Homemade surf tabs

[Shoebox]

Long post, so bear with me.

I went round and round in my mind about whether to make a set of surf gates or tabs for my boat. Gates seemed easier, but when I made a ghetto gate to test the "proof of concept", the wave wasn't very good, and my boat didn't like it much. So tabs it is. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/550b9db7b956f68e9710c19cdf8aa8ea.jpg

I looked at the tabs that come on basically all the manufacturers that used them, and ended up essentially copying what's on the MB boats.

I made about 100 drawings, and at least 3 cardboard mockups until I was happy with it, then gave those measurements to my buddy, who put them into CAD
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/0b8cc4d807c9f88bac0cd4c0eb42a9d1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/a3e6f501f2fa7b8ec6e43320392a72d4.jpg

[Shoebox]

We got the metal waterjet cut, bent at a local fabricator, and then welded them up. I could have saved about $150 by cutting everything myself and welding on the side pieces instead of bending them, but the finished product is much nicer this way.

I also had to make the lower actuator brackets, which is of 2" square aluminum tube with one side shaved off. The tabs are 3/16" 5052 aluminum plate, roughly 17.5" wide x 21" long. Everything powdercoated satin black.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/ba716579a647287b58f5c445aec2dfe2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/727fc0352552935fa055e98beac8db20.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/1b4d73534fc7f3da8d6c12c0b027d1cb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/8b694e2c139e7ef447e9845ec177df02.jpg

[Shoebox]

Lenco uses #14 screws for their trim tab hinges, so that's what I was going to do too. They say to drill the pilot holes with a 3/16" bit. Drilling into the hull was more than a little nerve-wracking. First screw cracked the hell out of the gelcoat and froze in place about 1/2" in, and the head broke off. F*%k!!! I decided to leave that screw alone, and used #12 screws for the rest.

I also had to use the Lenco remote gland seal kit to route the actuator wires into the boat, because where the actuators mount is below the floor in the lockers. Broke one screw on each of those too. 1" thick fiberglass does not like being screwed into.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/f8f970221b0b9d6e5f000e7f7cbff890.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/207ca04c0c82f123c66b53dd00345693.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/b1fb52a84fe244d1835287488b3acf3e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/6789a00344d8839ef03920a89f8c1af9.jpg

[Shoebox]

For controls, I'm initially using regular Lenco trim tab switches. I made a mounting plate to mount the switches in the huge hole left by the Sony remote next to the throttle.

In a couple weeks a friend I made through another forum is sending me an arduino-based controller he built which will have all of the features of the Wake Logic setup, without the high price tag.

Wiring the relay panel took the longest of all of this, because I’m slow and because I changed a few things as I went along. I think it turned out okay. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/5db8dfe70a0e9bfcd94bc5edf9dec3c8.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/a8a6ae208144ac8a661f4a39565ca687.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/59bb3c90091129caf0b0853c8ebc05f5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/1da5bdc6022c592626b6a11f1b7f778a.jpg

[Shoebox]

The first (and only, so far) day of testing had mixed results. The wave forms almost instantly, and the shape is much better and more fun than the Nauticurl wave, but at the moment doesn't have as much push. I need to move weight around to see where it needs to be.

I need to remove some weight from the bow, because the tab pushes the nose down, as well as lists the boat. That may add some push.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/00a6abf18eb9c2c2e2690cbfc72a0eb1.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/20b4a2d0b0318c0ba667a0ace595c06c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/ee8b90f23124759063c3205cd94153ec.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180822/81cf953d7bb3ee13c0ae4db67a112f68.jpg

[Shoebox]

My biggest mistake was using aluminum hinges. That’s what MB uses, but I guess theirs are much thicker than what I used. My hinges started to bend, particularly at that one broken screw.

I pulled the tabs back off, and was able to get that broken screw out. My buddy suggested we tap the holes for ¼”-20 machine screws, which is what we ended up doing. The threads are the same depth as the sheet metal screws, but there are many more of them, so the holding power will be much greater. I don’t know why Lenco and others don’t suggest doing it this way.

I ordered some new, thicker, stainless steel hinges. They were supposed to be delivered yesterday, but apparently were damaged in shipping, so now I’m in waiting mode. Once I get them, I’ll polish them (actually to a brushed finish) instead of powdercoat, and get everything reinstalled next week.

[dakota4ce]

I can pass along my GSA experience—for whatever it might be worth. Probably zero! 🤣

Try deploying the tab at a shallower angle, and run more rear weight. Get them deep as you can, then avoid as much lift as you can. I owned GSA on my MB.

I ran enough bow weight to keep the running attitude reasonable—like in the 10 degree pitch range. So I slammed the rear big time, then sprinkled in bow until it ran appropriately.


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[Shoebox]

I can pass along my GSA experience—for whatever it might be worth. Probably zero! 🤣

Try deploying the tab at a shallower angle, and run more rear weight. Get them deep as you can, then avoid as much lift as you can. I owned GSA on my MB.

I ran enough bow weight to keep the running attitude reasonable—like in the 10 degree pitch range. So I slammed the rear big time, then sprinkled in bow until it ran appropriately.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThanks. Yeah I have a lot of tweaking to do to find the best setup. It'll be much easier when the real controller gets here, because I'll be able to get it dialed, then hit a button to save the tab setting. Right now it's kinda shooting in the dark, since I have no indication of tab/actuator position.

[dakota4ce]

That makes sense. The GSA system would always deploy fully, and then I would use the dial to suck it back up until it was shallower and created a steeper wave.


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[beat taco]

Gsa can be tricky to dial but the results are well worth it. The system loves weight.

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[soonerbilly]

Nice work.....what's your all in price right now?

[Shoebox]

Nice work.....what's your all in price right now?About $1000.

[Shoebox]

Gsa can be tricky to dial but the results are well worth it. The system loves weight.

Sent from my SM-G960U using TapatalkI've got 4k total weight in plumbed bags and lead, plus another 400 lb bag with a tsunami pump. I just need to figure out the best spots for it. Like dakota4ce said, I think it needs less in the bow.

[z28ke]

Very nice work and super ballsy! I’m interested to see what the other controller looks like.

[MJHSupra]

Cool thread. I went the way of Wakeland Surf Tabs on my 2007 Supra 22'

I had an issue with my controller about a month ago, so I called the company and drove over to pick up a new one. Lucky to live in Knoxville. While I was there I was offered to try a newer set of (larger) plates. I originally had the v1.0, but now have the bigger ones they install on the Moomba boats.

Top is v1.0
Bottom is v2.0 - just installed them last week. Have not been out of any testing.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/44160029702_d32e2b9da8_c.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1819/44160029542_5cc73232c1_c.jpg

[MJHSupra]

I have also found the boat likes a lot of weight in the back. I run very little bow weight - actually none until I get the wake cleaned up.

Then I start adding to make it longer. And adjusting the speeds a little. My biggest issue is getting a clean wake. It takes a lot of trial/error. Sometimes too much compared the the new boats.

I was just looking at some pics on Facebook of some of those SL wakes . . . . . so long . . . . dang!!

[gravity]

You should post this on wake garage. Its a great site and you can get a free hat if you add 3 or more projects.

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[Shoebox]

You should post this on wake garage. Its a great site and you can get a free hat if you add 3 or more projects.

Sent from my SM-G930V using TapatalkThanks, I got a lot of good info from Wakegarage. I'm leery of posting too much about it because I don't want to cross the GSA guys. And to be honest, I may end up changing the plates anyway, because these are humongous and put a LOT of stress on the hinges. If I do change the plates, I will probably post over there.

[Shoebox]

Cool thread. I went the way of Wakeland Surf Tabs on my 2007 Supra 22'

I had an issue with my controller about a month ago, so I called the company and drove over to pick up a new one. Lucky to live in Knoxville. While I was there I was offered to try a newer set of (larger) plates. I originally had the v1.0, but now have the bigger ones they install on the Moomba boats.

Top is v1.0
Bottom is v2.0 - just installed them last week. Have not been out of any testing.

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1820/44160029702_d32e2b9da8_c.jpg

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1819/44160029542_5cc73232c1_c.jpgI looked at buying their kit, but it was $2400 just for the parts, and to be honest I'm not real happy with the idea of that big lever arm the actuator mounts to at the top. Especially with that bigger plate. My very first, original plan was to do one similar to the stock Moomba setup, until I realized that.

I got a little ahead of myself with that one. I ended up using the aluminum from these to make the lower plates on the final tabs. [emoji23] https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180823/0f204d8398001cba78ba679538151425.jpg

[Shoebox]

I have also found the boat likes a lot of weight in the back. I run very little bow weight - actually none until I get the wake cleaned up.

Then I start adding to make it longer. And adjusting the speeds a little. My biggest issue is getting a clean wake. It takes a lot of trial/error. Sometimes too much compared the the new boats.

I was just looking at some pics on Facebook of some of those SL wakes . . . . . so long . . . . dang!!

Yeah I have 200 lbs of lead in the bow that I'm going to try moving to the back to see how much it helps, and try reducing water from the bow bag. I'm also going to make another set of plates that are a little smaller to see how that changes things. I really don't have nearly enough testing done yet.

[stevemarich]

Nice job, looks like it it turned out pretty good.

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[Shoebox]

Nice job, looks like it it turned out pretty good.

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkYeah, you need to come out for a ride when I get it back together.

[stevemarich]

Yeah, you need to come out for a ride when I get it back together.Sounds like a plan, labor day weekend is looking open

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[MJHSupra]

I'm also going to make another set of plates that are a little smaller to see how that changes things.

I was told by the owner of Wakeland, that bigger is not always better. At least for my hull.

Did not get into a detailed engineering of why, but these are the guys that know all the SC hulls.


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[Shoebox]

Sounds like a plan, labor day weekend is looking open

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkCool, I'm waiting for The Boss to decide what she wants to do for Labor Day weekend.

[stevemarich]

Cool, I'm waiting for The Boss to decide what she wants to do for Labor Day weekend.Sweet, just let me know , the old boss has the kiddos that weekend, don't have anything planned yet [emoji23]

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[Shoebox]

Replaced the hinges with far beefier stainless hinges. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180831/ad13181bc3d11576640b68878362d9e5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180831/c0b6f34f44715a150fe5ff6764538a8f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180831/88498a81c329ff8b42aedbd332a4ea83.jpg

[Jeepers]

Very impressive! Keep us updated!

I went from the mission delta to the Wakeland 2.0 surf system. I found decreasing my bow weight and moving the 400#’s of lead I mid-ship to the front of the rear bags greatly improved the push. We can now ride way back on the wave without any trouble.


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[Shoebox]

Very impressive! Keep us updated!

I went from the mission delta to the Wakeland 2.0 surf system. I found decreasing my bow weight and moving the 400#’s of lead I mid-ship to the front of the rear bags greatly improved the push. We can now ride way back on the wave without any trouble.


Sent from my iPad using TapatalkYeah the tab really pushes the bow down. Definitely going to move some weight aft.

[Shoebox]

Got the boat back in the water today. I moved all the lead I had in the bow to the floor in front of the rear seat on the surf side. I also initially only filled the bow ballast halfway. Nose was way too high, needed more speed and wakeplate full down.

I filled the bow ballast the rest of the way, and really seemed to make a powerful wave. The proof is in the surfing, but I was the only one in the boat, so surf test will have to wait. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180901/cfc24acc8ca96e34f4ab27136d2b1419.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180901/79b7d83537edc805ad00ff2d743c4385.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180901/b4621320552ed917aad0865b744b369a.jpg

[Jeepers]

It looks like you’ve got her dialed in perfectly! Nice work! I bet it’ll surf very well!


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[Shoebox]

Got out surfing on it Monday. Good push and size, fun shape. Not many pics, still need to play with weight and placement.

Also going to make a set of shorter tabs to see if that makes any difference.

Can't wait to get my controller... https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180905/309f7488f157f8cdb139b8e8de7a02b0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180905/79946b3813565c77eb6b729def8c7e3a.jpg

[trayson]

Thanks. Yeah I have a lot of tweaking to do to find the best setup. It'll be much easier when the real controller gets here, because I'll be able to get it dialed, then hit a button to save the tab setting. Right now it's kinda shooting in the dark, since I have no indication of tab/actuator position.

what's the ballpark price of the other controller?

Looks like an amazing project. you definitely have some great skills and tools to work with. Metal fab is outside my scope of ability. :-(

Tabs can definitely be tricky. I was recently in a Max with 3k ballast and autowake and the wave had no push. it was really disappointing. Like my XLV with 500 pounds kinda push. I couldn't believe it. (I was told by a friend that the tabs were too far down and it was likely lifting the stern).

[stevemarich]

Was definitely a fun wave, lots of push a good length

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[Shoebox]

what's the ballpark price of the other controller?

Looks like an amazing project. you definitely have some great skills and tools to work with. Metal fab is outside my scope of ability. :-(

Tabs can definitely be tricky. I was recently in a Max with 3k ballast and autowake and the wave had no push. it was really disappointing. Like my XLV with 500 pounds kinda push. I couldn't believe it. (I was told by a friend that the tabs were too far down and it was likely lifting the stern).Thanks!

A friend is making the controller for me for the cost of parts. In return I'm going to make him a set of tabs for cost of parts.

I had to pay for cutting and bending, these needed to be pretty precise. The shorter set I'll just cut with a saw because they don't need the waterjet precision.

[Shoebox]

Was definitely a fun wave, lots of push a good length

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkYeah when I get home we'll have to get out and try the shorter tabs. I should have them cut today. Picked up the aluminum yesterday.

[stevemarich]

Yeah when I get home we'll have to get out and try the shorter tabs. I should have them cut today. Picked up the aluminum yesterday.Definitely, R&D is always fun behind a boat

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[trayson]

Thanks!

A friend is making the controller for me for the cost of parts. In return I'm going to make him a set of tabs for cost of parts.

I had to pay for cutting and bending, these needed to be pretty precise. The shorter set I'll just cut with a saw because they don't need the waterjet precision.

Sounds like you guys make a great team!!! I remember making my manual version of the NSS system on my Supra Sunsport and that was a pretty cool adventure. Not sure if I'll ever get around to jumping from a DIY suck gate to a full blown automated system, but it's cool to see you're jumping in. I'd imagine if I ever get to the point where I feel I need to do transfers, LOL.

Keep up the good work. The fit and finish is on point.

[Shoebox]

Definitely, R&D is always fun behind a boat

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkController is just waiting on waterproof buttons. The ones he got most recently weren't waterproof. Fingers crossed he gets it done before I get home next week!

[Shoebox]

Sounds like you guys make a great team!!! I remember making my manual version of the NSS system on my Supra Sunsport and that was a pretty cool adventure. Not sure if I'll ever get around to jumping from a DIY suck gate to a full blown automated system, but it's cool to see you're jumping in. I'd imagine if I ever get to the point where I feel I need to do transfers, LOL.

Keep up the good work. The fit and finish is on point.If you have a flat transom, the surf gates are far easier and cheaper. My transom just wasn't going to work with those.

[stevemarich]

Controller is just waiting on waterproof buttons. The ones he got most recently weren't waterproof. Fingers crossed he gets it done before I get home next week!That would be sweet if it made it in time , our transfer try on Monday was a little comical , would definitely be better with the controller

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[stevemarich]

Tim and Erin are going to make it out Saturday, I'll get some more practice setting up the goofy wave

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[Shoebox]

Tim and Erin are going to make it out Saturday, I'll get some more practice setting up the goofy wave

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkThat's awesome! Tim might be buying a new boat after going out with you! [emoji23]. Although his 03 MC X10 throws a pretty monster wave. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180905/cf7c6d1a2739e6c6027e8ad1f515242a.jpg

[stevemarich]

That's awesome! Tim might be buying a new boat after going out with you! [emoji23]. Although his 03 MC X10 throws a pretty monster wave. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180905/cf7c6d1a2739e6c6027e8ad1f515242a.jpgThat does look pretty good, hopefully I get it dialed pretty quick, only set up for goofy a couple of times, and everyone was a beginner

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[Shoebox]

Getting started on the smaller test tabs. There will be a 1", 45° bend where the line is on the right, both for rigidity and to help direct the water.

No Waterjet this time, since they don't need to be quite so precise. Used a circular saw, and got them within 1/16". Not too bad. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180906/d2c1b0a53c47618265515058fbc99860.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180906/7b5b7763df1a1678d1f9c7ee38891f4a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180906/fa2913db22607259c5a5c055600ffa49.jpg

[trayson]

If you have a flat transom, the surf gates are far easier and cheaper. My transom just wasn't going to work with those.

Well, the rear transom of the XLV isn't anywhere close to flat. But who knows what'd be possible. it's hard to argue with a $15 DIY suck gate for now.

[Shoebox]

Well, the rear transom of the XLV isn't anywhere close to flat. But who knows what'd be possible. it's hard to argue with a $15 DIY suck gate for now.Yeah, unfortunately I have this compulsive need to tinker with my shit. [emoji23]

[trayson]

Yeah, unfortunately I have this compulsive need to tinker with my shit. [emoji23]

Oh, I'm 1000% guilty on that. The mod list on my boat is longer than the list of OEM items. And I still have stuff purchased for mods I'm going to do but haven't had time to install yet.

The tabs are just a bit too far out of reach $$$ these days. Maybe eventually.

[MJHSupra]

Yeah, unfortunately I have this compulsive need to tinker with my shit. [emoji23]That is funny!! That is why we are all on here - sharing more ideas to take morE shit apart.

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[Tydogg]

This is looking badass !! Very well done sir .....please continue the thread until that wave does over the next boat Haha!!

[Shoebox]

This is looking badass !! Very well done sir .....please continue the thread until that wave does over the next boat Haha!!Thanks! I'm out of town at work for a week, get back Wednesday. I did get the edges of the plates smoothed out, as well as the lower actuator mounts.

I had to rethink those a bit from the original design, because they're made from 2" aluminum square tube, 1/8" wall. With one side removed, they squeeze down on the end of the actuator a bit, and I wanted to remove that little bit of binding. So I left that little strip at the top to eliminate the flex.

When I get home, I'll pull the boat out and swap out the tabs, and give them a shot. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180910/82fc30f7f1691b64a29c0259dfa2c75f.jpg

[Shoebox]

Well I got lucky and had a mid tour overnight at home. Got the boat out of the water today and got started installing the smaller tabs. Got about halfway through installing one side before I got called back to the airport.

Is there anyone with Autowake tabs who can measure the max down angle as compared to the bottom of the boat? (That is, bottom of the boat being 0°)

Trying to work out where to put the lower actuator mount.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180911/79ee38edab739ea40098f7a5092c53cf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180911/f1e9481a900d738164383aad59d84496.jpg

[stevemarich]

If no one pipes up you can have Tim call me and he can go measure my craz, if he's up for it I won't be back till Saturday ish

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[Shoebox]

If no one pipes up you can have Tim call me and he can go measure my craz, if he's up for it I won't be back till Saturday ish

Sent from my Pixel 2 using TapatalkThanks man. I'll be back Wednesday, I could do it then. Or maybe sooner, my plane here in GEG is in maintenance. Might be going back home here in a bit. [emoji106]

[stevemarich]

Sweet, let me know , I'll send you a drop pin to the shop and give you the combo

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[Shoebox]

Awesome, thanks! You'll have to walk me through how to deploy a tab 100%.

[stevemarich]

Awesome, thanks! You'll have to walk me through how to deploy a tab 100%.Yep , definitely can do that

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[Shoebox]

I went to the dealer and measured the Autoflow tab angle on a Craz Pro (effing awesome boat, BTW). The tabs are at 30° at 100% deployment. Seems many run them around 60%, which was 20°.

At any rate, it gave me something to work with for setting my tab angles. I had originally made lower brackets that had a single hole for the actuator. But I decided I wanted to have some adjustability. I made a couple different versions today, but ended up with a design I like. They have 4 actuator holes (of which only 3 are really usable) which will provide 18, 24, and 30 degrees of deployment. I also made it so I can move the mount itself a half inch to change the angles more.

I also made diversion fins for the bottom of the tabs, 2 on each. I'll see how these work, and may play with the angles a bit with those as well. They are currently set at 60° from the transom.

I need to pick up some more screws to finish mounting the port tab, but otherwise they're ready to test. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180915/b41e6b79c297db31ded9ca81d5ead9ae.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180915/e7bab793539c1bc36c271974d06da95b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180915/b0eba8e63e83c8b410931623e3d67800.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180915/16ec8e75d6f383ccc121ddf4937e0c1b.jpg

[Shoebox]

I went on a demo of a 2018 Axis A22. It's cool to see the new boats, different newer tech, etc. But it also made me realize that a $95k boat doesn't throw a significantly better wave than my Mondo.

I got the second set of tabs completely installed today, and took it out for a test surf. These smaller tabs worked better than the GSA-style tabs I made first.

I had them set to 23° max deploy angle. On both the regular and goofy sides I had to bump them up from max. I'm going to try the 18° lower mount position to see if the wave is good at max deploy of 18°.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180916/117eec257750e46b5db208c8ad33da6b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180916/8b9b8605f234fbb99ec7c480c99e3a63.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180916/8fe0256e999c20f28aee0e07246aa2af.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180916/5e90d090c286d68db6cdaed63b182af1.jpg

[dakota4ce]

An Axis A22 is 95k?

Do you you get a free T23 with that?


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[dakota4ce]

I went on a demo of a 2018 Axis A22. It's cool to see the new boats, different newer tech, etc. But it also made me realize that a $95k boat doesn't throw a significantly better wave than my Mondo.

I got the second set of tabs completely installed today, and took it out for a test surf. These smaller tabs worked better than the GSA-style tabs I made first.

I had them set to 23° max deploy angle. On both the regular and goofy sides I had to bump them up from max. I'm going to try the 18° lower mount position to see if the wave is good at max deploy of 18°.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180916/117eec257750e46b5db208c8ad33da6b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180916/8b9b8605f234fbb99ec7c480c99e3a63.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180916/8fe0256e999c20f28aee0e07246aa2af.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180916/5e90d090c286d68db6cdaed63b182af1.jpg

With enough displacement and a decent device such as the tabs you just fabbed, a wave is a wave. People don’t always cite “a better wave” as the reason they would buy a newer, more expensive boat. You could put tabs on a 1975 Century Arabian and sack it out and get the same result.

There is often an ongoing assault on newer boats (usually with a mention of their price) from people with older boats. The fact is, with enough ingenuity, dedication, weight you can make a nice wave on most any boat. It’s not magic.

New boats offer a ton of things that people want that aren’t wave related. And they often need dialing of their own to work well as well.

[parrothd]

With enough displacement and a decent device such as the tabs you just fabbed, a wave is a wave. People don’t always cite “a better wave” as the reason they would buy a newer, more expensive boat. You could put tabs on a 1975 Century Arabian and sack it out and get the same result.

There is often an ongoing assault on newer boats (usually with a mention of their price) from people with older boats. The fact is, with enough ingenuity, dedication, weight you can make a nice wave on most any boat. It’s not magic.

New boats offer a ton of things that people want that aren’t wave related. And they often need dialing of their own to work well as well.
I don't think you riden the new surf boats...lol..

No amount of tinkering is going to match something that's been engineered to do it. I upgraded specifically to get a newer hull for the best wave I could afford.

[dakota4ce]

Bruh.....Me? Or the OP?


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[stevemarich]

An Axis A22 is 95k?

Do you you get a free T23 with that?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThat was the price on it, had every option available. Definitely wouldn't spend 95k on it.

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[Shoebox]

An Axis A22 is 95k?

Do you you get a free T23 with that?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe salesman told us he just sold an identical boat for $86k. The sticker on the one they had with almost no options was $75k. I sure as hell wouldn't pay that for that boat.

[Shoebox]

With enough displacement and a decent device such as the tabs you just fabbed, a wave is a wave. People don’t always cite “a better wave” as the reason they would buy a newer, more expensive boat. You could put tabs on a 1975 Century Arabian and sack it out and get the same result.

There is often an ongoing assault on newer boats (usually with a mention of their price) from people with older boats. The fact is, with enough ingenuity, dedication, weight you can make a nice wave on most any boat. It’s not magic.

New boats offer a ton of things that people want that aren’t wave related. And they often need dialing of their own to work well as well.That boat had nothing on it better than my 2014 Mondo, except the Power Wedge and the surfer remote that can control switching sides, speed, and music volume (that thing was cool as hell). Neither of those things make it worth double what I have in my boat.

The power wedge gave him superior control of wave height and length over anything Moomba or Supra have. However, it's not worth a 10k premium on a loaded Craz, or a 20k premium on a loaded Max. The best thing about that boat was its ability to make a great wave right off the showroom floor. It didn't need any extra tinkering or ballast added.

[Leebo]

I went to the dealer and measured the Autoflow tab angle....The tabs are at 30° at 100% deployment. Seems many run them around 60%, which was 20°....At any rate, it gave me something to work with for setting my tab angles.... They have 4 actuator holes (of which only 3 are really usable) which will provide 18, 24, and 30 degrees of deployment.... I also made diversion fins for the bottom of the tabs, 2 on each.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180915/16ec8e75d6f383ccc121ddf4937e0c1b.jpg

Seriously awesome work here!!!

Thx for digging into this. I’ve been thinking goose slappers but my hull shape has a lot of curves but is flat at the bottom of the transom where you mounted the tabs.

[Shoebox]

Seriously awesome work here!!!

Thx for digging into this. I’ve been thinking goose slappers but my hull shape has a lot of curves but is flat at the bottom of the transom where you mounted the tabs.I think the LSV has more curvature than the Mondo, but not sure. The piano hinges can take a small amount of curve without any binding. Even if so, you could make an adapter to account for it. Or you could call Wakeland and see if they will sell you their hinge adapter.

As far as surf gates, I wouldn't do it. There is a LOT of pressure from the water, and where you'd have to mount the hinges would allow a lot of twisting force on them.

This is the total curve where my hinge is mounted.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180916/98d3064586495b74aae55ecf25fb7a06.jpg

These are on Great Lakes Skipper, but you can see the adapter piece that Wakeland makes.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180916/fefb6760068f65bf0d83e6749a9c8050.jpg

[Leebo]

... Or you could call Wakeland and see if they will sell you their hinge adapter.


Thx for that. I can’t figure out why they include a shim for the LSV. Where the transom meets the bottom there’s a long flat section that would be perfect for the hinges. Not sure why I couldn’t use the same piano hinges you used.

https://forum.moomba.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27666&d=1537126779

[Shoebox]

I guess the newer LSV transom is different.

[Shoebox]

Thx for that. I can’t figure out why they include a shim for the LSV. Where the transom meets the bottom there’s a long flat section that would be perfect for the hinges. Not sure why I couldn’t use the same piano hinges you used.

https://forum.moomba.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=27666&d=1537126779Looking at your transom, the shape above the flat could make it tough to get an actuator to work. How much room do you have outboard of the swim step bracket mounting surface for the hinge? You'd have to be creative with the tab shape too, to clear that bump.

Definitely doable, but you'll need to do some serious mockup before you buy any expensive pieces.

[Tydogg]

ShoeBox....when are you starting production on these bad boys?? Haha !!

[Shoebox]

ShoeBox....when are you starting production on these bad boys?? Haha !!Lol! There's a reason the commercial kits are so expensive.

I could probably make a simple kit with the Lenco LED switches (for relatively easy repeatability), but it would still be probably upward of $1500. I suppose if there was enough interest I could do it, but I'd have to find a shop that can cut and bend quantities of the tabs for a reasonable cost.

[Tydogg]

Understand completely!! I'm going to take your measurements to a local shop here in town and see what they would charge to fab some up with heavy hinges also as I have been following this thread hardcore lol !!

[Tydogg]

Lol! There's a reason the commercial kits are so expensive.

I could probably make a simple kit with the Lenco LED switches (for relatively easy repeatability), but it would still be probably upward of $1500. I suppose if there was enough interest I could do it, but I'd have to find a shop that can cut and bend quantities of the tabs for a reasonable cost.

I believe anything under 2k you would have guys jump n at the bit brother !! I would be that's for dam sure

[Shoebox]

I believe anything under 2k you would have guys jump n at the bit brother !! I would be that's for dam sureSold! $1999 and it's all yours! [emoji6]

[Shoebox]

Understand completely!! I'm going to take your measurements to a local shop here in town and see what they would charge to fab some up with heavy hinges also as I have been following this thread hardcore lol !!Probably a couple hundred for the material, cutting, and bending.

I'd have them do the smaller tabs though. Those GSA-style are YUUUGE!

BTW, don't go by the measurements written on the tabs, the dimensions are actually a bit different than that.

[Shoebox]

The absolute most important thing you can do to save yourself a LOT of headache and trouble is to have the shop who fabs these for you ensure that both the tabs and hinges have perfect 2-inch on center (or whatever screw spacing you choose) matching holes. If you make them yourself, find something (like an existing hinge) that has that spacing to use as a template.

[Tydogg]

[QUOTE=Shoebox;332633]Sold! $1999 and it's all yours! Is that with shipping ? ����

[Shoebox]

Is that with shipping ?
Um...to lower 48, sure.

[Shoebox]

Tab head-to-head test was yesterday.

I went out with some buddies (we all surf regular) to test both sets of tabs I made to see if one is better.

We filled all the bags (1100s rear, 400 center, 750 IBS, and a 400 on the floor in the pass through) and 150 lead in each locker, 50 under right rear seat, 150 on surf side rear floor, 170 under bow filler cushion. So just about 4k total. 3 guys at 210ish and 1 girl maybe 140.

The first set were the smaller of the 2. At 11.0 and wakeplate up, the wave was great, big with lots of push. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180920/11c5e578eea3b64e872a20c638c376a6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180920/1af60682072601e2dc188aa34217af5d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180920/5daafcdf3c39e38207333862713b160b.jpg

[Shoebox]

Then we went back to the dock where I swapped out the starboard tab for the larger, black one. The pic shows the size difference between the two.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180920/73d9236c90156d809e99026c6e92f824.jpg

[Shoebox]

We went back out and surfed the black tab, same weight and placement, just less gas. If I didn't tell you the tabs were different, you probably wouldn't know the difference. But the wave seemed a little bit larger, a little bit longer, and a little more push. It also seemed "harder" or firmer. It was kind of weird and took some getting used to.

The most surprising thing was how little downward angle the tabs had for the best wave. I measured the silver set just before swapping out, and it was only 5° down. I wasn't able to measure the black set, but the angle was similar.

Overall, I'm torn on which set I'm keeping. I like that the black set wave is a tiny bit better, but I also like how much smaller the silver set is. Decisions, decisions... https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180920/1aab0d2eb17c384e68e755860130112a.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180920/05b30dd523b06b65a72d50096dfa09a5.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180920/b43259a8b1b0e44bdcfca6077573c542.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180920/8d15cf9b62ccf5c1938b9ce513d58a1f.jpg

[dakota4ce]

Well, since you copied the GSA tab perfectly I think you have discovered why that system is quite remarkable. There is a TON of R+D behind those tabs, and they are for sure legit.

Granted, the improvement is marginal, because even your small tabs accomplish 95% of the key tenants of making a wave. But the GSA design puts a little frosting on top.

I admire those tabs a great deal. Those guys indeed made a great product. Enough to receive a patent despite aggressive Malibu patent protection. That’s saying something.

People often complain about the cost of GSA, but there is a difference. I had a set on my MB and was always impressed!


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[Broke Pilot]

No ones gonna go for the bigger, blacker joke? I’m kinda disappointed in y’all... lol
Dude, those tabs are awesome, nice work. With the black tab, did you have to run the same deployment or less? Did you notice more roll since it displaced more water?

[Shoebox]

Well, since you copied the GSA tab perfectly I think you have discovered why that system is quite remarkable. There is a TON of R+D behind those tabs, and they are for sure legit.Honestly, they are not remarkable enough to justify the price tag. Like I said, if I didn't tell you there were different tabs there, I don't think you'd notice the difference.

If I were going to spend $4k on a system, I'd buy the Wakeland retrofit and have the dealer install it.

Granted, the improvement is marginal, because even your small tabs accomplish 95% of the key tenants of making a wave. But the GSA design puts a little frosting on top.

I admire those tabs a great deal. Those guys indeed made a great product. Enough to receive a patent despite aggressive Malibu patent protection. That’s saying something.

People often complain about the cost of GSA, but there is a difference. I had a set on my MB and was always impressed!
They are a quality product, just overpriced for me. Even if I bought the Wake Logic controller for the silver tabs, I'd be at maybe half the cost of the GSA kit.

I have $350 total in the black ones, and currently $60 in the silver ones.

Deciding which one I keep is going to be tough. Does the marginally better wave outweigh the benefits of the physically smaller tab? (less temptation for people to use it as a step, less leverage and force on the hinges and transom)

[Shoebox]

No ones gonna go for the bigger, blacker joke? I’m kinda disappointed in y’all... lol
Dude, those tabs are awesome, nice work. With the black tab, did you have to run the same deployment or less? Did you notice more roll since it displaced more water?

They were pretty close to the same deployment. I wasn't able to measure it because we were in the middle of the lake and I didn't want to drop my phone. Basically, the best wave was at the minimum deployment required to make a wave.

There was not a lot of roll with either one.

[dakota4ce]

Honestly, they are not remarkable enough to justify the price tag. Like I said, if I didn't tell you there were different tabs there, I don't think you'd notice the difference.

If I were going to spend $4k on a system, I'd buy the Wakeland retrofit and have the dealer install it.
They are a quality product, just overpriced for me. Even if I bought the Wake Logic controller for the silver tabs, I'd be at maybe half the cost of the GSA kit.

I have $350 total in the black ones, and currently $60 in the silver ones.

Deciding which one I keep is going to be tough. Does the marginally better wave outweigh the benefits of the physically smaller tab? (less temptation for people to use it as a step, less leverage and force on the hinges and transom)

I think you missed my point just slightly, 99% of people don’t have the time or skills to fabricate their own. I would say the guy invented and has fielded a pretty sweet little system, and has sold a lot of them, whether not you think it’s worth it? You obviously thought it was worth it enough to photocopy a patented product, so there must be some degree of appreciation. You would not have known where to start if those didn’t exist.

And yes the channeling of flow on those tabs is remarkable. No one has ever done anything quite like that. And you yourself, with slightly less weight, noticed the effect of that little invention.

Never mind the controller, which is a beautiful little piece. Everyone thinks everything is overpriced these days, but it really has way more to do with the entire cost of going scratch to fielded system rather than the cost of some aluminum and fabrication time for a one off copy like yours. Much more complicated than that.

I have a great deal of admiration for Ryan and his system! I don’t think he is a guy out there getting rich off of it, either. But he has sold a lot of them.


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[dakota4ce]

Also “$350” and “$60” is quite misleading when you’ve spent hours researching planning and assembling these things. Yes?

Sorry for the rant, I just think that GSA is pretty cool and everyone ragging on it all the time because it costs money doesn’t make a lot of sense.

If you want the best, they are the best.

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[Shoebox]

Also “$350” and “$60” is quite misleading when you’ve spent hours researching planning and assembling these things. Yes?

Sorry for the rant, I just think that GSA is pretty cool and everyone ragging on it all the time because it costs money doesn’t make a lot of sense.

If you want the best, they are the best.

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Like I said, FOR ME, it's overpriced. Yes, it absolutely is a good system. Yes, I copied it because people like you raved about it, and I had the desire to do so. I have never built anything like that before, so if I can do it, anyone can. To make the smaller set, all anyone needs is a circular saw, a drill, a sander, and some metal.

I haven't heard anyone say anything bad about GSA other than how expensive it is. Obviously, the quality is top-notch, as is the controller. Honestly, I'd guess that most of the value is in the controller.

[dakota4ce]

Roger that. Sorry I got triggered. And you can get that system for about $3500 really if you watch sales and discounts. Still a good chunk for sure. But short of working metal, it’s a good option.


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[Shoebox]

Roger that. Sorry I got triggered. And you can get that system for about $3500 really if you watch sales and discounts. Still a good chunk for sure. But short of working metal, it’s a good option.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYou are right, it absolutely is, especially for people who don't have the Wakeland retrofit option.

[Leebo]

We went back out and surfed the black tab, same weight and placement, just less gas...

Curious abt the “less gas” result. Lower RPMs? Thx!

[Shoebox]

Curious abt the “less gas” result. Lower RPMs? Thx!We started with a full tank with the silver tabs. Didn't fill back up to test the black ones. Although 11.0 mph with the silver tabs was 3200 rpm, with the black it was 3400.

[Medicsrus]

I just joined the group, This is a great post. If i had the money I would love to buy some, I would love to make some of these for my 2008 XLV. The measurements on the paper you shared in the first few posts, Is that before bent or do I need to add them to those measurements? Thanks

[Shoebox]

I just joined the group, This is a great post. If i had the money I would love to buy some, I would love to make some of these for my 2008 XLV. The measurements on the paper you shared in the first few posts, Is that before bent or do I need to add them to those measurements? ThanksI wouldn't go by those measurements, they're the first diagrams I made by basically guessing at sizes. If you want to make a set, I'd make the second ones I made. Simpler, one bend, and they work nearly the same.

[Medicsrus]

Oh ok. The back of my 2008 xlv is flat where the tabs mount, but then it rounds out and up. Let me see if I can et a picture loaded. I was even wondering if the actuator would even work on either one of them.

[Medicsrus]

27779
This is what my transom looks like. I'm not sure the actuator would mount on the slope without being to long.

[Medicsrus]

I made a diy surf gate, and it works good. I just want something that everyone in the boat can sit wherever while surfing.

[Shoebox]

27779
This is what my transom looks like. I'm not sure the actuator would mount on the slope without being to long.That transom looks like it would be difficult for many reasons. There's a ton of lateral curve where you'd put the hinges. You'd need to make a spacer/adapter so the hinge sits flat. You could likely make the actuators work, mine sit about 1-1/4" above the hinge. The curve just means you'd probably have to make the tabs a bit longer than the 14" of my silver tabs.

[Shoebox]

I made a diy surf gate, and it works good. I just want something that everyone in the boat can sit wherever while surfing.For the best wave, you still need to get more weight on the surf side. I still move people around.

[Medicsrus]

Thanks for your replies and advice. I bought this boat in July and really enjoy the surfing. I would just like to make it more convenient for myself if I wanted to switch sides. I would also like to wire the tabs so as when you put one down the other raises. I think all I would have to do is wire a relay to reverse the polarity when a down switch was pressed the relay would close and reverse the polarity of the actuator that is already down. Anyway thanks again Shoebox.

[Shoebox]

Thanks for your replies and advice. I bought this boat in July and really enjoy the surfing. I would just like to make it more convenient for myself if I wanted to switch sides. I would also like to wire the tabs so as when you put one down the other raises. I think all I would have to do is wire a relay to reverse the polarity when a down switch was pressed the relay would close and reverse the polarity of the actuator that is already down. Anyway thanks again Shoebox.

I would think you could pretty easily wire a 3-switch setup so that one switch controls each tab individually, like mine is set up now, and a 3rd switch for transfers that pressed right extends the left and retracts the right, and vice versa. If the controller I'm waiting on isn't finished by next spring I may add the 3rd switch as well.

The only real issue with that is the ability to get the right deployment on the extended tab in the transfer.

[Medicsrus]

I see what your saying, the third switch would be the best route. Keep us posted on the controller, what would he charge to make another one if your works good do you think?

[Shoebox]

I see what your saying, the third switch would be the best route. Keep us posted on the controller, what would he charge to make another one if your works good do you think?I'm not building the controller. I'm trading my silver tabs for it, to the guy who is. He's going to post the code and parts list for it at some point. When he does, I'll link to it.

[Medicsrus]

Sounds good, I have been doing some research on a motor controller using a potentiometer to control the tabs. I would like to put it on a slide pot. Just so you could see by the slide where the tabs are. Thanks shoebox.

[Shoebox]

Slide pot is an interesting idea. Mine will have a rotary dial, but position would not be indicated by the dial because it would take more than one full turn to fully extend/retract the tab. If I remember correctly, it's 200ms per click of the knob. Of course that could be adjusted in the software, especially considering I would never be going to full extension.

[jestes]

Did you ever get your controller or are you still using this system manually? I plan to build a set of plates similar to your smaller ones and I am starting a fully automated system design and build to run it. I've already got the code and a crude UI to control the actuators as well as control speed of the boat. My boat did not come with Perfect Pass, so I started by building my own and it has morphed into something similar to Auto Wake.

I just started a thread over on Wake Garage if you are interested in taking a look.
https://www.wakegarage.com/forums/topic/989-complete-surf-system-touch-screen-arduino-based-speed-ballast-and-surf-device-control/

[MJHSupra]

Did you ever get your controller or are you still using this system manually? I plan to build a set of plates similar to your smaller ones and I am starting a fully automated system design and build to run it. I've already got the code and a crude UI to control the actuators as well as control speed of the boat. My boat did not come with Perfect Pass, so I started by building my own and it has morphed into something similar to Auto Wake.

I just started a thread over on Wake Garage if you are interested in taking a look.
https://www.wakegarage.com/forums/topic/989-complete-surf-system-touch-screen-arduino-based-speed-ballast-and-surf-device-control/

Last I knew, Shoebox sold his 2019 Supra and no longer visits this forum much.

Sounds like you have a cool project going on.