The boat Show: Upgrade LSV for MAX?

[flienlow]

The Boat show... A place where tremendously foolish life decisions make perfect sense. Anyway, my mind is spinning on a few things.
• The Supra Rep who was at the show cannot come out and say you don’t have a very good Moomba for surfing, so buy another one. BUT… that is the feeling I got from talking to him.
• My 2015 LSV surf wake is OK at best. (this is my opinion)
The options as I see it are this:
1.Heel my boat over with even more ballast - but that is not a safe way to operate is it? Not to mention my wife who can barely drive hates driving the boat like that.
2. Look in to some sort of Surf tab retro fit if possible?
• Do they work?
• Would that even help?
• Buy a $4,000 “Surf System” or Bennett BOLT Electric Trim Tab Set which seem to be the same damn thing at much less than 1/3 the cost?
3. Accept defeat and buy something like the Max or an Axis?
I have a great rate on my current loan, and I DON’T want to go into 75k worth of debt on a new boat.
I know others here have success with the same hull that I do. It is difficult for me to tell if they are just more easily please than me, or if I am being stupid with my boat set up.
I don’t want to throw good money after bad if the boat is not going to work. My fear is that if I start throwing more money into props, bags, stereo, and bolt on surf system Its going to be 7-10k and the might as well clause starts coming into play.
4. Would a Max be a good choice?

[DFTR Josh]

Have you tried any suck gates out there yet to help ride more level?

[korey]

+1 on a simple wake sharper. I was joking with my dealer at the Louisville boat show this weekend. He doesn't want to carry the $400 Mission Delta because that $400 might steal a boat sale!

[Stazi]

My buddies LSV with 1100’s, center and bow sacks plus a stick on gate I made him makes an amazing wave. As Josh said, try the stick on gate if you haven’t already, it’s a serious game changer. The $4000 add on surf tab upgrade isn’t as good. My other gaudy put that on his XLV and we get a better wave on that one too, with the stick on gate.


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[flienlow]

My buddies LSV with 1100Â’s, center and bow sacks plus a stick on gate I made him makes an amazing wave. As Josh said, try the stick on gate if you havenÂ’t already, itÂ’s a serious game changer. The $4000 add on surf tab upgrade isnÂ’t as good. My other gaudy put that on his XLV and we get a better wave on that one too, with the stick on gate.


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-I have the delta Mission
-The "Surf tabs"
-I have completely over grossed the boat with people + full factor ballast.
-Played with moving butts around and wake plate settings

Now a full boat with people is ok, but we still need to be a 11.5mph to surf. Nothing in what I have read and been sent by Moomba makes sense. Unless what they consider to be optimal surfing is mediocre to me? going at 10.5 just makes white wash.

The Delta makes the boat surfable for sure. Without it good luck! but when we only have a crew of 3 the pocket is so close to the swim platform I almost hit it, and all I seem to be able to do is let go of the rope and hangout right behind the boat.
The problem with the Delta is the Hull. It wont fit in the optimal place for my boat.
The issue is not that I dont have a nice boat. We love it. I am just getting a bit tired of f'n around, or having a go out on the neighbors boat because his throws the best wake I have been on. Just wondering if while it would suck for me financially, I would get to enjoy the outing more if we upgrade to a MAX. Like I said, I don't want to.

If this is going to be a situation where I need upgrade ballast, and 12 people in the boat, this is not going to work for us either. I will say, that if we buy a new boat, and it isnt spot on right out of the gate, I fear that the wife would go full Super Nova and the Solar System as we know it would end.

Interesting to hear this however: "The $4000 add on surf tab upgrade isnÂ’t as good."

[stevemarich]

Just buy a Max , you know you want to , get it with the g6 pump system , autowake , GPS cruise, spend an extra 1000ish on additional ballast and you will never look back, it will surf like a champ , you will have tons of storage , it won't feel like your sinking boat to get a good wave, there would be no more f'ing around , just launch and go. Will be a win win. :cool:

[Stazi]

Buy a MAX then. Yes, the gosurfassist kit my buddy added was not all that it’s cracked up to be. Unfortunately


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[parrothd]

If you can't get a decent wave out of an LSV upgrading isn't going to help much. You'd be better off learning how to setup the LSV.

[KG's Supra24]

If you can't get a decent wave out of an LSV upgrading isn't going to help much. You'd be better off learning how to setup the LSV.

This.

Where are you located flienlow?

[patrick232]

The thing to remember is the LSV hull was developed well before the surfing crazy started. It was the same hull from 2006 to 2012 then went to a deeper hull but similar below the water line I believe. Based off that SC has had over a decade to develop a great surf boat. The easy of the surf systems is what is selling new boats as many want to relax and hit buttons not mess with bags and shifting people. What every you do don't let the wife sit in or drive a Supra. The rider and driver profiles make it a breeze to drive and make everyone a great driver.

[dakota4ce]

-I have the delta Mission
-The "Surf tabs"
-I have completely over grossed the boat with people + full factor ballast.
-Played with moving butts around and wake plate settings

Now a full boat with people is ok, but we still need to be a 11.5mph to surf. Nothing in what I have read and been sent by Moomba makes sense. Unless what they consider to be optimal surfing is mediocre to me? going at 10.5 just makes white wash.

The Delta makes the boat surfable for sure. Without it good luck! but when we only have a crew of 3 the pocket is so close to the swim platform I almost hit it, and all I seem to be able to do is let go of the rope and hangout right behind the boat.
The problem with the Delta is the Hull. It wont fit in the optimal place for my boat.
The issue is not that I dont have a nice boat. We love it. I am just getting a bit tired of f'n around, or having a go out on the neighbors boat because his throws the best wake I have been on. Just wondering if while it would suck for me financially, I would get to enjoy the outing more if we upgrade to a MAX. Like I said, I don't want to.

If this is going to be a situation where I need upgrade ballast, and 12 people in the boat, this is not going to work for us either. I will say, that if we buy a new boat, and it isnt spot on right out of the gate, I fear that the wife would go full Super Nova and the Solar System as we know it would end.

Interesting to hear this however: "The $4000 add on surf tab upgrade isnÂ’t as good."

Humbly disagree. If ($4000 Tabs)GSA isn’t the best something is wrong with the setup. That system is legit. You have to have the weight and speed though.


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[stevemarich]

He was my craz ,only one adult driving and only upgrade was the 1140 rears no other bags people lead or anything , before even messing with autowake settings it only got better

https://youtu.be/JSx2fjrH_e4

[flienlow]

This.

Where are you located flienlow?

Seattle Area

[flienlow]

So here is my neighbor's 2006 SV230. To be fair it is loaded to the hilt with Ballast and well listed to port side. Wake Videos are difficult to tell, but this is a very sizable surf wave, and my boat will come no where near close to this.
The video is of my daughter just learning and not meant to show case the wake. The water was a little choppy and normally the wave is a bit bigger and smoother.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oDvHK4E3kU

[trayson]

-I have the delta Mission
-The "Surf tabs"
-I have completely over grossed the boat with people + full factor ballast.
-Played with moving butts around and wake plate settings

Now a full boat with people is ok, but we still need to be a 11.5mph to surf. Nothing in what I have read and been sent by Moomba makes sense. Unless what they consider to be optimal surfing is mediocre to me? going at 10.5 just makes white wash.

The Delta makes the boat surfable for sure. Without it good luck! but when we only have a crew of 3 the pocket is so close to the swim platform I almost hit it, and all I seem to be able to do is let go of the rope and hangout right behind the boat.
The problem with the Delta is the Hull. It wont fit in the optimal place for my boat.
The issue is not that I dont have a nice boat. We love it. I am just getting a bit tired of f'n around, or having a go out on the neighbors boat because his throws the best wake I have been on. Just wondering if while it would suck for me financially, I would get to enjoy the outing more if we upgrade to a MAX. Like I said, I don't want to.

If this is going to be a situation where I need upgrade ballast, and 12 people in the boat, this is not going to work for us either. I will say, that if we buy a new boat, and it isnt spot on right out of the gate, I fear that the wife would go full Super Nova and the Solar System as we know it would end.

Interesting to hear this however: "The $4000 add on surf tab upgrade isnÂ’t as good."

How much ballast are you running and where do you have it placed?

You're more than welcome to come out with me anytime on my 2008 XLV and see what my surf wave is like. we've got it fairly nice IMO. It's still not going to be the Max wave because the max comes stock with 3k of ballast on a deeper boat that's already 1k more weight than my XLV.

As soon as the weather gets nicer, I ride all the time on the Columbia River in Portland. So if you're ever a couple hours South you have an open invite.

I'd think that maxing out the size of the ballast bags on your LSV and filling them all except do the non-surfside rear at 50% with a suck gate of some kind should get your reasonable results... My wife is 5'2 and drives our boat surfing like a champ.

[stevemarich]

Awesome dude , I love watching the kiddos surf , she was doing awesome ,how cool . this is my oldest https://youtu.be/Yj_zLRYaQZo

[KG's Supra24]

Seattle Area

Dang, that's outside of my help zone.

The new boats come with autowake bc it's not just about weight, but where it's placed, and ultimately, how it affects the angle of the boat in the water. You need to find the sweet spot in your LSV, with a suckgate.

Help from someone with experience "seeing" it as tweaks are made will make quick work of it. Trayson may be qualified but I'm not sure I'd take my chances.

[twkoehn]

Here is my 07 LSV with 2 adults and 2 middle aged children in the boat. 1100s in each rear locker (starboard side full and port side about 70%), ski locker full, 750 lb IBS, wake plate about half way up, suck gate and running 10.7 MPH. We are new to surfing and would never say we have it completely dialed in but we can surf very comfortably all the way back to the full length of the rope. We are not good enough to have tried a lot of tricks but we do work the board forward and back in the wave and have had a blast doing it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180130/4158d47ec46eeb34665927452de92b0c.jpg


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[flienlow]

How much ballast are you running and where do you have it placed?

You're more than welcome to come out with me anytime on my 2008 XLV and see what my surf wave is like. we've got it fairly nice IMO. It's still not going to be the Max wave because the max comes stock with 3k of ballast on a deeper boat that's already 1k more weight than my XLV.

As soon as the weather gets nicer, I ride all the time on the Columbia River in Portland. So if you're ever a couple hours South you have an open invite.

I'd think that maxing out the size of the ballast bags on your LSV and filling them all except do the non-surfside rear at 50% with a suck gate of some kind should get your reasonable results... My wife is 5'2 and drives our boat surfing like a champ.

I have the stock ballast which I believe is 1800lbs. Your XLV is a great boat, my buddy had one. Its also 23' with a deeper hull which helps I think. thank you for the offer!!

[flienlow]

Here is my 07 LSV with 2 adults and 2 middle aged children in the boat. 1100s in each rear locker (starboard side full and port side about 70%), ski locker full, 750 lb IBS, wake plate about half way up, suck gate and running 10.7 MPH. We are new to surfing and would never say we have it completely dialed in but we can surf very comfortably all the way back to the full length of the rope. We are not good enough to have tried a lot of tricks but we do work the board forward and back in the wave and have had a blast doing it.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180130/4158d47ec46eeb34665927452de92b0c.jpg


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I keep hearing about the 1100s but I cannot find them. The wake makers upgrade for my boat is only 900lbs?

ON THAT NOTE: A few minutes ago the wife and I discussed a few things on life. We more than likely will not be buying a new boat unless the deal is so stupid I cannot pass it up. I think I will buy a 1671 prop, 1100 ballast if I can find them. A ski locker bag, and give that a go. We are currently spending gruesome amounts of money on other things and will revisit this in the summer time or next season.
Its good to hear those 4k trim tabs are not what they are cracked up to be before dumping money on them.

[twkoehn]

[QUOTE=flienlow;320806]I keep hearing about the 1100s but I cannot find them. The wake makers upgrade for my boat is only 900lbs?

The Wakemakers "bagbuster" option for my boat was listed as 910 lb bags as well but I kept hearing about people putting 1100 lb bags into my boat. I figured I may not be able to max out the 1100s but they would fill as much as the locker would allow and maybe be more than 910 lbs. No matter which way you go, I would definitely reinforce the engine divider panels. I have read a lot of posts where people did not and had the panels bow in towards the engine after some time.

Here is the link to the 1100 lb bag I put in my lockers.
https://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-jumbo-surf-sac.html

[Stazi]

Run the wakeplate ALL the way up, lowering it at all just counteracts your ballast. If you lower it to clean up the wave, then you are going to slow, so increase your speed slightly instead of using the wakeplate.

This is me behind my buddies LSV
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180130/8b2f33e282c1d01d6486db9e7bb75d1f.jpg

Anyone that says they can’t get their LSV to make a big enough wave, doesn’t know what they’re doing. I’m 6’2” 210# and can ride that far back. Shows you how much push we can generate. This is with ALL bags (including ski locker and bow bag) 100% full, PLUS a 400 on the surf side seat and a 400 across the back seat.

The 1100’s will fit The LSV rear lockers no problem and YES, you need to buy 2 sets of reinforcement for both (1 for each side) the dividers.

https://www.wakemakers.com/engine-divider-panel-saver.html

Here’s the new Ronix 1100’s. They’re $40 cheaper than the Fly Highs. Call wakemakers before you Order them to find out if they use the regular flow rite connectors that connect to your fill and drain lines.

https://www.wakemakers.com/eight-3-pnp-1100-trapezoid-ballast-bag.html#specs

Otherwise you can get the Fly Highs which most of us have

https://www.wakemakers.com/fly-high-jumbo-surf-sac.html




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[dakota4ce]

Its good to hear those 4k trim tabs are not what they are cracked up to be before dumping money on them.

Go Surf Assist Tabs are really taking a beating here, and for no good reason. Perhaps someone had a bad experience with them? Perhaps someone is not set up right?

The tech is very legitimate, they are far more than “4K trim tabs,” and the wave they make is among the best. I owned a system on my MB F24 Tomcat, and I promise, they’re solid. They’re better than a suck gate or slappers on the same boat. I know because I tested them.

MB installs them factory. The 2018 MB B52 23 wave is a top 3% wave. Seriously.

I just want to make sure unfair judgement isn’t passed on a fine product. NO, I do not have anything to do with them other than being a customer. Just hear this: I have a magnificent 2016 SE with Swell 2.0 and huge ballast. I am thinking hard about switching the Swell tabs to GSA tabs. It extends the pocket significantly.

ANYWAY.....In your case, a suckgate and adequate ballast is going to take you a long ways. Go with it. It’s very cost effective and will work great! I know the Nauticurl suckgate is beloved in the surfing world. It puts the panel further back than the others, which is a good thing. Good luck!

Also don’t forget about having a GOOD, REAL surfboard. The performance is leaps above cheap boards. That could make a huge difference too!


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[jmvotto]

try a hull extension ghetto gate first or a suck gate. the newer boats are wider and displace more . but my 12 xlv with a ghetto gate got great reviews from a Malibu team rider and well as many custom surfboard shapers. I looked into the GSA and was close to pulling the trigger directly awesome guys to work with directly.

But I ultimately had to weigh the cost benefit.

[dakota4ce]

^^this. Perfect. It’s not because GSA isn’t good. It is expensive though!


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[BrettLee3232]

Buy a max!! Eff it, you only live once. What’s an extra 1-200 a month payment?!eat dinner at home 2-3 nights more a month. Get a 7 year warranty & FTW [emoji1591]


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[DFTR Josh]

^^ Thread summed up in one post, LOL! ^^

[trayson]

I have the stock ballast which I believe is 1800lbs. Your XLV is a great boat, my buddy had one. Its also 23' with a deeper hull which helps I think. thank you for the offer!!

There's your problem. No question. there's no replacement for displacement. IMHO, 3,000 pounds is the magic number where boats like yours and mine start to come alive.

Surf tabs are great. But spending under $40 on a DIY suck gate vs $4000... that's where most of us can't get the ROI.

I made a DIY manual version of an NSS surf tab on my supra. But that concept wouldn't work on my XLV hull. and then when the suck gate craze started, I tried it out and have been happy with the results.

***But I'd still LOVE to have a Max if my budget would facilitate it.

[corvette8189]

Go Surf Assist Tabs are really taking a beating here, and for no good reason. Perhaps someone had a bad experience with them? Perhaps someone is not set up right?

The tech is very legitimate, they are far more than “4K trim tabs,” and the wave they make is among the best. I owned a system on my MB F24 Tomcat, and I promise, they’re solid. They’re better than a suck gate or slappers on the same boat. I know because I tested them.

MB installs them factory. The 2018 MB B52 23 wave is a top 3% wave. Seriously.

I just want to make sure unfair judgement isn’t passed on a fine product. NO, I do not have anything to do with them other than being a customer. Just hear this: I have a magnificent 2016 SE with Swell 2.0 and huge ballast. I am thinking hard about switching the Swell tabs to GSA tabs. It extends the pocket significantly.

ANYWAY.....In your case, a suckgate and adequate ballast is going to take you a long ways. Go with it. It’s very cost effective and will work great! I know the Nauticurl suckgate is beloved in the surfing world. It puts the panel further back than the others, which is a good thing. Good luck!

Also don’t forget about having a GOOD, REAL surfboard. The performance is leaps above cheap boards. That could make a huge difference too!


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I agree.

Im local to GSA and have surfed behind his boat and the wave is ridiculous. So much push and the wave was huge of course that was with 4500lb of ballast I believe.