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View Full Version : Help! After 10 years with the Moomba leaning towards a new Axis A24



z28ke
04-19-2018, 05:26 PM
I’m going into the 11th season with my 2008 OBV that I bought new at 26 years old. It has been an amazing boat with many memories, but it’s time for something NEW AND BIG. I’m planning on putting it for sale as soon as it hits the water the next few weeks, and looking to order something exactly how I want it. I’m not in a huge rush so it might be early next season for a 2019 model.

I would be all over a new mojo or max but I’m having a really hard time with the ford engines in the new moombas. I have been a diehard Chevy guy since middle school and own 2 Z28 Camaros, a 69 shortbed C10, a 72 longbed C10, and my daily driver is a 2010 Silverado 1500 with a 6.2 in it.

Am I crazy???

Does anyone have 1st or 2nd hand experience with the Axis line?

I’ve been to the dealer and checked out an A24 and liked it a lot, but moomba seems like more for money (maybe even less money) but I’m having major trouble getting past the engine.

Thoughts?

trayson
04-19-2018, 05:49 PM
Yes, my thoughts are get over it. Ford vs. Chevy is like Coke vs. Pepsi, but it's not like you're having to drink the engine. The Raptor engine is a great power plant. And I'm sure so are your Chevy engines. In a boat, you put gas in and they all make a certain number of HP. and with the hatch closed, you wouldn't even know what's under the hood.

Axis makes a great boat and puts out a fantastic wakeboard wake. But there is a noticeable difference to a lot of us and that's what likely keeps us here. Not the "unnoticeable" difference of what sticker is on your engine covers...

ky_coop
04-19-2018, 06:02 PM
Maybe moomba will drop a 24ft boat for 2019. I've heard some new stuff is coming

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KnoxMojo
04-19-2018, 06:19 PM
I had the very first Axis A22 built in Tennessee in 2009. Really wanted to love that boat, but after 3 years and 3 winters at the factory trying to get it sorted out, the dealer made me a smoking deal on a Recon Edition. It had the 350hp engine, heaters, every bell and whistle. I loved that boat. Sold it after a couple years and bought a Tige, no idea why I even bought it. 6 months later, sold it and bought our current 2015 Mojo. It has been the absolute best boat I have ever owned. There is no way I could ever go back to an Axis, The Mojo is better in every way. And yes, the Raptor 6.2 is an absolute beast and in 400 form, has tons of power and fairly fuel efficient.

tater
04-19-2018, 06:29 PM
Just keep in mind that for 2019 Malibu will marinize there own motors in house as they do there own trailers also, There Quality has gone down hill since they went public with there stocks,visit the Malibu Crew forum some nightmare stories on there.

rdlangston13
04-19-2018, 06:47 PM
I thought Axis uses Indmar Raptors as well? I have a buddy with a Malibu 25 LSV with a raptor 440 in it.


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KnoxMojo
04-19-2018, 06:56 PM
You know, I do believe they went to Raptor now that you mention it. My friends '16 23LSV has the Raptor. Does Chevy even make a marine engine? Though I read somewhere that GM wasn't producing the 5.7l block any longer?

rdlangston13
04-19-2018, 06:58 PM
Natique uses the GM 5.3 with direct injection I believe and I think they also use the 6.2 still


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MJHSupra
04-19-2018, 07:48 PM
That is what I thought. Raptor. Moonsoon. Different label.

I know some people left the company when they went public. Said it was a big change in the corp culture.

When you go public, all things change. Lived thru a software company doing it. Expectations suck. Cutting cost. Increased productivity. Grind. Always looking for faster and better methods to save a dollar.


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Broke Pilot
04-19-2018, 09:04 PM
I had a major problem with going to a raptor engine also... I talked to a lot of people on here about it before we bought. There’s a thread somewhere, probly back around August-ish of last year. I’m a die hard Chevy/Mopar (Cummins only though) guy. But the only way to get a Chevy now is PCM engines who is now owned by the parent company of nautique/supreme/Centurion. The new LS based motors with direct injection are beasts (not the 5.3L though lol) I wish skiers choice could get in on PCM but ya can’t win em all.
After playing with our new SA only a couple times, the Raptor motor is a good one so far as I can tell. The torque is incredible even on the 400 and it’s pretty dang fuel efficient. There is something to be said for a modular motor with heads that can breathe. It’s only a matter of time before GM goes modular with OHC. The efficiency can’t be beat. Period. The LS is getting old comparatively with how manufacturers move to the new bigger better... GM is just behind the times doing everything possible to keep the push rod LS alive for a while longer.

Edo88
04-19-2018, 09:58 PM
I like the axis I think they look damn good. As far as the motor is concerned I was hesitant too especially being a Ram cummins guy. But for the last few summers my buddies moomba has pulled me a lot and never had any issues with his raptor and the price point features etc was a easy decision for me on the moomba. I still catch hell for owing something ford lol but I don’t care I love my mojo. And besides the way I see it, it’s a dodge pulling a ford. And honestly I’d lease a ford truck if my truck wasn’t about to be paid off


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dakota4ce
04-19-2018, 10:39 PM
You know, I do believe they went to Raptor now that you mention it. My friends '16 23LSV has the Raptor. Does Chevy even make a marine engine? Though I read somewhere that GM wasn't producing the 5.7l block any longer?

Axis uses GM based Indmars. 5.7 and 6.0 I think. Malibu uses the Ford Raptor Indmars.


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dakota4ce
04-19-2018, 10:41 PM
And, for the love of all things good, getting an Axis because it has a GM motor is Cra Cra man! The Moomba boat and surf wave crushes Axis!


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Broke Pilot
04-20-2018, 12:09 AM
[QUOTE=dakota4ce;323742]Axis uses GM based Indmars. 5.7 and 6.0 I think. Malibu uses the Ford Raptor Indmars.


Indmar only has Ford Raptors now. PCM bought all the rights to GM based engines.
And yes Axis does use the Crusader (which is PCM) Monsoon engines. I can’t believe PCM and Indmar aren’t fighting over Axis/Malibu since they use different engines down the ‘same’ assembly line.

But I’m with Dakota... the moomba supra wave crushes the surf gate system in my opinion. When I demo’d an axis a few years back i felt like the boat needed power steering to help the driver fight the surf gate. The force it puts on the wheel is pretty good.

Shoebox
04-20-2018, 12:18 AM
Am I crazy???
Yes. [emoji6]

I've always been a Ford guy, but I drive a 2015 Chevy 3500 Duramax. Why? Because it's as good a truck as the Ford, and I couldn't have gotten a comparably-equipped Ford for anywhere near the price I got on my Chevy. I love my truck - but I'm still a Ford guy. [emoji23]

Whether my boat had a Ford or GM motor was not even a consideration. I do wish it had the Raptor though (2014, no Raptor motor yet).

z28ke
04-20-2018, 06:10 AM
Thanks for all the input guys, especially the experience with surf waves. I have not ridden behind or driven an axis or a newer moomba. It’s also good to hear that everyone seems pleased with their raptor power plant.

We actually just got a moomba dealer in town that is 5 miles closer to me than the axis dealer. Back in 2008 the closest moomba dealer was about 80 miles away.

Does anyone know if the max will have better gel color patterns/options for 2019?

Here’s some pics of my pride and joy for the last decade

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/59c40e7bc6551388a209389c20fbf6f6.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180420/83bb4edd7308942bd1815c83f0d91122.jpg

dakota4ce
04-20-2018, 08:39 AM
[QUOTE=dakota4ce;323742]Axis uses GM based Indmars. 5.7 and 6.0 I think. Malibu uses the Ford Raptor Indmars.


Indmar only has Ford Raptors now. PCM bought all the rights to GM based engines.
And yes Axis does use the Crusader (which is PCM) Monsoon engines. I can’t believe PCM and Indmar aren’t fighting over Axis/Malibu since they use different engines down the ‘same’ assembly line.

But I’m with Dakota... the moomba supra wave crushes the surf gate system in my opinion. When I demo’d an axis a few years back i felt like the boat needed power steering to help the driver fight the surf gate. The force it puts on the wheel is pretty good.

So I was right about them being GM, but wrong about them being Indmar! I will accept that as a team win. [emoji471]

I, like you, find it peculiar that everybody is cool with that. The Crusaders must be significantly cheaper.


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rdlangston13
04-20-2018, 08:44 AM
The 5.7 liter GM motors don’t have closed loop cooling which I am sure makes them much less expensive


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DFTR Josh
04-20-2018, 09:20 AM
Thanks for all the input guys, especially the experience with surf waves. I have not ridden behind or driven an axis or a newer moomba. It’s also good to hear that everyone seems pleased with their raptor power plant.

We actually just got a moomba dealer in town that is 5 miles closer to me than the axis dealer. Back in 2008 the closest moomba dealer was about 80 miles away.

Does anyone know if the max will have better gel color patterns/options for 2019?
I hope you take a demo in the MAX vs the Axis, it's a lot of boat and performance out of the box.
Look at yor rocking something Wakeology! I used to ride for them before they sold out to new owners. Haven't seen anything from them lately...

supra.d
04-20-2018, 09:27 AM
Here is my take on GM vs Ford.

I was a Chevy guy my whole life, but since GM couldn’t look after their own sh*t and started bleeding money back in the Great Recession to the point they took a government bail out just to stay in business, and wiped out the value of their common share price, I jumped ship to Ford. I bought GM stock and lost everything I put into it, if I had bought Ford at the same time, my money would have multiplied by over 6 times. Yes, I know Ford took government money at the time, but they said they didn’t need it, and they were able to return value to their shareholders.

GM is a company that shouldn’t even be in business today and deserves love from nobody.

Sorry for being so negative, just a little sour. I too would still run a GM if they have a product I’m wanting or in the market for, but in no way will I throw them love just because of the brand.





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dakota4ce
04-20-2018, 09:47 AM
Lest we not forget: the Raptor kicks some major ass in these boats. It pulls HARD. I came from a 24’ 4600# MB with an L96 410. Ran 5000# ballast and that motor barely handled it (actually struggled on hot days) and DRANK fuel. 9+ gallons per hour. Also had to run a 15x11 prop to even sniff it.

Now I have an SE with a 440 Raptor. 5500# boat, 5100# ballast and it easily pulls it at 3700 rpm with a 2775 prop. All this while doing 5.5-6 gallons per hour. It’s absolutely insane how well this motor pulls.

The fuel burn is just icing on the cake.

Raptor has nothing but impressed me. Only knock—it’s kinda loud, but that’s the boatmakers fault. I have dynamatted and installed FAE to take care of that.


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korey
04-20-2018, 09:51 AM
The shoe is finally on the other foot for me! I've got a Coyote powered race car, 2 F100's (300 straight 6 and 390 FE) and a coyote F150 in the driveway, but had GM powered boats for a decade. I'm pretty stoked to have a 6.2L on the way!

Pound
04-20-2018, 11:18 AM
Specific to OP....
If Malibu is using Raptors, and Axis is not... and Axis is the "value line" of the same company, doesn't that mean the Raptor is the preferred choice absent the economics of it? At least it seems that way from Malibu Inc's perspective.

Further, it's awesome to see Skier's Choice use Raptors in ALL their boats. That tells me that even for their value line (Moomba), they don't sacrifice on the "bones" i.e. power train, of their boats. They can still offer a "value" boat by saving costs elsewhere.

z28ke
04-20-2018, 12:19 PM
Specific to OP....
If Malibu is using Raptors, and Axis is not... and Axis is the "value line" of the same company, doesn't that mean the Raptor is the preferred choice absent the economics of it? At least it seems that way from Malibu Inc's perspective.

I haven’t thought of it like that, though I know what my personal preferred choice is, but excellent point!

It’s working guys, I’ve already inquired with my local Moomba dealer about available mojo build slots, waiting to hear back. My fiancé has been building them on the website and texting me pics all morning lol.

On another note my 08 obv has less than 300 hours on it, is in great condition, and I’ve added 3 reversible ballast pumps all on timers, LED lights throughout, sub/amp and dual batteries. Do y’all think getting $25k for it private sale here in NC is reasonable? Or is $20k more realistic? One of my best friends is interested in it especially since he knows the history and how particular I am about my toys and their maintenance. I even think he came over to check it out the day I brought it home from the dealer.

Thanks guys

Any info on the 2019 line or when build dates start for those?

z28ke
04-20-2018, 12:24 PM
I hope you take a demo in the MAX vs the Axis, it's a lot of boat and performance out of the box.
Look at yor rocking something Wakeology! I used to ride for them before they sold out to new owners. Haven't seen anything from them lately...

Another best friend of mine rode for them as well! (his board in the boat)

trayson
04-20-2018, 12:34 PM
I haven’t thought of it like that, though I know what my personal preferred choice is, but excellent point!

It’s working guys, I’ve already inquired with my local Moomba dealer about available mojo build slots, waiting to hear back. My fiancé has been building them on the website and texting me pics all morning lol.

On another note my 08 obv has less than 300 hours on it, is in great condition, and I’ve added 3 reversible ballast pumps all on timers, LED lights throughout, sub/amp and dual batteries. Do y’all think getting $25k for it private sale here in NC is reasonable? Or is $20k more realistic? One of my best friends is interested in it especially since he knows the history and how particular I am about my toys and their maintenance. I even think he came over to check it out the day I brought it home from the dealer.

Thanks guys

Any info on the 2019 line or when build dates start for those?

I would sure as hell try to get $25+ for it. especially if you sell in the peak season. Clean, low hours, well sorted v-drive. you'll get it easy IMO.

Shoebox
04-21-2018, 12:11 AM
My fiancé has been building them on the website and texting me pics all morning lol
Damn, I wish I could get that kind of buy in from my wife. My boat is still the source of fights.

Hmm, that would be a good name for the boat...

"... And then the fight started" [emoji23]

BrettLee3232
04-21-2018, 12:52 AM
I heard through the grapevine that Skiers Choice is buying Indmar or absorbing them or something like that. I over heard a conversation the dealer was having at the boat show. Please Note I was pretty inebriated so take it with a grain of salt.

OP, buy another Moomba dummy [emoji23]


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patrick232
04-22-2018, 07:47 AM
As a Chevy / GM guy I love the raptor over the out going gm block. Our Mondo was a 2014 with the 5.7 and the 2017 SR 400 moves with the 6.2 and uses less fuel. I just say look it's a Chevy pulling a Ford, lol.

jmvotto
04-22-2018, 09:40 AM
And, for the love of all things good, getting an Axis because it has a GM motor is Cra Cra man! The Moomba boat and surf wave crushes Axis!


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The A24and T23. Have crazy surf waves. And I believe Malibu /axis is making there own engine in 19 or 20. I loved my Moomba for10 years. Obv and xlv.with reliable performance not a real issue once

Mojo pro is where I would lean. I can’t get there on the max yet , but I said that about the first mojo too. When I had the opportunity to buy one of the first off the line , xlv with v2. Is still my fav moomba

RC_Hinojosa
04-23-2018, 10:27 AM
Only knock—it’s kinda loud, but that’s the boatmakers fault. I have dynamatted and installed FAE to take care of that.


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You dynamatted the engine compartment? Any pics?

dakota4ce
04-23-2018, 10:38 AM
The A24and T23. Have crazy surf waves.

I have ridden the best a 2017 23LSV could throw, and it’s not crazy. I have NOT ridden the new A24, just the older one. So I can’t judge the newest, but the old was not good.

Anyway, these things can be argued all day. I have a Supra SE, which is incredible, and I really suspect the Max comes very close.



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dakota4ce
04-23-2018, 10:46 AM
You dynamatted the engine compartment? Any pics?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180423/5fc27530188809e87abd6f926d8a5492.jpg

VDrive cover underside in my SE. Removed and covered. Also did firewall area directly in front of motor, and underside of engine hatch cover. Have not done inside rear locker walls...yet. Figured that likely isn’t a big sound source. I am guessing the VDrive cover is most of it.



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RC_Hinojosa
04-23-2018, 10:51 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180423/5fc27530188809e87abd6f926d8a5492.jpg

VDrive cover underside in my SE. Removed and covered. Also did firewall area directly in front of motor, and underside of engine hatch cover. Have not done inside rear locker walls...yet. Figured that likely isn’t a big sound source. I am guessing the VDrive cover is most of it.



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Thanks, I hadn't thought of doing that but it's a great addition to FAE which is next on my upgrade list.

Kraimz15
04-23-2018, 03:25 PM
I was looking at the A22s as well. New to the surf line of boat, so came in with a pretty open mind. Came to the final conclusion of...Malibu really cuts corners on the Axis, so don't really consider it being a Malibu.

1 - the Tower is an accident waiting to happen if you have kids. The flip style contraption that is used to lock it in place seems like trouble. This weighed heavily for me as I do have 2 kids <10 YO.
2 - didn't like the plastic wrapped windows
3 - unless 2018 or newer, the wedge is manual...meaning it has an access door on the rear platform where you have to engage it.
4 - have yet to hear about good dealership service post sale

my $0.02...I ended up with a Craz.

MJHSupra
04-23-2018, 03:53 PM
Sucks to loose money on stocks and hear a bunch of high paid execs make excuses for it.

z28ke
04-24-2018, 06:28 PM
Today I went by the new moomba dealership in town with my fiancé to decide between the max and mojo and check out different upholstery color combos and options (I have vowed to not have bright white vinvl on a boat EVER again).

Well, I was once again blown away by how much storage and room there is on the max. The last time I looked at one was at a boat show in January or February and I had forgotten how seriously HUGE that boat is! The mojo is a major upgrade in storage space coming from the outback v, but I can not justify paying more for it. The mojo is absolutely gorgeous with lots of gel color/pattern/graphics options and the max leaves something to be desired aesthetically, but man I cannot get over the storage space.

My fiancé and I plan on having kids soon and we already have a 6yo from my previous marriage, and once I sac out a mojo I can see the boat getting tight again with all the stuff that comes with young children. She 100% agreed. The dealer has a max build open that would ship end of May, and he can still make changes for a few more days (supposedly; can anyone confirm timeframes?). Here’s what we are looking at:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180424/7da98175599f33afccdaf714d8b378d7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180424/8148d75803ae63a62aea4f5de7aa05ad.jpg

No stereo options as I’d rather do this myself to get more bang for the buck.

Another thing he mentioned is an 8% price increase for 2019, can anyone confirm that as well?

Thanks for all the replies and bringing me back onboard guys!

flynnva
04-24-2018, 07:39 PM
I to have been a Chevy guy and was looking at Supreme and Axis for that very reason. After talking with my dealer, some emails to Skiers Choice and comparing the fit and finish of the 3 it was a no brainer to try a Ford engine and get a Moomba Mojo. I love it. I've only had it out twice but power is awesome, handles like a sports car (I'm coming out of stern drives), and good on fuel. I ordered my Mojo and toured the factory when mine was being built. I'm in Virginia and it was about a month from when they started the build until I took delivery at my dealer. Build time was 2 weeks and it sat on the lot for a week before I picked it up. Can't comment on the 8% but I'm sure they do an increase every year.

That Guy
04-24-2018, 08:23 PM
Looks killer!

z28ke
04-24-2018, 10:30 PM
Thanks for info on build time! We’ve been looking at it tonight and made a color change. Black metal flake on dark graphite. Tint the windshield and bam

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180425/b96237850e23c20ffe53de0a9b6d6008.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180425/3c0c79f44742489aabb4bee97b2734b2.jpg

jmvotto
04-24-2018, 11:04 PM
Yes the black is sharp

russellsmojo
04-25-2018, 07:52 AM
Black would be my vote.


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mgswake
04-25-2018, 01:57 PM
The black one looks good. Have you demo'd the mojo and max on the water? I thought the storage in the max was huuuuge!

z28ke
04-25-2018, 03:31 PM
I have actually never been on (or surfed behind) a newer wake boat in the water. The best wave I’ve ridden is behind my little obv so I’m anxious to say the least.

Still negotiating an out the door price and he’s not moving much under the price on moomba.com boat builder (which doesn’t include freight/prep/rigging/tax/registration/etc). I got him to throw in windshield tint and working on some rev10s but we will see.

z28ke
04-25-2018, 03:52 PM
*an out the door price of just under the boat builder price which is about $5200 off the dealerships msrp

mgswake
04-25-2018, 03:56 PM
I haven't bought new, but this is a tough time to get a great deal since the summer is right around the corner. If you love the boat and you can get a price you're happy with go for it!! The dealer probably has a bit more leverage on their side, but if they are a good dealer they will make you happy and meet their needs as well, at least I would hope. Good luck!

MJHSupra
04-25-2018, 05:00 PM
Most of the leftover 2017s are gone at most dealers. You can find some deals on those.

Boat show deals are gone and dealers are getting into summer mode with everyone getting boats out of storage.

They do not want to be sitting on inventory, so make a fair offer to get your price and keep on them.

jmvotto
04-25-2018, 05:18 PM
Maybe moomba will drop a 24ft boat for 2019. I've heard some new stuff is coming

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should have done this along time ago and make it 102 inch beam.

jmvotto
04-25-2018, 05:35 PM
I have ridden the best a 2017 23LSV could throw, and it’s not crazy. I have NOT ridden the new A24, just the older one. So I can’t judge the newest, but the old was not good.

Anyway, these things can be argued all day. I have a Supra SE, which is incredible, and I really suspect the Max comes very close.



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Now that the OP has made his choice on the black max, let get to the issue

totally disagree with your thinking on the surf waves .

The T23 outscored the mojo pro and the Supra SE in wave height and push . at the Southern surf fest 2017 ( www.southernsurffest.com) for results. FWIW the t23 was a 16 vs 17s and no wedge was deployed 750 in rears . fit and finish the supra and mojo I would give the edge but the results we mojo 8 , t23 7 and supra SE 6 . 10 boats 40 regular joes surfing them all weekend . the point isn't which boat is better , cuz we could argue this all day . The OP wanted opinions the on the A24 with the GM block obviously engine does not seemed to be and issue now. Whoever had you in a 23lsv obviously didn't set it up right . I rode the Bu lsv and SE back to back all day one day and very similar . except one is 23 ft the other 24.5 guess we need to compare apples to apples then .

Don't get me wrong , moombas are great many aspects and it all what you want in a boat , but don't chime in with false info just for the cause give the man perspective.

FWIW I would be in an SC product if they gave a rats behind about the Northeast over the last 5 years.

rant over

dakota4ce
04-25-2018, 07:26 PM
Now that the OP has made his choice on the black max, let get to the issue

totally disagree with your thinking on the surf waves .

The T23 outscored the mojo pro and the Supra SE in wave height and push . at the Southern surf fest 2017 ( www.southernsurffest.com) for results. FWIW the t23 was a 16 vs 17s and no wedge was deployed 750 in rears . fit and finish the supra and mojo I would give the edge but the results we mojo 8 , t23 7 and supra SE 6 . 10 boats 40 regular joes surfing them all weekend . the point isn't which boat is better , cuz we could argue this all day . The OP wanted opinions the on the A24 with the GM block obviously engine does not seemed to be and issue now. Whoever had you in a 23lsv obviously didn't set it up right . I rode the Bu lsv and SE back to back all day one day and very similar . except one is 23 ft the other 24.5 guess we need to compare apples to apples then .

Don't get me wrong , moombas are great many aspects and it all what you want in a boat , but don't chime in with false info just for the cause give the man perspective.

FWIW I would be in an SC product if they gave a rats behind about the Northeast over the last 5 years.

rant over

Well, thanks for your rant! You and almost nobody I have ever met that has surfed a great variety of DIALED surf boats agrees with your assessment, save for maybe the 24 MXZ being significantly better than any other Malibu/Axis offering to date. Like I said, I have not surfed the new one.

As far as the 23LSV we we have being set up correctly--since there is really only one way to set up a 2017 LSV with PNP, I am pretty sure we had it set up correctly during the 50-60 hours we surfed it last summer. The owner would agree with the assessment of its wave quality, BTW. He worked very closely with the folks at Minnesota Inboards to set the boat up and operate it correctly. They are the largest Malibu dealer in the nation if I am not mistaken. Not that it matters really, because you fill the ballast, deploy the wedge, set the speed and push the throttle. Not much to adjust there. We would make the wave as steep as possible until the motor could not longer pull it. The wave is great, clean, but man alive its not even close to the SE wave we make.

As far as some surf festival producing reliable data, thats all fine and good if all the boats are set up optimally. There is no information on the Supra setup. Since the Malibu and Axis offerings are the easiest and simplest to set up, I would expect their waves to be very consistent. The Supra is trickier, no question. They Supra also needs MORE WEIGHT. A LOT MORE WEIGHT. Same with Moomba offerings. That's actually a knock on it if you ask me--but it can handle the weight. You cannot dial a Malibu to that extent because eventually the water washes over the gates and all hell breaks loose. Not to mention the motor being unable to pull it after a certain level. But man, if you think a dialed SE and a 23LSV have the same waves you are smoking some extremely good peyote. And, bring some to SDakota and I will take you surfing behind my SE and we can smoke some more!

Why in the heck would I chime in with false information? The 23LSV is very ok, the A24 of older generation was not great. Thats basically what I said. The MAX looks to be VERY promising.

If you find out how that SE was set up at the vaunted Southern Surf Fest, let me know. I cannot find in all the videos, writeups, website.

dakota4ce
04-25-2018, 07:30 PM
Now that the OP has made his choice on the black max, let get to the issue

totally disagree with your thinking on the surf waves .

The T23 outscored the mojo pro and the Supra SE in wave height and push . at the Southern surf fest 2017 ( www.southernsurffest.com) for results. FWIW the t23 was a 16 vs 17s and no wedge was deployed 750 in rears . fit and finish the supra and mojo I would give the edge but the results we mojo 8 , t23 7 and supra SE 6 . 10 boats 40 regular joes surfing them all weekend . the point isn't which boat is better , cuz we could argue this all day . The OP wanted opinions the on the A24 with the GM block obviously engine does not seemed to be and issue now. Whoever had you in a 23lsv obviously didn't set it up right . I rode the Bu lsv and SE back to back all day one day and very similar . except one is 23 ft the other 24.5 guess we need to compare apples to apples then .

Don't get me wrong , moombas are great many aspects and it all what you want in a boat , but don't chime in with false info just for the cause give the man perspective.

FWIW I would be in an SC product if they gave a rats behind about the Northeast over the last 5 years.

rant over

I would also say there is no "cause" here I am fighting for. I call a spade a spade. I have owned a Tige, an MB F24, and now a Supra SE in the past 3 years. If it makes the wave, I am interested. Very well could be an Ri, heck even a 24MXZ next year if they deliver the goods. That all I care about.

muehlcj
04-25-2018, 08:59 PM
Well, thanks for your rant! You and almost nobody I have ever met that has surfed a great variety of DIALED surf boats agrees with your assessment, save for maybe the 24 MXZ being significantly better than any other Malibu/Axis offering to date. Like I said, I have not surfed the new one.

As far as the 23LSV we we have being set up correctly--since there is really only one way to set up a 2017 LSV with PNP, I am pretty sure we had it set up correctly during the 50-60 hours we surfed it last summer. The owner would agree with the assessment of its wave quality, BTW. He worked very closely with the folks at Minnesota Inboards to set the boat up and operate it correctly. They are the largest Malibu dealer in the nation if I am not mistaken. Not that it matters really, because you fill the ballast, deploy the wedge, set the speed and push the throttle. Not much to adjust there. We would make the wave as steep as possible until the motor could not longer pull it. The wave is great, clean, but man alive its not even close to the SE wave we make.

As far as some surf festival producing reliable data, thats all fine and good if all the boats are set up optimally. There is no information on the Supra setup. Since the Malibu and Axis offerings are the easiest and simplest to set up, I would expect their waves to be very consistent. The Supra is trickier, no question. They Supra also needs MORE WEIGHT. A LOT MORE WEIGHT. Same with Moomba offerings. That's actually a knock on it if you ask me--but it can handle the weight. You cannot dial a Malibu to that extent because eventually the water washes over the gates and all hell breaks loose. Not to mention the motor being unable to pull it after a certain level. But man, if you think a dialed SE and a 23LSV have the same waves you are smoking some extremely good peyote. And, bring some to SDakota and I will take you surfing behind my SE and we can smoke some more!

Why in the heck would I chime in with false information? The 23LSV is very ok, the A24 of older generation was not great. Thats basically what I said. The MAX looks to be VERY promising.

If you find out how that SE was set up at the vaunted Southern Surf Fest, let me know. I cannot find in all the videos, writeups, website.

I rode the SE that SC ran in the PWT set up by very knowledgeable factory rep and one of their pro riders for two days back to back with a lsv set up by their pro and the local rep sad to say the lsv took the cake if you are talking just wave.

I also know a thing or two about Moombas and nothing in the Moomba line (wave only) touches a t23. However I have zero experience wiht the Max. The one I saw on land was massive!!! I’m guessing set up correctly the wave is probably killer.

mgswake
04-25-2018, 09:35 PM
I rode the SE that SC ran in the PWT set up by very knowledgeable factory rep and one of their pro riders for two days back to back with a lsv set up by their pro and the local rep sad to say the lsv took the cake if you are talking just wave.

I also know a thing or two about Moombas and nothing in the Moomba line (wave only) touches a t23. However I have zero experience wiht the Max. The one I saw on land was massive!!! I’m guessing set up correctly the wave is probably killer.

Is that stock board or Parker surfcraft?

dakota4ce
04-25-2018, 09:41 PM
I rode the SE that SC ran in the PWT set up by very knowledgeable factory rep and one of their pro riders for two days back to back with a lsv set up by their pro and the local rep sad to say the lsv took the cake if you are talking just wave.

I also know a thing or two about Moombas and nothing in the Moomba line (wave only) touches a t23. However I have zero experience wiht the Max. The one I saw on land was massive!!! I’m guessing set up correctly the wave is probably killer.

Pro Wakeboarding Tour?

Maybe this might be a useful angle to discuss:

Did that PWT SE have 1280# rear sacs and 850# in lead? No. Is that what it takes? Yes. Is the wave unreal? Yes. And, the boat LOVES it. The more weight the merrier.

I am talking dialed, fellas. SLAMMED. Not factory. I would agree with you, factory to factory the LSV likely wins. Dialed and slammed to the hills the SE wins.

Maybe that context is useful to the discussion. Since everyone gets more weight if they’re serious about surfing.

Now the MAX we are discussing? Same story. Doesn’t crush it until you slam it. I am talking SLAMMED. The Supras can take the slamming and still improve, where surfgated boats stop at the point the wash over is too much. Factory they’re great, but their ultimate ceiling is lower.

Maybe that resonates? Or I live on the moon and was out of my gourd all last summer.


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KnoxMojo
04-25-2018, 09:43 PM
Pwt uses the SA, not the SE.

dakota4ce
04-25-2018, 09:52 PM
Pwt uses the SA, not the SE.

Good call!

https://www.wakeboardingmag.com/pwt-2017-supra-boats-sa-550

Not Supra’s strongest surfer. Good not great. Slammed it gets pretty darned good.



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KnoxMojo
04-25-2018, 10:05 PM
Well, they did use the SE in 15 but it was the 16 model with Swell 2.0.. I think all the waves are fun. But let's not forget, this things throw amazing wakes for boarding! Lol

muehlcj
04-25-2018, 10:06 PM
Good call!

https://www.wakeboardingmag.com/pwt-2017-supra-boats-sa-550

Not Supra’s strongest surfer. Good not great. Slammed it gets pretty darned good.







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Better check your info..... I’d focus on ‘15. Look close at the pics it has a lot of ‘16 features. First SC PWT boat was a SE. After SA redesign they switched.

muehlcj
04-25-2018, 10:15 PM
Ha got me there.

It was the Supra Pros day one board. Sweet stick. Check them out they are back on their own (no inland surfer) and make some sweet boards.

muehlcj
04-25-2018, 10:20 PM
Pro Wakeboarding Tour?

Maybe this might be a useful angle to discuss:

Did that PWT SE have 1280# rear sacs and 850# in lead? No. Is that what it takes? Yes. Is the wave unreal? Yes. And, the boat LOVES it. The more weight the merrier.

I am talking dialed, fellas. SLAMMED. Not factory. I would agree with you, factory to factory the LSV likely wins. Dialed and slammed to the hills the SE wins.

Maybe that context is useful to the discussion. Since everyone gets more weight if they’re serious about surfing.

Now the MAX we are discussing? Same story. Doesn’t crush it until you slam it. I am talking SLAMMED. The Supras can take the slamming and still improve, where surfgated boats stop at the point the wash over is too much. Factory they’re great, but their ultimate ceiling is lower.

Maybe that resonates? Or I live on the moon and was out of my gourd all last summer.


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Hoping to ride some Supras with 6k in ballast this summer. I know a guy that knows a guy. Super stoked. Hope to have my mind blown. Trust me I want SC to be the best!

dakota4ce
04-25-2018, 10:38 PM
Better check your info..... I’d focus on ‘15. Look close at the pics it has a lot of ‘16 features. First SC PWT boat was a SE. After SA redesign they switched.

Ok I assumed the wrong year—not an info problem, a context problem. What ballast setup did this use? Factory? Then the entire other post rings true.

There is simply no way. When you go big big big, surfgate tops out and tabs keep on going. It’s just what happens.

And we aren’t even talking SL yet.


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dakota4ce
04-25-2018, 10:41 PM
Hoping to ride some Supras with 6k in ballast this summer. I know a guy that knows a guy. Super stoked. Hope to have my mind blown. Trust me I want SC to be the best!

Come to SODAK. I will take ya!


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Broke Pilot
04-26-2018, 01:25 AM
I’d put my SA with enzo’s up against any wave out there. The SL was somewhat disappointing with stock ballast, and 5 not so small guys lol. I wouldn’t even count my wife on there. We tried moving her around and the boat didn’t care.
Now I just need some lead for the nose to keep the autowake happier.

I’m with Dakota, once you sink the gates on a Malibu/axis they become ineffective. The A23 we demo’d a few years back had plug n play in it with1100’s (that couldn’t easily fill all the way up) in the rear. It was a bear to steer first off, and second the wave was junk. Water spilled over the gate and ruined it until you either drained water or didn’t use the wedge. Now somethings might have changed over the last 3-4 years, but I doubt it.
I thought I remember reading somewhere that the guys that are hardcore surfing a Malibu or axis aren’t using the gate system once they’re over a certain amount of weight in the boat... I’m gonna have to go find that now.

KnoxMojo
04-26-2018, 06:54 AM
On the Malibu and Axis, my friends that slam the back run a lot of bow weight to even the boat out and it throws a nice wave. It's the bow rise that I don't like with them. I'll keep my dialed in Mojo.

dakota4ce
04-26-2018, 08:27 AM
Now we are seeing some reports of exactly what I know to be true. I thought I was dreaming!

Stock to stock you may indeed have something with a Malibu, but slammed is a whole different animal.

We are also using a bow sac to even the boat out, and yes the bow rides very high. Without the bow sac the boat won’t pull the load if you bury the wedge (which you need to do to get any steepness). Too nose high.

Either way there is no comparison to the 5000# plus ballasted SE.

BTW, I like the Malibu boat, and so does he. It’s a good boat and and very sweet looking. And it throws a 7/10 surf wave. Good enough to have major fun!


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dakota4ce
04-26-2018, 08:39 AM
I’d put my SA with enzo’s up against any wave out there. The SL was somewhat disappointing with stock ballast, and 5 not so small guys lol. I wouldn’t even count my wife on there. We tried moving her around and the boat didn’t care.
Now I just need some lead for the nose to keep the autowake happier.

I’m with Dakota, once you sink the gates on a Malibu/axis they become ineffective. The A23 we demo’d a few years back had plug n play in it with1100’s (that couldn’t easily fill all the way up) in the rear. It was a bear to steer first off, and second the wave was junk. Water spilled over the gate and ruined it until you either drained water or didn’t use the wedge. Now somethings might have changed over the last 3-4 years, but I doubt it.
I thought I remember reading somewhere that the guys that are hardcore surfing a Malibu or axis aren’t using the gate system once they’re over a certain amount of weight in the boat... I’m gonna have to go find that now.

SL with 1000# lead and some people on board is reported to be remarkable. I am eager to taste it.

Weighted dead level it switches perfectly clean too. That part is pretty amazing to me. Cautiously optimistic....


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russellsmojo
04-26-2018, 10:40 AM
Add 1,000 pounds of lead to any boat and the wave gets better.


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dakota4ce
04-26-2018, 11:16 AM
Add 1,000 pounds of lead to any boat and the wave gets better.


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Ummm yep. If your surf system can handle it.

Not sure what your getting at. Reports I have heard that the SL becomes bananas. That’s what I was insinuating. Better than other boats with 1000#—important point being the boat handles it easily.

And truly clean level switching is really a first of its kind.


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trayson
04-26-2018, 11:52 AM
Thanks for info on build time! We’ve been looking at it tonight and made a color change. Black metal flake on dark graphite. Tint the windshield and bam

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180425/b96237850e23c20ffe53de0a9b6d6008.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180425/3c0c79f44742489aabb4bee97b2734b2.jpg

Not too interested in the brand battle pissing match. But I seriously dig the black flake. that thing is sick.

wolfeman131
04-26-2018, 12:05 PM
As far as some surf festival producing reliable data, thats all fine and good if all the boats are set up optimally. There is no information on the Supra setup. Since the Malibu and Axis offerings are the easiest and simplest to set up, I would expect their waves to be very consistent. The Supra is trickier, no question. They Supra also needs MORE WEIGHT. A LOT MORE WEIGHT. Same with Moomba offerings. That's actually a knock on it if you ask me--but it can handle the weight. You cannot dial a Malibu to that extent because eventually the water washes over the gates and all hell breaks loose. Not to mention the motor being unable to pull it after a certain level. But man, if you think a dialed SE and a 23LSV have the same waves you are smoking some extremely good peyote. And, bring some to SDakota and I will take you surfing behind my SE and we can smoke some more!

If you find out how that SE was set up at the vaunted Southern Surf Fest, let me know. I cannot find in all the videos, writeups, website.

Since you asked, I'll ride back in to the mix for this one. I am one of the co-founders/co-organizers of Southern Surfest. Each manufacturer is provided direction to set their respective boat(s) up to provide the optimal wave/results. Additionally, we work extremely hard to select participants that are not "brand ambassadors" and spend hours vetting the data to ensure that the results published provide an accurate assessment of the boats & boards. For 2017, the Malibu 24 MXZ took the top spot.

KnoxMojo
04-26-2018, 12:25 PM
Trayson, That boat would look great in the downtown Portland waterfront! And you need up update your sig to reflect the new ride. lol

trayson
04-26-2018, 12:27 PM
Trayson, That boat would look great in the downtown Portland waterfront! And you need up update your sig to reflect the new ride. lol

I wish!!! I'll need another year or two.

dakota4ce
04-26-2018, 01:35 PM
Since you asked, I'll ride back in to the mix for this one. I am one of the co-founders/co-organizers of Southern Surfest. Each manufacturer is provided direction to set their respective boat(s) up to provide the optimal wave/results. Additionally, we work extremely hard to select participants that are not "brand ambassadors" and spend hours vetting the data to ensure that the results published provide an accurate assessment of the boats & boards. For 2017, the Malibu 24 MXZ took the top spot.

Perfect. How was that Supra SE set up? That seems like important data. Well, same goes for all the boats.


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dakota4ce
04-26-2018, 01:54 PM
I understand that you provide the direction to set them up optimally. But do they? And to that end, it would be very useful to have that information. The truth is that the manufacturers often aren’t the foremost authority on how to optimize boats. The user community is. Nobody fiddles with these things like owners do.

Ever taken a demo ride that was underwhelming only to find out the operator of the demo boat did not have the boat dialed, slammed, etc? I have. Actually, almost every demo ride I have been on. In fact, I would NEVER buy an SE based on the demo I had. It was poor.

All I offer is that your participants came up with a ranking order that doesn’t jive with several folks experiences. Which is fine, as that’s your prerogative as the event organizer and what your participants discovered. The error comes in interpreting those results as scientific, totally accurate, infallible, etc as some forum participants have done. If the data going into the results machine isn’t perfect, the results will reflect that.

Your event sounds awesome, however your rankings are extremely subjective by nature. In fact, ranking them at all invites bias. I would suspect that the actual values that came out of this were bunched close together. Every summary of the boats basically says “this boat is great.” And therefore compiling data on those “rankings” invites debate. Or error. Or both.

Again, your event sounds like an awesome way to try a bunch of things out. That’s awesome—especially on the surfboard side! Good for you guys. Keep up the charge!

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muehlcj
04-26-2018, 04:38 PM
I understand that you provide the direction to set them up optimally. But do they? And to that end, it would be very useful to have that information. The truth is that the manufacturers often aren’t the foremost authority on how to optimize boats. The user community is. Nobody fiddles with these things like owners do.

Ever taken a demo ride that was underwhelming only to find out the operator of the demo boat did not have the boat dialed, slammed, etc? I have. Actually, almost every demo ride I have been on. In fact, I would NEVER buy an SE based on the demo I had. It was poor.

All I offer is that your participants came up with a ranking order that doesn’t jive with several folks experiences. Which is fine, as that’s your prerogative as the event organizer and what your participants discovered. The error comes in interpreting those results as scientific, totally accurate, infallible, etc as some forum participants have done. If the data going into the results machine isn’t perfect, the results will reflect that.

Your event sounds awesome, however your rankings are extremely subjective by nature. In fact, ranking them at all invites bias. I would suspect that the actual values that came out of this were bunched close together. Every summary of the boats basically says “this boat is great.” And therefore compiling data on those “rankings” invites debate. Or error. Or both.

Again, your event sounds like an awesome way to try a bunch of things out. That’s awesome—especially on the surfboard side! Good for you guys. Keep up the charge!

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Based on my limited experience I'd be willing to bet a brand new PS board that if you put a SE up against a 24mxz and you start adding weight to the SE to get a better wave then the mxz you might find the SE at the bottom of the lake before it happens.

Hope to be proven wrong this summer.

I'd be careful discounting the results from SSF. Most folks that are there are representative of the most knowledgeable folks within their respective brands. Might hurt some feelings. Just sayin.

dakota4ce
04-26-2018, 05:07 PM
Based on my limited experience I'd be willing to bet a brand new PS board that if you put a SE up against a 24mxz and you start adding weight to the SE to get a better wave then the mxz you might find the SE at the bottom of the lake before it happens.

Hope to be proven wrong this summer.

I'd be careful discounting the results from SSF. Most folks that are there are representative of the most knowledgeable folks within their respective brands. Might hurt some feelings. Just sayin.

I am not discounting the event. I am saying the boats aren’t necessarily dialed just because someone is told to dial them.


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dakota4ce
04-26-2018, 05:12 PM
Based on my limited experience I'd be willing to bet a brand new PS board that if you put a SE up against a 24mxz and you start adding weight to the SE to get a better wave then the mxz you might find the SE at the bottom of the lake before it happens.

Hope to be proven wrong this summer.

I'd be careful discounting the results from SSF. Most folks that are there are representative of the most knowledgeable folks within their respective brands. Might hurt some feelings. Just sayin.

Also, I have not taken any exception to the 24MXZ being possibly great. I repeat: I have not surfed one. If I surf one, and it’s better, then I won’t necessarily be surprised. Hell I would buy one.

I do know that the same is not true for a T23, or extrapolated to a 23LSV as has been claimed earlier in the thread.

Also, I am simply stating that the results of the SSF aren’t scientific, and should not be used by anyone to claim superiority of anything over another. They’re compiled preferences. You—well originally jmvotto, I guess—are the one that chose to use them like data.

That’s all my friend. It’s all good, and it’s not wrong.

And for good measure I will state it again: the 24 MXZ very well may be the golden donut. I have heard it’s great, and would love to try one.

And really all I want to know is how were these boats set up? If we are gonna credit the rankings the setups have to be noted—as someone said earlier: you add 1000# to any boat the wave gets better. This is true, and in some boats more true than others.

Not even a brand pissing match as Trayson notes, I have no brand loyalty. I have had 3 in 3 years, and probably may have 4 within 5 years.
Brands matter none to me.

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dusty2221
04-26-2018, 05:29 PM
Based on my limited experience I'd be willing to bet a brand new PS board

Just don't bet the Texas Jam board, people need to enter the raffle for that one!

jmvotto
04-26-2018, 05:43 PM
Dakota, you ate way off base as usual

The mojo pro was driven and set up by drew tinker son of pres Rick tinker and and Jon Allen Supra rep drove the SE.

Your Mb was the the bomb until you got an SE
Not sure what scientific data you looking for buy 40 skilled riders with input is good enough for me.

All the boats throwgreat waves give up the ghost all preference Just don’t dirt other boats for your cause
Ain’t happening here

You want to throw 24 to 25 ft boats in the mix you will cry.

wolfeman131
04-26-2018, 05:47 PM
I understand that you provide the direction to set them up optimally. But do they?

Why would they not? Additionally, the user community (aka SSF participants) are all avid surfers and provide input throughout the event. Extra ballast bags and lead were sitting on the dock for use should a boat need to be set up differently.



Ever taken a demo ride that was underwhelming only to find out the operator of the demo boat did not have the boat dialed, slammed, etc? I have. Actually, almost every demo ride I have been on. In fact, I would NEVER buy an SE based on the demo I had. It was poor.

SSF isn't a "demo ride" event. The manufacturers & dealers that participate know this as most have been a part of the event for several years and recognize that the information from this event is spread across the industry.



All I offer is that your participants came up with a ranking order that doesn’t jive with several folks experiences. Which is fine, as that’s your prerogative as the event organizer and what your participants discovered. The error comes in interpreting those results as scientific, totally accurate, infallible, etc as some forum participants have done. If the data going into the results machine isn’t perfect, the results will reflect that.

We have 40 riders and the compilation of the results would clearly provide a more sound conclusion than "several folks experiences" and there is no "error" when the opinions of participants is collected.

dakota4ce
04-26-2018, 06:47 PM
Why would they not? Additionally, the user community (aka SSF participants) are all avid surfers and provide input throughout the event. Extra ballast bags and lead were sitting on the dock for use should a boat need to be set up differently.



SSF isn't a "demo ride" event. The manufacturers & dealers that participate know this as most have been a part of the event for several years and recognize that the information from this event is spread across the industry.



We have 40 riders and the compilation of the results would clearly provide a more sound conclusion than "several folks experiences" and there is no "error" when the opinions of participants is collected.

Okay, uncle guys.

“Way off base, as usual.” Thanks for that! [emoji1360] how dare I challenge. I would say the questions are probably fair.

I will have to take another look at the 23LSV this summer. It must have a lot more in the tank than we were able to get.

How bunched was the data out of curiosity? I am a scientist, just want to know.

Also want to know how that SE was set up. If possible.

How come no event this year?



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dakota4ce
04-26-2018, 07:03 PM
Dakota, you ate way off base as usual

The mojo pro was driven and set up by drew tinker son of pres Rick tinker and and Jon Allen Supra rep drove the SE.

Your Mb was the the bomb until you got an SE
Not sure what scientific data you looking for buy 40 skilled riders with input is good enough for me.

All the boats throwgreat waves give up the ghost all preference Just don’t dirt other boats for your cause
Ain’t happening here

You want to throw 24 to 25 ft boats in the mix you will cry.

Mr jmvotto, did you participate in this event last year?

My MB was/is a good boat, but I never laid claim that it was the bomb. Hence the reason I sold it......

I am not dirting other boats, and have no cause. Re-read the posts my friend. Seriously. I am not sure what dirting is, by the way. I also don't know what a ghost all preference is.

What other 24-25 foot boats are ones that will make me cry? Not sure I would cry, but if you get me into a boat that kicks the current status quo's tail, I will probably buy it. As I also mentioned earlier.

Really just wanted to know how the boats were set up. That's all man! That makes the results much more meaningful I think.

dakota4ce
04-26-2018, 07:24 PM
Why would they not? Additionally, the user community (aka SSF participants) are all avid surfers and provide input throughout the event. Extra ballast bags and lead were sitting on the dock for use should a boat need to be set up differently.


Set up correctly on the S238 or not?

Listen man, I am not poking any holes in your event. The boats in the lineup are all whales. I am sure they all have similar and awesome waves. I have only been behind 5 of the 10, so I cannot comment on the other 5. Nor have I, actually.

Just wanted to know the details of the setups, as I have a lot of experience in the SE setup. Mainly what I wonder.

I apologize if I offended you, that certainly is not my intention. I am really the least of any fanboy of any brand. If a boat kicks what I have's butt, I typically buy it (if a deal comes together).

I need to run an A24 to taste this machine.

26927

DaveM
04-30-2018, 06:39 PM
You are hung up on the wrong issue, Ford motors are great in this application. The real issue is one of quality build with Axis boats. I too looked at both an A22 and T22 Axis. After careful examination and comparison, the Moomba boats were far better built than Axis. The Axis boats have cheap looking dashes, poor fit and finish, and questionable fiberglass finish. I just purchased a 2018 Craz. My Malibu friends are amazed at the quality and great looks.