Help Me Find My Next Boat

[sivs1]

First off, we love our Supra. I'm on a new boat timing every two years or so it seems like.

What we need, creature comforts of a Supra, a hull design that surfs well AND wakeboards well.

Would love a 2016 or newer SA, just not in the budget. Does not have to be a SC boat, but of course I have owned a Moomba and a Supra so am familiar with SC and how great their boats are.

Max price is $65k.

GO!!!!

[smorris7]

I would suggest keeping what you currently have and maybe adding a surf system to it? To maintain your current Supra creature comforts and get into a newer boat that does all things well your going to need to increase that budget by 15 to 20K.


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[sivs1]

Current boat does have after market surf system installed.

[smorris7]

Current boat does have after market surf system installed.

Just curious as to why your making the change. The old style SA doesn’t surf well enough? I would suggest finding a used 16 SA for just a little more than you have budgeted. You will not find a boat that surfs and wakeboards as well as the SA for the price. G23 may do it slightly better but for a lot more money. You may be able to find an SA in the low 80’s maybe. Otherwise your looking at a used Mojo or Axis T 22 or 23. You will be disappointed with the interior after coming from your SA.


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[sivs1]

I'm in no hurry, the 2013-2015 SA is a great boat but it is not a surf boat. I did purchase the Wakemakers 1595lbs bag for an MB but my season ended before I could try it. If I can't find what I/wife want we will not move. We looked at a 2016 Z3, did not demo, the wife did not like the interior and felt our Supra was a lot better.

[jmvotto]

Just curious as to why your making the change. The old style SA doesn’t surf well enough? I would suggest finding a used 16 SA for just a little more than you have budgeted. You will not find a boat that surfs and wakeboards as well as the SA for the price. G23 may do it slightly better but for a lot more money. You may be able to find an SA in the low 80’s maybe. Otherwise your looking at a used Mojo or Axis T 22 or 23. You will be disappointed with the interior after coming from your SA.


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I would agree with all the above add in the MC NXT 22 Tige Z3 or the Malibu vlx 22 to keep the same interior comforts

If you don’t mind some hrs on a late model SA. , check out Atlanta marines inventory Great deals may be the only way to get u in at that price

[russellsmojo]

I think you wait on a 2016 sa deal or Jump up to $97k and you can have a blue and silver 2016 SE. [emoji3]


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[dakota4ce]

I think you wait on a 2016 sa deal or Jump up to $97k and you can have a blue and silver 2016 SE. [emoji3]


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Hmmm does someone want an SL?


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[smorris7]

I would agree with all the above add in the MC NXT 22 Tige Z3 or the Malibu vlx 22 to keep the same interior comforts

If you don’t mind some hrs on a late model SA. , check out Atlanta marines inventory Great deals may be the only way to get u in at that price

I can’t agree with you on the NXT. I have a buddy with one and I’m not impressed with anything it does. Trailer is terrible, interior is plain and it does not surf well...Malibu VLX and Z3 are money.


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[russellsmojo]

Hmmm does someone want an SL?


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Probably naked blacked out max with 6k ballast and a killer stereo.


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[dakota4ce]

Man. I don’t know if i could go there from the SE! Maybe?

I would miss the 2’.


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[That Guy]

It’s not a Supra but my Craz is on onlyinboards for $63k.

[dusty2221]

I've got an SA posted in the classifieds. Let's make a deal.

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[jmvotto]

I can’t agree with you on the NXT. I have a buddy with one and I’m not impressed with anything it does. Trailer is terrible, interior is plain and it does not surf well...Malibu VLX and Z3 are money.


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My bad your right I was thinking x25 not nxt , but x25 does not sure well

[CadeLeBlanc]

What do you want for your SA?

[KG's Supra24]

Echo for both smorris comments.

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[SurferCole]

Tige Z3 with taps 3!


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[SurferCole]

Tige Z3 with Taps 3



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[sandm]

op states he wants a boat that both surfs and wakeboards. I think I'd look elsewhere than the z3. world class surf boat but tiges are not known for their wakeboard wakes. not to mention at his original request of 65k, that's going to put him in a 12-14 tige and getting taps3 and even a convex vx boat will be a hunt.

if you want a 'bu, I have a cousin in boise selling a vlx or lsv, not sure which one for a good price but iirc it's in the 80's. it's under 100hrs and knowing how he keeps his gear, it'll be showroom new. he has commented that it has a superb wakeboard wake but the surf wave is not as good as some other boats however does go side to side instantly and has satisfied their needs to surf- none of them are pro level.

[dakota4ce]

I don’t know what the wakeboard wave is like, but I know a supreme 226 surfs like a MF and is really a good boat for the money!

Calling a z3 world class for surfing is a S-T-R-E-T-C-H if you ask me. It’s very solid but not quite that amazing [emoji6]. And as stated, that budget doesn’t get you the Z3 of your dreams.

LSV surfs decent, wakeboard wave is apparently to die for and the boats are just solid. I am not sure why, but they’re very likable. Not cheap though. Pre-surfgate LSVs with Wavecontrol/GSA added to them surf like BEASTS and maybe could be angled nicely into the budget.


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[dakota4ce]

The Craz or a Mojo suggestion is a pretty good idea......


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[sivs1]

I found a 2016 Z3 for $68k, but the wife did not like the interior. She felt our Supra was nicer all around. From what people are saying I have a few options. SE to me is too much boat, SA I would have to wait at least another year to get into my price, Mojo and Craz are options, just not sure I want to give up the features on the Supra. I have a buddy who was able to demo the new 2018 Malibu LSV and he could not stop talking about it's surf wave, he tried to ski it and hated it, not sure on wake board wave, but that's a brand new 2018 at $120k. Is Malibu the way to go if I can find one? Supreme was mentioned, what about Centurion? MB? We spent some time in the NXT22 at last years boat show, everything about it seemed cheap, at $90k nicely equipped, I would take a Mojo Pro before the NXT. X23, have you seen those prices?

[russellsmojo]

Surf and family boat under $65k. http://boattrader.com/listing/1986-carver-42-aft-cabin-motoryacht-102755823

Add nauti curl.


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[sivs1]

Surf and family boat under $65k. http://boattrader.com/listing/1986-carver-42-aft-cabin-motoryacht-102755823

Add nauti curl.


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Awesome, just needs a trailer and I can keep it at Lake Powell. I bet it surfs like no other, and could even tie a tow rope to the pilot house for wake boarding!

[sandm]

a '16 z3 at 68k must have had a ton of hours on it. cous said the 'bu surf wave was not the best they had been on but it was good enough for them. he's a slalom skier at heart and never said it was a bad wake to ski on but with any of the newer surf barges you are going to trade slalom for a better wake/surf wake.

have been in a few newer centurions and they felt very cheap for the price. imo. supreme makes a good surf boat, not sure on the wakeboard aspect. I found the helm to be laid out odd in the supremes giving the boat too much bow area. that was always wasted real estate to me. mb would be on par with moomba on the finish/features front so if your wife thinks the tige is a step backwards from the supra, betting she will feel the same way on the supreme/moomba/mb. they are all a step down in features and finishes from supra/tige/'bu/nautique.

when I sold the supra for my last boat, I think I got a good deal on it but it was more than I wanted to spend on a boat. the deciding factor was the added payment was more than worth having to "live" with a boat that was not doing what I wanted well for another season and it was a good decision to up the budget and spend the money. I didn't ever look back. might be worth the same conversation to get into the newer SA it sounds like you want. buying a boat based on a price that could be one you don't end up liking over the long haul will cost more in the long haul.

[trayson]

I think it's interesting that you've gotten spoiled with your step up from your Moomba LSV. Yeah your supra is nice on the inside, but I know for me, what it's like BEHIND the boat is way more important than what it's like inside the boat. I suppose that's different for others, but you're limiting yourself by saying you need as nice of an interior as Supra... because really you're looking at Supra, Malibu, Mastercraft, and Nautique for it to truly measure up. Everything else is going to be billed as 2nd tier.

I don't blame you for wanting to jump up to top tier pricing though! that's nuts for most of us.

How much do you guys really wakeboard? I can understand wanting that badass world class surf wave, because most anyone can enjoy the benefits of that surfing. But are you guys wakingboarding at the level where that world class wake is critical? I know that my XLV throws a great wakeboard wake, but other boats totally beat it like Axis, Malibu, Supra, etc. But I'm not throwing inverts and my XLV wake is certainly good enough for me. Something to think about.

[jmvotto]

I think it's interesting that you've gotten spoiled with your step up from your Moomba LSV. Yeah your supra is nice on the inside, but I know for me, what it's like BEHIND the boat is way more important than what it's like inside the boat. I suppose that's different for others, but you're limiting yourself by saying you need as nice of an interior as Supra... because really you're looking at Supra, Malibu, Mastercraft, and Nautique for it to truly measure up. Everything else is going to be billed as 2nd tier.

I don't blame you for wanting to jump up to top tier pricing though! that's nuts for most of us.

How much do you guys really wakeboard? I can understand wanting that badass world class surf wave, because most anyone can enjoy the benefits of that surfing. But are you guys wakingboarding at the level where that world class wake is critical? I know that my XLV throws a great wakeboard wake, but other boats totally beat it like Axis, Malibu, Supra, etc. But I'm not throwing inverts and my XLV wake is certainly good enough for me. Something to think about.

He said the wife was not keen on the interior "nuff said"

[sivs1]

He said the wife was not keen on the interior "nuff said"

HAPPY WIFE ......






HAPPY LIFE!!!


:cool:

[sandm]

agreed siv..... words to live by :)

[DFTR Josh]

Tracy it's going to be basic from what you guys are used to but I think you might need a demo on the MAX when mine comes in spring 2018.

[sivs1]

Tracy it's going to be basic from what you guys are used to but I think you might need a demo on the MAX when mine comes in spring 2018.

I'm willing to demo anything that seems like a contender. I have had good luck and zero issues with both my SC boats so would consider another without hesitation.

[dakota4ce]

Max is going to surf like a beast and have a less fancy overall interior. Have to see if the wife can tolerate.


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[trayson]

I'm willing to demo anything that seems like a contender. I have had good luck and zero issues with both my SC boats so would consider another without hesitation.

I have a great idea Tracy, I think you need to order up a Max that's loaded in Metalflake Brittney Blue with Black. Then I'll buy it from you in 2 years! #newevery2

https://i.imgur.com/vOZqZyA.jpg

[sivs1]

I have a great idea Tracy, I think you need to order up a Max that's loaded in Metalflake Brittney Blue with Black. Then I'll buy it from you in 2 years! #newevery2

I see how this thread is now progressing.... I take the initial hit and you benefit when the time comes. What IF I did this and ended up loving it? #newevery2 maybe, maybe not!

[trayson]

I see how this thread is now progressing.... I take the initial hit and you benefit when the time comes. What IF I did this and ended up loving it? #newevery2 maybe, maybe not!

But you already know that MP will give you a legit trade-in on the Supra!

Always lookin' out for ya! LOLOLOL

[sivs1]

Quick Max Design using Blue to make Trayson Happy! I'm not a fan of Black, so went Graphite.
26512
26513

[trayson]

Quick Max Design using Blue to make Trayson Happy! I'm not a fan of Black, so went Graphite.
26512
26513

I can live with graphite, hahaha! That looks sick. Order it up!

[KG's Supra24]

..... so a Tige doesn't have nice enough finish but the Max is an option? Good luck narrowing down the search.

[sivs1]

..... so a Tige doesn't have nice enough finish but the Max is an option? Good luck narrowing down the search.

Hey now, just going with the flow here. Everything is on the table at this point. I still have a fabulous boat and continue to work on means to dial it in to be perfect for us. That said, I will look at all options. One thing about the Tige, at least for 2016, not sure if they are now different, compare the windshield frame of the Tige to the Supra, that difference stood out to me as one example.

[Prospersigman]

Champagne taste on a beer budget...

[sandm]

having just sold a tige their finish/materials, although not on par with supra imo, is most definitely a step or 2 above moomba. actual build quality and fitment, since these are all hand built, you can get good and bad from any company.

if your wife didn't like the tige for the choices above, moomba will most certainly be a step backwards and you should continue to scour the interwebs for a newer sa that will fit the bill and if you spend any time in mb/supreme/sanger/nxt your wife should feel the same about them as the tige as they are all steps backwards from the supra in finish/materials chosen. now if she didn't like the tige for the actual layout or space usage, that's another story.

my vote would be keep looking for a newer sa as that will fit the wife's thumbs up and get you into a hull that will perform better. and mark the end of #newevery2 :)

[russellsmojo]

Don’t mistake quality for simple. My Supra seats hold just as much water as my Moomba seats. Moomba stereo was easier to enhance because it was simple.

A ford xlt with leather versus a Lariat would be my analogy.

Simple not necessarily lower quality describes Moomba. And I think one still has to reconcile $30k difference.

If you trade every two. Increase your budget and get a 2016 or 2017 sa.



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[sivs1]

Don’t mistake quality for simple. My Supra seats hold just as much water as my Moomba seats. Moomba stereo was easier to enhance because it was simple.

A ford xlt with leather versus a Lariat would be my analogy.

Simple not necessarily lower quality describes Moomba. And I think one still has to reconcile $30k difference.

If you trade every two. Increase your budget and get a 2016 or 2017 sa.



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this is an awesome example of how people on this Forum think. The helpful advice that will not just benefit me, but others looking for a new boat is beyond measure. the $65k price is really someone that has moved past the sub $30k 10+ year old boat and has really decided to step up their boating game, but cannot afford to jump into the $100k+ market. Yes I am looking for a new boat, yes I have set a budget I do not want to exceed, no I am not in a rush to go buy the first thing I see. Who else is in a similar situation and is reading this thread? #newevery2, is it worth it?

Under the seams, is a Moomba and Supra the same? Do they have the same quality control elements in place prior to leaving the factory? I have a buddy who is a QC Engineer for Honda, his team drives every single car prior to them being approved for release from the factory regardless of trim. Each car has to meet or exceed a pre-defined list.

If I buy a Brand New Max vs. buying a Brand New SE, should I expect the same under lying quality? Keep this thread going, keep ideas coming, Skiers Choice builds a fabulous product but they are not the only ones. Supreme vs. Moomba, Moomba wins. Supra vs. Tige, Supra wins. Is Moomba the best value brand boat available? Probably. Is Supra the best top level brand boat available? One of the TOP 3!

[DFTR Josh]

Well I found a 2016 Moomba Mojo that's close to your budget... :cool:

2016 Moomba Mojo, 120 hours (http://www.slcboats.com/default.asp?page=xPreOwnedInventoryDetail&id=3876818&p=1&s=Year&d=D&t=preowned&fr=xPreOwnedInventory)

[sivs1]

Well I found a 2016 Moomba Mojo that's close to your budget... :cool:

2016 Moomba Mojo, 120 hours (http://www.slcboats.com/default.asp?page=xPreOwnedInventoryDetail&id=3876818&p=1&s=Year&d=D&t=preowned&fr=xPreOwnedInventory)

Not bad, they also have a few 2017's that were rentals. I would be scared to buy a rental, thoughts?

[DFTR Josh]

Not bad, they also have a few 2017's that were rentals. I would be scared to buy a rental, thoughts?
I wouldn't have a problem at all buying a rental if in good shape and decent hours. When dealing with rental fleets they have been some of the best taken care of engine wise since they should stay on top of the maintenance. Service records are key when buying anything used/rentals. Had a buddy rent one of the Jordanelle ones and he said it was one of the best boats he's been on. It's worth a look if the price is right.

[MJHSupra]

I wouldn't have a problem at all buying a rental if in good shape and decent hours. When dealing with rental fleets they have been some of the best taken care of engine wise since they should stay on top of the maintenance. Service records are key when buying anything used/rentals. Had a buddy rent one of the Jordanelle ones and he said it was one of the best boats he's been on. It's worth a look if the price is right.

I agree with the motor comment. The for-sale rentals I've seen with "newer" boats were high hours. 2-3 year old boat with 500-600 hours. The price reflected those hours. It was a heavy discount.

Easy to see if a boat was banged against docks or the inside has rips or stains. More to factor in with price.

[DFTR Josh]

How about a 2014 SC350 that's in the classifieds?

2014 Supra SC350 365 Hours (https://www.onlyinboards.com/2014-Supra-SC350-for-sale-Richmond-Virginia-72419.aspx)

[sivs1]

How about a 2014 SC350 that's in the classifieds?

2014 Supra SC350 365 Hours (https://www.onlyinboards.com/2014-Supra-SC350-for-sale-Richmond-Virginia-72419.aspx)

I looked at that one, don't know enough about the SC model. School me using my 2013 SA as a comparison.

[sivs1]

So I have always like the old wooden Chris Craft boats. I wonder if anyone has ever tried to take an old classic 1955 Capri and turn it into a modern Surf ready boat?

26514

[DFTR Josh]

I looked at that one, don't know enough about the SC model. School me using my 2013 SA as a comparison.
I've never used a 2013 SA, LOL. I had a 2015 SC550 and was blown away this boat wasn't talked about more and then getting pulled out of the lineup. We listed the one I had and the wave was fantastic on both sides. Wakeboard wake I say was above average in size

[jmvotto]

Got any pics of the wake land mfg tab system for the Supra

Is it the Supra swell or the moomba flow retro fit

[sandm]

this is an awesome example of how people on this Forum think.

wont quote it all but a good post siv and feeding off russells.
I believe that at the end of the day moomba and supra, coming off the same line, are both going to have the same build quality and both brands have monday and wednesday boats. the difference is in the finish materials used and the quality of SOME of those materials. same can be said for comparing them to any other brand. the actual finish materials and quality of those materials are what make a boat cost more or less. that's where you have to reconcile the 30k difference. just like those that buy an entry ford f150 and those that buy the king ranch version for 20k more.

I can't say I can agree with the comments on moomba beating supreme and supra beating tige tho. it really depends on what each shopper is looking for and their perceived value/performance of the boat. I have surfed a craz and surfed several of the versions of supreme's 226. It would be a no brainer for me to choose the 226 as my perceptions of it blow the craz away. but yet others have demo'ed both and walked away with a craz as they believe it blows the 226 away.

at the end of the day, you demo and look at lots of product and after weighing the pros and cons and perceived value from each manufacturer, you buy what makes your wife happy :)

[sivs1]

Got any pics of the wake land mfg tab system for the Supra

Is it the Supra swell or the moomba flow retro fit
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171202/fad4bcb947e2f6d96bf97ae31423599d.jpg

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[jmvotto]

It’s the swell gen 1

Wonder if you could upgrade plates or have a shop put directional fins on the bottom like the new ones have . You really should be able to dial it in

[sivs1]

That's an option I considered but have not investigated.

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[13mobiusLSV]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but looks like there is a brand new 2016 SC400 in Arkansas. Think that's Greg Orr marina, not entirely sure on that part. I would have to think that would be able to be had for a huge discount.


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[wario]

Probably naked blacked out max with 6k ballast and a killer stereo.


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That’s exactly what I would order but the lack of gel options for the deck kills it for me. Blacked out with a white deck would look silly so I’m out unless something changes.

I like the fact that SC is actually trying to bring value to the inboard market with the Max and Helix, nowadays it seems like manufacturers are just trying to see how far they can push it price wise. I looked to replace my MB with a 23’ and was quoted 90k laughable dollars.

[trayson]

That’s exactly what I would order but the lack of gel options for the deck kills it for me. Blacked out with a white deck would look silly so I’m out unless something changes.

I like the fact that SC is actually trying to bring value to the inboard market with the Max and Helix, nowadays it seems like manufacturers are just trying to see how far they can push it price wise. I looked to replace my MB with a 23’ and was quoted 90k laughable dollars.

I can see them trying to keep things simple, and thereby affordable, but I agree with you that the two deck color choices are weaksauce. I mean, honestly, if the boat's accent color and deck color were one in the same, it would be CHEAPER to make the boat, not more expensive. And seriously, how is a different color spray on the deck something that costs more?!?!? load black into the paint gun instead of white. SMH

I think a murdered out accent/deck color with a Brittany blue metalflake main color in the sport spray pattern would be Amazeballs.

[russellsmojo]

That’s exactly what I would order but the lack of gel options for the deck kills it for me. Blacked out with a white deck would look silly so I’m out unless something changes.

I like the fact that SC is actually trying to bring value to the inboard market with the Max and Helix, nowadays it seems like manufacturers are just trying to see how far they can push it price wise. I looked to replace my MB with a 23’ and was quoted 90k laughable dollars.

It would look like a skunk!


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[sandm]

dark colors make no sense in hot summer climates. black topdeck would lead to lots of unhappy boaters. I would suspect that skiers is limiting options to keep costs down(keeping in mind each changeout of the gun adds both labor to the boat and materials to clean/prep).

[sivs1]

I agree with that one, dark colors can hurt. I have a little bit of black on my bow and it gets hot. I was playing around with the customizer and there are some good looking black and white combos. I like my green, some people say green is bad luck on a boat. Some people say red is bad luck. There are buyers for all color combos, just not sure resale on some of them.

[MJHSupra]

I agree with that one, dark colors can hurt. I have a little bit of black on my bow and it gets hot. I was playing around with the customizer and there are some good looking black and white combos. I like my green, some people say green is bad luck on a boat. Some people say red is bad luck. There are buyers for all color combos, just not sure resale on some of them.

Bad luck, I've only heard of the bad luck by taking bananas on a fishing trip. Noting about color.

[sandm]

personally I really like the green. boater4life has a very nice mondo in wi that I really liked the color on.
that being said my first supra was orange and white and my last boat had pink graphics so I tend to lean toward colors that are not "the norm".

I don't think I will ever own a boat with red on it and that seems to be a very popular and "safe" color to pick.

[sivs1]

So let me throw this out there, if I keep my SA what's the likely hood of being able to replace the Swell 1.0 plates to Swell 2.0 without making other changes? is is as simple as purchasing the 2.0 plates and bolting them in place? I have the 1,595 bag I have yet to fill and am hoping that makes a big difference is surf wave size and push and am sure if I can change plates that would make my SA a killer all around boat.

[trayson]

So let me throw this out there, if I keep my SA what's the likely hood of being able to replace the Swell 1.0 plates to Swell 2.0 without making other changes? is is as simple as purchasing the 2.0 plates and bolting them in place? I have the 1,595 bag I have yet to fill and am hoping that makes a big difference is surf wave size and push and am sure if I can change plates that would make my SA a killer all around boat.

I think it'd be worth looking into. From my understanding, the plates themselves aren't prohibitively expensive. I know that Moomba owners have went to newer plates from older ones and they bolted right up.

I would suggest you contact Wakeland, and ask them. they make the OEM systems. I've heard they aren't super responsive, so it might take some persistence to get ahold of them...

http://www.wakelandmfg.com/

[DFTR Josh]

So let me throw this out there, if I keep my SA what's the likely hood of being able to replace the Swell 1.0 plates to Swell 2.0 without making other changes? is is as simple as purchasing the 2.0 plates and bolting them in place? I have the 1,595 bag I have yet to fill and am hoping that makes a big difference is surf wave size and push and am sure if I can change plates that would make my SA a killer all around boat.
A good session with Mountain Side Wake School also will help. Them guys are really familiar with the plate and the settings. I'm not 100% but the other SA (2013) was setup by them and it throws some rollers.

[sandm]

trade it. I would bet money that no modifications will end up pleasing you knowing that there are other boats out there that will outperform that hull.
my supra had a decent wave, but the difference when I replaced it was night and day and the replacement boat was not even among the top5 surf hulls of that year.

[moosepatty]

I'm looking for my next boat as well. I've never bought one. Anyone know what type of discount off a 2018 Moomba Mojo I should expect? MSRP $85,000. I'm in Houston, TX.

[oldsmobiledriver]

%5 ish


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[Broke Pilot]

I'm looking for my next boat as well. I've never bought one. Anyone know what type of discount off a 2018 Moomba Mojo I should expect? MSRP $85,000. I'm in Houston, TX.

I'd highly suggest waiting for the boat show in January. Rinkers will make some smoking deals.
Either way, if you go with rinkers go look up Chris Martin. Great guy.

[moosepatty]

I'd highly suggest waiting for the boat show in January. Rinkers will make some smoking deals.
Either way, if you go with rinkers go look up Chris Martin. Great guy.

Think the deal at the bot show will be anything big like $10,000+ off sticker? I’ve heard the margins in the boat and RV market are way bigger than the auto industry, this result in huge discounts.

[Broke Pilot]

That's all usually your negotiating skills, but yes, their margins are bigger. Seems like the last few years the big boat show incentives have been extra years on the warranty. (7 I believe which is 2 extra, anyone correct me if I'm wrong?) Which I'm all for with all the electronics in these boats.

[dakota4ce]

I thought 20% off MSRP was a good deal and 30% was excellent but quite rare?

I have only ever bought 1 year holdover boats. Those are solid deals.


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[MJHSupra]

I second waiting until the boat show for something new - 2018.

If you are buying a 2017, that may or may not be around in a few months.

[MJHSupra]

So let me throw this out there, if I keep my SA what's the likely hood of being able to replace the Swell 1.0 plates to Swell 2.0 without making other changes? is is as simple as purchasing the 2.0 plates and bolting them in place? I have the 1,595 bag I have yet to fill and am hoping that makes a big difference is surf wave size and push and am sure if I can change plates that would make my SA a killer all around boat.

I would be curious what the guys at Wakeland say about the plates - the larger 2.0 ones. I have the smaller ones on my boat.

When I asked them about it, we got into a discussion about the effect on the boat, but in the end they steered me away.

All the new plates on the new boats are bigger than the 1st & 2nd generations, so I'm still not convinced that was the best move.

[Broke Pilot]

I'm still new to this surf system stuff, but to me it seems like smaller plates would work better... from what I've read and been told, at some point in the deployment, the plates will lift the back of the boat taking away some effectiveness. That's why you never see ppl running with the plate at 100%.
To me, that says the plates are too big. They need to have less push effect and more drag. That's why the nautique system probably works so well. The plates on those come out maybe 3" or so? And they're at a 90° angle to the water, probly more when the boat is nose high. So all they do is drag the water.
I'd be curious to see a tiny plate mounted to our system that deployed further down... but that's just my take!

[dakota4ce]

There is more to surf tabs than creating drag. They also redirect flow out from centerline and create slight list.

I can tell you that Swell 2.0 is significantly better than original Swell. And the biggest basic change was plate size.

Looking at GSA is more of the same. They’re huge.

If I personally had to guess, I would say that NSS is likely the least efficient of all of them? But don’t forget they have shaped their hull drastically to work with the mechanism of NSS.

I guess what I am saying is there are several factors at work, and increasing plate sizes are for a reason.


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[MJHSupra]

Agree . . .

[KnoxMojo]

I love my '15 Mojo with manual flow....The ease of the system and nothing to break down is the reason I plan to keep it for a long time. But the fact is that Swell2 works better than Swell1, some of that is plate design, other is the hull. Surfs up!!

[dakota4ce]

I love my '15 Mojo with manual flow....The ease of the system and nothing to break down is the reason I plan to keep it for a long time. But the fact is that Swell2 works better than Swell1, some of that is plate design, other is the hull. Surfs up!!

I don’t think the hull changed? On the SE anyway.


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[dakota4ce]

I actually don’t think any of the hulls changed.....


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[Broke Pilot]

[QUOTE=dakota4ce;319715]There is more to surf tabs than creating drag. They also redirect flow out from centerline and create slight list.

I can tell you that Swell 2.0 is significantly better than original Swell. And the biggest basic change was plate size.

Looking at GSA is more of the same. They’re huge.

If I personally had to guess, I would say that NSS is likely the least efficient of all of them? But don’t forget they have shaped their hull drastically to work with the mechanism of NSS.

I guess what I am saying is there are several factors at work, and increasing plate sizes are for a reason

I can see where you're coming from, and it's all just a magical science I guess since we don't have 3 boats and a bunch of metal working tools to just sit and play with!
(One day...lmao)
The G23 is supposed to be the baddest surf boat around I thought? That plate system they have isn't rocket science. I think Trayson built one on his old Supra...looked like it worked well.
Maybe once my shop is complete I'll build a little tiny set and try them out.
Let me add that to an open spot on my to do list... fml

[dakota4ce]

My humble opinion, but I would definitely not call the G23 the baddest surf boat around. Maybe the most expensive?


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[dakota4ce]

There is a lot more to it these last few years. The simple stuff definitely works, and the newer more complex stuff works VERY well.


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[Broke Pilot]

My humble opinion, but I would definitely not call the G23 the baddest surf boat around. Maybe the most expensive?


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Lol... not what I meant but I understand. I got behind a G21, it was nice. And it surfs off the showroom floor. I think that's their benefit, other than making a hole on your bank account.
I definitely think my SA with Enzo's is a better wave, but I'm sure it wasn't like that stock. That's all I was getting at.
I will admit, before I bought the SA, I really considered the G23, msknly cus I like LS based motors. But that price... good lord. I didn't know filling a boat full of water was ground breaking technology! Lol

[dakota4ce]

There are lots that surf off showroom floor now. The absolute best in this category is Centurion. Their plates are very large.

My point was simply that in my opinion, NSS is not the cream of the crop. Actually the neatest and most effective plate out there is GSA/MB Switch. There is some novel technology in those.


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[dakota4ce]

Amendment A:

2018 MB B52 23 might be the best stock surfer.


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[russellsmojo]

If Plates keep getting bigger we can use them as a step to get off boat when on the trailer. I think Supra will need to do something to make the platform bigger if plates keep getting bigger because I also don’t want to be whacking my legs on surf plates when floating around the platform.


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[dakota4ce]

I would imagine they’re not getting bigger from here by much.


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[Broke Pilot]

If I had to guess, I bet the next generation will see more sideways push from the plates, i.e. Malibu... that's the only progression I can imagine. Tige used to have that plate that looked like an extra swim platform underneath, but it only stayed a few years before they went to the TAPS3 plate system. So I agree, I don't know how bigger plates at this point could help, other than if they start beefing the plates up and using them to channel water in certain directions. And as I type that, doesn't the GSA system plates do something along those lines?

[trayson]

My humble opinion, but I would definitely not call the G23 the baddest surf boat around. Maybe the most expensive?


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Agreed. I regularly surf a G23. It's nice, but I've surfed way better.

[Broke Pilot]

I will admit The Centurion Ri217 we Demo'd was a crazy wave, can't imagine the 257! But the build quality was so poor. I love my SA, but I'm excited to see what the next progression of evrything is.

[KnoxMojo]

I think y'all may have misunderstood what I was trying to say...they put swell1 on the newer hulls then changed over to swell2, so the newer hulls haven't changed, but the plates did to better take advantage of the hulls. The nss system works well, but they still need extra weight to be really good. Also, I have read that dealers are denying claims for broken surf plates claiming people are using them as steps.....

[sivs1]

Interesting take this thread has turned. So in comparing these different surf systems is it the system? The hull? The amount of weight? Or more of a combination of all three?

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[dakota4ce]

Interesting take this thread has turned. So in comparing these different surf systems is it the system? The hull? The amount of weight? Or more of a combination of all three?

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For sure a combo of all three. Weight is probably the most basic of the ingredients. It takes a certain minimum no matter what system or hull you’re working with.


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[dakota4ce]

I think y'all may have misunderstood what I was trying to say...they put swell1 on the newer hulls then changed over to swell2, so the newer hulls haven't changed, but the plates did to better take advantage of the hulls. The nss system works well, but they still need extra weight to be really good. Also, I have read that dealers are denying claims for broken surf plates claiming people are using them as steps.....

I guess I don’t know for sure what you’re saying. Swell 2 works better than Swell on the same hulls, with the main change being size of the plate.

As far as claims for tabs being used as steps? Not sure at all what you’re driving at there. There was one mentioned here, but it was a broken actuator mount that ended up being covered by warranty.

Kind of sounds like manual flow apologetics if I read between the lines a little [emoji6].




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[jmvotto]

If I had to guess, I bet the next generation will see more sideways push from the plates, i.e. Malibu... that's the only progression I can imagine. Tige used to have that plate that looked like an extra swim platform underneath, but it only stayed a few years before they went to the TAPS3 plate system. So I agree, I don't know how bigger plates at this point could help, other than if they start beefing the plates up and using them to channel water in certain directions. And as I type that, doesn't the GSA system plates do something along those lines?


Doubt any mfg will go with side ways push without a liscence agreement or the fear of getting sued . There’s a reason on two companies do it right now Malibu owns the rights and Nautique got sued , lost and now liscences the technology from Malibu , Mastercraft even settled on infringe the issues and paid a one time liscence fee . Do tabs it it for everyone else since trim tabs don’t have patent protection .

That why so many ghetto gates and suck gates work really well but essentially have to be diy or aftermarket

[sivs1]

So as we are going down this path who has the best out of the box solution that combines all three aspects? A lot of brands and huge price range has already been mentioned. So let's put some criteria in place, best boat under 100k and best boat over 100k? Provide support as to why.

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[jmvotto]

Ok I’m game over 100k Pavati most expensive Ferrari on the water. Just bad ass

Axis t23 Best wave with102 beam. Maybe the max but yet to see one

[dakota4ce]

Axis T23? What in the world? Best wave out of the box under 100k that needs no additional mods is 2018 MB B52 23. It was developed and shaped specifically to work with GSA tabs. Included is all the ballast you will need. Plus their quick hard tanks are just awesome.

I have yet to see a Pavati wave that looks good. The boats are works of art, the wave not so much. Best out of the box over 100K is probably Ri237 or 257. Huge ballast and wave right from factory.

Max was already documented at polar bear as really needing more weight to shine. Same really goes for all boats except the B52 and the Centurions.


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[sandm]

agree with dakota.
I surfed a pavati- or tried to back in '12. wave pretty much sucked but that is- hands down- the best built, highest fit/finish and top rated materials I have ever seen in a wakeboat. the weld quality, wiring and upholstery makes the big 3 look like bayliner but it also surfs like one. but lets face it, who doesn't want a wakeboat with no gel cracks ever and beach at full throttle and not worry about it :)

if I was over 100k I would sure look hard at centurion first knowing that their fit/finish is not worthy of a boat of that price but the wave sure is. under 100k mb has been a contender for many years and was on my short list in '12 when shopping but dealer would not deal.

[KnoxMojo]

As far as claims for tabs being used as steps? Not sure at all what you’re driving at there. There was one mentioned here, but it was a broken actuator mount that ended up being covered by warranty.

Kind of sounds like manual flow apologetics if I read between the lines a little .



You do realize there are more forums out there than this one. I don't apologize for anything. If you can't see that that they changed Swell to better work with the newer hulls, well, not sure what to say. Trust me, if I wanted a newer boat, I'd have one.......

[dakota4ce]

You do realize there are more forums out there than this one. I don't apologize for anything. If you can't see that that they changed Swell to better work with the newer hulls, well, not sure what to say. Trust me, if I wanted a newer boat, I'd have one.......

I am seriously trying to understand what you mean but am struggling. Not trying to insult you or make you apologize for anything. [emoji6] I am on the other forums a good bit as well—Tige, MB, and WW. Only because I have owned those in the past.

As I recall we were talking strictly about plate size, and I said Swell 2 works better than Swell one, and the primary difference is plate size. Which it sure appears to be. You then asserted that you love your manual flow the newer hulls are the reason for Swell working better with age. I was comparing Swell one on the SE hull vs Swell 2 on the SE hull. A direct comparison between 2015 (my buddy’s boat) and 2016 (my boat). Of course they changed it, they made the plates bigger (which is what we were talking about)? Big plate > small plate. That’s all?

I don’t know exactly what you’re getting at, but it’s all good man! Obviously there some context here I am not picking up on.

“Apologetics” is not making you apologize—it means offering up evidence to prove something is best or true. That’s what I meant—based on your past posts about manual flow on that guys LSV. It’s a forum jab. As for not wanting a newer boat vs your manual flow boat, that’s all good too? Not sure how that relates here...but man if you love it then that’s all that matters! [emoji57]


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[KnoxMojo]

All good. I think we are just not understanding each other. Good day.

[dakota4ce]

You must be saying other forums have warranty claim on tab issues posted on them?


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[dakota4ce]

All good. I think we are just not understanding each other. Good day.

Tabs are have gotten bigger because they are working better—that was the point of the original discussion. Which seems to be the case across multiple manufacturers.


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[KnoxMojo]

No, moomba supra has warranty claims....I've seen it a couple times on the Facebook forums where people have been denied. Someone on here asked how big the plates were going to get...when you have kids or adults that haven't been around wake boats much, I could see them trying to board the boat while in the water using a trim or surf plate.

[dakota4ce]

No, moomba supra has warranty claims....I've seen it a couple times on the Facebook forums where people have been denied. Someone on here asked how big the plates were going to get...when you have kids or adults that haven't been around wake boats much, I could see them trying to board the boat while in the water using a trim or surf plate.

I have had GSA on an MB and now a Supra. No one has ever touched my Supra plates. I think one time a kid tried to use my GSA plates, but I told them not to.

Really hasn’t been much of an issue for us in 350 hours. Certainly not a reason to shy away from tabs.

Tabs aren’t gonna get much bigger from here. They’re working incredibly as is.


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[dakota4ce]

I would say though—if you break a surf plate by stepping on it you should be denied. Not sure how else you could break one in that manner.


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[jmvotto]

Who the hell surfs a boat right out of the box these days anyway !!!!

[dakota4ce]

Who the hell surfs a boat right out of the box these days anyway !!!!

Very true. Unless you have the new B52 or a Centurion—everyone is slamming everything.


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[KnoxMojo]

I agree...tabs and suck gates changed the game

[jmvotto]

Very true. Unless you have the new B52 or a Centurion—everyone is slamming everything.


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Really??? Never surf a mb or and epic , centurions always have a little list to them and the ram fill is cool , but does not work all that well I e gates get stuck etc

Don’t get me wrong the 257ri is a gorgeous boat and wave

[dakota4ce]

Epic is nothing. I don’t think they are even made anymore? MBs are solid and their new 2018 B52 23 is in the top 2%—don’t skip a chance to try one. 2017 and older is still decent but not like the new one.


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[jmvotto]

Heard the 18 mb is the real deal but with gsa and trailer your tipping scales over100k

[muehlcj]

Wave Quality only -
Under 100K:
I was surprised to find that out of the box and MSRP 2018 MB B52 doesn't qualify for under 100k unless you are saying with only the 3K ballast, no wake plate, no MB Switch Surf, and no trailer (not that you need a trailer to surf but....) the wave is still killer then you are OK. I built one with zero extras just the adds that would affect wave quality (MB Switch, Cav plate, added ballast) and of course a trailer because the other manufactures pricing include a trailer. $106,587.00. That’s no extra colors, no heater, no stereo etc….

I think a lot of folks would agree the t23 wave a top contender. I’ve spent very little time on a MB and zero time on a B52 and quite of bit of time on a t23 so to be fair I thought I would reach out to some pro level surfers that spent this last summer with a B52. This was their response “only the ’12-’14 have a good hull. Don’t get a 15 -17 it’s awful. I heard ’18 went back to the better hull but haven’t had a chance to ride one” The t23 wave is legit. With hard tanks and PnP you are looking at about 3k in ballast and then they advertise the wedge as another 1500. 18’ has auto wedge so that adds a level of adjustability that it was lacking and it’s under 100k with a trailer. If the MB wave is really that much better than the t23 (and I’m not saying that it isn’t I don’t have enough personal experience with one) then it must me better than your current SE.

Over 100K:
I agree that the larger Centurion Ri 237 and 257 are great waves out of the box. It’s definitely a plus that you don’t’ have to add any ballast. The problem is you are already at max potential. The rest of the folks only get better and pass the Centurions as you add weight.

I’ve talked to a bunch of top level riders that have been behind the new x-star in the last few weeks and they are saying factory wave is better than a slammed g boat. Very interested to hear more feedback this spring.

[dakota4ce]

Before I comment: how does a T23 wave differ from a 2017 23LSV? I understood the 2 hulls to be basically similar.

You can PURCHASE a B52 23 for under 100 with all the options—I think mid-low 90s? To me, we are talking purchase, not MSRP. And in that case, I purchased a new 2016 SE in July for under 100K, so that technically qualifies [emoji6].

The 2018 B52 wave is dead on with the SE I would suspect. Using the transitive property. But i have not had the opportunity to ride. But it trumps the F24 which I owned (by unanimous reports), which was a step beneath my SE. LOL this is kind of funny actually 🤣—wave speculation.


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[dakota4ce]

Wave Quality only -
Under 100K:
I was surprised to find that out of the box and MSRP 2018 MB B52 doesn't qualify for under 100k unless you are saying with only the 3K ballast, no wake plate, no MB Switch Surf, and no trailer (not that you need a trailer to surf but....) the wave is still killer then you are OK. I built one with zero extras just the adds that would affect wave quality (MB Switch, Cav plate, added ballast) and of course a trailer because the other manufactures pricing include a trailer. $106,587.00. That’s no extra colors, no heater, no stereo etc….

I think a lot of folks would agree the t23 wave a top contender. I’ve spent very little time on a MB and zero time on a B52 and quite of bit of time on a t23 so to be fair I thought I would reach out to some pro level surfers that spent this last summer with a B52. This was their response “only the ’12-’14 have a good hull. Don’t get a 15 -17 it’s awful. I heard ’18 went back to the better hull but haven’t had a chance to ride one” The t23 wave is legit. With hard tanks and PnP you are looking at about 3k in ballast and then they advertise the wedge as another 1500. 18’ has auto wedge so that adds a level of adjustability that it was lacking and it’s under 100k with a trailer. If the MB wave is really that much better than the t23 (and I’m not saying that it isn’t I don’t have enough personal experience with one) then it must me better than your current SE.

Over 100K:
I agree that the larger Centurion Ri 237 and 257 are great waves out of the box. It’s definitely a plus that you don’t’ have to add any ballast. The problem is you are already at max potential. The rest of the folks only get better and pass the Centurions as you add weight.

I’ve talked to a bunch of top level riders that have been behind the new x-star in the last few weeks and they are saying factory wave is better than a slammed g boat. Very interested to hear more feedback this spring.

I am not sure you can get better than a basically factory ri257 even if you doctor and slam the heck out anything....what boat comes to your mind? An SL? Slamming anything basically would get you up to the 257 level, but past it? Do tell. That thing has almost 6K ballast!


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[DFTR Josh]

I was surprised to find that out of the box and MSRP 2018 MB B52 doesn't qualify for under 100k unless you are saying with only the 3K ballast, no wake plate, no MB Switch Surf, and no trailer (not that you need a trailer to surf but....) the wave is still killer then you are OK. I built one with zero extras just the adds that would affect wave quality (MB Switch, Cav plate, added ballast) and of course a trailer because the other manufactures pricing include a trailer. $106,587.00
I sure hope a LOT has changed since owning an MB in 2012/2013 to reach the $100k mark. I was surprised when they hit 80's since I was low 60's when I got mine. Kind of a luxury price for not a luxury boat IMO.

[dakota4ce]

Isn’t Axis over 100k now too with a power wedge on an A24? Moomba is the only one that stays well below.

They’re much nicer than ‘12, but value is different to different folks. But the boats are pretty darned nice.


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[jmvotto]

so I guess my new 17 23 lsv qualifies as well then in the under category :)

yes t23 is similar , more electronics and fit n finish , love the wave axis 24 is over 100

[dakota4ce]

Needed to ask. I have surfed a ton on 2017 23LSV but not a T23.


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[jmvotto]

full disclosure I was between a 17 SE and 17 LSV , but the deal and dealer locations got me into the lsv, although I have loved my SC products over the past 10 years and really wanted to be in the SE ...

[dakota4ce]

That makes sense. That’s a big factor. Actually precisely why I did not get a new MB and got the SE! I was really really into the 2018 B52..


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[dakota4ce]

But the SE has been damn awesome.


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[muehlcj]

I am not sure you can get better than a basically factory ri257 even if you doctor and slam the heck out anything....what boat comes to your mind? An SL? Slamming anything basically would get you up to the 257 level, but past it? Do tell. That thing has almost 6K ballast!


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We rode the ri257 factory and a Malibu m235 and a 24mxz basically back to back for a weekend. The two Malibu's had more then factory weight and their waves blew the factory ri257 out of the water. We also rode stock g23 & g25 and they were not on par with the stock ri257

[dakota4ce]

Sweet! They must be really good. People have raved about the ri257 as being next level stuff in my casual observations.


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[jmvotto]

Not sure we have helped the OP with his original Question

Thread derail :o

[dakota4ce]

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] this is ALL good information.


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[SurferCole]

Tige Z3 with taps 3. Done!


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[dakota4ce]

Tige Z3 with taps 3. Done!


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Find me one for 65K and I might buy it!


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[SurferCole]

Find me one for 65K and I might buy it!


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https://www.germainemarine.com/default.asp?page=xPreOwnedInventoryDetail&id=4289914&p=1&s=Year&d=D&t=preowned&fr=xPreOwnedInventory

[sivs1]

Find me one for 65K and I might buy it!


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I know of a 2016 Z3 for 68k

[dakota4ce]

https://www.germainemarine.com/default.asp?page=xPreOwnedInventoryDetail&id=4289914&p=1&s=Year&d=D&t=preowned&fr=xPreOwnedInventory

That’s missing TAPS3....and the colors are a bit much? But a TAPS3 Z3 would be a good boat at 65 if the hours were acceptable, I agree!


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[SurferCole]

That’s missing TAPS3....and the colors are a bit much? But a TAPS3 Z3 would be a good boat at 65 if the hours were acceptable, I agree!


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Pretty sure they added taps 3 just not on the site.


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[sivs1]

Pretty sure they added taps 3 just not on the site.


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So Z3 with Taps3 being brought back up, new 2018 model over 100k? Used in the upper 60's Does the Z3 surpass other options discussed previously as being "THE Boat"?

[sandm]

z3 at 65k lightly used and not the hideous color combo listed above and I'd be all over that as a surf boat.

[SurferCole]

If you guys want an awesome surf boat, Germaine has a really nice ASR that has been converted into an rzx with taps 3. I’m not going to share price but it’s quite it but less then what they have it posted at.


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[Broke Pilot]

The Z3 was on my list. Linz loved the interior. Having Texas Tige right down the street from the house was a major selling point, and being Texas built!
At the end of the day, Supra/SC just won out. Fit/finish, price (the big one), not having all the gimmicky electronic toys (in my eyes). I just freakin love my SA. It's perfect, for me.
I just felt like the Z3 priced itself out of its own market. It doesn't have any business being around 100k compared to some other Tige models.

[dakota4ce]

Agree, they’re (Z3) expensive for what you get IMHO.

Also love my Supra. Damn good boat.


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[NoleAlum]

Tige came out this year with R23 which is Z3 hull with less diamond stitching. Dealer here in GA is selling them with upgraded Wesound Rev10's, Taps3 etc for $79k..


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[Broke Pilot]

I looked into that also since the price isn't outrageous. My issue was the lack of gauges. But it did get the power fold tower which threw me... I would have gladly traded a power tower for some more instrumentation.

[jmvotto]

It’s there. Just scroll down. Taps 3 system upgrade
Colors are tough

[mgswake]

Anybody tested the wakeboard wake on any of these boats?

[sandm]

wakeboard wake

what's this wakeboard wake you speak of?? :)

[DFTR Josh]

Anybody tested the wakeboard wake on any of these boats?
My MAX will be wake tested and dialed in the spring. Binding riders are rare, LOL.

[MJHSupra]

Ouch. Those boat colors and graphics look like crap.


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