent a good amount of time surfing a 2015 G23 with 3k of stock ballast and honestly expected something like that. The G23 wave is not as tall as mine, and it's not as clean (it has a crease towards the top of the wave), but it is longer. It has plenty of push and that's basically what I was thinking I'd get from the Max. Longer, reasonable push, but not as tall. I'll see what happens if/when I ride another one.


Do you still list, or weight even? (With suckgate)


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Oh I most certainly list it. I've got 1000+ pounds more on the port side than I do on the starboard. The suck gate makes it cleaner, and overall nicer.

So, sure, apples to oranges somewhat, but I still expected that with 3000 pounds that surfing the Max would be better than an exercise in frustration/disappointment. (and you can trust that I've got the board and rider skill aspects covered, so it was most certainly the wave that time)

[dakota4ce]

They put autowake on 100% ballast, 100% amplitude and surf left. My guess is that they had the tabs deployed too much and that lifted the stern and killed the push.

Obviously most the time is on my boat, but I've spent a good amount of time surfing a 2015 G23 with 3k of stock ballast and honestly expected something like that. The G23 wave is not as tall as mine, and it's not as clean (it has a crease towards the top of the wave), but it is longer. It has plenty of push and that's basically what I was thinking I'd get from the Max. Longer, reasonable push, but not as tall. I'll see what happens if/when I ride another one.



Oh I most certainly list it. I've got 1000+ pounds more on the port side than I do on the starboard. The suck gate makes it cleaner, and overall nicer.

So, sure, apples to oranges somewhat, but I still expected that with 3000 pounds that surfing the Max would be better than an exercise in frustration/disappointment. (and you can trust that I've got the board and rider skill aspects covered, so it was most certainly the wave that time)

Got it. So you are indeed mostly listing your boat. I did the same with a suckgate on my Tige 24Ve few years back. So you are not doing the same thing as a level weighted boat or nearly level weighted.

100% amp and 100% ballast doesn't mean anything.....kind of redundant info technically. If you fill 100% ballast, there would be no way to have less than 100% amp. --I think-- Anyway, the setting of the surf tab and most importantly the center tab is vital. Surf tab should be somewhere between 45-65 and the center tab should be ZERO or as close to it as possible. If it was even above 25....it becomes a wave crushing machine. And the last variable--speed. I see lots and lots of slow a** speeds. 11.6 or above the wave typically becomes a rock. Boat needs to be at 9-10 degrees nose up, and 3 degrees to the regular side.

I am leveraging Makai experience as a disclaimer....that is my only Flow 2.0 experience. All other is GSA and Swell 2.0. But the principles have held throughout.

I am sure the stock max can do lots better. But that being said, the modified/ballasted max will likely make you sport wood.

[trayson]

Got it. So you are indeed mostly listing your boat. I did the same with a suckgate on my Tige 24Ve few years back. So you are not doing the same thing as a level weighted boat or nearly level weighted.

100% amp and 100% ballast doesn't mean anything.....kind of redundant info technically. If you fill 100% ballast, there would be no way to have less than 100% amp. --I think-- Anyway, the setting of the surf tab and most importantly the center tab is vital. Surf tab should be somewhere between 45-65 and the center tab should be ZERO or as close to it as possible. If it was even above 25....it becomes a wave crushing machine. And the last variable--speed. I see lots and lots of slow a** speeds. 11.6 or above the wave typically becomes a rock. Boat needs to be at 9-10 degrees nose up, and 3 degrees to the regular side.

I am leveraging Makai experience as a disclaimer....that is my only Flow 2.0 experience. All other is GSA and Swell 2.0. But the principles have held throughout.

I am sure the stock max can do lots better. But that being said, the modified/ballasted max will likely make you sport wood.

I approve this message.

[dakota4ce]

I approve this message.

🤣🤣


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[KnoxMojo]

100% amp and 100% ballast doesn't mean anything.....kind of redundant info technically. If you fill 100% ballast, there would be no way to have less than 100% amp. --I think--


Dakota, you can have 100% ballast and not be at 1000 on amplitude, I have seen it every time out. Now if you want 100 amplitude, that's all the available amplitude. For instance, I had 8 people on the boat Friday, amplitude was at 1000 with half 3/4 ballast. I set autowake for 65% of that for a mellower wake. Today, with 4 on the boat, amplitude was around 600 with full ballast. The numbers get confusing. But amplitude is measured 0-1000 then that top number is 0-100 for what percent you want of that amplitude. The idea is to keep the same shape of waves and wakes as you dial the percentage of amplitude up and down but they get smaller or bigger as you go up or down.

[MJHSupra]

but I still expected that with 3000 pounds that surfing the Max would be better than an exercise in frustration/disappointment. (and you can trust that I've got the board and rider skill aspects covered, so it was most certainly the wave that time)

My initial thought.



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[Stazi]

Amplitude is measured by the draft sensor, so if there are enough bodies on the boat you can achieve 100% with less than a 100% ballast.

If it my boat I never go Less than 100% ballast regardless of how Many or few people on the boat


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[dakota4ce]

Amplitude is measured by the draft sensor, so if there are enough bodies on the boat you can achieve 100% with less than a 100% ballast.

If it my boat I never go Less than 100% ballast regardless of how Many or few people on the boat


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Same here. Never partial fill.

I see how you could have less than 100. In this scenario I don’t think it matters. They had 100% ballast. I think setting the 100 amp preset just means it would never empty much ballast to achieve Autowake....yes? No?

But the boat not surfing basically at all is messed up. Autowake does not exercise any control over tabs.



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[dakota4ce]

Dakota, you can have 100% ballast and not be at 1000 on amplitude, I have seen it every time out. Now if you want 100 amplitude, that's all the available amplitude. For instance, I had 8 people on the boat Friday, amplitude was at 1000 with half 3/4 ballast. I set autowake for 65% of that for a mellower wake. Today, with 4 on the boat, amplitude was around 600 with full ballast. The numbers get confusing. But amplitude is measured 0-1000 then that top number is 0-100 for what percent you want of that amplitude. The idea is to keep the same shape of waves and wakes as you dial the percentage of amplitude up and down but they get smaller or bigger as you go up or down.

My Makai I think achieves close to full amp with full ballast.....but I have 4000 factory and lead in boat. Maybe the SA doesn’t get there with full factory ballast....


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[KnoxMojo]

My Makai I think achieves close to full amp with full ballast.....but I have 4000 factory and lead in boat. Maybe the SA doesn’t get there with full factory ballast....


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Correct, full ballast and 3 people in the boat, it is around 600. Full ballast with 8 and it was at 1000. I will try to find the break even 1000 point. The Makai weighs the same as the SA with 500 pounds more ballast and how ever much lead you are running.

But was just saying amplitude 1000 and ballast 100 aren't the same thing. All good.

And yeah, those Max tabs more than likely were not set right.

[dakota4ce]

Correct, full ballast and 3 people in the boat, it is around 600. Full ballast with 8 and it was at 1000. I will try to find the break even 1000 point. The Makai weighs the same as the SA with 500 pounds more ballast and how ever much lead you are running.

But was just saying amplitude 1000 and ballast 100 aren't the same thing. All good.

And yeah, those Max tabs more than likely were not set right.

I added the disclaimer that I was leveraging Makai experience. In the fine print! 🤣


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[Stazi]

I bet they cranked the surf tab to 100% deployment thinking that means the biggest wave.

A lot of people make that incorrect assumption about the surf tabs.


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[MJHSupra]

I added the disclaimer that I was leveraging Makai experience. In the fine print! [emoji1787]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNice Facebook post on that surf session.

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[FamilyMan]

Tried the advice of running at 11.4-6 this week and wow, great advice. Lengthened the wave and I was able to take the wake plate from 100 to 0 as well. So basically it kept the great push I was getting at the lower speed and the plate at zero without a super tall and steep wave which I was mitigating by moving the wake plate to a 100 and losing a bit of push to shorten and lengthen the wave. Much appreciation for the advice. All my buddies (old mondo and old xlv suckgaters) all run low 10s so I figured that’s what I should be doing.

[Karl]

Yes. I've played with different feet positions on the board and that is basically the way I am riding. I upgraded to the 750 IBS and took the new Powertail out yesterday. It was better, but still can't drop the rope for very long. Also, the pocket is still really close to the deck. My friend that surfs came out and had the same issue. We had better results with the manual surf tabs than the wake shaper, but I was still putting it below water line at the rear(didn't read those suggestions till today). I will try moving the shaper around more tomorrow if we get to go out. We tried different speeds as well, seemed best around 12.5. I've got the speedo pretty close with a gps as well. I feel like I've done everything I can and tried the suggestions, but its still not that great. I'll try and get some pics tomorrow too.

[KnoxMojo]

Where are you running the manual tab? With that much weight, the lowest position is the best. You need to list the boat slightly to the surf side. Wake plate all the way up and just a tick or so down to clean it up. You should have your best wave around 10.7 mph. I have dialed this boat in several times, just have to take my advice. I had the manual tabs for 4 seasons on my Mojo. Feel free to message me for help.

[Karl]

We were running the tab in the lowest, 3rd position. I drained some of the non surf side, maybe to about 80%, and it was worse, little to no slack in rope. Wake plate was all the way up, to about 3/4. Don't think we got down to 10.7, but did to maybe 11.5 or so. Didn't seem as good below 12. I will say my speed is off some, I adjusted some before with the gps, but think its still around 1mph fast. I will list it tomorrow when we go back out, see if that helps. Wasn't sure about the listing thing, as I had read somewhere, think on wakemakers, that it didn't make a big difference when running the surf tabs or a wake shaper, but could be wrong.
Thanks for the advice.

[jason1973]

after reading 8 pages, this is scaring me.. about to close a deal on a 2019 mondo and now a little worried it won't surf well. Buying it for 99% surf. Got bigger bags in the deal, plus auto flow etc.... everything they said i would need to surf.

[Stazi]

Don’t be scared. The Mondo surfs great. It’s all about weight and setting the boat up right.


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[KnoxMojo]

after reading 8 pages, this is scaring me.. about to close a deal on a 2019 mondo and now a little worried it won't surf well. Buying it for 99% surf. Got bigger bags in the deal, plus auto flow etc.... everything they said i would need to surf.

Not even the same boat. Manual tabs that didn't. Have the right. ballast vs new that should be set up correctly. What size bigger bags? 900s in the Mondo are plenty.

[jason1973]

Not even the same boat. Manual tabs that didn't. Have the right. ballast vs new that should be set up correctly. What size bigger bags? 900s in the Mondo are plenty.

did the 750's per the recommendation from the moomba rep

[KnoxMojo]

You'll be good. The problem people are running into is trying to surf with just 1 or 2 in the boat, if that's also your case, I'd invest in lead wake bags or fat sacs and an over the side pump to mimic people weight. With all the resources here, you'll be jamming fast!

[jason1973]

that is our problem. Some weekends its just me, wife and 8 yr old son. Some weekends we have up to 10 people in the boat. I do have a sumo 475 lb bag with a tsunami toss over the side pump. Do you suggest i put that somewhere on the boat seats?

[KnoxMojo]

I'd keep that bag handy for the light days and run it either on or under your surf side seat, it'll help a lot. On light days, I run extra weight in our SA, it's just part of it. You're going to be throwing killer waves from day one

[Shoebox]

that is our problem. Some weekends its just me, wife and 8 yr old son. Some weekends we have up to 10 people in the boat. I do have a sumo 475 lb bag with a tsunami toss over the side pump. Do you suggest i put that somewhere on the boat seats?Mondo surfs great. You'll definitely either want that sumo bag or pick up some lead. I run 670 lbs of lead, 150 under each rear bag, 50 on either side of the V drive cover, 170 in the bow and 100 that I move from side to side for goofy or regular.

[Karl]

27681

So far this is best wave ive been able to get. This is with about 3200 lbs. and diy shaper. I was finally able to drop the rope for a bit, but pocket is small and very close to the deck. We were running only two in boat tho. Its getting there, but still need more weight....

[Shoebox]

27681

So far this is best wave ive been able to get. This is with about 3200 lbs. and diy shaper. I was finally able to drop the rope for a bit, but pocket is small and very close to the deck. We were running only two in boat tho. Its getting there, but still need more weight....I still think you might have the shaper in the wrong place.

Should be about here...
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/13e945a1e6aa25b0741d2f14a145338e.jpg
This is my wave with zero water ballast, just 670 lbs lead. Very surfable.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180919/d35a3338fd69574fa9b47cc56f779313.jpg

[Karl]

No, thats where im putting it. I did have it lower and can tell an improvement with it higher though.

[Shoebox]

Something is wrong. With that boat, a shaper, and that much weight you should be making a great wave.

[KG's Supra24]

Did you try slowing the boat down any?

I haven't been following recently so may have missed it. From the pic, though, that would be my guess.

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[jason1973]

I agree, something is wrong.. i am far from expert on setting up boats, but have some experience and my MC X2 has a better wake with only 600lbs of ballast, and no wake shaper. My guess would be speed. Going to fast. Should be between 9.5 and 11 somewhere in there depending on the boat.

[Karl]

Yeah, we were running between 10.5 and 11. Got speedo set with gps. When speedo set at 20 with gps it was off on low end, and vice versa when set low. I thk it pretty close now at low end.

[jcredible]

did the 750's per the recommendation from the moomba rep

I have a 2017 Mondo and it surfs great for a 20.5 foot boat. It took lots of playing around all summer...but here is what I ended up at:

1) 1100 lbs bags in the rear
2) 500 lbs lead
3) 1000 lbs up front(hard tank + IBS)
4) 650 lbs bag on the floor infront of the transmission access panel.
5) surf tab at 65(goofy) and 60(regular
6) Goofy I run around 11.2 vs regular at 10.8 to clean it up
7) Goofy requires me to drain ~30% out of the one side to list the boat...but regular rides well equally waited.

If I am only running 2 in the boat...the extra 650lbs makes a difference for wave height and push. I have attached a photo of the regular wave with only 2 people in the boat.


27693

[Karl]

Man, thats a lot of weight. I was hoping it wouldnt take 4000lbs to surf, but that's kinda how its looking. Hell, my boat weighs about 4000lbs! I guess the USCG rating has to be over looked. Im gonna play around with speed some more, but I really dont want every compartment filled with ballast, need some room for jackets and rope at least. I appreciate all the advice though.

[Shoebox]

You don't need that much weight for a surfable wave. You need that much for the biggest, best wave you can get.

[jason1973]

You don't need that much weight for a surfable wave. You need that much for the biggest, best wave you can get.

i am glad you posted this... because with as much weight as jcredible is using i could never do.. you couldn't walk in the boat. It would just be water everywhere. For me i am starting out with the 750's in the rear, 600 under the seat and 500 in the bow.

if that doesn't work, they i bought the wrong boat.

[Shoebox]

i am glad you posted this... because with as much weight as jcredible is using i could never do.. you couldn't walk in the boat. It would just be water everywhere. For me i am starting out with the 750's in the rear, 600 under the seat and 500 in the bow.

if that doesn't work, they i bought the wrong boat.I have about the same amount of weight he does, but my floor bag is 400 and I put it up front in the walk through. I've surfed it while draining on the way back to the dock, and had plenty of push til it was over half empty. But that was with Nauticurl, before the tabs.

[jcredible]

Totally fair...I ran the stock 2300 lbs with 500 lbs of lead was able to surf with 2 x people in the boat last fall when I bought the boat. I am always looking for the best possible wave I can. The 1100s probably only get ~1000 lbs in them in the rear lockers

2800lbs is a good wave
3500lbs is really good
4100lbs is probably about as good as the wave is gonna get


To stress though...it had a very surfable wave at stock 2300 + 500lbs of lead with 2x people in the boat.(Especially regular) You will find with goofy that you need to list and run it faster it to get the consistency in the wave!